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why are you guys so mean to people, sometimes they are so vicious its like they're trying to drive you to an early grave.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:42 AM on April 1, 2003 | IP
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IS THE NUMBER 144,000 MERELY SYMBOLIC?

The ansewer is indicated by the fact, that after mention of the definate number 144,000, Revelation 7,9 refers to "a great crowd which no man was able to number." If the number 144,000 were not literal it would lack meaning as a contrast to the "great crowd." viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus' statement at Matthew 22,14 regarding the kingdom of the heavens:"there are many invited, but few chosen.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:35 PM on April 2, 2003 | IP
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Where did everyone go?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:38 PM on April 2, 2003 | IP
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re: 144,000
Rev 20,6: "they will be priests of God and of the christ, and will rule as kings with him for a thosend years."
but rule over who?
Ecclesiastes 1,4 states that the earth will remain forever,
which gives the kings and priests someone to rule over.

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:54 PM on April 2, 2003 | IP
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If Adam (being human) had not sinned would he have eventually gone to heaven?
The bible answers:
Gen 1,26 says Adam was to be a caretaker on the earth no mention of heaven.
Gen 2:16,17 is where JEHOVAH laid a command on the man not to eat from the tree or he would "positively die" it was not Jehovahs original purpose for man to die, Death was to be the punishment for disobedience and not the gateway to a better life in heaven.
It is reasonable to say then that Adam would have had a happy life on earth IF HE HAD NOT SINNED.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:27 PM on April 2, 2003 | IP
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Jehovah made an arrangement for a select few (144,000) to be transferred to heaven(Rev. 14:1-3)  to rule over the ones left on earth (Matt. 5:5,  6:9,10)
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:37 PM on April 2, 2003 | IP
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After Armagedon (VERY CLOSE) the only government left (Dan. 2:44) will be Jehovahs made up of jesus+144,000 ruling over the entire earth (Rev. 5:10) this government is the means jehovah will use to bring mankind back up to perfection (Rom. 8:19-21)
The governments today all belong to satan (2cor. 2:2 Rev. 12:9) as im sure anyone with reason could work out!!!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:55 PM on April 2, 2003 | IP
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This is to the guest Posted 11:44am, March 23rd 2003...
if you are trying to make a fool of yourself you done it, you need to look into what jws really do believe.
And yes we do believe in heaven, where else would God and jesus live?
We dont believe in hell.
We do believe in the ressurection.
We do believe thatJehovahs war with mankind to rid the world of wickedness is eminant.(Rev 16:15,16. Matt 24.)
ALL OUR BELIEFS ARE FROM GODS HOLY WORD NO OTHER SO CALLED CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION CAN CLAIM THIS FACT.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:35 PM on April 2, 2003 | IP
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I have studied in and with alot of people of different beliefs. I have also studied for a yr or more with JW & I once published. I have several very hard issues which keep me from ever realizing a church family, but I do not question the existence of God; never have. I just can't conceive of everything in this world and others, stars, planets, animals, plants, air, water, all here by some circumstance. Gravity by some random occurrence. What holds everything in place..I do have low self-esteem(recovering abused & assaulted kid-don't get out the hankies PLEASE) but I can't believe in all the beauty of nature and I come out of slime??? Yech. Who would want to be human knowing that bit? Anyway, I do believe the Bible (maybe just based on 2 facts--1-the verse in Job that says the earth itself hangs on nothing. point:Job carbon-dated hundreds of yrs before the year 1. and fact 2-Isaiah reads I think it's 40:22 that there is one who sits above the circle of the earth. point:Isaiah is part of Dead Sea Scrolls carbon-dated hundreds of yrs before yr 1 also. This means that during the period Chris Columbus was thinkin the world was maybe round, the printed word stating that it was, was already in a Bible and for that matter, maybe it was in a Bible chained to the pulpit while Columbus was asking for ships.) In any case, I'm still stuck. The 144,000 is indeed mentioned in Rev. & I've no doubt God put it there for some reason--not mystical--just like there were 12 disciples, 10 commandments, seven days, a thousand yrs is as a day to the Lord. Why make it something mysterious? But question--why do you say the 144,000 begins at the time of Christ (I know you'll say Christ-the first fruit) But the NT does state that Abraham, Issac & Jacob sit in Heaven--I refer to the sitting at the table talk. question-why should only these remaining 144,000 be allowed to take communion if this Lord's supper refers back to the Passover. The blood representing Jesus' death for us? If we then deny ourselves the communion, Jesus says "There is no life in us". Paul said to discern the Lord's table--as they had to do before sacrifice. Paul said the reason some were sick was because they did not discern the table (I am assuming this meant coming with a clear conscience) I believe the reference of Passover coming out of slaver to be parallel with the coming out of slavery to sin, thereby taking the blood upon us. If the people back in Egypt did not put the blood on the lantles? doorposts--the firstborn would not be spared, and they had to eat the Lamb (the parallel being Christ as the Lamb)
Denying communion to me is like denying Christ. Also, about the 144,000 (sorry) you state this refers back to Abraham's reference by God to him that his offspring would be as the number of the stars of heaven. And that the number of the stars of heaven was then 144,000. ??? Remember it also states his offspring would be as the dust of the earth if it could be numbered. I think there are far more dust particles and stars than 144,000 and it scares me when someone states as fact something they cannot prove, or in this case, that God is stating a case against. I'd much rather a religion say "I don't know what that means, maybe we'll figure it out one day" , than people trying to make every piece fit. Why do we as humans have to make everything fit our parameters of comprehension? Is not God much much greater than this? As for birthday celebrations, I don't see anything wrong with it--opinion. I know there were 2 celebrated (mentioned) in the Bible that were pagan, but because no other birthdays are mentioned, doesn't mean they didn't mark it somehow, especially since everyone knew (as Genesis even indicates) how old somebody was. As for JW as people in general at the KH, I have never, ever in my life felt more loved and cared for than there. Great things about you that fit with Bible: you don't believe in suing your brother (meaning any other JW no matter where he lives). All arguments or disagreements between brothers must be worked out--and they can ask for help from others and worked out lovingly. They go out and witness--preach the good news--make disciples of all nations. They are not partial (God is not partial--as Peter says) There is no COLOR or race issue in a KH. They know their Bible more than anyone I've ever met. In fact, there are five studies a wk and the Bible is completely read thru every 3 yrs thruout the life. Ministers do not retire--I should clarify--all baptized believers are ministers-no clergy-but differing from some churches, they do not "retire" from the ministry. I don't think the disciples would have thought much of that one. So, why am I not there right now? Above noted: the 144,000, the communion, and my own personal problem which is great--but I'm working on that one. Oh, I also believe there are still miracles--a Biggie--since I've been involved in a couple major ones and there is no coincidence thought you can talk me into on that point. Once you've seen one, & been right in the midst, there ain't no doubt!!! I believe JW think miracles are in the past, yes?
Anyway, my thoughts--the long version--can you respond. I'd also like to take this opportunity to ask you to please be polite/kind in your responses to people. We are all humans trying to find our way. What you say or how you say it can change a person's view of your beliefs forever. Though I don't agree with alot of people, I don't get to be judge, nor jury.
Thanks for listening & hopefully responding--in response, please list Bible verses--you can rough quote them-I'll look them up, but if it's opinion, please state it's opinion.  Thanks.
Been there
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:28 PM on April 4, 2003 | IP
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I'm sure there are others, sorry, but I forgot something else to ask.
Rom 14 talks about one man eating
meat, another eating veggies, etc....but then says one man esteems one day above another-another esteems each day alike. Let each man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Then onward about God being the one to whom he is the man is honoring--one one way,one another. And so on.
the question is in an article and by an individual JW, I was told that if one kept a sabbath, he was denying Christ's death because Christ was the end of the law. But Rom 14 clearly indicates one man thinks one day is more important than another and some think each day is alike.  Christ kept a sabbath so it would seem strange to me that then keeping one because you feel it is the right thing to do could hardly be denying the very one who also kept it.
It takes me way too many words to question, but I'm sure you know what I'm saying....
????
And why do you think it not possible for God, Jehovah, to make the creations and form the world from void in six days? Nothing is impossible with God. I'm not sure why you believe six days aren't literally six days. Can you explain??
Thanks.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:18 PM on April 5, 2003 | IP
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Probably because there is zero scientific evidence to support the idea that the universe/world/life was created in six 24-hour periods.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:38 PM on April 5, 2003 | IP
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Bible says .. and the evening and the morning was the first day...and the evening and the morning....etc.
As to scientific evidence, God made the fruit bearing trees on Day 3. He made flying creatures, etc. on Day 4. Since we know it takes insects, bees and the like to cross pollinate and get the fruit to produce (their created job) if Day 3 was 100 yrs or ? long, it couldn't produce fruit until the creatures came along the next day, however long that was.

Also, Day 4 was the creation of the luminaries for day and night, seasons, etc. How could the trees, plants get the chlorophyl? from the sun without the sun being present for another whatever yrs?
It's God who created the "way things work" so why would He make things work one way and then change them later...how we get oxygen, etc?
Thanks.
Where did everyone else go????
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:38 AM on April 6, 2003 | IP
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You're missing the point.
There was no 7 day creation, period.

If you want to believe there was a creation at all, you cannot accept Genesis as literal.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:12 PM on April 6, 2003 | IP
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To guest who asked "why do we say that the 144,000 began at christ"  I think it would have somthing to do with the fact that jesus had not yet paid the ransom so Jehovah could not have selected a government for a human race that had not yet been sanctified. "My opinion". Will need to do some research.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:21 PM on April 7, 2003 | IP
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Kingdoms Begins At Christ.

Dan. 7:13,14. speaks of Christ recieving the kingdom.
Rev 5:9,10. "You were Slaughtered and with your blood bought persons for God...to be a kingdom....to rule as kings over the earth." So it was after Christs death that these ones were bought from the earth.
1cor. 15:20. "Christ raised up from dead, Firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death."  No record of men going to heaven before Christs death. In fact Jesus while on earth said "no man has ascended into heaven" Joh. 3:13. ( also remember John the baptist, Matt. 11:11.  King David, Act. 2:34.)
Heb 9:24. "For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us." So if people had already been transfered to heaven this scripture would not make sense. Heb. 6:19,20 says that a "forunner has entered in our behalf" also Jesus said "i am going my way to prepare a place for you" Joh. 14:2,3.  Also Heb. 10: 19,20 "the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of jesus"
I cant remember where is said about Abraham, Issac and Jacob sitting in heaven sorry.
CREATION
It takes 2,000,000 years for light to reach our planet from the Andromeda nebula so that must mean the universe is AT LEAST that old.
Jehovah creates the universe in 7 periods of time and wether those periods overlap each other is not denied in the scriptures so this would allow for pollination, light, soil microbes ETC. Does he not live outside of time knowing past, present and future. Unimaginable.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:33 PM on April 9, 2003 | IP
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what are the names of the 14 jehovah witnesses that died at world trade center 9/11?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:01 PM on April 10, 2003 | IP
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dont know!  there wasnt that many was there.

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:53 PM on April 11, 2003 | IP
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The JW's is a disturbing religion. They believe in 1935, Judge Rutherford the 2nd president of the watch tower closed the doors to heaven... A man with that authority? Hmm. One thing here... Dont you think God would make heaven large enough for all his beloved to enter? Another... Live forever on earth? Did you guys forget 2nd Peter 3:10. The Jehovah's False Witness's need to re-read the word of God and re-evaluate their beliefs.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:58 AM on April 20, 2003 | IP
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They believe in 1935, Judge Rutherford the 2nd president of the watch tower closed the doors to heaven

So how's he going to get in?
ahaha
 


Posts: 17 | Posted: 11:21 AM on April 20, 2003 | IP
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To be correct, with the explaination of these verses must agree with the context and with the rest of the bible.
If these texts (2Peter 3:7, 10 and Rev 21:1) mean that the literal earth is to be consumed by fire, then the literal heavens are also to be destroyed by fire. Such a literal view however conflicts with the assurance contained in such texts as Mt 6:10, Ps 37:29, 104:5, Pr 2:21,22, Isa 45:18, Ps 37:9-11, Pr 2:21,22, Matt 5:5. ETC. Furthermore what effect would fire have on the already intensely hot sun? So the term "earth" must be understood in a different sense.
At Gen 11:1, 1Ki 2:1,2, 1Cron 16:31, Ps 96:1, etc., the term "earth" is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society. Might that be the case at 2pet 3:7-10, and Rev 21:1?
Note that in the context at 2Pet 3:5,6 (also 2Pet 2:5,9), a parallel is drawn with the flood of Noahs day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his family as well as the globe itself was preserved. Likewise, at 2Pe 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are  "ungodly men." The view that the "earth" here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is the symbolic "Earth" or wicked human society, that is "disclosed"; that is, Jehovah will sear away as by fire all disquise, exposing the wickedness of ungodly human society and showing it to be worthy of complete destruction.
The heavens mentioned at 2Pet 3:10 refers to rulership as in many other places in the bible such as Dan 4:25,26 which talks about Jehovah in his supreme position. also human rulership is spoken of as being heavenly at Isa 14:12-14 Babylons king is said to be fallen from heaven. Heaven has many different meanings in the bible not just literal.
Jehovahs original purpose for the earth (Gen 1:28) has not changed it will be inhabited forever (Ps 37:29)  no one will change Jehovahs will (Isa 55:10,11).
I really dont understand why you say we are a disturbing religion? perhaps you would like to have a bible study with us (Acts 8:27-40. note verses 30 and 31.) Thankyou, i have re-read Jehovahs word (in part, for your benfit) and i have re-evaluated my beliefs
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:21 AM on April 20, 2003 | IP
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y
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:02 PM on April 26, 2003 | IP
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If you belive Christ came in 1914 why do you hold a menmorial yet as other churchs.Jw's do not have the truth they teach in order to be saved from armegeddon you have to be a JW if not God is going to kill you.I was raised in this cult it destroys families,and protects child molestors.The bible says through Christ only can we be saved.Not the JW's.Think about that.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:10 PM on April 30, 2003 | IP
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Christs kingdom began to rule in 1914.. there are two lines of evidence for this (1) bible chronology and (2) the events since 1914 in fulfilment of bible prophecy.
(1) read daniel 4:1-17 Verses 20-37 show that this prophecy had a fulfilment upon nebuchadnezzar. But it also has a larger fulfillment. How do we know that? verses 3 and 17 show that the dream that God gave to the king deals with the kingdom of God and Gods promise to give it "to the one whom he wants too... even the lowliest of mankind." The entire bible shows that Jehovahs purpose is for is own son, Jesus Christ, to rule as his representitive over mankind.(ps 2: 1-8; Dan. 7: 13, 14; 1Cor. 15: 23-25; Rev: 11:15; 12: 10) The bible description of Jesus shows that he was indeed "the lowliest of mankind." (phil. 2: 7, 8; Matt. 11:28-30) The prophetic dream, then, points to the time when Jehovah would give rulership over mankind to his son.
What was to happen in the meantime?
Rulership over mankind, as represented by the tree and its root stock, would have "the heart of a beast"(dan. 4: 16) The history of mankind would be dominated by governments that displayed the character of wild beasts. The bible also uses wild beasts as symbols of world governments and of the entire global system under the control of Satan.(Dan. 7: 2-8; 8: 20-22; Rev. 13: 1,2.) As Jesus showed in his prophecy, pointing to the conclusion of this system of things, Jeruselem would be "trampled on by the nations, until the appointed time of the nations" were fulfilled. (Luke 21: 24) "Jerusalem represented the kingdom of God becaue its kings were said to sit on "the throne of the kingship of Jehovah." (1Chron. 28: 4,5; Matt. 5: 34,35) So, the gentile governments, represented by wild beasts, would "trample" on the right of Gods kingdom to direct human affairs being under the control of Satan. See, Luke 4: 5,6.
So for how long would such governments be permitted to exercise this control before Jehovah gave the kingdom to Jesus Christ? Daniel 4: 16 says "7 times" (or years in some bibles) The bible shows in calculating prophetic time, a day is counted as a year. (Ezek. 4: 6; Num 14: 34) How many "days," then, are involved? Revelation 11: 2,3 clearly states that 42 months (three and a half years) in that prophecy are counted as 1,260 days. Seven years would be twice that, or 2,520 days. Applying the "day for a year" rule would result in 2,520 years.
So when did the counting of the "seven times" begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in jerusalem by the babylonians. (Ezek 21: 25-27) Finally, by early oct. of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governer, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining jews had fled to egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537 B.C.E., the year in which the jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early oct. of 607 B.C.E. (Jer. 29: 10; Dan 9: 2.)
So count 2,520 years from early oct. of 607 B.C.E. brings us to early oct. of 1914 C.E. try to remember what happened in that year in fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24.
why do you hold a menmorial yet as other churchs.
sorry i didn't understand what you ment by this. But we do celebrate the lords evening meal, on nisan 14 in the luner calender, as instructed by Christ, at Matt. chapter 26.
We do have the truth (1tim. 2: 4) and spend many hours telling it (Matt 24: 14)to good people like yourself. What we teach is not our own thoughts but what Jehovahs word says, even concerning the survivers at armegeddon. Jehovah gives loving guidlines about families and its normally the case that when people rebel against those guidlines then families run the risk of breaking up. We in no way protect child molesters, you have to remember that jehovah has given us insrtuction on how to deal with these things that we cannot go beyond.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 06:32 AM on May 1, 2003 | IP
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I hope everyone looks at all the cited verses from the last posting thats where the truth comes from.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:46 PM on May 1, 2003 | IP
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Is there anyone that has a reasonable question for one of Jehovahs Wittnesses
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:28 PM on May 5, 2003 | IP
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[hi there...im very interested in learning more about the jw religion, pls tell me more...quote]Quote from Guest at 12:41 PM on August 13, 2002 :
as one of jehovahs witnesses i would like to anser any questions you have about us.




 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:10 AM on May 11, 2003 | IP
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think of a good question then!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:50 AM on May 11, 2003 | IP
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hey so them being "true christians" means they cna sexually harass people oh ok I didn't think I knew that

ya I saw a special about you guys MAN DID THEY RIP ON YOU
hehehe!


-------
Don't make me mad....oh no, you don't wanna know what I'll do to you!
 


Posts: 35 | Posted: 11:41 PM on May 17, 2003 | IP
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Quote from Exxoss at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2002 :
But what about the cwertain number in heaven thingy?  I dont wanna go to hell because heaven got full if i become a christian!    And another question,  Why do christians think the bible is 100%true if people scribed it and probably ruined some stuff, as well as having no proof that the bible is right other than 'you gotta believe'?



I definately agree with you even though I'm Catholic I don't think everything in the bible is true, but I don't think everything isn't true

I don't believe that Jesus was DEFINATELY a man I mean it makes since that we would say that being man dominating world (no offense to men thats just the way it is)

I don't think that there is a hell

Jesus says he'll forgive no matter what we do

we could do the worst thing someone could ever possibly  do and he would still be forgiven

right?

so that means we must go to heaven and not hell




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Don't make me mad....oh no, you don't wanna know what I'll do to you!
 


Posts: 35 | Posted: 11:52 PM on May 17, 2003 | IP
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Kels_615,
which parts of the Bible do you, and do you not believe?
Could it not be possible for our creator to preserve a book concidering whats he's already done? God parted the red sea, he fed his people with food from the sky, he caused the israelites victory over mighty armies, the list goes on, looking after a book is a small task compared with things like these. see 2tim. 3:16.

Matthew 1:21 says that Jesus was a man. Nowhere in the bible does it say otherwise.

Jesus says he'll forgive no matter what we do

we could do the worst thing someone could ever possibly  do and he would still be forgiven

right?

The apostle Paul also of some who will “undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones.” (2Th 1:9, 10) These would therefore not survive into the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, and since their destruction is “everlasting,” they would receive no resurrection.

Jesus Christ said that one who sinned against the holy spirit would not be forgiven in the present system of things nor in that to come. (Mt 12:31, 32) A person whom God judged as having sinned against the holy spirit in the present system of things would therefore not profit by a resurrection, since his sins would never be forgiven, making resurrection useless for him. Jesus uttered judgment against Judas Iscariot in calling him “the son of destruction.” The ransom would not apply to him, and his destruction already being a judicially established judgment, he would not receive a resurrection.—Joh 17:12.

To his opposers, the Jewish religious leaders, Jesus said: “How are you to flee from the judgment of Gehenna [a symbol of everlasting destruction]?” (Mt 23:33;.) His words indicate that these persons, if they did not take action to turn to God before their death, would have a final adverse judgment entered against them. If so, a resurrection would accomplish nothing for them. This would also appear to be true of “the man of lawlessness.”—2Th 2:3, 8;

Not every good person is going to heaven, Jehovahs purpose was not for man to go to heaven, but to live forever on earth. Mt 6:10, Ps 37:29, 104:5, Pr 2:21,22, Isa 45:18, Ps 37:9-11, Pr 2:21,22, Matt 5:5. all of these verses promise life on earth.

When i became one of Jehovahs Witnesses, i didnt do so because i thought that all there members were perfect, or there was no trace of sin, but over time i saw that they were the true christian witnesses, the only ones that teach the truth from the Bible, the only ones that stick to the bible as there sourse of law (John 8:31), they dont fight in human wars, they dont bless soldiers, they dont hold war memorials. Instead we have a love for each other that couldent be matched as an organization (John 13:34,35).
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:48 PM on May 18, 2003 | IP
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The differences between the Witnesses and most Christians is that the Witnesses do not believe in the Trinity, they believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel due to a verse in the book of Daniel and in the Book of Revelation stating that the Great Prince Michael will fight Satan and his angels. (Not in the exact terms I stated)
They focus a lot more on the study of the Bible (accompanied with The Watchtower)
They believe the Cross was a Stick (Or just a large log or something)...Also they see wearing a Cross necklace as idolizing, I agree.  
I'm still debating myself who's right or wrong with most of the differences.  My best friend is a Witness.  He's opened my eyes to a lot of things.  I'm very confused.  I just want to serve the Father the best I can, but all of these issues cloud my judgment.  I've been bouncing from church to church and in my search I find the truth, but then that truth is questioned and once again considered 'iffy'.  
It all boils down to what Paul said, which is faith in Christ is all we need, everything else will come naturally.  I agree totally with the morals of the Witnesses.  I wish I could be as fervant as they are.  Most churches I've been to, they have service, and shortly afterwards members of the congregation talk about wordly things like nothing's wrong, and I myself get carried away feeling guilty afterwards.
The Witnesses also have the offering thing set up so that when you feel you should give something to the church you can.  They don't have a collection basket passed around to embarass people that can't give.  There were countless Sundays that I've skipped out on service because I had no money to give.  Once I even put a blank envelop in the basket to elude my shame.  
I don't know, I'm just seeking the truth and hopefully I can find it and come to know whom the Father is that I serve and that I may know the shepards voice so that I can follow him wherever he goes.
I need to start going to church again, but I'm afraid I'd be back in another one of those churches.  I shouldn't look at the people though.  It's just a lot easier to serve Christ when you're surrounded by people that love him with all their hearts.  

So, in conclusion, I'm seeking answers.  I'll probably never come back to this site, I just wanted to state what I know about the Witnesses.  If I was wrong about anything I apologize in advance.  May the Father bless you all with his eternal salvation.

P.S.  If you don't believe in HELL, check out this site...They give a very frightening argument that just may change your mind...It has me thinking.

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

Oh yea, another thing the Witnesses believe is that when you die, you stay in the grave sleeping and you don't go to Heaven or Hell right away, as opposed to most christian who believe that you go immediately after death to either.  The Witnesses argue about when then is there judgment if you.  They don't believe in the Rapture as far as I'm concerned (Uncertain about that)
Don't take my word for anything that's been stated, I may be wrong.  Ask the Witnesses themselves and double check.  

I'm on the borderline when it comes to what I agree with.
All I know is that Jesus gave his life for mankind to be saved, and that's one life I'd rather not put to waste.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:16 AM on June 2, 2003 | IP
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P.S.  If you don't believe in HELL, check out this site...They give a very frightening argument that just may change your mind...It has me thinking.

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html


That site doesn't give any good arguments for the existance of hell.   At the beginning, it talks about a doctor whose dying patient was screaming and saying he was in hell WHILE HE WAS ALIVE.   That is the only argument it gives.  After that, there's a lot of rambling on about how much hell sucks, a quick reminder of the incredibly old HOAX about miners digging to hell (because most miners carry around mics that reach to the center of the earth), and some preaching.

Yes, very convincing.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:46 AM on June 2, 2003 | IP
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Run as fast as you can the other way,flee from the evil JWs!!!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:13 AM on June 21, 2003 | IP
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[I am a witness I unerstand what you are saying your mom loves you and it is just her way of trying to see if you are ok. Emotion is a hard thing so hang in there. Keep studying do not give up and do not listen to Negative talk that is posted on this site. these people do not understand and wili tear you apart and put the truth down. Get help from the Elders and ones who care. Satan will use all he can to keep you from progressing he is crafty so watch out and take care. You are doing the right thing and never doubt what you are learning. a sis and friend who cares
quote]Quote from Guest at 7:25 PM on March 19, 2003 :
im studying for a few weeks now and i moved in with a sister. During my study im told not to speak with my mom who's disfellowshiped.
i understand why, but she says they come around and ask questions about me now that im out of her house. When i ask them they say no, but sometime during the studies they ask questions that sound like they've been snooping. it makes me uncomfortable, what should i do.




 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:52 AM on July 11, 2003 |
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I would like to make a small point about the third question in the series of four that were presented earlier:  The credentials of the men who translated the New World Translation would be irrelevent as they are based on earthly standards which would be imperfect.  If what is said in 2 Timothy 3:16,17 is true (All scripture is inspired of God and Beneficial...) then a true English translation of the Holy Scriptures would not need to be backed up by superficial titles on those who were priveliged to do this.  The translation would be "Inspired of God".  Show me a modern translation of the Bible that is without flaw. The NWT does not claim to be infallable. It only claims to be as close to the original Hebrew and Greek texts as is possible.

Also think about this:  The very men who penned the Bible in the first place were spoken of as men who were "unlettered and ordinary" (Acts 4:13) by the religious leaders of the time.  Wouldn't must mean that God does not use men with 'credentials' to do his will? Rather, He would use men who had the right heart condition to do what He has purposed.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:52 PM on August 20, 2003 | IP
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I studied at length with Witnesses.  I had to stop.

They are far from being Satanic.  On the contrary, they are some of the most sincere Bible students I have ever encountered.

It should also be noted that the New World Translation of the Bible is relatively new, before it they used they same Bibles as anyone else.  It is, however, a poor translaion.  Someone asked who translated this.  Witnesses will not tell you as they have not been told and the information is not public.  It has, however, leaked.  There were five men, all their names are not at my fingertips.  One of the Franz's was amongst them.   Their skills for the work were limited.  Two years of Greek.  That's it.  They used other tools to do the rest of the translation.  Also, if you read it, it does read awkward and many errors have been found by Hebrew and Greek scholars.  Nothing horrible, though.  I do not believe there was intent to change God's word, they simply were not skilled enough to undertake the task.  It is nice having God's name there, however - it was also added to the Greek scriptures where it never was.

I am extremely skeptical of their other publications as they frequently fail to cite sources and I myself have encountered mis-information and misuse of information.

It's sad, because there is generally true fellowship between Witnesses and sincerity of faith.  However, caring for their brother has morphed into cult tactics that utilize fear and control.  The use and reasons for disfellowshipping are nothing short of emotional blackmail and abuse.

There are also things that really can't be backed up by the Bible;  voting and birthdays.

However, I think they are right on as to the Earth becoming paradise, and hell is bogus.

There's my babbling - from a former Watchtower student.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:38 PM on September 12, 2003 | IP
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I studied at length with Witnesses.  I had to stop.

They are far from being Satanic.  On the contrary, they are some of the most sincere Bible students I have ever encountered.

It should also be noted that the New World Translation of the Bible is relatively new, before it they used they same Bibles as anyone else.  It is, however, a poor translaion.  Someone asked who translated this.  Witnesses will not tell you as they have not been told and the information is not public.  It has, however, leaked.  There were five men, all their names are not at my fingertips.  One of the Franz's was amongst them.   Their skills for the work were limited.  Two years of Greek.  That's it.  They used other tools to do the rest of the translation.  Also, if you read it, it does read awkward and many errors have been found by Hebrew and Greek scholars.  Nothing horrible, though.  I do not believe there was intent to change God's word, they simply were not skilled enough to undertake the task.  It is nice having God's name there, however - it was also added to the Greek scriptures where it never was.

I am extremely skeptical of their other publications as they frequently fail to cite sources and I myself have encountered mis-information and misuse of information.

It's sad, because there is generally true fellowship between Witnesses and sincerity of faith.  However, caring for their brother has morphed into cult tactics that utilize fear and control.  The use and reasons for disfellowshipping are nothing short of emotional blackmail and abuse.

There are also things that really can't be backed up by the Bible;  voting and birthdays.

However, I think they are right on as to the Earth becoming paradise, and hell is bogus.

There's my babbling - from a former Watchtower student.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:38 PM on September 12, 2003 | IP
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Hi ,
I have noticed that  there are many misconceptions about Jehovah's Witnesses here and I would like to offer you all a way to get a clear interpretation of what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Please feel free to visit: www.watchtower.org
You can request publications here or even a study of the bible.
We do believe that Jesus is the son of Jehovah God , that Jesus died on a torture stake for all of our sins , opening the way to eternal life for us if we take necessary actions to benefit from this blessing.We believe that you must take in knowledge of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ as stated in the bible at John 17:3 .That  classifies us as Christians. Although not claiming in anyway  to be perfect we do try to follow Jesus' foot steps closely because he was our exemplar.(1Pet.2:21) That is why we participate in a worldwide(over 234 land) preaching campaign to declare the glorious good news about the Christ and the blessings that the kingdom will bring to this troubled earth.(Acts 5:42)We try to encourage folks of every walk of life to "keep making sure of the more important things",(Phillipians 1:10) by doing personal bible study and reading the bible daily.We do not want to force our own opinions on people but take them to their OWN copy of the bible and reason with them from the scriptures.(Acts 17:2,3) We believe that the bible is the only way that Jehovah God communicates with people here on earth today , and that it , not words from a man has the capabilities to change peoples lives and for the better .(Phillipians 4:6,7 ) As for the various other subjects that you folks have touched on I cannot answer them all . If you are interested in learning more and having other questions answered for you ,please contact the local congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in your area. They will be happy to answer your questions and show you were they can be found in your OWN bible .It is most beneficial this way , better to believe something you see and just not hear .
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:46 AM on December 12, 2003 | IP
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If this is the real religion and the 'truth' why has it only been around for a couple of hundred years and how do we know the 144,000 that claim to be the chosen ones arent lying and these are the last days, how much longer will we have to wait? the Lord wants us to be so understanding and giving and good, why do you all put the people in the world into one bracket and look down on us.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:45 PM on January 11, 2004 | IP
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Ok so here is the skinny on the witnesses.  They do not believe in hell.  They believe when you die you wait until armageddon.  then if you are worthy you live on paradise on earth.  They got the name jahovah from some foriegn word jah.  They think celebrating anything but the passover is worshipping false idols.  When the faithful people live on paradise they live for a thousand years until god releases satan and all the unfaithful people to try and tempt the faithful people.  Then god kills all the unfaithful people.  The 144,000 are people that help jesus and god basically.  You also cannot communicate with people who are not witnesses unless you are preaching to them otherwise they will corrupt you.  If you have anymore questions just ask.   I use to be a witness.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 6:51 PM on February 12, 2004 | IP
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I went to the link that one of the above guests posted about hell.  Half of the page is quotes from the bible.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 4:29 PM on February 13, 2004 | IP
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I have several Witness friends and I am not a Witness.  One of my best friends who is a Witness even dated a Catholic.

I know some congregations are stricter than others, though.

I disagree with much of what they believe and I think they use cult tactics in running the organization - but they are right on about hell.  The three words that have been translated into hell do not mean what most people think they do.  Two mean death and one means destruction.  None mean eternal torment.  As if God would give Satan his own realm!!!!  Absurd!



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- Leslie
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 4:12 PM on February 17, 2004 | IP
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CULT TACTICS?  What tactics are these?  Some witnesses aren't as into it as others.  Your friend probably wasn't babtised.  I still would like to know these cult tactics.  
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 6:35 PM on February 17, 2004 | IP
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He was born and raised a Witness and was babptized at 15, I think.  He is currently a Pioneer and his dad is an elder.  He (and his whole crowd) have several non-Witness friends.

Anyway - cult tactics.  You could research them yourself, but here is some high-leve info.

1 - Controlling of environment.  This can be extreme (like Jim Jones hauling all his followers to South America - Jonestown), but is generally more subtle.  They will try limit what you are exposed to.  How many times as a Witness was it strongly implied what kind of things you should be watching, seeing, listening to?  Witnesses aren't encouraged to have non-Witnesses in their lives (even though many do).  They are even encouraged to cut-off from non-Witness family members.  I have been to meetings where I was told how to dress and just how clean my house should be.  They also discourage higher education - a person gets all kinds of information there.  Then there is the time committment.  How many Witnesses have time for anything else besides meetings, ministry and work?

2 - Claiming to have exclusive knowledge of the truth.

3 - Punishment for critical thought.  What happens to someone who disagrees with Watchtower policy?  Disfellowship and shunning - even of family members!  How dare they.  This is so abusive it makes me ill every time I think about it.

Here is a URL to more info on cult tactics:

http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studycult/study_whatisdescult.htm

The Watchtower Society certainly is not the worst cult out there, but they certainly are one.

Nobody else has any business doing your thinking for you.  Period.

(Edited by jito 2/18/2004 at 1:44 PM).


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- Leslie
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 1:41 PM on February 18, 2004 | IP
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They encourage certain activities so you won't stray away and be corrupted.  The jim jones thing is no different than a mormon missionary.  They feel that if you have friends that aren't witnesses that you will start to go down that path.  Their main goal is to gain as many followers as possible.  PUNISHMENT FOR CRITICAL THINKING ARE YOU SERIOUS?  If you don't believe in something why would you even stay.  Witnesses can date non witnesses just as long as they don't get married.  If you are married and you spouse becomes a witness your spouse would not be shunned.  Told you how to dress.  At the meetings they want you to look presentable that way you don't stick out.  How to clean your house?  ARE you S*&#ing me they never told me how to clean my house.  Just because you found something on the internet doesn't mean it is true.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 7:28 PM on February 18, 2004 | IP
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I went to your web site and less than half of the stuff actually applies to witnesses.  I fyou disagree then i want you to prove it!
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 7:32 PM on February 18, 2004 | IP
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I spent a year studying with Witnesses and attending meetings.

At those meetings talks I received implied, if not direct instruction on:

How to dress, what music to listen, what to read, who my friends should be, what to watch on TV, how to discipline my son, that my house should be "the cleanest on the block", and how to feel on a miriad of issues that aren't even directly addressed in the Bible (voting, birthdays, smoking).

Yes there is punishment for critical thought.  I know a woman who was disfellowshiped for disagreeing with a point and having voiced her questions and concerns.  They called her an apostate.  

The statement that they don't want you to stray is bull.  Nobody has any business telling to what to do, say or think.

You ask why should one stay if they disagree with something, I ask you why not?  I have many times in my life disagreed with my mother or son.  I love them no less and would certainly never pull emotional blackmail like "agree with me or I will cut you off".

I would not trust my purse to a group of strangers in New York, let alone major decisions about my relationship with God.

You have no idea how I would like to drop kick the governing body off of something tall.

Truth is truth.  Truth can't be altered, hurt, marred or changed - no matter how much you may try.  If the Witnesses have it why all the fear, why the removal from those who disagree?

I can find essays explaining specifically how the Watchtower Org is a cult if you care to see them.  (Let me know.)

For the record, I think individual witnesses are for the most loving, sincere and truly devout people.  It's the organization and it's leadership I take issue with.



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- Leslie
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 12:39 PM on February 19, 2004 | IP
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yes i would like to see those essays.  Please tell me why you consider it ok to call a certain religion a cult?   You a disrespecting many peoples beliefs and are being quite rude.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 6:35 PM on February 19, 2004 | IP
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I will hunt up some information over the weekend.

It is not the beliefs are at issue here.  I personally have learned much from Witnesses.  As I said, what classifies it as a cult is how the organization is run.

Whether something is cult is not a matter of opinion, nor am I trying to be rude.  There are academic guidelines that make an organization a cult.  Cult experts agree that the Watchtower Society is one.  These are experts in sociology and psychology, not people with any agenda against any group.

I am not spouting my personal opinion here.  It is a matter of record in academia that this organization is a cult.  I came to learn of this and why it was so categorized, I myself did not make the diagnoses.







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- Leslie
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 9:26 PM on February 19, 2004 | IP
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Either Jito couldn't find anything or she jumped off a cliff.  Either way she still has no substatial evidence.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 6:33 PM on February 26, 2004 | IP
    
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