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tsmith2771

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The bloodest day in american history was not 9-11, it was 9-17.  The funny thing is that there is really no mention of it and 99 percent of americans don't even know what it was.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 6:13 PM on September 17, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Battle of Antiniam (sp?), civil war.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:29 PM on September 17, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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id say the nuking of hiroshima is the bloodiest battle... oh and dont forget their capitol
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 8:34 PM on September 17, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Ding Ding Ding, tell dsadevil what he won.  23,000 Americans were killed or injured on this day.  Where is that in the news.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 9:11 PM on September 17, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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ooh i win i win i win! what prize do I get? (btw, constitution was signed today too 215 years ago)


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:12 PM on September 17, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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yay!...but still hiroshima was destroyed and with the capitol is claimed over a million lives... make that i think a million and a half
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 5:31 PM on September 19, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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i think tsmith was referring to American lives. World loss of life goes into another catagory.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 6:35 PM on September 19, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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American history, not world history.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 8:25 PM on September 19, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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oh srry common msitake...lol n/m than yes i think antiniam was the bloodiest in american history
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 9:52 PM on September 21, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Dsadevil gets as a prize one hundred tasty cakes.  :-)


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:37 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
badler007

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ya, i knew that one from actually going to antidam when i was in the maryland region.  some crazy stuff happened there.  some stupid union generals got like all of there men killed trying to take a bridge which easily could have been flanked.  tsk tsk, sounds awfly british to me.


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Willie didn't know!
 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 9:32 PM on October 16, 2002 | IP
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did you know that more union soldiers where killed in the civil war than the south had of male population...its kinda hard to belive but i guess it is true bc the entire war except for gettysburg the south was defending....it also had the best generals bc every westpoint graduate joined the south. Also the confederates never lost a major battle..the only reason sherman burned so much was bc he never encountered any mass of troops just small bands and never an entire army like he had.   its funny that with all this to boot the south still lost ...i guess it is gods will for it to turn out this way right. The primary reason the south lost was bc the north employed a spectacular blockade of southern ports and the south ran out of money and could not get any new supplies from the french due to the blockade(NAPOLEAN was selling weapons to the south bc he wanted cotton from the south and to add an ally to his empire).
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:20 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Gods will?  I don't think god was present anywhere in those 4 years.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 9:04 PM on October 17, 2002 | IP
kc2gwx

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Here are the numbers for the 'Battle of the Bulge'.

"81,000 American casualties, including 23,554 captured and 19,000 killed."

http://www.mm.com/user/jpk/battle.htm

If you go by sheer numbers, this is worse than Antitem.

Do you mean the worst on American soil? If you mean one day, you are correct. But overall, the battle of Gettysburg, which claimed 51,000 total lives.

I'm a war buff, if you couldn't tell...


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 5:22 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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I think antietam was the worst.  I read that in a book and where did you get those stats, they don't add up.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 8:07 PM on October 26, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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antinam was the worst SINGLE DAY. Battle of the Bulge was many days. Oh, and as to the confeds never losing a major battle, Gen. Lee I'm sure wouldnt characterize Gettysburg as a rousing success either.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:25 PM on October 26, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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I knew something didn't seem right with that.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 10:21 PM on October 26, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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no one won at gettysburg both sides retreated and neither gained control so it was a tie bc so many people died that neither had enough forces to hold the area. Gettysburg was the souths only venture onto northern soil this was there only attack.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:08 PM on October 26, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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It is what I'd call a tactical victory for the north. No, the south wasn't routed, but their advance was stopped cold. That's a victory to me.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:05 PM on October 27, 2002 | IP
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I've always wondered why Robert E. Lee and the other leaders of the Confederacy weren't tried and shot for treason after the war.  There is no doubt that they were guilty of treason, why weren't they tried for it?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:55 AM on November 3, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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they were not guilty of anything because it was legal to seceed from the union. Also the confederacy did not start the war the union did by not vacating southern territory (fort summter). also the south was defensive the entire war with the one exception of gettysburg. There would be no way to try them for treason when they broke no laws.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:25 AM on November 3, 2002 | IP
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The definition of treason is:  "Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies."

It is not even debatable that the leaders of the confederacy were guilty of treason.  One of the main causes of the civil war was about whether a state could secede from the Union.  Question:  How man states seceded from the Union?  Answer:  None, in order to secede the south would have had to won the civil war; which they never had the slightest chance of doing.  It is not legal to secede from the union.

The reason they were defensive most of the war was because they did not have the manpower or the supplies to go on the offensive.  Since the south had hardly any heavy industry they really never had a chance.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:36 PM on November 3, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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yes thirteen states seceeded bc the war started about a year after they seceeded. which means that there where two countries for about a year but after fort summpter the war started. If they started anew country then they could not be treasnous to the other country they no longer belonged to.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:12 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
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I was posing this question from the point of view of a citizen of the United States.  Of course they committed treason against the United States and then TRIED to leave the Union but were unsuccessful.  After the civil war was over they again wanted to become citizens of the US since they failed in their attempt to form another country.  At the very least the leaders of the confederacy should not have had their citizenship given back to them, since they obviously had committed treason against the United States by trying to secede.  There were not two countries except in the eyes of those committing treason.  From the point of view of a US citizen there never was any state that seceded since they were unable to win the civil war.

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:50 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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First of all no one TRIED to suceed, they did suceed.  It was perfectly legal by the constitution for a state to leave the union, unlike now.  The leaders of the confederate army commit no acts of treason, they tried to start their own country and failed, they were not a part of the union when the civil war was fought so how could it be treason?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:07 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
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Where in the constitution does it say a state can secede from the union?  And they were a part of the Union when the civil war was fought according to the United States (the winners) since they did not recognize the right to secede.  The only ones who thought they were not part of the union was the confederacy (the losers) who were incorrect since they did not win the war.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:38 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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South Carolina left the union a full year before the civil war, 3 other states followed.  Then after the union didn't leave fort sumter and war broke out, 3 other states then seceeded.  Leaving the union has nothing to do with who won or lost the war.  And after the war was over it wasn't like all the confederate states jumped back into the union, most were not allowed back in for 2 years.  Before the civil war states had the right to leave the union, but fearing another southern revolt, the government made it impossible to do so again.  And how is the confederate army incorrect for the sole reason they lost the war?  Get your facts straight.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 3:19 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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exactly...i could ask you where does it say the states CANT leave. We have the right that is left in the constitution to overthrough a tyrranical government as the writer of the constitution thomas jefferson  wrote in a letter talking about an uprising in Virgina  “Let them take arms, the remedy is to set them to facts, pardon, and pacify them. What signifies a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants” . This shows that the intention was to allow the citizens the ability to rebel.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 3:58 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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id just like to add a fact about gettysburg as to why they did not lose but why it was a tie. this is the story of gettysburg....the confederate soldiers where without shoes for the most part (god bless them) several soldiers got wod that in the town of gettysburg there was a warehouse of new boots, supposed to be supplied to the union soldiers. A group of approximatly fifty soldiers (without orders) decide to go get shoes and return and share the wealth. enroute to the warehouse they encountered union soldiers, a skirmish brike out. The union soldiers heard the firing and directed their men to go help out bc they thought the confederacy (god bless them) was advancing. several confederate spotters and scouts spotted the troop movements and sent word back to superiors. So the south followed suite (without orders from General Lee or stone wall jackson) to send troops.  to sum it up cause i dont feel like typing it out an irate Robert E. LEE (god bless him) finally got involved but chose a bad leader to direct artillery fire, the confederacy had on lookers from france and engand watching the battle which they didnt want to happen bc they where waiting to be attacked instead of attacking so they could impreess the foreigners and get support from them for trade with cotton (since india was the other cotton king and it was so far away) they wanted to be attacked so as always they could kick the butts of the union sodiers (which believe it or not they always did). Unfortunatly they did not win or lose but rather tied, both sides retreated and the south did not win support from either country bc they did not want to take a chance on losing money. but the southerners did raid the factory later that night and got the shoes anyways.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:59 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
llad12

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Madbilly,

Thats not quite right on the Battle of Gettysburg...

The battle took place over three days.

July 1-3  1863

Stonewall Jackson was mortally wounded (by friendly fire) in the Battle of Chancellorsville in May 1863.

On July 1, two of Lee's divisions approaching from the north and west ran into Bufords calvary just outside of Gettysburg...fierce fighting raged all day with the Union forces retreating back from the town to Missionary ridge late in the day...the Confederates occupied Gettysburg by the end of the day (and probably got their shoes then)

On July 2,  Lee attacked and attempted to flank fortified Union positions at Devil's Den, the Wheatfield, and Little and Big Round Top Hills...the attacks were unsuccessful in gaining the high ground with both sides suffering high casualties

On July 3, Lee ordered an attack on the center of the Union lines by three divisions consisting of approx 15,000 men  Two divisions were from A P Hills Corp and one division (Picketts) from Longstreet's Corp... the battle started with the cannonade that you sort of discussed and culminated in a charge by the infantry into the Union line.  It was repelled at great cost of life for the Confederates

Lee retreated back into Virginia the next day and was on the defensive for the remainder of the war.

Meade, the commander of the army of the Potomac, did not pursue Lee.  This inaction was to later cost his command as Lincoln relieved him and turned the command over to US Grant

This was a Union Victory by all standards of warfare.  The Union forces held the battleground and Lee retreated.

I'd suggest that you read the book "Killer Angels" for further info...or rent the "Gettysburg" tape (based on the book)




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R. K. Baker
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 2:30 PM on January 7, 2003 | IP
ghettocracka

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Just watch the movie Gettysburg.  It explains everything.  Any movie as long as it is has to explain everything.

And madbilly, like llad said, stonewall was dead by Gettysburg and replaced by Ewell.


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Dave C
 


Posts: 48 | Posted: 2:25 PM on January 18, 2003 | IP
jeafl

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In determining the day the blodiest day in American history we must first define the term American.  I have at least 3 great-great-great grandfathers who served in the Army of Northern Virginia.  However, I choose not to pay homage to treason and I honor no traitor.   Anyone who supported the Confederate government or served in the confederate armed forces forfeited all right to be called an American.  Confederate casualty figures should not be included in American civil war statistics.
 


Posts: 12 | Posted: 12:54 PM on May 10, 2003 | IP
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You know what Lincoln was are best president ever


ur a jackass ur mofo shut the fuck up
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:34 PM on May 22, 2003 | IP
jared00004

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Lincold sucks


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Jared
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 02:25 AM on June 23, 2003 | IP
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Well said Ilad....

The North did not retreat, Meade--like his Federal predecessors--did not pursue.

Now, on the issue of secession (which I know is off topic)... you can't look to the Constitution for the right to secede.  All you get is Article IV and the tenth amendment:  You can't argue Article IV section 3, clause 2 respecting United States Property (i.e. Fort Sumter).  Perhaps Section 4, dealing with protection from invasion but that has to be considered after the firing on Fort Sumter, not before.  Both Lincoln and Davis knew this which is why neither wanted to be the first to fire a shot (way to go governor of South Carolina and Beauregard).  Likewise, the 10th Amendment only deals with the powers to be exercised by the states instead of by the nation, but not the right to secede.

Also, South Carolina did not secede and hold its independence for a full year before the war, but only 3-1/2 months from late December 1860 to April 14, 1861 during the administration of Buchanan who, while not recognizing a right to secede, did nothing so as to leave it as Lincoln's problem in March.  

Anyways, the real topic... Single bloodiest day?  Easy:  Antietam (Sharpsburg), followed by Shiloh (Pittsburg Landing).  Bloodiest 20 minutes?  Cold Harbor.

Battle of the Bulge is likely to be the bloodiest battle (I don't have figures in front of me), but I will dismiss Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the following reasons:  
   1)  Upon impact, the death tolls were approximately 75,000 and 30,000 respectively.  Injuries were about 90-100,000 total.  I will concede that due to radiological effects, some (perhaps many) lived out shorter lifespans, but I cannot conceivable grant that the casualties were greater than their prewar populations as the 1-1.5 million would do.
   2)  That gets into a world history perspective (although U.S. history in the 20th century is world history) but, the Soviets lost 500,000 in the Battle of Stalingrad alone.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:57 AM on December 15, 2003 | IP
XC girl

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Actually Gettysburg was the bloodiest day in history however it was a three day battle. This battle caused more deaths than all the battles us Americans have fought in cobined

These are some of the battle-
the entire civil war(except Gettysburg)
The Mexican War,
The Revolutionary war,
WWI
WWII
the veitnam war,
and the iraq war that is happening now


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R3B2
 


Posts: 14 | Posted: 5:42 PM on April 16, 2010 | IP
    
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