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I think abortion should be illegal b/c you take away that  babies life away and in the constitution it states, " We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal that they are endowled by their Creator with certain enabliable rights, that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness." By letting women get abortions you are taking the fetus' rights away to life and the pursuite of happiness, a fetus is a living baby, if it is a living baby why would you kill it and take away its basic human rights?!?!
                                          - Laura Olson
                                          Russellville, AR
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:07 PM on October 15, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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"Children are not humans...Yet.  Until they are 18, the have no rights.  None at all.  They are basically just our property to do with as we wish." -Laura McKrocken, surgen at Fox med center

The problem is, children have no rights, and a baby is less than a child.  But besides that, the baby is part of the mother; It is the mother's fetus, the mothers stomach.  It is a part of her (or at least within the first trimester, or in my opinion, in first week)  Thus, the mother should be able to kill part of herself.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:42 AM on October 31, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Congratulations, I've heard a lot of stupid stuff today, but you take the blue ribbon, have a cookie.  Why do you think parents are prosecuted for child abuse, statutory rape, ect?  No they can't buy porn or vote, most of their rights fall in the right of protection, and when you abort a child what right are you violating?  The same right that is broken when a newborn is suffocated and thrown into a dumpster.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 1:34 PM on October 31, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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But the baby is part of the mother; not yet an actual child.  Therefore, it is the mothers choice to destroy part of herself, not the babies or anyone elses.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:22 PM on November 1, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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It is connected to her, but it isnt her, it has its own finger prints, its own DNA, its own personality, and most of all its own soul, it is very much its own person from the very moment of conception.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 11:49 PM on November 1, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Actually, the baby has nothing; It is merely a blob until after the first trimester.  Only then are you allowed to abort, and only then is it still truly a part of the mother.  It is a blob of the mothers;  She has given part of herself to form a baby without her own choice, therefore it is part of her while she can abort.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 9:28 PM on November 2, 2002 | IP
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You can't say it's a blob until the end of the 1st trimester.  You're saying that one day it's a blob, then the next a human being with a personality and rights.  But then people willl nitpick on the meaning of "day", so we must decide the exact minute that this miraculous, and according to you, instantaneous transformation from "blob" as you so eloquently put it into a person like yourself.  When is the exact time, the exaact second the DNA is complete?  the second the heart starts beating?  Face it, you have no idea...you know nothing , absolutely nothing, no one really does, so who exactly are we to make such a decision?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:54 PM on November 3, 2002 | IP
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ameoba are blobs, but they are alive.  from the moment of conception, the fetus begins to grow.  growth is a pretty good sign to me that something is alive, especially when it becomes a living, breathing human shortly after it is conceived


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 11:05 PM on November 3, 2002 | IP
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most women dont even know that they are preganant for like two weeks. So i think if abortion is legal then it should be within the first week,,that way many women wont be able to abort bc they didnt even know in time to do so


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:52 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
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*sigh* but wat i mean i that ..ok for half a week, after reproduction, the baby is an egg.  Then, a ahalf a week after, a week of 'bigger egg' starts.  Then, the baby is developing to develope for a week.  Thats 2 and a half weeks to find out your pregnant.  AND, after that developing of developing week, you have 1 week to get an abortion.  That is what i mean.  The first week in which the baby is actually truly developping.  3 and a half weeks for someone to find out their pregnant.  Thats a hole month post-sex.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 09:08 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
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Quote from thistownwilleatu at 10:54 PM on November 3, 2002 :
You can't say it's a blob until the end of the 1st trimester.  You're saying that one day it's a blob, then the next a human being with a personality and rights.  But then people willl nitpick on the meaning of "day", so we must decide the exact minute that this miraculous, and according to you, instantaneous transformation from "blob" as you so eloquently put it into a person like yourself.  When is the exact time, the exaact second the DNA is complete?  the second the heart starts beating?  Face it, you have no idea...you know nothing , absolutely nothing, no one really does, so who exactly are we to make such a decision?
Listen here Exosses you are a heartless piece of crap that should die. I hope that you get in a car reck.  You need to know the meaning of human stupid. Because you are not one you are Satan.!!!! BURN IN HELL





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None of you can anger me now, I'm in love and happy as a clam!
 


Posts: 34 | Posted: 4:46 PM on November 16, 2002 | IP
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Wow...thank you freedom fighter...In the name of the man who never judged another, the man of compassion, love, peace, and acceptance....BURN IN HELL EXXOSS!!!  




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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:37 PM on November 16, 2002 | IP
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YOU BIASED ATEHIEST/WICCAN/WHATEVER!!!  How was that?  Did I sound mad?  Did the caps lock enhance my madness?  

The fact of the matter is that I am a christian, therefore I base a lot of my beliefs in God.  You claim to be a wiccan, therefore you base your beliefs in that.  Everyone is biased, atheists, etc.  You seem to believe that you are saying something profound in stating the obvious and expecting it to make a difference.

I think the world revolves around me?  No I think the mother who aborts her child because she needs to ask for morphine is the self-centered one.  

Although many of my beliefs are embodied in Christianity, my views on abortion can be approached in a purely secular manner.  The secular population, more so than the Christian population value life more than anyone else, because they fear death, as opposed to Christians who, for the most part, do not.  

It seems quite obvious from this that the child's life is much more important than the temporary flux in the lifestyle of the mother.  Her physical pain will be over in a few short weeks.  Her emotional pain will take longer, but will be eased.  It's 80 years compared to 9 months.  Which is the obvious choice?  

And Exxoss, I think you missed a key part of my last post....sarcasm.  I was making fun of the hypocrisy of freedom fighter, his judgemental, anti-Jesus views are anything but Christian.  I was criticizing Freedom Fighter, not condeming you to hell.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 7:11 PM on November 17, 2002 | IP
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I think abortion is wrong, you are taking the life away from an innocent creature that will become something so beautiful! There are other options...ADOPTION!!! If you are mature enough to have sex, you should be mature enough to deal with the consiquences.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:09 PM on October 19, 2003 | IP
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[b][center][size=null][color=red]LISTEN!!!! Abortion is WRONG.  why should a woman just be able to decide she doesn't really want a baby after all? SHE ALREADY MADE THE DECISION!!! its over and she has to deal with the consequences.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:45 PM on October 29, 2003 | IP
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LISTEN!!!! Abortion is WRONG.  why should a woman just be able to decide she doesn't really want a baby after all? SHE ALREADY MADE THE DECISION!!! its over and she has to deal with the consequences.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:45 PM on October 29, 2003 | IP
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what about the health of the mother? what is she is unable to carry the baby to term with out serious health issues for her and the baby?  What if she has sickel cell amenia or another disease that will not allow her body to carry a healthy baby to term?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:48 AM on December 3, 2003 | IP
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by preventing abortion with women, that is taking away basic human rights.  a new cell isn't life. life doesn't start until the baby is born. a person should be allowed to do what they want to his/her body. if a mom doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't have to, and nobody should have the authority to tell someone they can't. it's like telling someone they can't get a tattoo, but a more serious/controversial issue.  for all of you women, why would you want your rights taken away? you are like going back to a century or two ago when women were subordinate to men. and plus, if a woman didn't want to get pregant, but did..accidents happen. people should be able to correct an accident. why should the woman be punished and not the man? the man made a "mistake" too! shame on everyone who is anti-womens rights!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:48 PM on January 13, 2004 | IP
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this is absolutely ridiculous. you jesus freaks really get on my last nerve. as a woman who is indeed having an abortion during my 4th week of pregnancy, let me inform the masses of a little something they might be too ignorant to have realized up until this point. the first 2 weeks of a calculated pregnancy, you're not even pregnant. in fact, day 1 begins on the first day of your menstrual cycle. you don't even actually conceive until the end of week 2. During week 3 the egg simply divides itself. at this point it's about 0.05mm (you'd need a microscope to actually see it) it isn't until week 4 that the egg divides in half, one part becoming the placenta, the other part becoming an actual embryo. week 5 is when the heart, spinal cord, and brain start to develop, the heart beating by the end of the 5th week. my entire life i've been pro-life, but now that i'm going through this myself, i see things in much different light. i don't believe in abortion once the baby's heart starts beating. to me, thats the beginning of life. women sometimes become pregnant, and the egg fails to attach itself to the uterine wall and is expelled in the 4th week. so is that abortion? yes. is that wrong? no. its life. its nature. its how your body works. before the 5th week the egg doesnt even have nerves to feel anything at all. so why would abortion be wrong? my abortion is planned for this weekend. i'll be 4 1/2 weeks. the egg is 0.2mm as of yesterday (the size of a pencil point). there's nothing wrong with what i'm doing. AND as a 2nd year pre-med student, i see it as a BLESSING that i have the choice to end this now, instead of a child being born whom i'm not physically, mentally, emotionally, or financially capable of taking care of at this time in my life. bottom line, abortions after week 5 are wrong. as a buddhist and vegetarian, i don't believe in killing. but before week 5 there is no "child" it's simply an egg without the simplest nervous system. it has no feeling. that's all there is to it.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:52 PM on January 19, 2004 | IP
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Interesting...  Sounds like you are trying to justify your actions to yourself by writing that.

Quite frankly, it doesn't matter how big or small the 'blob of cells' is.  It doesn't matter if a heartbeat is present or not.  If conception has occurred, then biological life has begun.  If you don't think that biological life is worth protecting, then abortion is no big deal.  But don't try to convince yourself that you are aborting a non-living, non-human being.

I wish you the very best, whatever you decide to do in this situation.  I hope that you recognize the BLESSING that is growing inside of you right now.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:28 PM on January 22, 2004 | IP
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im not sure on abortion as i have a friend called bob well she aint caled bob but i will call her that as she dnt want any 1 to know about her abortion. so anyway she had sex wen she was 14 and she became prgnant she had an abortion and says its the best thing she did she is now 17 with a gorgess healthy 2 month baby girl she says if she had had the baby wen she was 16 she would have had a pritty rough life so she iz glad she had the abortion. but she does feel guilty in a way that she could have given a baby a nice life wen she didnt. so there u go thats all i have to say about abortion. not much but hey its still summat
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:41 AM on February 5, 2004 | IP
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Wow. Some people just don't have even a basic understanding of biology. They call an unborn child a blob in order to dehumanize it so they can kill it without feeling guilty. Kinda like the same way Hitler dehumanized the Jews by calling them rats.  That fact is that that blob they speak of is actually an individual living human being. And killing another human being is homicide. Plain and simple. Some like to take an arbitrary point in its lifespan and say thats when it becomes life. But the reality is that it was never dead in the first place. It was created by 2 living cells that combined to form a new living individual human being. (zygote) Biology 101.That's why they call it conception. Conception is the beginning by definition.

It is a new person. The definition of person is an "individual human being. "

And it is not "part" of the mother. It has it's own individual genetic code, and occupies its own space. And it's genes define it's species. Homo sapiens or human.There is no part of the definition of "person" that a zygote does not meet.

So killing a zygote is homicide. If the mothers life is in danger by the pregnancy then it becomes an issue of resonable force. She can use resonable force to defend her life. In that case it is justifiable homicide.

If her life is not in danger and she aborts then it is murder. Plain and simple.

Go back to school and take a refresher course on biology all you pro-death religious zealots
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 07:38 AM on February 9, 2004 | IP
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Moral, Imoral, Whatever. That is not the point.
If you don't like abortions don't get them. But realize that this all comes from womens rights. I personally feel that women should not vote, since there is overwhelming evidence that women vote for the candidate they find most sexually attractive. But so what, thats their right isn't it. Women have always commited abortions and always will, just remember there was a time when women had no control over their bodies or their reproductive activity, and it wasn't that long ago. If women are to be truly equal in our society they will have to have to have complete control over thier reproduction. Until all women are handed out 100% effective birth control at the age of 13 then abortion will continue to exist and be a debate.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:45 PM on February 9, 2004 | IP
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Allowing abortion is basically saying here is your birth control.  This allows people to be as promiscuous as they want.  They should deal with the consequences of not using a rubber or birth control.  All of you in favor of abortion i suggest you look up what happens in an abortion procedure.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 6:55 PM on February 10, 2004 | IP
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Please calm yourself (anyone who is reading this) and take a second to think about this situation logically.
I think one aspect that everyone needs to consider when looking at the abortion issue is this: Each worthy argument against abortion is that a "life" is being terminated. Correct?  Where is the line of "life" being drawn? Some people make the argument that life begins at conception (some later).  Regardless of where someone stands on this issue, most will agree that conception creates a "potential" human life. However, if you make this argument to prove that abortion is wrong, shouldn't the same argument be made toward the use of condoms?  Theoretically, let's say that a woman is fertile on day (x).  Let's also say that a man has strong swimmers (sperm), meaning that if they had unprotected sex on day (x), the woman would become pregnant.  However, on that day (x), the man and woman wore a condom, thus preventing the conception.  If you are a pro-lifer and believe that a "life" from the time it is conceived should be protected, then you should also believe that using a condom is "morally wrong" (if morals really exist, considering they are a human construct) because it prevented the conception of that supposed life.  That was the brief version...if you don't understand what I just said...please go to your nearest (non-religious) university or college and enroll. Or...find a philosopher to explain the logic puzzle to you. The biggest problem that this country (the US) is facing today is a lack of quality education--leading to a  lack of people who have decent critical thinking and logic skills.  

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:19 PM on February 10, 2004 | IP
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Ah, the great abortion debate.  Who ever said it would be easy to make the right decisions?  Question....Some say they are pro-choice because of women's rights.  Who the hell gave women the right to KILL a growing life?  To say it is not a life is just ignorance.  It is scientifically PROVEN that life begins at conception.  Don't use it as an argument anymore it has been proven a fact and is no longer of aid to your contestation.  I could pile a couple pictures of aborted babies to show you, but you have all seen it before and you'll see it again.  No, it is not wrong to show these pictures.  It is an appeal to emotion and a lot of the time emotion is the only thing that actually allows us to feel what we truly believe.  Some also say it's ridiculous that we are so passionate about stopping abortion.  Do you wanna know what is ridiculous?  It is 8 or 9 months since a woman has been pregnant.  She delivers the baby until everything BUT the head it out.  (Fingers and arms waving...ready to breathe it's first gasp of fresh air...)  A closed pair of scissors are jammed into the neck of the baby and then opened to make a hole.  A vacuum is stuck in and the babies brains are sucked out.  If this would be done only seconds after the baby is delivered...it would be MURDER.  Make sense?  I think not.
** About one in three American women will have had an abortion by the time she reaches age 45
** 1/3 of all babies are aborted...what if you had 1/3 more friends
**95% of all abortions are purly for convienence.
**6million jews killed in the holocaust....43 million babies killed since roe v wade.
**Jane Roe of Roe v Wade never wanted an abortion and carried her baby to term.
**It takes 15 minutes to have and abortion on average but the waiting list to adopt can take 2 to 10 years.
After the Holocaust happened...many exclaimed, "Never again!"  Lies.  Look what we have done.  We have not only repeated the sickening acts, but we have made them legal.  Come on people.
Question...
If child abuse, prostitution, rape or incest were declared legal by the U.S. Supreme Court would that make them right?
You know...
The only choice when considering abortion is between a live baby or a dead baby. If pro-abortionists really believe that "choice" is absolute, then they would have to condone a person's "choice" to rape another person (a second individual is also in the abortion picture), or to use drugs ("I want to control my own body!"). Yet, pregnant women who exercise the "choice" to take drugs are prosecuted, penalized and sometimes incarcerated for harming their preborn children. Rapists are sent to prison. A former abortion-provider confessed that the abortion advocates have lots of laughs over the coining of the word "choice" as it regards abortion, and are amazed that the public bought into that lie. The laugh is on us!

"YOU WILL NOT SILENCE MY MESSAGE, YOU WILL NOT MOCK MY GOD...YOU WILL STOP KILLING MY GENERATION!"
"WHO WILL SPEAK FOR THE CHILDREN, WHO WILL BE THEIR VOICE?"
If You want to learn anything else about abortion and it's facts...open your eyes.  Believe it or not life issues are going on all around you.

http://www.humanlife.org/abor_facts/abor_facts.shtml

Oh, and I would like to point out again that it is MY generation you are killing...WE are going to have to deal with YOUR mistakes.  Please, I beg of you...BE AN EXAMPLE.  Teach us what is RIGHT.
Please...don't kill what could be my hero...
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:25 PM on February 11, 2004 | IP
alliwantisalife

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Quote from Guest at 7:19 PM on February 10, 2004 :
However, if you make this argument to prove that abortion is wrong, shouldn't the same argument be made toward the use of condoms?  
Technically there isn't a life yet when you use the condom just sperm.  Secondly you really should look up abortion procedures.  It is disgusting.  





 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 8:11 PM on February 11, 2004 | IP
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I think abortion is horribly sad.  It is taking a life.  The circumstances would have to be terribly dear for me to even consider having one.

All this said - I am avidly Pro-Choice.

My grandmother married a horrible man.  He would not work, they had no money, and he was abusive.  The babies they could not afford just kept coming (11 in all).  She went twice for birth control and was refused because she did not have the consent of my grandfather.  

My mother wanted her tubes tied after her third child.  Her last pregnancy was troubled and my brother was born early.  She also felt that three children was enough.  She was not going to be allowed the procedure as my father said "no".  My mother's doctor felt for my mother and lied to my father, saying she would not likely be able to have any more healthy pregnancies, so he finally consented.

I married an abuser.  He did to me and my body what he wished, when he wished.  He hurt me.

I have also been raped.

The reasons I am pro-choice lie with these three women - me, my mother and my grandmother.  Not that I wish any of us had abortions (and none of us did), but because we were all denied control to our very bodies.  I am not a mere vessel, decisions will not be made for me.  I will fight, kick and and scream against those who think they can make them for me.  That includes the pro-life movement.

I would hope and pray that people will be responsible in their choices.  That they will use birth control and make sound decisions.  But I can't make them and I should not be forcing unwanted pregnancies on anyone either.  For starters a forced pregnancy will not likely be a healthy one.

___

>>>I think abortion should be illegal b/c you take away that  babies life away and in the constitution it states, " We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal that they are endowled by their Creator with certain enabliable rights, that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness." By letting women get abortions you are taking the fetus' rights away to life and the pursuite of happiness, a fetus is a living baby, if it is a living baby why would you kill it and take away its basic human rights?!?!<<<

___

Interesting argument, however it does not hold.  Not trying to sound cold, this is pure legal speak.  Fetus' do not have the same rights as the already born.  Their rights do not supercede those of the mother.  Constitutional rights do not apply to them.  That is legal fact.
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>>>Abortion is WRONG.  why should a woman just be able to decide she doesn't really want a baby after all? SHE ALREADY MADE THE DECISION!!! its over and she has to deal with the consequences.<<<
___

And what about the father?  He can walk on through world screwing and never have to face this consequence or your derision.  Hardly seems fair.
___

>>>I personally feel that women should not vote, since there is overwhelming evidence that women vote for the candidate they find most sexually attractive.<<<
___

I challenge you to present this overwhelming evidence.  
___

One last thing.  Any man who claims it's only nine months and no big deal - may I place your balls in a vice and tell you that it does not hurt?


(Edited by jito 2/18/2004 at 5:12 PM).

(Edited by jito 2/18/2004 at 5:13 PM).


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- Leslie
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 5:10 PM on February 18, 2004 | IP
alliwantisalife

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I'm sure all the Religious people will agree with me on this Murder is a sin.  I am not a religious person but I still believe this is true.  Studies have shown that women who have abortions will become depressed and miss their unborn child. If it is so sad why do you support it.  Contradicting yourself doesn't make you look that intelligent.  Jito I want you to explain to me what happens in an abortion.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 7:13 PM on February 18, 2004 | IP
p1nk0ne56

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I am just astounded by some of the things I hear about abortion.  I dont see how people keep trying to find ways to justify this killing.  Here is a quote from a pro-choice person...
"The only good fetus is a dead fetus. I'm all for late term abortions, pop it out and stomp on it for all i care. thank you for your time."
Wow, look at who we are becoming...
I dont mean to pin point this onto the older people reading this, but it has to be said that...our generation is learning how to act by watching you.  Please...show us what is right by actually taking a chance...fight against what is wrong and show us how...
[color=green]Be a Hero and save a whale--Save a baby and go to jail.
Unbelievably ridiculous.
Sad, really.
Let's give life to all we can.


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Kamy
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 12:35 AM on February 19, 2004 | IP
p1nk0ne56

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P.S. That huge one was mine...


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Kamy
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 12:37 AM on February 19, 2004 | IP
jito

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I'm sure all the Religious people will agree with me on this Murder is a sin.  I am not a religious person but I still believe this is true.  Studies have shown that women who have abortions will become depressed and miss their unborn child. If it is so sad why do you support it.  Contradicting yourself doesn't make you look that intelligent.  Jito I want you to explain to me what happens in an abortion.
___

Depends on the stage of pregnancy.  In the early stages and D&E is most likely, it sucks the fetus out.

Later in the pregnancy they remove the fetus, killing it the process.

I know what abortion is.  It is awful.  To say I full on support it is to misquote me.  (Although I sometimes think abortion is the right choice; health/life of the mother, age of the mother, rape, incest, etc.)

No matter how I feel about abortion, I feel stronger about a woman having control over her body - always.  That means it's not OK to tell her whether or not she can engage in sex, use birth control, have her tubes tied, or be pregnant.

Half the babies in the world are female and I refuse to let them go with only some of the rights as the male ones.

The pro-life movement feels like one giant rape to me.

FYI -

I faced an unplanned pregnancy at 23 due birth control issues.  

I now have nine year old pain in the butt.  His pro-life father is absent.

My kid rocks tho.  


(Edited by jito 2/19/2004 at 12:50 PM).


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- Leslie
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 12:49 PM on February 19, 2004 | IP
alliwantisalife

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You love your kid but you would have killed him?  If something is awful why do you support it?  I do beleive women should have control over theri bodies that doesn't mean they should have control over someone elses.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 6:26 PM on February 19, 2004 | IP
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Where in the world did you get that I would kill my kid?  I think I said three posts back that the circumstances would have to be dire befire I would consider an abortion (i.e., threat to my health).

Do you understand the pro-choice side at all?  People who are pro-choice are not happy go lucky gung ho and think everyone should be out killing their babies.  Most would prefer people to be responsible.

Pro-choice means just that,  Choice being the operative word.  That means having the right to make all decisions concerning your life and body yourself.   It is believing it is not the place of a stranger, a church or the government to determine what is best for me, my life or my body.  

Don't you see?  I don't want to have an abortion.  But that's MY choice.  I don't even know you.  I don't want you to choose for me.

And forcing pregnancy is taking control of woman's body.  It is biologically impossible for it not to be.


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Posts: 19 | Posted: 9:17 PM on February 19, 2004 | IP
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Abortion is controling someone elses.  What threats to your health would happen?  I am in no way supportive of forced sex.  If someone is to be put in a situation where they were forced to have sex that does not validate the killing of the innocent.  Who says you can't love a baby you never wanted to have as much as a baby you did.  Who says that someone else can't love the baby you never wanted more than you.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 9:55 PM on February 19, 2004 | IP
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Many pro-choice advocates believe in viability or the idea that the baby can be killed until it is able to survive outside the womb. What about the adult people that cannot survive without the aid of medication or pace makers or any other medical advancement? By that logic, or lack there of, they too should or can be killed because they are unable to survive on their own.
Not only is abortion immoral, but the way abortions are performed are absolutely sickening. There are several ways doctors go about terminating a pregnancy. In one way salt water is injected into the placenta and the baby breathes in the salt water, slowly suffocating it. When the baby is removed it is black because the salt has burned its skin. There have also been women who have said after the operation that she could feel the baby thrashing around trying to breathe while it slowly suffocated. Another way is that the doctor will insert tongs into the mother, pulling out anything he can grab until all of the legs and arms have been ripped from the body. The rest of the body is then pulled out of the mother. The nurse puts the baby back together on a tray to make sure everything has been taken out. For babies that are bigger their feet are positioned first and then they are pulled out until only the head remains inside the womb. An incision is made at the base of the skull, the brain is sucked out, the skull is collapsed and then removed. We would never dream of killing an adult or even an animal like this so why is an unborn baby any different? Have we become so indifferent in America that the barbaric killing of four thousand people every day doesn’t bother us?
Not only is the operation disgusting, but these babies don’t even get a proper burial. They are thrown in trashcans, bags, or boxes. I read a news article about some boys who were riding their bikes and found a box. They opened it up and found it full of tiny body parts. It’s not like these babies even did anything so horrible that would require such a vulgar death. Their only crime is that they exist.
Advocates of the pro-choice movement feel that abortions somehow protect every woman’s “right to choose.” I don’t remember reading about the right to choose in the constitution. What about the right to life? I guess this “right to choose” supercedes the right to life. Even your right to your own body doesn’t apply here. The biological fact is that the baby inside the mother has different DNA; the baby is a completely different person. No one has the right to decide if you can live or die, not even your mother. I think Mother Teresa said it best when she said, “It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish.” Essentially the right to choose is a choice between killing someone and letting them live. Somehow this right gives women more power in deciding what is best for them. It lets us break away from the patriarchal society that has its grips on us and make decisions, except it’s still the woman who pays for her decision. It is more likely that women will suffer emotionally than men after an abortion. After all it was her decision, and then she pays for it. This “right” that abortion protects is the very right that comes back to haunt them. In no way does the right to choose lesson the fact that she has just killed a human being.
Women aren’t really even given a choice when they go into a clinic. “If a woman we were counseling expressed doubts about having an abortion, we would say whatever was necessary to persuade her to abort immediately,” says Judy W. Abortion clinics, like any other profitable business, want to make money. This means doing whatever it takes to get business. Sixty percent of women who see the ultra sound decide to not go on with the abortion and clinics know this. Sometimes women aren’t even aloud to see the ultra sound or listen to the heartbeat. Kathy Sparks says, “Sometimes we lied. A girl might ask what her baby was like at a certain point in the pregnancy: Was it a baby yet? Even as early as 12 weeks a baby is totally formed, he has fingerprints, turns his head, fans his toes, feels pain, but we would say it’s not a baby yet. It’s just tissue, like a clot.” The confused women who come into these clinics aren’t even given an alternative; they are told that abortion is the only way to go.
When are we going to stop being apathetic to the epidemic that has struck our country? It’s time to say that we as citizens of this country don’t want to put up with the genocide that is taking place on our soil, in our communities. Go to a protest, write a letter to your editor, let your voice be heard. It’s time for Americans to speak out against what they feel is wrong. And maybe if enough of us speak out one woman will change her mind and one life will be saved. Even if one life is saved it will all be worth it, because everyone has the right to life no matter how young or small they are.

“Any country that accepts abortion, is not teaching its people to love, but to use violence to get what it wants.” Mother Teresa



 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 | IP
p1nk0ne56

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I commend everything you wrote...

"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."
Psalms.

Please, take into consideration what is right.


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Kamy
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 12:46 AM on February 20, 2004 | IP
alliwantisalife

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That was a paper my friend sasha wrote.  It was convincing to me so I thought it would be convincing to you.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 9:57 PM on February 20, 2004 | IP
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Your friend Sasha knows what she's talking about...very impressive.


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Kamy
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 09:13 AM on February 28, 2004 | IP
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I will tell her.  She is in debate too so she can put her arguements together nicely.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 3:07 PM on February 28, 2004 | IP
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That's awesome...
Plus, it doesnt seem like there is a rebutle to it?  Maybe it hit home?


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Kamy
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 10:07 AM on February 29, 2004 | IP
alliwantisalife

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If that paper were to be given as a speech the rest of the debate would be undebateable.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 3:48 PM on February 29, 2004 | IP
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I agree 100%


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Kamy
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 9:15 PM on March 1, 2004 | IP
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What makes me mad, Exxoss, is that the people who get the aboritons don't do it after the first week they do it after the babies heart it beating and the brain is functioning. Therefore the baby is alive. Do you people who believe it's okay know how the do this? Well if u don't then here it is: The puncture the sack and suck the body up to its neck into the tube. Then since the head is "too big" the crush it first. How could anybody accept that. Put yourself there! Most of you people like the life you live but what if you never had a chance to live it!!??


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Lala08
(love)
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 6:30 PM on April 6, 2004 | IP
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Quote from jito at 9:17 PM on February 19, 2004 :
Where in the world did you get that I would kill my kid?  I think I said three posts back that the circumstances would have to be dire befire I would consider an abortion (i.e., threat to my health).

Do you understand the pro-choice side at all?  People who are pro-choice are not happy go lucky gung ho and think everyone should be out killing their babies.  Most would prefer people to be responsible.

Pro-choice means just that,  Choice being the operative word.  That means having the right to make all decisions concerning your life and body yourself.   It is believing it is not the place of a stranger, a church or the government to determine what is best for me, my life or my body.  

Don't you see?  I don't want to have an abortion.  But that's MY choice.  I don't even know you.  I don't want you to choose for me.

And forcing pregnancy is taking control of woman's body.  It is biologically impossible for it not to be.


If the people who did the abortions were responsible then they wouldn't kill themselves afetr it was done. Doctors say that after they have made the decision the death rate has gone up! I think every woman who decides to have this done needs to see a tape of it being done and what they do after. They just through them away in trashbags! I bet after seeing this they should come to thier senses!

[random] I have a mind fo my own. Don't hate me for it!!


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Lala08
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Posts: 2 | Posted: 6:35 PM on April 6, 2004 | IP
unworthy servant

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Really, I think this discussion is very strange.  Here we have the "religious" people speaking against abortion on one hand.  With the other hand, the "religious" people are paying for the abortions.  Very strange indeed.

What word is used to describe this situation?  Oh yeah, here it is:

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: 'hi-p&-"krit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritEs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
- hypocrite adjective

Oh, in case the "religious" don't think they are funding abortions, take a look at this links.

http://www.miplannedparenthood.org/abortion.htm
http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_2061.shtml
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03527r.pdf
http://www.sandh.com/keyes/deaths.htm
http://www.populationconnection.org/About_Us/history.html
http://www.un.org/esa/population/


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WE MUST OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN - ACTS 5:29
 


Posts: 196 | Posted: 2:18 PM on April 10, 2004 | IP
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Posted by unworthy servant at Sat April 10, 2004 - 1:18 PM
Really, I think this discussion is very strange.  Here we have the "religious" people speaking against abortion on one hand.  With the other hand, the "religious" people are paying for the abortions.  Very strange indeed.

Not everyone who speaks against abortion is a "religious" person. I know a lot of people who hate abortion yet don't attend church. They know the true value of life. And "religious" people aren't purposely paying for abortions. We can't allocate where our tax dollars go-that's up to the government. What do you suggest? Just stop paying taxes? That's reasonable.
And I checked out every one of your links. The first one is stupid. All it's saying is that the abortion rate has decreased. The second one and all of the rest just give facts about abortion or talk about how the Planned Parenthood gets its money. And the Planned Parenthood group isn't necessarily bad. Yes, they do abortions which is bad, but they also inform people about abstinence and protection. As a quote from one of your sources:
"The affiliates and their clinics [Planned Parenthood] provide family planning counseling and birth control services, pregnancy testing, abortions, cancer screening, human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) testing, screening and treatment for sexually transmitted diseases, prenatal and well-baby care, and other health care services."
So they can and have done good. Their only downfall is that they provide a way to do abortions.
What good can abortions do? It's killing a person. What would have happened if your mother decided to get an abortion instead of having you? I can tell you one thing--I wouldn't be arguing right now for pro-life.
Have a Great Day!


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Marisa Dawn
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 11:03 AM on April 21, 2004 | IP
kutless

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I am new to this forum. I have been following this topic's debate for quite some time. I have seen people penalized for their grammar and spelling, and for this, their opinion is not taken seriously. I have seen teenagers' opinions not taken seriously. People who support pro-choice policies tend to use this reasoning to stray from the facts. Abortion is murder. It is a child, no matter what "evidence" you have. It has it's own genetic code. It is a person created in the image of God. Abortion is nothing short of murder to this magnificent being. Pro-choice supporters would argue that this will aid the world's overpopulation. If this is the case, why is cloning to aid infertile couples in bearing a child not an issue? They could just as easily adopt a child that was abandoned. I look forward to debating this topic with everyone. And for everyone's own benefit, I am a 15 year old girl. Does my age take away from my opinion? Absolutely not.


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*juSt*
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 8:45 PM on April 21, 2004 | IP
JJ

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Quote from Sakata at 11:49 PM on November 1, 2002 :
It is connected to her, but it isnt her, it has its own finger prints,


Only when its fingers are developed, therefore by this argument it's not seperate before this.

Quote from Sakata at 11:49 PM on November 1, 2002 :its own DNA,  


and identical twins have the same DNA, therefore are not seperate to each other

Quote from Sakata at 11:49 PM on November 1, 2002 :its own personality,  


Not until it's capable of thought in the third trimester it doesn't

Quote from Sakata at 11:49 PM on November 1, 2002 :and most of all its own soul,


Religious viewpoint, therefore doesn't apply to everyone.



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Womens rights are just that: rights.
 


Posts: 21 | Posted: 5:47 PM on September 7, 2004 | IP
JJ

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Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :
Not only is abortion immoral, but the way abortions are performed are absolutely sickening. There are several ways doctors go about terminating a pregnancy. In one way salt water is injected into the placenta and the baby breathes in the salt water, slowly suffocating it. When the baby is removed it is black because the salt has burned its skin.


Saline isn't used anymore

Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :There have also been women who have said after the operation that she could feel the baby thrashing around trying to breathe while it slowly suffocated.


Which anti-abortion site did you get that off?

Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :Another way is that the doctor will insert tongs into the mother, pulling out anything he can grab until all of the legs and arms have been ripped from the body. The rest of the body is then pulled out of the mother. The nurse puts the baby back together on a tray to make sure everything has been taken out.


Second trimester, most abortions carried out by this point.

Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :For babies that are bigger their feet are positioned first and then they are pulled out until only the head remains inside the womb. An incision is made at the base of the skull, the brain is sucked out, the skull is collapsed and then removed.


Makes up a tiny percent of abortions, including medical abortions.

Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :We would never dream of killing an adult or even an animal like this so why is an unborn baby any different? Have we become so indifferent in America that the barbaric killing of four thousand people every day doesn’t bother us?


Prove its a baby.

Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :What about the right to life? I guess this “right to choose” supercedes the right to life. Even your right to your own body doesn’t apply here. The biological fact is that the baby inside the mother has different DNA;


Identical twins have the same DNA, therefore are the same person?

 
Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :except it’s still the woman who pays for her decision. It is more likely that women will suffer emotionally than men after an abortion. After all it was her decision, and then she pays for it. This “right” that abortion protects is the very right that comes back to haunt them.


actually, the American Psychology Association has found that most women don't regret their abortions.

Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :Women aren’t really even given a choice when they go into a clinic. “If a woman we were counseling expressed doubts about having an abortion, we would say whatever was necessary to persuade her to abort immediately,” says Judy W. Abortion clinics, like any other profitable business, want to make money.


which anti-abortion site is this off?

 
Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :Even as early as 12 weeks a baby is totally formed, he has fingerprints, turns his head, fans his toes, feels pain, but we would say it’s not a baby yet. It’s just tissue, like a clot.”


Can't feel pain at this stage, can't think.

Quote from alliwantisalife at 10:07 PM on February 19, 2004 :The confused women who come into these clinics aren’t even given an alternative; they are told that abortion is the only way to go.


Any independent source for this? Or is it another anti-abortion site?



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Womens rights are just that: rights.
 


Posts: 21 | Posted: 5:57 PM on September 7, 2004 | IP
    
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