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     Proof of Jesus' Existance
       First reliable proof found

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thistownwilleatu

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I've always thought it funny that so many people believed in his existance, not necessarily that he was the son of God, but that he existed, when there was no real definitive proof.  It was like a given that he existed.  Anyway, check this out it's really cool.

Here's the link:  http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20021021/jesus.html

First Proof of Jesus Found?
By Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery News
 
Click to See the Inscription  

In Depth: Jesus: The Full Story  

On TV: Watch "Unsolved History"  



Oct. 21 — The first archaeological evidence of Jesus' existence has come to light, literally written in stone, according to one of the top world experts in deciphering ancient Near East inscriptions.

"Amazing as it may sound, a limestone bone box, called an ossuary, has surfaced in Israel that may once have contained the bones of James, the brother of Jesus," André Lemaire, professor of Hebrew and Aramaic philology and epigraphy at the Sorbonne University in Paris, wrote in the upcoming issue of Biblical Archaeology Review.

"We know this because an extraordinary inscription incised on one side of the ossuary reads in clear Aramaic letters: 'James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus,'" he wrote.

Discovery Discovery Channel


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 3:33 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Imagine how inadequate James must have felt, being the brother of the son of God.
"Oh yeah your brother is the son of God right?"
"Why can;t you be more like your brother?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 3:36 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
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   Jesus of Nazareth is as established as any one else in history, even before this discovery. We have Josephus (historian of the first century) mentioning Jesus,"...a man named James, the brother of Jesus, who was called the Christ...". That was from the historical work "The Antiquities". That work holds water in the eyes of nearly every scholar (there is no dispute over it). Then we have a piece in "Testimonium Flavianum", also by Josephus, that tells us about Jesus. Just to get a little of it down,"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call Him a man.... When Pilate, upon hearing Him accused by men of the highest standing among us, had condemned Him to be crucified.... On the third day He appeared to them restored to life...." Keep in mind that we have found the historical accounts recorded by Josephus to be extremely accurate, and all of his works have gained him a vast amount of credibility. Now let's take a look at Tacitus, one of the most renowned historians of the time. He recorded,"Nero fasened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had it's origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievious superstitution, thus checked out for the moment, agian broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome.... an arrest was made of all who pleaded guilty... an immense multitude was convicted."  From Tacitus' reports we find out that: the Christ was crucified under Pontius Pilate, miricles must have had skeptics calling it a "mischievious superstitution", that it "checked out for the moment" when Christ was crucified but broke back out dispite the persecution the followers were being subjected to (they saw Christ ressurected and that propelled them to follow Him agian),  and they could have saved themselves by not pleading guilty but instead (they were so filled with God's power) they took the penalty and would not deny their Master.  So even the absolutly anti-Christian sources give us confirmation to Jesus' character.
Let's see what Plint the Younger says about the Christian faith, as another non-Christian first century source. (he also went into the early second century)  "I asked them if they were Christians, and if they admit it, I repeat the question a second and third time, with warning of the punishment awaiting them. If they persist, I order them to be led away for execution...I am convinced that their stubbornness and unshakable obstinacy ought not to go unpunished.... They also declared that the sum total of their guilt or error amounted to no more than this: they had met regularly before dawn on a fixed day to chant verses alternately amongst themselves in honor of Christ as if to a god...This made me decide it was all the more necessary to extract the truth by torture from two slave-woman, whom they called deaconesses. I found nothing but a degenerate sort of cult carried to extravagant lengths."   From this obviously non-Christian document from about A.D. 111, we can gather alot of information. We learn how they knew that Christ was God, how thay were so strong in their faith thay were willing to be slaghtered by the bunches (this would not have been the case had not Christ ressurected), and we learn that they were guilty of nothing other than worshiping Christ.
   -In fact Simon Greenleaf, the founder of the Harvard University of Law, was very skeptical of Christs existence, and was seen as a skeptic. When He, however, looked over the evidence, and dissmissed anything that was not concrete, he came to an interesting conclusion. He found that not only was history showing that Jesus was a real figure, but he found that the death and ressurection is as established as any other event in human history, based on the evidence.
    -Scholar's date the texts of the new testament all before 96 A.D.. In fact, scholars (even non-Christian)  have brought back some of the Gospels to less than 7 or 8 years after Christ. These accounts would have never made it to us today had they not been accurate, especially given the almost immediate vast production of these accounts. If the Roman's had the ability to prove these events to be false thay would have jumped on the opportunity. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God..."  2 Timothy 3:16

     Benjamin, A soldier of the Cross
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:45 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
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seems like good stuff....
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:35 PM on January 3, 2003 | IP
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I can confirm the previous guest's claim about Jesus being written up by secular historians of his time.  I had the complete works of Josephus at one time.  I have since donated them to a library.  I also have read tacitus and Pliny the Younger.  All of these men were not writing as a support for Jesus.  In fact, they were hostile to Jesus and Christians.  Therefore, their writings cannot be shrugged off as the Bible often is.

What makes me wonder at times is this.  The bible is also history.  Just because it was written by men who knew Jesus first hand and who followed him, does not make it mythology.  

Before anyone should take this view, they should have enough integrity to look into the claims, to see if the writers had some alterior motive.  that is, would they be lying to gin some kind of material wealth, some power in society, or some kind of prestige that could be used to their advantage.

Quite the contrary, the writers of the New Testament gave up all worldy wealth to spread the message and they suffered greatly for it.  11 of them died martyrs.  They were looking for rewards that only came after they gave up their mortal shell.  Would they do this for a lie?  Were they crazy?  Their actions would not support this.

The next item that I'd like to mention is that contrary to what many think.  The Bible is the most supported book of antiquity that there is.  And that is not by a little margin.    That is in both the time of the earliest manuscripts being close to the time of Christ, and the total number of manuscripts available.

No other book of antiquity comes even even close to being supported as strongly by the evidenc as does the Bible.  

I don't have the time at the moment to give all the details and the sources of information.  Perhaps I will come back to give this later.  But for now I can opint you to Josh McDowell's book More than a Carpenter.  There are several other books that give empirical evidence for looking seriously atht ehclaims about Christ.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:57 AM on October 28, 2003 | IP
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  "First reliable proof"...I almost laughed inside at whoever thinks its cool to even attempt to pull such a stunt.
ha ha.

  Even His Death and Resurrection is PROVEN.
Can anyone say, "Jesus IS the son of God". His Death burial and Resurrection proves it. And as we approach the time we honor His birthday, maybe you should take a little time to consider the real meaning of the season, cause I assure you; you can believe in "santa" and his "elves" all you want, but they will never be able to forgive your sins or to rise from the grave. Saint Nick (who was a real person) is dead in his grave just like buddah, mohammad, and any other false prophet.

Benjamin  

               bensaved2001@hotmail.com
           
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:23 AM on November 18, 2003 | IP
alliwantisalife

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What if this was a different jesus?   In the spanish language jesus is a common name although it is pronounced (hey-sues).  Maybe it was a common name in ancient Aramaic?
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 7:08 PM on February 10, 2004 | IP
sidney

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Actually, Jesus was a common name. It was a name that many mothers wanted to give their sons simply because it meant "God is salvation."

But I don't think we need further proof that Jesus actually lived on Earth. That's an accepted fact. It's the God thing that's sometimes hard to prove.


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God: Don't make me come down there.
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 10:00 PM on March 3, 2004 | IP
alliwantisalife

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It isn't a really accepted fact.  If it was then everyone would be religious.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 10:49 PM on March 5, 2004 | IP
Blasphemy

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If jesus was anything, he was a fundamentalist, with fundamentalist beliefs.

If he was the son of god, why didn't he use his powers more effectively? all he would allegedly have to do is say the word and disease would be gone. Why didn't he raise everyone from the dead? Why did the people he healed still die? Did they die of the same thing as they did the first time they died?

Don't you think a dead man coming back to life would have aroused more interest than it did?

I reckon if a dead guy came back to life, that guy would still be alive, because of this mythical power.


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Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 1:19 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Um, Jesus is still alive.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:48 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

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Then where is he? Are you saying he's a ghost?


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Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:21 AM on January 16, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Have ye not read?  He is ascended unto heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father.  Anyone who has ever visited a second grade Sunday School could tell you that.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 1:09 PM on January 16, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

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And it's about what I'd expect to hear from a 2nd grade class. Talk of ghosts.


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Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 1:13 PM on January 16, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Chuckle.  I knew you couldn't some up with an intelligent rebuttal.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 1:23 PM on January 16, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

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What intelligent rebuttal would you like me to make to an insuation that I have never been in a second grade Sunday School class?

That  in itself is far from an intelligent statement.  

If you want intelligent responses, don't take such an infantile approach to discussion.


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Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 2:02 PM on January 16, 2006 | IP
    
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