PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Politics Debates
     our founding fathers...

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
rv581

|     |       Report Post




Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

from www.laststory.com


“Liberals, Slavery, and our Founding Fathers"
If you’ve spent any degree of time in the company of a white-male-bashing, holier-than-thou liberal literati—and God knows there’s no shortage of these leftwing sh*t-stains—you’ve undoubtedly heard Captain Sensitivity talking smack about the Founding Fathers of the United States of America… that is, when he’s not putting ‘peace signs’ on the back of his Volvo van or munching on some pesticide-free Granola bars.  His usual gripe falls along the lines of, “Sure, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington wrote ‘All men are created equal’ but they somehow overlooked blacks, Indians, women, slaves, Hispanics, and non-landowners.  What a bunch of arrogant hypocrites!  Our Founding Fathers were nothing more than a group of wealthy white slave owners—who wanted to be free!”  And lately, these ex-hippie pseudo-intellectuals are speaking louder and bolder than ever before.

The opinion of Last Story?  These revisionist c*cks*ckers are out of their tie-dyed-colored minds.

Folks, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington were genius revolutionaries of the highest possible order who transformed the very fabric of the world—and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.  These Founding Fathers were exceptional intellectuals, brilliant scholars, and American patriots who drafted the master plan for the world’s first democracy since Ancient Greece—and Professor Tolerance wants to bust their balls over slavery?  Listen, societal evolution develops slowly.  It doesn’t happen overnight.  And you gotta keep in mind that American luminaries such as Washington and Adams were only born about 250 years after Columbus proved the world wasn’t flat.

Condemning our Founding Fathers over slavery is akin to chastising Jonas Salk for not also curing cancer—or blaming Neil Armstrong for not also walking on Mars.

And let’s face facts—the American public simply wasn’t ready for anything more drastic.  I mean, imagine if old Ben Franklin hobbled before his fellow patriots, stood before the podium, and bellowed: “Well, okey dokey, boys… Right after we overthrow the English crown, defeat the most powerful nation on earth—despite not having a real military of our own, risk our lives in battle and potentially HANG for treason… and right after we establish the modern world’s first representative democracy—complete with an elected president with limited, enumerated powers—and right after we become the ONLY nation in history to guarantee its people the inalienable right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom of religion, jury trials, freedom of expression, a free press, the right to bare arms, and protection from unreasonable searches and seizures… let’s free all the slaves!  In fact, let’s make it legal for N*gger Joe out in the cotton field to own weapons and marry our daughters!  Are you with me?”

For Christ’s sake, old Ben Franklin would’ve gotten laughed off the stage and sent to a nut house.  The American people themselves—not just the Founding Fathers—weren’t ready for anything that sweeping.  The bottom line is, our Founding Fathers did an amazing job at pushing the envelope as far as they did—don’t condemn them for failing to also establish harmony among all the races.

Look around, guys.  We were still barring interracial marriages and actively practicing government-sanctioned segregation in the 1960s—nearly 200 years after the American Revolution began.  So cut Jefferson, Madison, and Washington some slack, will ya?  Racism isn’t an easy problem to solve… and I don’t know if you noticed it or not, but it’s still a major problem in the world today.  Remember, our revolutionaries lived in a time when doctors used leaches and dentists distributed wooden dentures.  During the 1700s, the only forms of government on the face of the planet were monarchies, dictatorships, theocracies, and nomadic tribal rule.  It was in this cultural backdrop that these “wealthy white land owners” risked their wealth, lives, and land, exhibited amazing courage and tenacity, demonstrating an unheard of faith in their fellow man.  They voluntarily forfeited power upon winning the Revolutionary War because of their ideals, namely the divine right of man to live free from the shackles of government tyranny.  No, they didn’t create a Utopia, but they came closer than anyone before them and designed the blueprint that inspired everyone that came after them—and they should have their collective @sses kissed for doing so.  No one at Last Story is saying that the institution of slavery was a good thing; obviously, it was an evil of ungodly proportions.  But the ideals behind the American Revolution—along with the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and the Bill of Rights—were the greatest quantum leap in societal evolution since the advent of The Holy Scriptures.  And that’s not hyperbole, boys and girls.  The ripple effects of the Revolutionary War still reverberate around the farthest reaches of the globe.

Any of these elitist liberals who systematically attack our Founding Fathers for being “ethnocentric” or lacking sufficient “enlightenment” is a pretentious hack who missed the point.



(Edited by admin 12/4/2002 at 01:34 AM).
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 2:24 PM on December 2, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

This whole post is a complete piece of horse sh*t.  This person has no ideas of their own, they just copy from another source.  Come on rv581 tell us what you think, not what some obiously right wing whacko site thinks.  Probably like most right wing nut cases you've never had an original idea in your life.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:06 AM on December 3, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

what was all that crap?


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:48 AM on December 3, 2002 | IP
rv581

|     |       Report Post




Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from Guest at 12:06 AM on December 3, 2002 :
This whole post is a complete piece of horse sh*t.  This person has no ideas of their own, they just copy from another source.  Come on rv581 tell us what you think, not what some obiously right wing whacko site thinks.  Probably like most right wing nut cases you've never had an original idea in your life.  




I'm curious why you'd think that only a right wing "whacko" would enjoy an editorial that supports the brilliance of our founding fathers???

Is it a particularly conservative position to believe that Washington, Madison, and Jefferson were brilliant men who should be admired for all they accomplished?  If so, please explain what a "moderate" position would be.
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 8:09 PM on December 3, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

conservatives like rv581 really piss me off


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:05 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
hooyah

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Oh, here we go again!

Why does every topic get turned into Liberal vs. Conservative War?


-------
A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 02:35 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

This is just a knee jerk reaction. People get overly defensive when they feel they are being attacked, so this guy endulges himself in a nice rant. The founding fathers were both brillaint and hypocritical. Why is that hard to accept? It is not a hypocrisy that destroys their work in any means, but it is also not a brilliance bright enough to absolve them completely.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 10:17 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Hmm, that isn't even a conservative site. More like a tabloid than anything with some ranting thrown in. The site has a list of celebrities on it with their personalities, and my favorite, the news story that links to teenhollywood.com.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 10:27 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

beavis, who were u referring to when u said "this guys endulges himself in a nice rant"?


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 09:04 AM on December 6, 2002 | IP
rv581

|     |       Report Post




Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from beavischrist at 10:27 PM on December 5, 2002 :
Hmm, that isn't even a conservative site. More like a tabloid than anything with some ranting thrown in. The site has a list of celebrities on it with their personalities, and my favorite, the news story that links to teenhollywood.com.


Exactly.  It's not part of any "rightwing conspiracy".  www.laststory.com SAYS it's "Your non-P.C. online entertainment magazine."

Don't take this stuff so seriously.  I posted the article not to advance the republican party, but because I thought it was a provocative editorial that others would enjoy.

Sheesh.
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 1:38 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
hooyah

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

For what its worth....
I think our founding fathers did an excellent job considering all the obstacles they had to overcome and the situation they were facing at the time.

The deal with slavery....
If our original Constitution would have made slavery illegal, the Southern States would have never joined the union.  and there would thus be no America.

The South would've probably started their own Nation, which would constantly be at war with the Potomac.

The goal at the time was to bring everyone together and compromise--something that almost never happens in this forum--but then again that's what makes it so fun....

Way to go Founding Fathers!


-------
A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 6:47 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
Havah

|       |       Report Post




Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I don't think there were many slaves in America at that time, and especially not African ones.  The slaves they had then would have been Native American, and the constitution doesn't say anything directly towards them.  My question is, why would they know to stop slavery then if it wasn't even a huge problem at that time?  Sure it's wrong, and we can look back on it as such, but they were setting up the basic fundamentals of  what they wanted the country to be like.  Look at how vague the rest of the Constitution is.  They could not, and should not have covered every little detail then because that's why all the other democracies failed.  They were too detailed and things changed and it was too difficult to alter their constitutions.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 15 | Posted: 11:28 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
Havah

|       |       Report Post




Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

my boyfriend just so kindly informed me that I was completely off, and that they did have African slaves as early as the 1600's which shows you what an opinionated history-ignorant will do.  I apologize and am very embarrassed, so please forgive me.  I still think that it's good that the founding fathers made the consitution so vague. (I know a tiny tiny bit more about politics than I do history).


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 15 | Posted: 12:20 AM on December 7, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Ok, good. Thank your boyfriend. I was about to ask you what you were talking about.
And I was talking about the guy who wrote the article this thread is about.

I agree that the founders did a bang up job, and that makes sense that if they had outlawed slavery it may not have worked. It is the little things that make me sad, though. For example, Jefferson said during life that his slaves would be freed when he died but they were not.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:38 AM on December 7, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

There is no doubt that the founding fathers were among the elite of this young nation and were exceptional intellects by any standard.  But, however brilliant they were the founders do not deserve to be historically recast as saints.  They were quite human and had many problems.  They owned slaves, denied women the right to vote, committed atrocities against native americans and made clearly anti-semitic statements.  The government they created was not really of the people; it was of rich, white, male landowners.  Although they created a Bill of Rights guaranteeing individual freedoms, this document was not seriously enforced for 130 years afterwards.  For example, the press was frequently censored for seditious material, and it was not until the early 20th century that the supreme court heard its first case on free speech.

The founders personal lives were filled with the same problems that plague current politicians, and probably even worse.  Vice President Aaron Burr shot and killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel.  Thomas Jefferson fathered an illegitimate child with a slave.  There are many more examples of these type problems.  Much of what we learn about the founding fathers is more myth than truth.  Like the story about George Washington cuting down a cherry tree and then admiting to his father "I cannot tell a lie."  That story itself is not true only myth.

We should praise the founders for their revolutionary new approach to democratic government.  But to turn them into saints incapable of error, atrocity, immorality or faulty judgment is clearly un warranted.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:28 AM on December 7, 2002 | IP
hooyah

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Nobody said that they were saints.

They just did what they had to do.

I, also, agree that it is good that our Constitution is vague.  But have you noticed that throughout history, it is becoming less and less vague?

It's starting to sound more like statutory laws, rather than a constitution.


-------
A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 8:47 PM on December 7, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

They did what they had to do?
What an absolutely useless statement.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:00 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

slavery should never be justified


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:30 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
hooyah

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

who's justifying it?

And "They did what they had to do" was a reference to what I had already said. I didn't think that I'd need to repeat it.


-------
A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 11:55 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Broker

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Liberals do have that little problem of bashing our founding fathers.

Slavery was an accepted thing in those days. It would have torn the unon apart, as mentioned before, to eliminate it. The only educated people back then were those evil white landowners with slaves...

Those same founding fathers wrote the constitution... without them I wouldn't be surprised if your speech was censored. They weren't perfect, but look at what they accomplished.

(Edited by Broker 12/9/2002 at 4:46 PM).


-------
Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 4:36 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from Broker at 5:36 PM on December 9, 2002 :
Liberals do have that little problem of bashing our founding fathers.


And conservatives have that little problem of worshiping them like Gods. Point?
Besides, I don't know if it can be argued that America would have been worse off with out the south included. I know I'd prefer to live with out its reactionary conservatism. If the south didn't join I'd be laughing at them right now as the struggled to get out of the 18th century.



-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:18 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

good point dsa. and slavery wasnt "accepted" by everyone in those days. there were many abolitionists at the time. but the founding fathers ignored them. there is no excuse.


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 8:48 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

The reason they were ignored was because the founding fathers themselves owned slaves.  And DSA you know what is coming next.  How in the hell could you think america would be better off without the south.  I know of no other region in america that is more proud of who we are but then again I don't know of an area that is more biased about other areas of the nation.  Its to late and I am seeing crossed eyed right now so I'll finish this tomorrow.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 06:03 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I doubt anyone can accuse the south of being anti-patriotic. But the north and south are political opposites. Both would move in a direction they liked better had they had been seperate


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:10 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
hooyah

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

speaking of biased...

Those of you 'South-bashers' are probably from the North...

Anyway, is this debate turning into "who contributed more to building America, North or South?"


-------
A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 10:23 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

no no no. I apologize for ever making the comment. This is one tangent I'd prefer to head off at the start. Its too divisive.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:39 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i have lived in north carolina and i'm a "south-basher"


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:50 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
madbilly

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

and i would love to see you "bash" me to my face while trying to take my guns away...that would be a big mistake. You would then become a statistic to add to the Brady horse shit campaign against the constitution


-------
my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:33 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from madbilly at 11:33 PM on December 10, 2002 :
and i would love to see you "bash" me to my face while trying to take my guns away...that would be a big mistake. You would then become a statistic to add to the Brady horse shit campaign against the constitution


Please don't let this turn into the debate of who is better, the north or south cause neither could survive without the other.





-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 04:07 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Just remember who finally ended slavery.

I'm not worshipping the founding fathers as Gods, either. They built the greatest nation on Earth, so I'd think people wouldn't always be attacking them.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 07:28 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

sometimes i wonder if this country is still the greatest nation on earth. ever since we abandoned isolationism, our country has become a pain in the neck for every other country in the world. we need to return back to the policies that once made our country so great.


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:04 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
hooyah

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

LOL Madbilly,....you are Southern-made thru and thru...
I'm proud that our president is from my state.  I thought that was so cool when he drove Putin around in his pickup truck....


-------
A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 11:58 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
madbilly

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I loved that too... putin in a large gas guzzling pick up truck made in america yekomon (yeah come on)


-------
my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:57 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

This nation is not perfect but it is still the greatst. Name anothernation that is any better. And Texas all the way !!! i have lived in texas and then in Santa Cruz CA the most liberal place in the world nd it drives me crazy



-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 4:59 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Pie

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

*names Canada*
 



-------
A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 6:56 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Sweden could make a run. So could Norway. And Denmark.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 01:12 AM on December 29, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

any socialist country can


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 01:25 AM on December 29, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quotes

That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
-Thomas Jefferson

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-Thomas Paine, "Common Sense", 1776

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
-George Washington

This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."
-Abraham Lincoln

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Voltaire
[color=navy][/color]
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:31 PM on October 15, 2003 | IP
rakishyouth

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You are an intellectual coward.  Your argument is grounded in the central claim that, because of the long time it takes for new ideas to emerge in society, the founding fathers can't possibily be blamed for not dealing with the slavery issue.  That would make sense if the fathers, like you claim, had not yet come to moral grips with slavery.  Guess what?.  Wasn't the case at all.  All of the "classic founders", from Washinton to Adams to especially Hamilton to Madison to even Jefferson bemoaned the moral injustice of slavery.  It was a common theme of the time to view the blood of the revolution as, in many ways, God's punishment for the sin of slavery.  So, why didn't they fight against slavery?  It's not because they weren't enlightened, as you ingnorantly claim.  It is because in order to build a coalition capable of revolting aginst the biggest country in the world in 76, they needed every state on board, including southern states who would only have joined the cause on the condition that slavery not be touched.  The same exact phenomenon occured in 87.  If it weren't for the founding fathers being silent on slavery, the constitution would never have been ratified.  In your pig-headed comments, you go on some creepily weird attack against liberals who find the fathers to be hypocritical.  That the founders were hypocritical isn't a biased viewpoint but a historical fact.  What could be more hypocritical than bashing slavery verbally yet doing nothing to actually stop it? But the founders had to be hypocritical to gain the consensus they needed for the revolution and the constitituion.  So part of their genius, ironically, was in their hypocrisy.  Was what they did moral?  No.  But if they hadn't compromised their moral views, this country would not exist.

A tip for the next time you post.  Write about something you comprehend.  


-------
--
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 1:51 PM on July 9, 2005 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.