Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

CON Forum
» back to
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register Forum
   Religon Debates
     Do you follow the veiled Gospe
       1 Peter 3:21 - Veiled Gospel

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin

unworthy servant

|     |       Report Post

Post Score

Rate this post:

Do you follow the veiled Gospel or the nonveiled Gospel?

According to the Apostles and Christ, the gospel was veiled or hid from certain people. That is why Christ and the apostles (the imitators of Christ) spoke in parables and riddles.

II Corinthians 4:3 - And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that are perishing.

Proverbs 1:6 - to understand a proverb and a figure, the words of the wise and their riddles.

Matthew 13:15 - for this people's heart has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes, lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

What was Christ's reasoning for this?

Matt 13: 16-17 - But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them; and to hear what you hear, and have not heard them. Therefore hear the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the Word of the kingdom and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown by the wayside.

II Thessalonians 2:10  - and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So, according to Christ, the followers of the other Jesus, (2 Cor 11:4; Gal 1:8-9) who preached the nonveiled gospel, would not be saved along with the nonbelievers.(Psalms 14:1; 53:1) The only difference between the two would be:

1.The nonbelievers never believed Jesus and rejected Him .
2. The believers of the other Jesus,  loved the other Jesus more than the real Jesus [so they were true believers, but they were true believers in a lie].

So, what is the veiled and the nonveiled gospel?

The veiled gospel is a riddle with interconnecting pieces that must be put together for the correct answer to appear..  The nonveiled gospel, is not a riddle but a confusing mess caused by the “pick and chose “ method of Scriptural application (Ex: Matt 15:3-6; Mark 7:6-13; Isaiah 29:13). It is made up of pieces that are supposed to interconnect but only parts of the pieces are acceptable to the followers of the other Jesus, so it gives a false answer. Both  the true Christians, along with the believers of the other Jesus, believe that future Christians are saved by Grace.  The difference between the two is how they are saved by grace.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

II Timothy 1:9 -  Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

However, this is were the confusion begins, on how we are saved by grace.  Some say:

1.“All you have to do is to believe and you are saved by grace” Nothing else is required.
2.“All you have to do is to  believe and repent to be saved by grace” Nothing else is required.
3.“You have to believe, repent and be baptised by immersion to be saved by grace.”

Since we are saved by grace, we should look for ALL the Scriptures that talk about being saved.  Here they are:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Mark 16:15-16 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

Acts 2:37-40 - Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him. And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

1 Peter 3:21 - The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

To summarize each verse let's cut them down to basic components:

Ephesians 2:8Grace ----> Saved through faith
Mark 16:15-16Believes + Baptized = Saved
Acts 2:37-40  Repents + Baptized = Saved
1 Peter 3:21Baptism = Saved

Few.  Why?  The question was asked and answered in Matt 7: 21-23 and Luke 13:23-30.  Will everyone who believes and calls on the name of the Lord be saved?  No. The double witness is in Exodus 4:21; 9:27 and Romans 9:6-23.  Just because you believe and repent doesn't mean you are saved.  How many are chosen?  Few. (Matthew 22:14) How many of the followers of the other Jesus will be wailing and  gnashing their teeth saying “Lord,Lord”?  Many. They are the ones that did not not have the love of the truth.
(A side note: baptism as an adult, since Christ, as an adult (Matt 3:13-17), was baptized. Also, since Christ was buried in a tomb [totally enclosed or covered], baptism is immersion (Acts 13:29 ; Romans 6: 4-7) – another couple of puzzle pieces thrown out by the other Jesus).

What fits all the characteristics of the veiled gospel?  The pieces that all fit together that make one complete picture or the pieces that are “cut to fit” that do not make the proper picture?  The pieces that all fit together as faithful witnesses (2 Cor 13:1).  Who knew the mind of Christ better than Christ and the apostles (1 Cor 2:16)?

How are we save by Grace?  Reduced to common denominators we have:

Grace = Believes + Repents + Baptized (by immersion + as an adult) = Saved through faith

Do many or few believe the veiled gospel as:

Grace = Believes + Repents + Baptized (by immersion + as an adult) = Saved through faith

Which gospel is spoken against everywhere?  Saved by Grace through belief but without baptism or Saved by grace through baptism?   Saved by grace through baptism.

Acts 28:22  -  But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we
know that every where it is spoken against.

Which gospel do you serve, the veiled or the unveiled gospel?

(Edited by unworthy servant 4/30/2004 at 11:33 AM).


Posts: 196 | Posted: 11:25 PM on March 16, 2004 | IP
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread


Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.