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K8

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Do morals only exist in a religious context?

Or are they man-made through the influences of common-sense, empathy and compassion?


 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:48 AM on July 25, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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I'm sure you'll find the answer split down the middle.  Atheists will say, since their is no God, man OBVIOUSLY came to the idea of morals on his own (after all, by this reasoning, religion itself is man-made).  People who know God is real will say God made man in his own image and gave him a conscience (although many people have managed to sear theirs) so morals are OBVIOUSLY God-made.  Religion isn't a "context" for believers.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 9:37 PM on July 25, 2006 | IP
RoyLennigan

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Quote from EMyers at 4:37 PM on July 25, 2006 :
I'm sure you'll find the answer split down the middle.  Atheists will say, since their is no God, man OBVIOUSLY came to the idea of morals on his own (after all, by this reasoning, religion itself is man-made).  People who know God is real will say God made man in his own image and gave him a conscience (although many people have managed to sear theirs) so morals are OBVIOUSLY God-made.  Religion isn't a "context" for believers.


whether god exists or not, morals are always circumstantial and at the whim of our personal experiences and preferences.

I don't see how this can conflict with either atheist or theist beliefs.
 


Posts: 152 | Posted: 04:34 AM on September 7, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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morals are always circumstantial and at the whim of our personal experiences and preferences

You can only say this if you believe morals are personal beleifs and that their are no absolute morals.  If you hold morality to be "in the eye of the beholder" then you are correct.  Most people tend to believe that there are some things that are morally right and wrong regardless of your "personal beliefs".  Theists believe that morals are God made and regardless of what we "personally believe" there is an absolute moral standard by which we can all be judged.  Again, it completely depends on your view of the term "morality".


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 5:57 PM on September 7, 2006 | IP
RoyLennigan

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Quote from EMyers at 12:57 PM on September 7, 2006 :
Again, it completely depends on your view of the term "morality".


Right, which would make this statement correct

Morals are always circumstantial and at the whim of our personal experiences and preferences.

When speaking of human concepts, there is no absolute anything.  The only absolute is to be.  Even if there are absolute morals, everyone would see them in their own ways, just as we see reality in our own ways.
 


Posts: 152 | Posted: 01:14 AM on September 8, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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To which the Christian would reply that morals are NOT a human concept.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 07:34 AM on September 8, 2006 | IP
RoyLennigan

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Quote from EMyers at 02:34 AM on September 8, 2006 :
To which the Christian would reply that morals are NOT a human concept.


There might be morals more absolute, or made by a higher being, but these are not our moral because of our usage of them.

In other words, we define our own usage of morals whether we like it or not, simply because we use those ideas and we think of them.

God's morals are based in the world around us.  They are not written out, they are not in any language but the language of the universe--which is the universe.  Each of us looks around and see the world differently based on our own unique personalities.  We look at the world and we might see God's morality, but once we see it, it is interpreted by our minds and so it becomes our own morality--completely subjective and different, even if slightly, from person to person.

But that does not mean that absolute morality does not exist.  It just means that we are unable to see it as humans because of how our minds work.

From what I've experienced, absolute morality must be a process of ultimate comparison and circumstantial inspection.  It can only be achieved by a being who knows all.  And the only being who knows all is the being that is all.

(Edited by RoyLennigan 9/8/2006 at 1:34 PM).
 


Posts: 152 | Posted: 1:31 PM on September 8, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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If there is no absolute moral standard, then there is no moral standard.  Each of us can make "moral" what we choose.  By your definition, morality is a mirage.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 5:55 PM on September 8, 2006 | IP
RoyLennigan

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Quote from EMyers at 12:55 PM on September 8, 2006 :
If there is no absolute moral standard, then there is no moral standard.  Each of us can make "moral" what we choose.  By your definition, morality is a mirage.



no, its not a mirage--obviously it isnt because if there is one thing that we can agree on about morality, its that the concept exists.

But we're talking of absolute morals, which are impossible for us to observe or think of, let alone understand.  therefore, any morality that we think of is subjective--its only right in the logic of our individual minds.  Each of us sees different details in the same circumstance that actually happens.  But none of us see all the details.  So we are each left with a slightly obscured view of the situation, which we base our morals on.

Gods morality is based on all the details, which we can never know as humans.
 


Posts: 152 | Posted: 03:55 AM on September 9, 2006 | IP
Unriggable

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Morals are taught. And man is not the only animal to have morals. Chimpanzees, even ants have morals. Morals are passed from generation to generation, and usually the source of that is a book of some sort.


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"Without Judgment"
 


Posts: 51 | Posted: 5:24 PM on May 7, 2007 | IP
Dracmorair

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And most any issue here is with the source.  Choose to believe thus negating your choices or....  

"THE" Alternative have a good idea of what gods true meaning is.

I put up futher details to this effect via this link if you want to debate it there.
http://www.youdebate.com/cgi-bin/scarecrow/topic.cgi?forum=13&topic=3652  


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Creed: What must be done will be done, what's done is done. Learn from the past and live for today.
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 7:48 PM on July 23, 2007 | IP
Elijah

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The Eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20 is the  Moral law for the Universe. Compare the last two verses of Eccl. for us.

Even non/Christians hold to some of the ten commandments. It is interesting to note for some, that there are two tables & divisions for both Caesar & the Virgin church. Rom. 13 finds Caesar using the last six of the ten only. Nothing from the worship's first four.


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Elijah
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 7:48 PM on September 6, 2007 | IP
    
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