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When Human Cloning becomes safe, should it be legal ?†

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/humancloning.HTM
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 2:21 PM on May 15, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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I believe so because, what if we cloned JESUS what would trhe chritians  say? its been proven possible and we do have a few of his blood cells...so what would they say?
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 3:59 PM on September 4, 2002 | IP
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I don't know if a "I told you so" is a good enough reason to legalize something as controversial as human cloning...


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:54 PM on September 4, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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true i would have to take a poll and give evidense
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 2:42 PM on September 8, 2002 | IP
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lol. cloning jesus.  I say no, it would lead to clone suicide.  What would that say about earth?  people would be depressed since they are clones, and not true humans.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
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Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:00 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
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If we cloned people, we would no longer be unique individuals like God made us.


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Happiness is wetting your pants--the whole world can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
-Author Unknown
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 02:20 AM on October 19, 2002 | IP
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this debate seems a little lack-luster.  i believe that people are given souls at the moment the sperm touches the egg, be that in the womb, a petri dish, a test tube or where ever else that do that.  is sperm touching an egg.  it is the joining of two people, animals, etc in order to create another.  cloning is just copying some dna.  i don't see how anybody could want to create soul-less beings, or who would want to be one.  i don't particularly believe in cloning and i definitely don't want to see human cloning legalized


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 12:13 AM on October 21, 2002 | IP
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um, I was reading the pros and cons page, and it mentioned gays could have biologically related children. ew. why would i want to clone MYSELF, when i could just adopt a kid who needs a dad? i don't see any good reason to have cloning, except to use it as technology to get rid of birth defects, viruses, etc. and maybe for organ replacement/spinal regeneration, etc. i can't see why a person whould want to clone a dead child. that's so morbid. but i do not see any reason to believe a "soul" is given to someone at conception? why then? it seems arbitrary. anyways, i don't believe in sould so i don't care.


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Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:29 AM on October 22, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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i believe that things other than dna make up the core of who a person is.  things such as personality and character.  yes, these things are also shaped over time, but people are born with the general outline of them.  i really don't think that personality and character can be defined by amino acids, proteins, nucleotide chains, etc.  there is much more to people than that.


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Posts: 134 | Posted: 12:52 PM on October 22, 2002 | IP
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the idea of cloning an individual  is absurd and scary.  cloning can be used for good things like killing viruses and transplants.  but scientist that try to clone a person is playing God, and thats just wrong.  Plus why would a person want to be cloned?  we have enough idiots running around this world without cloning more.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

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Posts: 270 | Posted: 12:06 PM on November 12, 2002 | IP
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Quote from squirt1983 at 02:20 AM on October 19, 2002 :
If we cloned people, we would no longer be unique individuals like God made us.
cloning Jesus wasn't funny gay wade.  My dad's a preacher and he'll eat you alive if you say anything like that again fagget!!!





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Posts: 34 | Posted: 4:54 PM on November 16, 2002 | IP
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Quote from Cool-Hand-Dave at 12:13 AM on October 21, 2002 :
this debate seems a little lack-luster. †i believe that people are given souls at the moment the sperm touches the egg, be that in the womb, a petri dish, a test tube or where ever else that do that. †is sperm touching an egg. †it is the joining of two people, animals, etc in order to create another. †cloning is just copying some dna. †i don't see how anybody could want to create soul-less beings, or who would want to be one. †i don't particularly believe in cloning and i definitely don't want to see human cloning legalized
squirt I totally believe you!! Exosses needs to take after you then maybe people would began to like him!!!!





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Posts: 34 | Posted: 4:56 PM on November 16, 2002 | IP
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why do we need to clone humans anyway? The world population is already a problem. Why add more of us who are LIKE us?


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Posts: 22 | Posted: 09:54 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
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I STRONGLY believe we shouldn't. Why do we even want to clone. Have you ever heard the saying "kids are cruel"? What will the REAL children say? plus God made man NOT man made man.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:21 AM on December 7, 2002 | IP
meditate

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Don't scientists think that if the info for nuclear weapons can get on the black market, so will cloning ? Just imagine another Hitler...or 2 or 3. If people want to look for cures and such, legalize stem cell research. Better to use murdered fetuses for the improvement of mankind than to throw them in the dump. Cloning is useless. Maynard, about your transplant talk. Even if you or I were cloned, the clone would still have to be "born" and would have to grow up before we could receive the transplant. Thus a clone's organs will do neither of us any good, even if it technically IS our organs, because we would be dead before the clone grew up enough to allow for a transplant. Also, how would a clone feel about having to give up his or her life for that purpose ? Remember, clones would be people too. Use your head.


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Meditate
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 07:20 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
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about what you say about "cloning hitler" what would it matter..the person would only have the other persons genetic makeup, not that persons exact thoughts or personality, we would not only have to clone hitler but also brainwash him to be the same as the original, and about the cloned organs....you would not have to make a clone of an entire person just the part you want. We already have the technology to clone human livers inside of pigs and human ears on the back of rats (gross isnt it) the cloned part must match the recipients blood type and it will work.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 07:29 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
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true, but if someone was sick enough to clone hitler, i'm pretty sure they would be sick enough to brainwash the clone to think and act/react like hitler. And on the issue of clone souls. If there are souls in normal humans, would it be extreme to think that a clone of a dead person could be possessed by the original persons soul ?


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Posts: 33 | Posted: 08:14 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
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i think cloning is immoral because their acting out as Gog (the most High) because there creating people as if God did. plus in the bible it say's God created the heavens and the earth  but people change the words and said  
"let us create people in our own image" but i looke it up and said somthing completly different. so i think god thinks it's wrong 2 clone
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:27 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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Quote from Faze at 09:54 AM on December 4, 2002 :
why do we need to clone humans anyway? The world population is already a problem. Why add more of us who are LIKE us?

ok faze you bring up a good point, the reason is for medical science
-i am xenjael


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:05 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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I think we should legalize cloning because it would help people with special medical needs.


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Posts: 1 | Posted: 2:41 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
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I'm sorry to cut in here, but are we talking about individual organ cloning or complete human cloning?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 7:48 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
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Instead of wasting a lot of money cloning people to take the "easy" way out of diseases, the money would better be spent on research to prevent the disease and to cure it without crossing moral lines. sure a genetic match of organs would help a lot, i think people can do better than this.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:36 PM on December 17, 2002 | IP
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I dont think cloning should be legal. think of it this way. Would YOU want to be a clone?


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 6:57 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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alright. late entry. Check out this "eve" kid thats supposed to be a clone (foxnews.com or cnn.com) So they went outside the US and cloned someone! Who has an ego so big that they cannot just go and make a child the old-fashioned way or adopt? Why must THEY themself be the only one worthy of reproduction?


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Posts: 134 | Posted: 11:14 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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tanx, xenjael
Anywayz, Cloning for me is a BIG, as in a major, NO-NO! Maybe it's ok to other organisms but to HUMANS! Cloning Jesus is ridiculous! and even worse when it comes to Hitler. Are you crazy?! As if you've awaken the DeAd! Your just disrespecting the dead people. That's why their dead because their time in this world is over. Why should we bring them back?
Can't you imagine how scary it is when you wake up one day and all the people around you are just LIKE you? And for some reason why would we want to clone people if we could easily make them?
I also believe Cloning is against the will of God. He did tell us to multiply but not like this. We are destroying the essence of life. We're not creating humans - we're creating MoNsTeRs...

(Edited by Faze 1/4/2003 at 08:04 AM).


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Use your mind - don't let it rot, let those words flow - don't let them get stuck
And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 08:00 AM on January 4, 2003 | IP
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Cloning Jesus or Hitler would not bring them back. As stated before, clones are only genetically similar, personality being affected by where and how they are raised. You could not raise them in a way that they'd be the same people.

We're going to end up doing bad things with this technology, like Faze said. We're going to end up genetically manipulating people to the point that they will do something terrible and be hard to stop.

I don't see why you'd want a clone, either. Why would you want someone just like you around? Criminals and terrorists could use it, sure, but why would an avergage person do it?


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 4:19 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
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Quote from Broker at 4:19 PM on January 4, 2003 :
Cloning Jesus or Hitler would not bring them back. As stated before, clones are only genetically similar, personality being affected by where and how they are raised. You could not raise them in a way that they'd be the same people.

We're going to end up doing bad things with this technology, like Faze said. We're going to end up genetically manipulating people to the point that they will do something terrible and be hard to stop.

I don't see why you'd want a clone, either. Why would you want someone just like you around? Criminals and terrorists could use it, sure, but why would an avergage person do it?



tanx Broker
Anywayz, this type of technology is not yet known that well. It's very complicated. Out of what we know, the people we'll clone would be the ones to destroy us - like using our own technology to extinguish us/against us. In short, as if were creating something that would kill us in the end.
And I agree, cloning any dead famous personality wouldn't exactly bring them back with the same characteristics and attitude, but who knows?, they could even be WORSE than before?


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Use your mind - don't let it rot, let those words flow - don't let them get stuck
And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 10:04 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
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A clone is genetically no different than an identical twin.  Identical genetic makeup, but in no way the same person, no more than twins are the same individual.  There is far more to gain from the use of cloning technology than there is to fear- the potential could be immense.  The fears of cloneing Jesus, a touchy and debateable issue, or Hitler or any other historical figure are quite simply baseless.
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 2:54 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
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Fear? What fear? FIrst off, they'd be a human. These aren't just zombies. They are people with feelings and thoughts. I don't think we should use people in science experiments like that. Would you want to have the face of Hitler? Would you want to have the face of Jesus? If you were a clone of Jesus I would think religious groups wouldn't like you because they thought you wanted to be Jesus, but it wouldn't ne your choice.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 8:41 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
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Quote from Broker at 8:41 PM on January 5, 2003 :
Fear? What fear? FIrst off, they'd be a human. These aren't just zombies. They are people with feelings and thoughts. I don't think we should use people in science experiments like that. Would you want to have the face of Hitler? Would you want to have the face of Jesus? If you were a clone of Jesus I would think religious groups wouldn't like you because they thought you wanted to be Jesus, but it wouldn't ne your choice.



I agree, the clones would also have feelings. Just because cloning is a big leap to medicine it wouldn't mean we should clone everyone who needs transplants and get the needed organs. these clones also have the right to choose. What if they don't want to donate their organs? (actually, they'll already be forced to do so). Are these cloned humans just subjects of transplantation? if we've gotten all we need of them, are we just going to throw them away? What would we do if all clonedpeople purposely for transplantation wouldn't let us take what we want from them. These clones are not DOLLS that when we're tired of them, we just thrash them. They have a heart and brain. They feel. They can cry and laugh - not just mere empty shells!


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Use your mind - don't let it rot, let those words flow - don't let them get stuck
And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 09:36 AM on January 6, 2003 | IP
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And haven't you read in magazines and newspapers that in 10  embryos that undergo cloning experiments, only one is expected to be a success. Imagine 9 lives wasted and sacrificed* for only 1!
human cloning is beset with moral and ethical issues. In trying to come up with one succesful clone, a number of embryos are destroyed.
Take this one:
Doctors will get abt. 400 eggs from up to 40 women donors. They'll suck out the nucleus of each egg with a fine needle. Then these DNA-free eggs and the donor cells from the person to be cloned will be placed next to one another and zapped with electricity. This will cause the cell and the egg to fuse. Then the rebuilt eggs would divide to form embryos. these embryos would be then implanted to another set of women that would act as surrogate mothers. Because embryos often fail to implant, each surrogate mother will get several embryos at once. Up to 50 surrogates would be needed to ensure nine or ten pregnancies. Of these, most will terminate early by miscarriage or by medical intervention. Then it is HOPED a normal baby clone would be born.
Now, think, people...


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Use your mind - don't let it rot, let those words flow - don't let them get stuck
And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 09:56 AM on January 6, 2003 | IP
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Cloned mice are often deformed and many animal clones have serious health problems.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 10:32 AM on January 6, 2003 | IP
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SECURITY ALERT: null[color=red][color=yellow][color=green]do u seriously believe that all cloning is bad?...well i dont...when if u were waiting for a heart..but htey didnt have one..u would have to wait for someone to die..maybe it would be too late..cloned body parts are ok..humans are bad...instead of waiting for a heart you would have a good un used heart waiting for you
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:31 PM on January 19, 2003 | IP
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Cloning organs, after extensive testing, is fine by me. Cloning humans that are inviduals and have feelings and using them for parts is not fine.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 11:58 AM on January 20, 2003 | IP
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I think human cloning should not be allowed because God made each person diffrent and unique in their own way.If God wanted 14,000 identical people on his earth he would made it that way.So what is that telling you when you don't see 19,000 people just like you?God did it for a reason

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:29 PM on February 13, 2003 | IP
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you people are all stuck on the "God" thing. i believe in god but who gives a sh*t.god has nothing to do with it. i dont care what he wants, i care what will help people. It would help people.cloning is good.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:14 AM on March 11, 2003 | IP
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[/b][/i][/u][color=red]
Cloning is wrong it should never be done.  I will never want cloning
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:13 PM on April 3, 2003 | IP
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It saddens me to see so many people with misconceptions about cloning, and what it would actually be used for in the real world. Not just research, but, believe it or not, population control.

Human beings are still animals. We strive, against the logic that we are in no danger of being wiped out by predators, to produce more offspring than the world can handle, like rabbits hunted by wildcats. The need is no longer there to produce 7 children per couple, yet some people still do, and more yet. If there is some way to remove the instinct of reproduction, yet still have a way of sustaining our population, this is what we need. Be it through genetic engineering, or simple self control, we must stop ourselves somehow, or our world will be doomed, and there is no doubt about it.

But you already know that, don't you? So why do we need cloning?

Cloning is still expensive and unpredictable. I acknowledge that, and I don't think it's moral to clone a human with our current understanding of it's processes. However, the research must go on, and eventually we have to let it pass as normal. Through cloning and a measure of control over our instincts, we can manage our population back to sustainable levels. I think that the _only_ feasable way to do this is through management and laws, because some people, besides the fact that logically, we _must_ restrain ourselves, will be overpowered by their instincts. We don't need cloning to do this, we have in-vitro, but cloning adds a new measure of control over our world, and if people can accept it, these measures can begin to be utilized.

It is natural for us to control the world. From the beginning, we have used fire to change our food into more digestable and palatable forms, and you cannot say that fire is unnatural. You can't say that anything is unnatural, it all came from the same star, and that star came from the same moment in time that the universe was created in. Because we refine an ore into pure metal, it degrades that metal into being unnatural? That insults metal, and I don't like that. ;) (I'm a swordsmith for movies, collectors, etc.) We are not creating the metal, the metal was already there. The metal will return to what you call the "natural world" after we dispose of it, through corrosion, oxidation, or whatever means.

No, if there is a god, I believe he meant us to be able to control the world. It makes us what we are, the ability to think, create, and yes, if we so choose, destroy. If God wanted us to be good above all else, he'd have stuck to a good-natured herbivorous rodent. I think he wants us to choose, to struggle, for without struggle, there is no meaning to any deed at all, be it good or evil.

Now, back to the subject at hand:
First, no clone is identical to it's "parent". Even physically. There are things outside genes that determine in part appearances, tendencies towards different personalities, and even a person's sex. I can't remember exactly what, but just do a little research, and you'll find the stories and information.

Apart from that, of course, no clone can have the same exact thoughts as the thing before him. Dolly reacted as an independant sheep would, she didn't play out the reactions of her parent's life, one by one by one. If she did, you would have heard of it. Even if you were to brainwash a person to think like Hitler, he had a childhood, and a great many other experiences you would never dig up, and those little experiences make a person what he is.

I have yet to see a solid explaination as to what a soul is. Some people seem to believe it's what makes a person think, to choose for themselves, yet it has been proven, _PROVEN_, not just conjectured like a religion attempts to do, that the brain and the senses carry out this process. Others believe that it is the power inside everyone that makes his decisions have force on the world, his "willpower", his "human will". Most of these believe animals do not have souls, and yet the actions of an individual animal affects the entire ecosystem if you delve deep enough into it's connections. Once again, it's been proven, not conjectured as such, and time after time by many different researchers. There are others, but I don't feel like listing them for you to attempt to contradict with more conjectures.

All of your stupidity sickens me, but I still have hope. You may yet contribute, and even if you don't, the scientists, engineers, philosophers, lawyers, farmers, McDonalds workers, or whomever else that do will always be there.

It's sad, though, that we can't have your help in making this world grow into what it should be, better than the day before. We should never stop growing, we should never be content with the world as it is, because that would be fooling ourselves into thinking it is the best it can be.

Everyone can help, even if only by support and understanding. You don't have to quit your jobs and create a breakthrough in electronics, genetics, or astronomy. Or would you rather shit on everything other people do to help? Silly, pointless thing to do, but it's your choice.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:01 PM on May 31, 2003 | IP
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I swear to "God" we will be the death of us.
God will start armageddon...with the creation of us.  We will finish it.
I vote NO to legalization or even experimentation with cloning.


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"And i was a hand grenade that never stopped exploding..."
-Marilyn Manson
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 02:37 AM on June 4, 2003 | IP
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Even if everything did go right clones would never be the same as humans. And it sounds like a Sci-Fi movie to say that clones will feel left out and below on rank compared to humans, but it is ture. Why would you want to produce something to put it down?


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-Hermes
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 10:56 AM on June 7, 2003 | IP
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It's inevitably going to happen eventually, what's the problem with creating humans- unnaturally? It's the same principal as test tube babies, meddling with natureís course but why not? Put aside however you interpret the teachings of any God/Goddess or Gods/Goddesses you may believe in; developing technology is part of evolution.
As long as cloning is safe and people are aware that you cannot recreate a personality, only a person because it is your experiences that make us what we are. You couldn't recreate another Hitler etc, because it is NOT the gene that creates a malignant being, it is their childhood. It is only immoral to some and is it right that technology should be kept from the rest of the world? Is it right that cloning should be prohibited when it is part of the development of technology and therefore evolution?


 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 09:40 AM on May 28, 2004 | IP
Muffility-12

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The only reservation I have against human cloning is the health risks on the mother and baby. However, since the topic is only about cloning when it is safe, this argument is meaningless. This aside, I don't think there is any problem with reproductive human cloning. The idea that someone will clone Hitler is just plain silly, because you can't clone someone's thoughts. If you wanted a new Hitler, you could just brainwash a Baby born the "old fashioned" way. Cloning would be useless in your situation.


 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 10:02 PM on August 1, 2004 | IP
karl

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i just want to ask people if cloning was legal and 100% safe how would we tell clones from normal people and how would they be accepted in society? i would like to hear from all of you's


karl
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 06:07 AM on November 4, 2004 | IP
smart cookie

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well you see they would be distinguished due to the fact there would be more people that looked alike. For example, if i had a clone made of my self there would be another person that looked identical to me. And if it was 100% safe more people might do it and there would be alot of people that look as if they were identical twins. Another thing is, look at the risks we are taking, out of 227 tries Dolly the sheep was cloned but died because of genetic problems. We already know how to reproduce but we do not know how to cure cancers. So we should spend more time where it is actualy important in life and learn how to cure the alreday ill then produce more that have the chance of easly becoming ill due to genetic problems.


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Posts: 1 | Posted: 8:36 PM on January 4, 2005 | IP
SJChaput

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Quote from FreedomFighter13 at 4:54 PM on November 16, 2002 :
Quote from squirt1983 at 02:20 AM on October 19, 2002 :
If we cloned people, we would no longer be unique individuals like God made us.
cloning Jesus wasn't funny gay wade. †My dad's a preacher and he'll eat you alive if you say anything like that again fagget!!!



Wow your dad must have raised you really well to talk to people like that. and your dad must not be much of a respectable person to do that.

on another note, what was that guy talking about, we have some of Jesus's blood cells, that is ridiculous, we have no living DNA of Jesus. Who told you that
 


Posts: 32 | Posted: 5:33 PM on January 20, 2005 | IP
kenniaglez

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              First, everything happens for a reason. If you can not have babies, if your baby die, etc. there is a reason for that. Letís leave the creation work to the real one in charge. Is not good that we are trying to play and pretend that we can do everything. The simple fact is that we canít. God give us a lot of intelligence and talent to succeed in our lives, so instead of being pretending that we are God (the creator of LIFE) letís use all the talent and intelligence to do brilliant and GOOD things for us and the others.
I read here that infertile couples would be able to have children that are biologically related to them. However, there are many kids with out parents, why not help those kids too? We donít need to create a new kid because there many of them waiting for us. Moreover, I read that parents who lose a child may want to clone him, and gay couples want kids that are biologically related to them. For these causes.. I just can say that is INSANE. I canít imagine the pain of live with an exact copy of your kid. You know that is not him and nobody will be, even though if they look just like him. In addition, gay couples with biological babies???? That is definitely not right. In this case there are many things that are not rightÖ first, gay couples? That is not right, because the biology, God and everything show us that a couple should be woman and man, thatís the nature. However if 2 guys want to be together, okay, you can accept that. Second, should gay couples be able to adopt kids? That is a tougher question. I donít see this like a right thing. Lets think in the kid, who is going to be his/her mom?? Is just not right!! And third, gay couples with biological babies???, NOOO. That is completely against God, nature and all the rules in the world.
What do you think?  
[color=navy][/color]
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 10:38 AM on March 30, 2005 | IP
Smoked Wolf

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1) How do you know the rules of the world? 2) How can something that occurs within the world be against said rules? 3) Cloning occurs within nature itself. Plants clone themselves, as do certain types of cell.


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Posts: 2 | Posted: 3:58 PM on June 8, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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Twins are natural clones.
A clone would be as differnt as a twin, differnt finger prints, differnt hair styles etc.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 9:16 PM on June 11, 2005 | IP
Raelian1

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Cloning is good, cloning is the secret to eternal life. Cloning also has medicinal benefits as well.

Quote from Xenjael at 3:59 PM on September 4, 2002 :
I believe so because, what if we cloned JESUS what would trhe chritians  say? its been proven possible and we do have a few of his blood cells...so what would they say?


That has already happened about 2000 years ago. The resurrection story of Jesus was actually  our scientific creators (Elohim) cloning Jesus a new body and transferring his memories and personality into this new body.




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Posts: 68 | Posted: 9:11 PM on June 27, 2005 | IP
pyrodraconis

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If you make the statement that cloning itself is bad, then any good that comes from cloning is in that way tainted.

If you make the statement that cloning itself is not bad, but the way you use it can be deemed as bad, then it all depends on the way you use it.

If scientists discovered a way to emlimate cancer through genetic engineering, then they should merely need to resequence a pre-existing embryo, it isn't cloning as such.

If you use cloning to replicate a healthy organ to replace one that has been damaged, is that immoral?

If you replicate a complete, yet non-sentient, human for organ harvesting, is that immoral?
Where do you draw the line at how far can we go to produce clones for our needs or desires?

Is it wrong to take life to support another?  If so, then the vast majority of things we eat would suddenly become immoral.
So we draw the line at plant life and non-sentient animal lifeforms.

This begs the next question... What is life?
Theologically speaking, is it wrong to reproduce in any manner other than sexual intercourse?  Some say yes, including methods of artifical insemenation.  Some say if God had not intended for us to discover cloning, then he wouldn't have let it happen.  On the same arguement it could be said, if God had not intended the Animal Protection Services to be formed he wouldn't let some of us torture small animals. (By the way, no, I don't torture small animals)
Theology being what it is, will always come down to each person's personal beliefs and shall therefore be debatable until the end of time.

But I digress...

Say that there was a certain ruler with such an intense megalomania that he thought his personal gene sequence, whatever it was, should be foisted on the entire population.  To this end he had 1000 clones of himself made and turned them loose into the gene pool.  Would that be bad?

It is not merely an issue of wrong to use cloning, the issue in this instance would be the fact he would be forcing people to breed with his clones in order to spread his genes.  With such a ruler, if no-one chose to mate with any or enough of his clones I'd doubt he would sit back and say "Oh well, it's a nice idea while it lasted."  On the contrary, it would be more likely he'd either make it law to mate with his clones, or take other more forcable measures to achieve his ends.  The removal of our rights would be what makes his cloning idea immoral and not the creation of the clones themselves.

The point is that cloning, in and of itself, is just another way to have a baby.  The only difference is that by cloning you assure that the baby will be an identical twin, in all but age, of it's one parent.  Does that concept offend you?

I see it as having no moral content one way or the other.

Creating life be it by natural methods of reproduction or by scientific methods of cloning, should both carry with it a level of responsibility and ownership.  If I were be creating clones left right and centre, merely because I could, then I would be wrong in doing so for I would be demonstrating a lack of responsibility for my actions.

If I created a clone of myself for companionship, then I would still be wrong because I have no right to say to the clone, you are mine designed for me to keep me company.  Any sentient lifeform should have as much liberty and freedom with rights as any being born in the natural order of life.

If by cloning living human beings, we could use them to discover great leaps forward in medical knowledge does that make cloning ok?
Well wouldn't it then depend on how we treated these clones in order to achieve that goal...
Are we creating them to be used as the new scientific-aged guinea pig?
Are we using them to perform experimental operations without fear of loosing a valued loved one?
Are we maintaining their life merely to take their organs when required by natural born humans?
Are we treating them with as much respect and courtesy as any other naturally born human?
Do they have rights?

Some people say that the creation of a clone in some way lessens them.
We all like to think of ourselves as having a unique quality about us that makes us special.
Some say that the creation of clones will increase the quantity of disease and pestilance in world through the cloning of diseased people or those prone to certain ailements.  This may be true for now, though through perfected cloning and genetic resequencing, it would become an issue of the past.

Another issue raised is that cloning coupled with genetic resequencing can render some life secondary and removable.  For example, if an unborn feotus is discovered to have an untreatable genetic 'imperfection' then it may be considered as unsuitable for allowing life to continue.  And then kill it...
How do we know that the child may not have gone on to be the next famous disabled genius, of deaf musician for instance.  There is no limit to the number of unknown variables through out life.  That is the arguement they bring.
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 07:39 AM on December 21, 2005 | IP
    
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