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SHOULD PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION BE OUTLAWED ?

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/ABORTIONPARTIAL.HTM


(Edited by admin 4/30/2002 at 4:27 PM.)
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 7:39 PM on April 29, 2002 | IP
maria

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There are plenty of people out there that would be willing to anything to adopt children.  There is no excuse for partial birth abortion.  If you don't want the child, give it up for adoption.  If you don't like being pregnant, don't have unprotected sex.


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Posts: 12 | Posted: 04:54 AM on June 13, 2002 | IP
maria

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If the reason a woman is having an abortion is because it might prevent her from having more children in the future what makes on think that this problem isn't going to come up in the second pregnancy.


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Posts: 12 | Posted: 5:23 PM on June 13, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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no.  If the babies grown even a little, abortion is up.  You had your chance, now just give it up for adoption.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:02 PM on September 24, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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yeh adoptian is the best way out of killing, but i still think abortion is not evil
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 9:06 PM on September 24, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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I do not think abortion is evil either, but i do think that adoption is better.  Abortion leads to an increase in deppresion and guilt, thus the mother gets sad, even leading to suicide sometimes.  Adoption, however, gives the mother a chance to still see her baby every once in a while.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 08:38 AM on September 25, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Written by Dr. David Brewer of Glen Ellyn Illinos"

"One night a lady delivered and I was called to come and see her because she was 'uncontrollable'. I went into the room, and she was going to pieces; she was having a nervous breakdown, screaming and thrasing.  The other patients were upset because this lady was screaming.  I walked in, and here was this little saline abortion baby kicking.  It had been born alive, and was kicking and moving for a little while before it finally died of those terrible burns, because the salt solution gets into the lungs and burns the lungs too.  I'll tell you one thing about D&E.  You never have to worry about a baby's being born alive.  I won't describe D&E, other than to say that, as a doctor, you are sitting there tearing, and I mean tearing- you need a lot of strength to do it- arms and legs off babies and putting them in a stack on top of the table."


...Tell me abortion is not evil...


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 11:24 PM on October 8, 2002 | IP
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I agree with you Sakata, but once again it only appeals to people's shallow little sentimental feelings.  Why doesn't the story about the child in the first trimester chemically aborted arouse such sniffles and "awwwws" as the soon-to-be newborn story?  Thats what I want to know....The fact is, except for the fact that the baby is larger and that the pain is horrendous, you're killing the same thing.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 3:45 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Abortion is not evil. But partial abortion is... Unexpressably evil by words. I believe 1 week within pregnancy and thats all you get. Otherwise, adoption. Happy?

Its the difference between being scared for life because you saw your baby dying and having his limbs ripped apart, and even before that seing him die because of the bastard doctor not doing a good enough job to kill the baby. Its hard seing that. I have seen thesse kind of things. Besides the fact that my mom is a nurse, i have a friend named Morgan. Let me tell you her story...(This true story is disturbing. Youve bee warned)

Morgan is a 13 year old who is not fictional. She does drugs and drinks because her parents do the same. In 7th grade, she decided to go to a party. In the party, there were more than mid skoolers. High skoolers, too. she decided to get high and drunk.
The next morning, she awoke to a nauseating feeling. Vommit, vommit, barf barf. Then, this process repaeated, and she didnt have her period. She knew that she was pregnant.
She began to get chubbier, and made fun of. Only me and a few of her other really close friends knew. I was one of the few who stayed loyal. She told me and 2 others that she was going to get an abortion.
"You guys, i cant take this **** anymore. Everyday i get up and blow chunks, and my stomach hurts more every day. Im going to get this damn thing out of my system." And it was decided.
The very next day was the day she was to get a pill abortion. She then called me up, and god forbid i remember these words: "So, i want you to come with me. I am scared to hell, and i want you and maybe Venessa there. Please come, i need you two..." So i offed with my bike. a whole hour of riding. Finally i arrived. She was waiting, and smiled when i entered. "Thanx." I smiled. "Miss ***?" The doctor called. "Thats me... Lets go." She said to me. I walked in. "Okay, just eat these and youll be up and running in no time!" She gulped the pills and swallowed some water. We left. I mounted my bike. "Thank god its over..." she said to me.
A few hours pass, cant remember how many. Ring ring. I pick up my phone. "Oh my god,m please help... me..." She said. I hung up and ran out the door to her house. She wasnt there. I followed some tracks of blood to her. "I'm...having the baby..." She said, crying. I got her on my bike and rode as fast as i could to the hostipal. We arrived, and my seat was bloody to hell. She was rushed in.
When she came out, she help a baby in her hands. Tears were running down her cheeks. "It came out..." She showed me. The baby was a pasty yellow color with blood streaks that were dried all over its body. The baby's face was as if it had acid poured all over it; the skin and facial features were melted and ran lower than normal in a disgusting way. I began to cry. "I didn't know..." she said. She then hugged me.

Yes. This is a real story, and i was 12 back then. That was an effect of partial abortion. She got the baby aborted a few hours prior to his birth. She didnt know. She was 13 freaking years old. Now, anyone, please, anyone, say that partial abortion is good.

(Edited by Exxoss 11/1/2002 at 4:42 PM).


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:36 AM on October 31, 2002 | IP
janus13x

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exxoss, your story is very powerful.  It is tricky business attempting to weigh evil.  Yes, partial birth abortions are gruesome, but is it not what the early fetus becomes? When considering the legality of such a controversial topic, i think objectivity is paramount.
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 10:35 AM on November 7, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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However, the mother wont go through seeing a disfigured dead baby, just herself losing weight.  How can you say that it is no different?  Morgan is now a very depressed person, having seen that horrible baby...  And others, whom have gotten an abortion the right way MAY have post-abortion deppression, but at least they know their doing the right thing for everyone besides the baby.  Its like this;  Choose between killing a whole family or just one person.  But thats horribly off topic.

The thing is, partial abortion birth is psychotically evil, and nothing, NOTHING i say, can ever change that, not now, not then,  not EVER.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:01 PM on November 8, 2002 | IP
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Quote from Sakata at 11:24 PM on October 8, 2002 :
Written by Dr. David Brewer of Glen Ellyn Illinos"

"One night a lady delivered and I was called to come and see her because she was 'uncontrollable'. I went into the room, and she was going to pieces; she was having a nervous breakdown, screaming and thrasing. The other patients were upset because this lady was screaming. I walked in, and here was this little saline abortion baby kicking. It had been born alive, and was kicking and moving for a little while before it finally died of those terrible burns, because the salt solution gets into the lungs and burns the lungs too. I'll tell you one thing about D&E. You never have to worry about a baby's being born alive. I won't describe D&E, other than to say that, as a doctor, you are sitting there tearing, and I mean tearing- you need a lot of strength to do it- arms and legs off babies and putting them in a stack on top of the table."


...Tell me abortion is not evil...
Exosses do you smoke crack? Abortion is wrong either way stupid get a life retard!!!!
BURN IN HELL





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None of you can anger me now, I'm in love and happy as a clam!
 


Posts: 34 | Posted: 4:48 PM on November 16, 2002 | IP
FreedomFighter13

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Quote from janus13x at 10:35 AM on November 7, 2002 :
exxoss, your story is very powerful. It is tricky business attempting to weigh evil. Yes, partial birth abortions are gruesome, but is it not what the early fetus becomes? When considering the legality of such a controversial topic, i think objectivity is paramount.
Exosses whats the diffrence between partial abortin and abortion either way you kill a baby. You are the evil one. Its Gods creation!!!





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Posts: 34 | Posted: 4:51 PM on November 16, 2002 | IP
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Freedom Fighter....you're the reason people hate us.  You're about as far from the Jesus of the gospels as anyone can be.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 7:16 PM on November 17, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Freedom, God gave us free will accodringly; let us not remember that.  If im evil, then you are too--your sinning by acting as a god and condeming me.  Naughty naughty, you sinner.

Thistown, you make a good point - but not many hate christians, i just like finding bible contradictions.

Abortion - Partial birth abortion is wrong.  Why dont we just up and off with everyones head if we allow the late slaughter of babies...  


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:52 PM on November 26, 2002 | IP
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I'm 20 yrs. old and a mother, my sister is 17 and recieved the RU-486 pill without her permission. She was 15 at the time and was told it was a sedative. Everyone says this can't happen, especially on www.ivillage.com do a search and go to the abortion debate room. Their is an partial birth abortion petition going around and we need 200,000 signatures, abortion is wrong no matter how you look at it. And their is also a Citizens Petition linking against the RU-486 linking it to the deaths of 2 women, and 20 women hemorraging. Please email me and I'll send you a link so you can sign the petition. My sister has PID wich occured 2 wks after the abortion pill was given to her, she never went back for the second pill and since than she 's had all kinds of problems. My email is curlycue_124@yahoo.com
I believe God forgives everyone and above all we should never wish anyone to burn in hell. Hell is a horrible place and the bible clearly states we are alone. I encourage everyone to visit www.ivillage.com and go to the abortion debate and spread the knowledge that abortion does hurt women.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:03 PM on November 26, 2002 | IP
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This is a page that I wrote doing a senior project.  I hope u guys like it...

Since the 1973 court decision of Roe vs. Wade there have been over 40 million abortions in the United Sates alone. There have many different ways to abort a fetus, but a new controversial way to abort a fetus known as “Partial Birth Abortion” has caused a polarizing affect on the United States. Many disagree with this method of abortion, because most of these abortions happen within five to seven months in pregnancy. There are many groups whose main purpose is to stop this horrible act. Many groups fight for the “right to choose” and feel that its a constitutional right to have the right to choose abortion as a method. Regardless of what you believe in Partial Birth Abortion has polarized the United States.

Abortion is the ending of pregnancy before birth and is morally wrong. An

abortion results in the death of an embryo or a fetus. Abortion destroys the lives of helpless, innocent children and illegal in many countries. By aborting these unborn infants, humans are hurting themselves. They are not allowing themselves to meet these new identities and unique personalities. Abortion is very simply wrong. Everyone is raised knowing the difference between right and wrong. Murder is wrong, so why is not abortion? People argue that it is not murder if the child is unborn. Abortion is murder since the fetus being destroyed is living, breathing and moving. Why is it that if an infant is destroyed a month before the birth, there is no problem, but if killed a month after birth, this is inhumane murder? And why is it when someone murders a pregnant woman is charged with the murder of two people instead of just one?
It is morally and strategically foolish, because we lose the middle when we talk

Gomez 2

about reproductive rights without reference to a larger moral and spiritual dimension, and we are unwilling to use language like transgression and redemption, or right and wrong.
-Wolf p54
The main purpose abortions are immoral is how they are so viciously done. Everyday, innocent, harmless fetuses that could soon be laughing children are being brutally destroyed. One form of abortion is to cut the fetus into pieces with serrated forceps before being removed, piece by piece from the uterus by suction with a vacuum aspirator. Another form consists of bringing the fetus feet first into the birth canal, puncturing its skull with a sharp instrument and sucking out the brain tissue. The body

parts, such as the head, are given letters, rather than refer to the parts as what they are. In my opinion this is for the doctors who cannot face the reality of what they are doing. The remains of the fetus or embryo, as the case may be, are put into everyday, plastic buckets and then sent to a dumpster where these precious bones and limbs are disposed. However, how and when an abortion takes place are matters of little importance to pro- abortionists and other defenders. Even former abortion practitioners from varying backgrounds and religions have a new view on abortion. These changes of heart were caused by psychological, religious and scientific reasons. One doctor, Dr. Bernard Nathanson, performed 60,000 abortions and supervised 10,000, before scientific evidence and the use of an ultrasound, convinced him he was promoting and participating what he now calls “the most atrocious holocaust in the history of the United States.” Other doctors refuse to perform legal abortions, saying they should save lives rather than

destroy them.
Many argue is it the women’s or the fetus’ rights and values that are being trampled on? “Pro-choice movements sometimes fall back on an abortion rhetoric that seems to dehumanize and trivialize the death of a fetus as a way to humanize and make important the reproductive rights of women.” (Wolf p54) “Women can treat an unwanted fetus as a violation of her civil rights and is therefore justified tin using force to expel it” (McMillan pA12) The decision is not up to the mother because she is not God. Only God, the ultimate creator has the right to choose who may live and who shall die. Humans do not have the right or the power to control the quality of life and to avoid

suffering. “The issue of abortion is not just life, but how life is created and the extent to which human intention and control the process, both before and after birth. All humans inventions and interventions may give us a world to regret.” (Clark p3) With abortion, we humans give ourselves dominion over a large part of God’s plans and our destiny.
Abortion becomes especially evil when the bond between mother and child is broken and it is being used as an alternative birth control when humans cannot control their irresponsible sexual hungers. If beings are responsible enough to be sexually active, they should also be responsible enough to accept consequences, and if that means becoming pregnant and creating a life, then that life should have the opportunity to live. There should be a bond or relationship between a mother and child, whether born or unborn.
Mothers and her children form a bond unlike any other felling of love; when a

child is aborted, before given the right to grow in the bond, does the mother feel the connection with her child or is it just uterine material. Abortion is never about just abortion. It is about questions like whether the society at large, or individual pieces of it, regards the fact of women’s fertility as burden or gift, and how they treat it, and what are the incentives ad disincentives they provide? How the rearing of children is regarded benefit or burden, or sometimes a balance of those, and who is responsible for that? And then one of the deepest things, at the core of what abortion is about, is what is our understanding of freedom? Is freedom something like will: the ability to choose something in anyway you choose, freedom without regard to truth, to what some would

call natural law? Freedom without regard to the common good?”
-Alvare p54
Many women do feel this bond and also feel a great loss and emptiness in their lives. Several women have confided in one author, Naomi Wolf. They have come to her in grief. One woman shared that each year she lights a candle for the fetus that she aborted, and that she feels like there is no room within the organized reproductive rights institutions or within mainstream feminism to articulate that grief and make it meaningful.
“All humans have the same right to live compared to other humans. Whether rich, poor, majority or minority this being deserves the same chance we were all given.” (Clark p3) The Vatican teaches that all humans have a right to life, from the moment of conception until the natural ordained moment of death. According to the Catholic


church, a person is living when as young as an embryo, which refers to an organism at its early stage of development, through the fetus stage, which is from the end of the eighth week until birth and when considered a baby, until the last second of life before death. It is also selfish to abort an unborn child. This aborted child could have been destined to create world peace, make the invention of the century, find a cure foe AIDS or other diseases or maybe have children of his or her own and continue our human race.
Pro-choice defenders feel that the Roman Catholic Church’s opinion leaves no room for human reason as it instead tries to unrealistically legislate an uncompromising pro-life policy. There is no excuse for having an abortion. Pro-choice followers

recommend abortion if the child is a result of rape, a painful reminder, may be born defected or the female is too young and not ready to raise a child of her own and be a parent. If these are the cases, adoption agencies are found nationwide and willingly accept unwanted children giving them the opportunity to live with another family.
There are many different viewpoints on abortion in the United States of America. Where most Americans do not feel that abortion is necessarily ‘good,’ they do believe it is a “right.” Others have similar opinions. They embrace contradictory opinions and consider abortion a form of murder and yet still feel it should be legal for the truly desperate. However, most Americans think abortions are morally troubling. A recent study by George Hunt shows that neither age nor gender appears to have any effect on people’s current views on abortions.
Today, teenagers are getting mixed messages from parents, peers, and media.

This is the reason for the increased birth rate. Abortion is being used as a method of birth control in this case which shows in a study in The Lancet magazine that 24.1% of teenagers aged seventeen through nineteen have undergone induced abortion.
As the world grows with the new times we must look at these such important issues that will dramatically effect us soon enough in the future. Sixty million abortions are done yearly, and that number only increases as more and more countries legalize this brutal destroying of innocent children who could be successful world leaders.
“What does it mean to choose life? Who chooses life? Where should the focus be on choosing life?” (Wilson p54) To choose life not only means to speak out against

unnecessary death of humans but also to take care of one’s self, support the good mannerisms of all and to see good in all. The only being who has a say of life is God Almighty himself. However, we all have the opportunity and power to choose to live. The focus on choosing life should be on being happy. A complete life is a fulfilling and very satisfying life. It is up to us only to decide and teach others of these brutal acts done daily out of the laziness, irresponsibility, and ignorance of humans in attempt to escape from real life. Human life can not run forever and eventually, they will learn that destroying the innocent is wrong. “Pro- life movement will win, because when you hold up a picture of a six month old fetus being stabbed in the neck and all you say is ’choice, choice, choice’ you are going to loose.” (Wolf p54)


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:01 PM on December 2, 2002 | IP
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Hello to all.
I definately think that partial-birth abortions should be BANNED.  I've seen the pictures, heard the stories, and I have to wonder why and how this ever could have become legal.  It's a heart-wrenching practice, killing a child in this way.  It's been proven that babies who were born premature (as early as 22-24 wks) CAN feel pain, as the flinch and flail at the pokes and prods of needles and the such.  Could you imagine the pain that child must feel...it breaks my heart.  Not to say that abortions earlier on in pregnancy are any more acceptable.  Have you guys seen the movie "the Silent Scream"?  Type it in on a search engine and you'll find it online...it shows an 11 week old baby "screaming" silently as it is being aborted.  It knew it was in danger.  Or should I say, SHE knew.

It boggles my mind how the pro-abortionists keep saying "it's a woman's right to choose."  That's right ~ she chose to have SEX...if she DIDN'T choose to have sex, if this was a case of rape or incest or life-threatening to the mother, then at least there would be a justifiable REASON for the mother wanting to abort.  But for a woman who "accidentally" got pregnant, shouldn't she now face the consequences for her irresponsibility?  I don't think it's right to have an abortion if YOU were the one who was irresponsible and you are doing it just for your "inconvienience."  But no, she can choose to kill a baby if, when, and how she wants to while it is growing within her womb sickens me to death.  I have a wonderful little boy, and another on the way, and I just can't imagine ever having an abortion.

This is a barbaric procedure, as are all of the other abortion methods.  When will people stop trying to be God and open up their eyes, minds, and souls to the truth???

God Bless you all!

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:22 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
Sol

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I know... you're exactly right.  This is without a doubt the worst thing ever to happen in American history.
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 08:13 AM on January 10, 2005 | IP
Yod Heh Vav Heh

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PBAs are senseless, really, since the baby quite clearly is interactive, and if you're inducing labour in the first place and the baby is able to survive, it should be saved and adopted.

A stance on aboriton doesn't have to be all one way or the other, my position would be to only abort before the foetus has developed a working, responsive neural system and brain comparable to that which it would have outside the womb, if the foetus doesn't have those things, later on I would still advise against it except for medical reasons. Medical reasons for abortion would be essentially self-defence, and therefore permissable.

PBAS aren't the worst thing to ever happen though.


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Vengeance is mine.
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 4:29 PM on January 12, 2005 | IP
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Everyone always repeats that it is the womans choice to have sex.

Many MANY teenage girls who get pregnant do not get the sufficient education needed to fully understand birth control. Their parents don't teach them and many school systems teach abortion only (which the bush administration would like to see become  national) giving them no education on how to avoid STD's and pregnancy other than to not have sex

Which would be ideal but abstinence only is not a deterent for teen sex. Let us recognize that and not argue that the kids were stupid.

So if they have sex not knowing all the facts, how can you expect them to ruin their lives for something that is not their fault.
 


Posts: 32 | Posted: 3:59 PM on January 20, 2005 | IP
K8

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I'm pro-choice, but i do believe Partial Birth Abortion is terrible. I think it's the fact that this procedure is so primitive in nature, and that the child is more likely to feel pain.

I actually could not believe that, with such advanced technology these days, there is still a procedure such as this in existence.

I know this will be controversial, but perhaps some funding should go towards research in finding far kinder ways of aborting unborn babies...that sounds terrible, but it's better than having such horrible procedures such as PBA.

Also, i really think that the law should set clear limits as to when a baby can be aborted, and when it is justified. Any thoughts?
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 05:30 AM on April 16, 2005 | IP
    
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