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   Abortion Debates
     ABORTION, S.C.R, BOTH V. GOOD!
       Stem Cell Research and Abortion are GOOD!!!

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katiedekker

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I believe stem cell research should be able to continue without the issue becoming a political football. Debate over it has already slowed the research down dramatically. I ask the ppl against it, would your views change if you were in a wheelchair or suffering from cancer?

The major issue surrounding stem cell research is the stem cells can be taken from an embryo. I cannot believe people are saying that embryo's which are to be thrown out, should not be used to attempt to improve the lives of millions of people around the world.

As for abortion being murder, there is no right to life in any society on Earth today anyway. Humans raise farm animals for slaughter; destroy forests; pollute rivers and lakes until no fish can live there; kill deer and elk for sport, leopards for their pelts and whales for fertilizer; entrap dolphins, gasping and writhing, in great tuna nets; club seal pups to death; and render a species extinct every day. All these beasts and vegetables are as alive as we.

And all because a mother decides to abort the development of something tinier than a fullstop, there is suddenly reason for huge debate, all the while slowing down research which could improve the lives of millions.

I say we should not be debating over the morals of abortion or stem cell research, but rather take action and help our wildlife and environment, as well as the thousands of poverty-stricken children, dying of starvation every day, even as we speak. Certainly a much bigger issue, why isn't this swarming our media?

I think we all need to get our priorities right.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 07:26 AM on July 31, 2004 | IP
Sol

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Quote from katiedekker at 07:26 AM on July 31, 2004 :

I ask the ppl against it, would your views change if you were in a wheelchair or suffering from cancer?



No, my view wouldn't change.  Even then I would still be against it.
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 05:08 AM on January 9, 2005 | IP
got_dooie

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As for abortion being murder, there is no right to life in any society on Earth today anyway. Humans raise farm animals for slaughter; destroy forests; pollute rivers and lakes until no fish can live there; kill deer and elk for sport, leopards for their pelts and whales for fertilizer; entrap dolphins, gasping and writhing, in great tuna nets; club seal pups to death; and render a species extinct every day. All these beasts and vegetables are as alive as we.

And all because a mother decides to abort the development of something tinier than a fullstop, there is suddenly reason for huge debate, all the while slowing down research which could improve the lives of millions.

I say we should not be debating over the morals of abortion or stem cell research, but rather take action and help our wildlife and environment, as well as the thousands of poverty-stricken children, dying of starvation every day, even as we speak. Certainly a much bigger issue, why isn't this swarming our media?


NO!  As rational beings, we have a responsibility towards taking care of the non rational things, but that does not mean we cannot kill it.  How would we live if we don't kill animal or plants?  Eat yourself?  No!  

The other point is that you fail to see that animals do not feel what is called existential pain.  Even though they suffer they do not know why they're suffering nor do they understand the pain.  As far as plaint is concern, vegetative souls are no souls.

If you are comparing humans to other irrational living things, you are attempting to give rationality to the irrational.

For us to think that we can take care of nature is bullshit.  Nature does not need our help, what we are doing is for our own selfishness.  We want to better our surrounding so we can live better, not for nature to be better.  Besides in a country where shooting a bald eagle is to be fined 5000 dollars or more, and some times in jail (in certain states), and to have abortion be legal, is  to be plain ironic.

--dooie


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I always live in the past, the present is not not, the future is not yet, therfore only the past.
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 12:44 PM on January 21, 2005 | IP
Steeeeve

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Is the creator of this thread suggesting that protecting the enviroment is more important than protecting a life?  Are you saying that your size should determine whether or not you have the right to live?  Are you saying killing 50million is worth saving millions?
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 11:35 PM on March 3, 2005 | IP
James

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You're a wacko environmentalist, and also what Rush Limbaugh terms a "Feminazi," a feminist woman who seeks as many abortions as possible.

I said on another forum about 6 months ago that if I was dying from cancer and I could be cured with stem cells or something resulting from the research of it, I would say no. And I would.

How can you not think this is wrong?
Anyway, maybe I'll move onto the REAL abortion topics.
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 3:49 PM on March 5, 2005 | IP
Steeeeve

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HAHAHA I love the term Feminazi...i hadn't heard that before.  I am not a fan of feminist because they seem to have lost touch with what they set out to do.  Now they seem to just want to be right and never wrong
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 3:39 PM on March 13, 2005 | IP
K8

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Quote from Steeeeve at 11:35 PM on March 3, 2005 :
Is the creator of this thread suggesting that protecting the enviroment is more important than protecting a life?  Are you saying that your size should determine whether or not you have the right to live?  Are you saying killing 50million is worth saving millions?


well, just wait a minute there...could it be, perhaps, that protecting the environment protects lives? we use the environment for our own livelihood...to not try to sustain it would be unbelievably harmful to the human race (not to mention incredibly stupid!).

anyway, about abortion - how many people here think it should be made illegal?

in my personal opinion, i do believe the act of abortion kills a human life, yet i'm not against it. If i were to get pregnant tomorrow, there would be no doubt that i would get an abortion. Having a baby would ruin my life as it is...fullstop. I believe I, and all women, should have the right to CHOOSE whether they wish to be a mother. In the end, we're the ones who have to go through the pregnancy and potentially look after the child...no one else. We have a right to live our lives as we see fit.  

hammingaround@hotmail.com
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 08:04 AM on April 15, 2005 | IP
Fender

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Quote from K8 at 08:04 AM on April 15, 2005 :
Quote from Steeeeve at 11:35 PM on March 3, 2005 :
Is the creator of this thread suggesting that protecting the enviroment is more important than protecting a life?  Are you saying that your size should determine whether or not you have the right to live?  Are you saying killing 50million is worth saving millions?


well, just wait a minute there...could it be, perhaps, that protecting the environment protects lives? we use the environment for our own livelihood...to not try to sustain it would be unbelievably harmful to the human race (not to mention incredibly stupid!).

anyway, about abortion - how many people here think it should be made illegal?

in my personal opinion, i do believe the act of abortion kills a human life, yet i'm not against it. If i were to get pregnant tomorrow, there would be no doubt that i would get an abortion. Having a baby would ruin my life as it is...fullstop. I believe I, and all women, should have the right to CHOOSE whether they wish to be a mother. In the end, we're the ones who have to go through the pregnancy and potentially look after the child...no one else. We have a right to live our lives as we see fit.  

hammingaround@hotmail.com



spoken like a true feminist,women's"rights" trump all,her majesty the Queen has spoken,let all hear and obey the one in posession of the sacred vagina.

(Edited by Fender 6/1/2005 at 10:09 PM).
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 10:04 PM on June 1, 2005 | IP
K8

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Quote from Fender at 10:04 PM on June 1, 2005 :
Quote from K8 at 08:04 AM on April 15, 2005 :
Quote from Steeeeve at 11:35 PM on March 3, 2005 :
Is the creator of this thread suggesting that protecting the enviroment is more important than protecting a life?  Are you saying that your size should determine whether or not you have the right to live?  Are you saying killing 50million is worth saving millions?


well, just wait a minute there...could it be, perhaps, that protecting the environment protects lives? we use the environment for our own livelihood...to not try to sustain it would be unbelievably harmful to the human race (not to mention incredibly stupid!).

anyway, about abortion - how many people here think it should be made illegal?

in my personal opinion, i do believe the act of abortion kills a human life, yet i'm not against it. If i were to get pregnant tomorrow, there would be no doubt that i would get an abortion. Having a baby would ruin my life as it is...fullstop. I believe I, and all women, should have the right to CHOOSE whether they wish to be a mother. In the end, we're the ones who have to go through the pregnancy and potentially look after the child...no one else. We have a right to live our lives as we see fit.  

hammingaround@hotmail.com



spoken like a true feminist,women's"rights" trump all,her majesty the Queen has spoken,let all hear and obey the one in posession of the sacred vagina.

(Edited by Fender 6/1/2005 at 10:09 PM).


Spoken like a true male chauvinist.

How old are you? Believe it or not, self-respecting women don't waste their time with morons like yourself.

btw, got_dooie -

you say we can kill animals as they "do not feel what is called existential pain.  Even though they suffer they do not know why they're suffering nor do they understand the pain."

erm...neither does a human foetus, so you do the math...



 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 01:57 AM on June 2, 2005 | IP
got_dooie

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Ahh...but you missed the point.  The point I was getting at is human persons DO know and understand why they are suffering, hence rational.  And because all human personhood includes "HUMAN PERSONS," therefore once the unborn child is established (which it is) as a human person, it does not matter if it has rationality yet or not.  The whole is always greater than the parts.  The parts do not fully define the whole.


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I always live in the past, the present is not not, the future is not yet, therfore only the past.
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 2:31 PM on June 2, 2005 | IP
K8

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so if we were to train a certain animal (like, oh i don't know...a gorilla) to understand what pain is, and why they're suffering, would it be then wrong to kill it?
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:44 PM on June 2, 2005 | IP
got_dooie

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Well for starters, understanding and knowing pain cannot be taught.  Notice the term "train."  If one is trained to do certain things, one not necessarily understand such.  Futher, how can one teach comprehension unless the subject is rational, in which case, no animals are.  Knowing and understanding requires reflection and coming to conclusion on the part of the intellect, in which case the animal CANNOT do either.


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I always live in the past, the present is not not, the future is not yet, therfore only the past.
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 10:52 AM on June 3, 2005 | IP
K8

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Can you please explain this whole 'rational' and 'irrational' thing to me? For instance, what qualities makes one either/or? Thanks
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 01:49 AM on June 4, 2005 | IP
got_dooie

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Rational beings are beings that can reflect upon things, and even further--reflect upon themselves thinking.  I can realize that I am writing and I also can realize what I am.  To carry the notion of a rational being further, a rational being possess what is called the intellect.  The immaterial and anorganic part of the body which co-exist with the body until physical death.  The notion of the immateriality and anorganic property of the intellect cann be discuss somewhere else.  But what I am trying to point out here is that the human being is a rational being which can understand and reflect upon itself.  No other animals can do that.  The dog can see food and instinctively react and "know" that it is dinner time.  Yet it cannot reflect upon itself eating, the food it eats or the person who is feeding it.  

Further, I realize the argument would be some what along the line of: If the retarded person and the unborn child cannot rationalize are they not the same as an animal?  

To this I answer:  Because human beings are recognized as rational animals, and because no human beings are alike in his/her advancement of rationality, one cannot discriminate on who would be less human because one possesses less intelligence than others.  Rather, once a person is in the human persons family, the inherent and intrinsic worth of that person demands that they be recognized and treated just like every other person despise the imperfections they possess.


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I always live in the past, the present is not not, the future is not yet, therfore only the past.
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 5:34 PM on June 4, 2005 | IP
Raelian1

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Bottom line: Stem Cell research is essential for finding a cure from a lot of currently incurable diseases. Also, abortion needs to be legal as to avoid any unwanted pregnancies. If we make abortion illegal, then we either see people going oversees to get one, or worse, have quacks with coat hangers performing abortions. Also, the poorer populations will have children they can't possibly take care of.

(Edited by Raelian1 6/27/2005 at 5:37 PM).


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Proud member of rael.org
 


Posts: 68 | Posted: 11:10 AM on June 23, 2005 | IP
Smiegal

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Posted by Raelian1 at Thu June 23, 2005 - 11:10 AM
Also, abortion needs to be legal as to avoid any unwanted pregnancies.

Excuse me they are: but I noted that you said, and I quote Unwanted!

According to 1982 polls, there is no difference in the attitudes of blacks and whites toward legal abortion. Non-white women, however, have an abortion rate (56.8 per 1000) that is twice that of white women (24.3 per 1000). To quote two black men: Dr. Kenneth Edelin: "I know what genocide is -- and it isn't doing legal abortions. Black women have suffered and died from botched, illegal abortion. That is genocide." Carl T. Rowan: "(Black) women know that, as long as someone else does not force an abortion on them, it is not genocide."

My wife was forced to undergo a  D&E at the age of 16 due to rape, before I meet her,  she is now 38 and I can assure you the thrapy one goes through to get around that and still does is very costly.

Med. it is far safer and benifecial to the womans safety/ and the speddy ness of the surgery and the long term side effects after the ordeal to do a C-cection. Which I might add has had many Dr in a quandry, in the field for the last 30 plus years but you see it takes planning!

Well see:
Women have abortions for their own convenience or on "whim."

Posted by Raelian1 at Thu June 23, 2005 - 11:10 AM
have quacks with coat hangers performing abortons. Also, the poorer populations will have children they can't possibly take care of.

Are you refering to the fine Dr.'s I know and trust they are Quack's?
By the way we are already paying out the butt last time I looked! Or at least I am and have been fot the last 38 years. Its called afermative action need I say more?

Oh yea If Beatovan's Mom could had gottan a abortion he would not have been there! Its in the facts mabey you should read a little Pros and con .

I try and there is a lot I dont know Believe me I am pretty dence!  Mr D
 


Posts: 11 | Posted: 4:49 PM on June 23, 2005 | IP
skins38

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katiedekker

Lets see i would call you a tree hugging enviormental nutjob.  First of all humans are diffrent than animals, we have souls, reason and many more things.  I bet you believe in evolotion.  Survival of the fittest so why should you care?  im sure they capture the dolphins in the TUNA nets on purpose dont they?  R u a member of PETA?  Wait then we cant eat can we?  cause its wrong to eat animals but wait its wrong to eat plants too cause there all alive?  i should go shoot my self because im such a horrible person.

Welcome to the real world things die so others can survive thats how it always has been and always will be.  


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2nd Amendment- First line of defense;Last resort to combat tyranny and oppression.
 


Posts: 97 | Posted: 9:57 PM on June 23, 2005 | IP
    
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