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       is the holy trinity a biblical teaching?

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Concerning what it says in John 17:3, and the relating verses, such as Ephesians 4:13, Philippians 1:9, 1Timothy 2:4, 2Peter 3:18, 1Timothy 6:20, all talking about knowledge, it clearly shows accurate knowledge is what must be learned from the bible, Jesus said in prayer that it "means everlasting life." So is there such a thing as the holy trinity?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:36 AM on May 1, 2003 | IP
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YES IT IS TRUE, TRY THE BIBLE ANSWERMAN .COM LOTS OF ANSWERS THERE!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:49 PM on May 1, 2003 | IP
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Jesus himself said the "Farther is greater than i am" (john 14:28) also the word trinity or any hint of it is not found in the bible.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:18 AM on May 2, 2003 | IP
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Is It Clearly a Bible Teaching?

If the trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistantly presented in the bible. Why? Because, as the apostles affirmed, the bible is God's revelation of himself to mankind. and since we need to know God to worship him acceptably, the bible should be clear in telling us just who he is.

First-century believers accepted the scriptures as the authentic revelation of God. It was the basis for their beliefs, the final authority. For example, when the apostle Paul preached to people in the city of Beroea, "they recieved the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so."-Acts 17:10,11.

What did prominent men of God at that time use as their authority? Acts 17:2,3 tells us: "According to Pauls custom... he reasoned with them from the scriptures, explaining and proving by references (from the scriptures)."

Jesus himself set the example in using the scriptures as a basis for his teaching, repeatedly saying: "it is written." "He interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the scriptures."-Matthew 4:4,7; Luke 24:27

Thus Jesus, Paul, and the first century believers used the scriptures as the foundation for there teaching. They knew that "All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competant, compleatly equipt for every good work."-2 timothy 3:16,17; see also 1cor. 4:6; 1thess. 2:13; 2pet. 1:20,21.

Since the bible can "set things straight," it should clearly reveal information about a matter as fundamental as the Trinity is claimed to be.

       Trinity "Proof Texts"

It is said that some Bible texts offer proof in support of the trinity. However, when reading such texts, we should keep in mind that the biblical and historical evidence does not support the trinity.

Any Bible reference offered as proof must be understood in the context of the consistant teaching of the entire bible. Very often the true meaning of such a text is clarified by the context of the surrounding verses.

The new catholic Encyclopedia offers three such "proof texts" but also admits: "the doctrine of the holy trinity is not taught in the old testament. In the new Testament the oldest evidence is in the Pauline epistles, especially 2 cor. 13:13 (verse 14 in some bibles), and 1 cor 12:4-6. In the gospels evidence of the trinity is found explicitly only in the baptismal formula of Matt. 28:19"

In those verses the three "persons" are listed as follows in The New Jerusalem Bible. 2Cor.13:13(14) puts the three together in this way: The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." 1Cor. 12:4-6 says: "There are many different gifts, but is always the same spirit; there are many different ways of serving, but it is always the same Lord. There are many different forms of activity, but in everyone it is the same God who is at work in them all." And Matt. 28:19 reads: "Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Do these verses say that God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit constitute a trinitarian Godhead, that the three are equal substance, power, and eternity? No, they do not, no more than listing three people, such as Tom, Dick, and Harry, means that they are three in one. Also remember that there are cases in the bible where three people are mentioned together like Abraham, Issac and jacob, with no question of them being the same person.

other "proof texts" deal only with the relationship between two-Jesus and the Father.

    "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE"

That text is often used to support the idea of a trinity, even though no third person is mentioned there. But Jesus himself showed what he ment by being one with his Father. At John 17:21,22, he prayed to God that his disciples "may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me, and i am in union with you, that they may also be in union with us,... that they may be one, just as we are one." Was jesus praying that all his disciples become one single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in the same line of though and purpose, as he and God were.-see also 1Cor 1:10.

    "I AM"

At John 8:58 a number of translations, for instance The Jerusalem Bible, have Jesus saying: "Before Abraham ever was, I Am." Was Jesus there teaching, as trinitarians assert, that he was known by the title "I AM"? And as they claim, does this mean that he was Jehovah of the hebrew scriptures, since the king james version at exodus 3:14 states: "God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM"?

At Exodus 3:14 (KJ) the phrase "I AM" is used as a title for God to show that he really existed and would do as he promised. The pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by dr. J.H Hertz, says of the phrase: "To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, 'although he has not yet displayed his power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.'" Most modern translations follow in rendering (Exodus 3:14) 'I will be what i will be.'

The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or title but by means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other bible versions render John 8:58:

1869: "From before Abraham was, I have been." The New Testament, by G.R. Noyes.

1935: "I existed before Abraham was born!" The Bible-An American Translation, by J.M.P Smith and E.J. Goodspeed.

1965: "Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that i am." Das Neue Testament, by Jorg Zink.

1981: "I was alive before Abraham was born!" The Simply English Bible.

1984: "Before Abraham came into existance, I have been." New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

Thus the real thought of the greek used here is that Gods created "Firstborn," Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.-Collossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22,23,30; Revelation 3:14.

Again, the context shows this to be the correct understanding. This time the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to "have seen Abraham" although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old.(John 8:57) Jesus natural response was to tell the truth about his age. So he naturally told them that he "was alive before Abraham was born!"-Simple Engish Bible.

   Could God be Tempted?

At Matt. 4:1, Jesus is spoken of as being "tempted by the Devil." After showing Jesus "all the kingdoms of the world and their glory," Satan said: "All theses things i will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me." (Matt.4:8,9) Satan was trying to cause jesus to be disloyal to God.

But what test would that be if Jesus were Go? Could God rebel against himself? No, but angels and humans could rebel against God and did. The temptation of Jesus would make sense only if he was, not God, but a seperate individual who had his own free will, one who could have been disloyal had he chosen to be, such as an angel or human.

On the other hand, it is unimaginable that God could sin and be disloyal to himself. "Perfect is his activity... A God of faithfulness,... righteous and upright is he."(Deut.32:4) So if Jesus had of been God he could not of been tempted.-james 1:13.

Not being God, Jesus could have been disloyal. But he remained faithful, saying: "Go away, Satan! for it is written, it is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you should render sacred service."-Matt. 4:10

   How Much Was the Ransom?

ONE of the main reasons Jesus came to earth also has a direct bering on the trinity. The bible states: "There is one God, and one mediater between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a crresponding ransom for all."- 1Tim 2:5,6

Jesus, no more and no less than a perfect human, became a ransom that compensated exactly for what Adam lost-the right to perfect human life on earth. So Jesus could rightly be called "the last Adam" by the apostle Paul, who said in context: "Just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive."(1cor 15:22,45) The perfect human life of Jesus was the "corresponding ransom" required by divine justice-no more, no less. A basic principle even of human justice is that the price paid should fit the wrong commited.

If Jesus, however, were part of the Godhead, the ransom would be infinitly higher than what Gods own law required.(Ex. 21:23-25; Lev. 24:19-21) It was only a perfect human, Adam who sinned in Eden, not God. So the ransom, to be truly in line with Gods justice, had to be strictly an equivalent- a perfect human, "the last Adam." Thus when God sent jesus to earth as the ransom, not an incarnation, not a god-man, but a perfect man, "lower than angels." (Heb. 2:9; compare psalm 8:5,6.) How could part of an Almighty Godhead-Father, Son, or holy spirit-ever be lower than angels?

 This, Ben, "means everlasting life" (john 17:3) not in heaven (Matt.5:5) but where Jehovah always intendid man to live on a paradise earth, with the whole earth in subjection to us (Gen. 1:28.) All you have to do is have the right heart (2Tim 4:4) Prove for yourself "whether these thing are so" (Acts 17:11).

  ALL MY CHRISTIAN LOVE.

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:42 PM on May 5, 2003 | IP
    
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