PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Religon Debates
     The Mother Teresa Question

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

The church has done wonderful things, no doubt. It has also done atrocious things (burning "heretics," killing native americans, perpetuating imperialism etc.). I am not convinced that had christianity never appeared as a world religion that the net effect would not have been that the world would be better than it is now. As alex stated, the good deeds done by the church can and are  repeated by secular organizations. The harms and brutal massacres have mostly not (The holocaust being one GAPING exception. But only one).


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:43 PM on October 29, 2002 | IP
madbilly

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

also add to that all the soviets killed by josph satlin...once again ill say that the "atrocoties" committed by christians are from the catholics not the protestants. The inqusition was from the pope and so where the crusades and every atroscity you mention.


-------
my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:29 PM on October 29, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Martin Luther advocated killing all jews. He was one of the most anti-semetic men ever to walk the earth. Today, it is protestants and not catholics that advocate the most anti-jewish legislation (school prayer, religious moments of silence, etc.). Also the holocaust was in a mostly protestant nation, and they did stand idly by in that atrocity.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:54 PM on November 3, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

this is a ridiculous comparison. you cannot bring up stalin and the holocaust and have this remain a logical analogy. I was originally saying there is no need for religion, and religious people countered by saying no, we do so much good. and then we said so what, more secular groups do good. now, the proper comparison is between charitable religious groups good and charitable secular groups. nazis are not a charitable organization. are there many charitable secular organizations that have wreaked the kind of havoc religious ones have? I think not. the point is obvious. if you see the bad things as a negative number and the good things as a positive number, i say that if you add up religions, and you independently add up the total number comparable secular groups's positives and negatives, religion's sum will be a negative number, and secularism will be positive. i hope that made sense to people. it's just moving up and down the number scale.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:01 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

this is a ridiculous comparison. you cannot bring up stalin and the holocaust and have this remain a logical analogy. I was originally saying there is no need for religion, and religious people countered by saying no, we do so much good. and then we said so what, more secular groups do good. now, the proper comparison is between charitable religious groups good and charitable secular groups. nazis are not a charitable organization. are there many charitable secular organizations that have wreaked the kind of havoc religious ones have? I think not. the point is obvious. if you see the bad things as a negative number and the good things as a positive number, i say that if you add up religions, and you independently add up the total number comparable secular groups's positives and negatives, religion's sum will be a negative number, and secularism will be positive. i hope that made sense to people. it's just moving up and down the number scale.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:06 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
Sakata

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

If you had any evidence for this Alex, you would find you are wrong.  We kick God out of this world but he is the first to be blamed when things go wrong.


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:25 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i dont subscribe to the "blame god" theory. but i do subscribe to the "religious conflicts cause alot of lifes problems theory." If there is a god, it isnt his/her/its fault. But its followers certainly can be blamed


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:29 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
Sakata

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I have a question Dsa, what makes you a jew?


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:31 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

well, first i was born that way. but then for awhile i did question why i was jewish, considering that the bible seemed to me to be an immoral contradiction. But then, I researched further, and found that the jewish faith and people fit quite closely with my progressive ideals, and has nearly always been at the forefront of fights for liberty and justice. It is a small, select, group that I am proud to be part of.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:50 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
Sakata

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

born that way? so because your father/mother was a jew that means you are?  Do you go to a church or synogouge or something?  Do you believe the bible is the word of God? And if you dont believe that Jesus died and payed for your sins why arnt you out sacraficing animals and such?


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 12:19 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

evidence? a few negatives on the scorecard  for religion: crusades, inquisition, forced conversions, middle east conflict, muslim conquests, colonialism, bound feet, Taliban (and everyone else like 'em), KKK, centuries of repressed governments in all regions (divine right of kings in Europe, caliphates in middle east), intra-state conflicts (civil wars such as in Sudan between Muslims and Christians)...today: many of the same things, and in America, religion forces its hand on government decisions, keeping gays second class citizens, stopping stem cell research that could change people's lives and save others...now if you can point to a time when peace corps, or UNICEF butchered hundreds of thousands of people, or held millions of people in bondage for hundreds of years, you let me know.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 01:09 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I am realizing how futile this is. Everyone know the cave allegory from Plato's Republic? Everyone lives in this cave, and has never been out. they live their whole lives tied up, facing a cave wall, unable to turn their heads. all they ever see is shadows imposed on the wall by the fire behind them. now if one should escape, and go out of the cave, and see the "light", they might eventually realize that this new thing is reality, whereas before he was blind. now if he went down to rescue the others, they would think him crazy and resist being taken up to the light. they might even kill him to protect their perception of reality. this si the classic allegory for the difficulty (perhaps even impossibility) that a "philosopher-king" has in trying to impart wisdom onto those too stubborn to accept the possibility of any new version of the truth. so it is the same with discussing religion. we atheists and agnostics are using logic, and you are hiding behind faith, the biggest cop in human history. you spend all this time trying to debunk evolution and science and everthing, but you never are willing to turn the same instruments of inspection onto yourselves. religion is supposed to be this great introspective process, but it seems totally devoid of any desire to pursue truth. i know you will jump on this and say "It's my belief, and it has changed me, and I know I can't defend it, but it makes me so warm and fuzzy..." big whoop. science is not perfect, by definition it never can be. evolution is flawed, of course it is. but we use science to learn more and more. religion abandons this process, because it thinks it already knows all those most important truths. humanity is not perfect, democracy is not perfect. Christianity claims to be about improving ourselves, trying to get back to a state of grace lost when adam munched on some fruit, but it is totally stagnant. religion IS Linus' blanket. humanism and secularism are driving the world into the future, and it is a fear of this that makes people fly planes into buildings, and try to amend the constitution to federally ban gay marriage. I am not equating the moral callousness of these things, but yes i am lumping them together in the same disgusting, selfish, and inhumane category of resistance to change that is good for humanity and the earth.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 01:31 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
Prometheus

|     |       Report Post




Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Great points Alex, but you are right it is futile to try to convince fundamentalist anything. ( I seperate fundamentalism and Christianity, because I believe what you are dealing with here is fundamentalism not Christianity.)  They have no real views of their own.  In regard to virtually everything that is important in life, they must try to discover what they think God would like them to do, and then must do his bidding.  For a person to be a fundamentalist and to be an independent thinker is impossible.  Fundamentalism and independent thinking are contradictory terms.

Tolerance is a trait that a fundamentalist cannot possbily possess.  Whatever they think God says must be asbolutely, positively true to them; and whatever any other person or group that does not agree with them believes must be absolutley, positively false.  They believe that any commands , as they interpt them, given by God must be strictly obeyed; and that anyone who disobeys them is completely evil.  Once they believe God has spoken, there is no appeal from his arbitrary authority and they are clearly not open to change and must necessarily be bigoted to those who do not completely agree.

Any time a fundamentalist establishes a dictate from God, they can no longer use empirical evidence to question those dictates, since they are by definition beyond scientific validation; since they are from a God that they initially accepted on faith.

Fundamentalist can not live with an uncertain world.  Instead of healthfully admitting that you really don't need certainity, they stubbornly protect their beliefs, by insisting that there must be the kind of certainity that they foolishly believe that they need.  


-------
"There are seven sins in the world: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, and politics without principle." --Mahatma Gandhi
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 08:35 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Sakata did you even read my post? I said I was born jewish, then questioned it, then researched it and decided that I agreed with it. In otherwords, currently I am not Jewish b/c my parents are, but rather b/c it represents values I believe in and a history I am proud to be associated with.
I do not think the Bible is the single, absolute, word-for-word diction of God, hence why I don't own slaves or sacrifice cuddly animals. I believe religion was intended to help people live their lives in a moral fashio, doing unto others as you wish they would do to you. While I agree with alex that religion has often failed miserably in this attempt, by using the bible not as a literal message but rather as an overall guiding theme, and discounting the clearly immoral provisions in it, i try and live my life as best i can, without becoming a dogmatic fundamentalist with no respect for outside opinions and religions.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 11:22 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

  DSA, do you believe God created the world? If so, surely you can believe that He is perfectly capable of creating a Book that perfectly represents His purpose and calling for us humans. One thing I am having a hard time understanding, is how any one who doesn't believe in a Creator, can claim their conclusions are based on logic!? So, how often does nothing accidentally turn into everything?! The only explanation is a Ultamite Spiritual being that is a different type of being all together.
A=things according to the flesh (our 5 senses will be able to detect them at all times if within reach)
B=Things beyond our original 5 senses            ( specifically a Creator and the spiritual realm)  

I know that "A" exists. I know that "A" must have a beginning. I have been able to notice that all things according to the nature of "A" deteriate through the process of time. "A" cannot account for the original manifestation of time. I have never observed "A" spontaneously creating "A" before "A" ever existed. (theoretically differs from spontaneous generation) Therefore it is beyond any explanation accredited to "A", AND IS ONLY PLAUSABLE, TO THE REASONABLE MIND, to rationalize a Supreme Being. "B" remians the only plausable answer.    
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:40 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Hey Alex,

   Go check out the "Jesus fullfiling Bible Prophesy" forum. God has given us evidence, but still wants us to choose Him.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:43 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

faith and reason/logic are truly not so far apart. Faith in the creator is perfectly logical and reasonable.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 6:00 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

The major premise of the argument "everything had a cause" is contrradicted by the conclusion that " God did no have a cause".  You can't have it both ways.  If everything had to have a cause, then there could not be a first cause.  If it is possible to think of god as uncaused, then it is possible to think the same of the universe.

Someone observing that all effects need a cause, assert that god is a cause but not an effect.  But no one has ever observed an uncaused cause and simply inventing one merely assumes what the argument whishes to prove.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:50 AM on December 28, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

No I don't believe God created the world. I definetely don't believe he is perfect. As he is described in the Tanach, I think he is egotistical, vengeful, and at best split between good and evil. So he is not perfect, in my view.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 01:34 AM on December 29, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

wow seems to me your faith is on a wee bit o' shaky ground the Dsa. Oh and i did some research on the 72 syllable(sp) name of God and it is solely Jewish mysticism, if you know better could you point me to some research please.  

and Just becaue we can not comprehend God or what he is or when he is or where he is doesn't mean he does not exist. Just beacus i can't explain God's being before time doesn't mean that he did not exist.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 10:47 AM on December 29, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

How is it shaky to think God is not perfect and all good? It seems reasonable to me. If God is all, then he is at least part evil. And that part has manifested itself on numerous occasions (see the book of Job, book of exodus).
The 72 syllabel thing is articulated most deeply in the Kabbalah, which is the book of Jewish mysticism. But it is considered a legitimate source of authority as well (for Jewish matters anyway). We think our mystics are uber-cool!
It is impossible to say God does or does not exist. It is all faith. Trying to "prove" it is like saying that the faith isn't enough.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 3:14 PM on December 29, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

 All men, on their own, fall short of understanding. We imagine that our intellect is enough to comprehend God's all soverign nature, but this is not the case.  Understanding is granted to those who humbly accept there incapability to reason of God's nature, and accept Christ as their Savior. For any man who has become united with Christ, now has recieved the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:16) When anyone becomes born of God (John 1:12) He can now see the spiritual battle, and the intellectual perspective on all things, therefore wisdom is granted.  In Him alone remians life.
                            Benjamin
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:02 PM on December 29, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

In other words: "I feel guilty to question God, so I'll just say I don't have the right to." In Judaism we have the opposite tradition. We are SUPPOSED to question God. Anybody remember Abraham? In fact, a group of orthodox rabbis in Russia (the center of Jewish life in europe in the 19th century) put God on trial and found him guilty of breaking the covenant and crimes against humanity. We should question God. It isn't just our right, its our duty.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:09 PM on December 29, 2002 | IP
Broker

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I think you could all sit here and argue about this for years, but I don't think you would ever get anywhere.


-------
Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 9:54 PM on December 29, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

People HAVE been arguing over this for years and gotten nowhere


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:34 PM on December 29, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Actually I was saying that when you are in Christ, you don't need to question God. When you become one of God's children, you are able to understand the things of God.               (I Corinthians 2:16)  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:18 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

If being one with Christ means I "understand" God murdering innocents (and I mean him personally, see Exodus and Job), then I prefer to maintain my independence thanks.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:28 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

   God is always trying to do everything He can to save as many people as possible, and when His love flows through your life, you understand that.  later, DSA
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:36 PM on January 1, 2003 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

My faith in God's love kinda went out the window when I learned how my relatives died in the holocaust. It also gets knocked around abit when I read the bible. I will say it again: God is not good. I will not accept that God is all good. I will not become a docile sheep of an egomaniac. That is something that, I, as an observant jew, will never do.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:05 PM on January 1, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

   I cannot explain everything about the Kingdom, words struggle to begin to express the might of God, but I can say that He is more than willing to satisfy all who need truth. He is the Love that has taken me, the grace which pulls at all men's hearts. Let not the attack's of the enemy take your strength, but stand in the midst of anguish. For who can help their loved one's when we ourselves are distressed? So let the Lord be your guide.

   DSA, I know that the burrows of life hurt. I have seen many dark places, and I am still standing.  God is fair and just, and desires for all to experience His love. For I don't believe that any amount of evil can compare to the love He shows just one of His children.  If you can just stand in the midst of this temporary battle, just trust God.        
             Benjamin, a servent in Love
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:50 AM on January 2, 2003 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You think God is good based on your personal experience and biblical interpretation. I think he bad based on MY personal experience and biblical interpretation. Any reason why I should give you the benefit of the doubt? I think the historical evidence slightly favors me.
I dont want to be satisfied, I want God to be just. He acts just to mankind, and mankind will return the favor. Until then, he hasn't earned my love.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:57 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

  God is good regardless of anyone's "personal interpretation". If someone is actually so selfish that they dare to try to compete with God's soverign nature , they are simply worshiping themselves as an idol! There is absolute truth in Jesus Christ, and this passive, hinduistic behavior will not last much longer. Judgement is coming.
                            Benjamin
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:58 PM on January 29, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"There is absolute truth in Jesus Christ, and this passive, hinduistic behavior will not last much longer. Judgement is coming."


So when you can't convince the man to believe as you believe you resort to threats? Interesting....
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:27 PM on February 23, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

        I remain consistant in Truth in all points. If someone approached me with a certian disease, absolutely uninformed, I would be abliged to brief them on all the aspects of reality. I would tell them that they may die if they continue, but also that they have the opportunity to be healed, there is a cure. Sin is a disease, and I will continue to declare the complete truth in regards to the true circumstances. Thank you for your concern.
              -Benjamin
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:46 PM on February 26, 2003 | IP
    
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.