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     Objectivity of Religions
       Yes I said it!

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got_dooie

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I was asked to make a topic to discuss how religions are NOT subjective.  So here it goes.

Religions in themselves ARE NOT subjective.  They hold a set of truths, or beliefs if you will, that their followers believe in.  Now if the followers believe in these teachings, then they follow this religion if they do not, then they don't.  Religions hold truths within themselves, what is taught is the understanding of these truths.  Needless to say, understanding of truths may be distorted.  Example:  The Catholic tradition of understanding certain truth is that murder is wrong, however, if one day the church says that it's ok to murder people (this is not to say that it will happen) then it is the understanding of the Church that has changed, not the truth of the religion itself.  Another example: If there are 1 million Catholics in the world and 3/4 of them do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.  Then the truth (no pun intended) is that you could only say that there are 250 thousand catholics in the world, not 1 million.  Opinions may change, truth of religion does not change.

Aquinas addressed this issue with how we understand God.  We understand the to a certain extent "that what God is."  But we DO NOT FULLY understadn "what God is."  Therefore our interpretations of the truth can vary, hence the different religions.  Yet religions, in themselves, remain objective.

(Edited by got_dooie 4/21/2005 at 10:37 AM).

(Edited by got_dooie 4/21/2005 at 10:39 AM).


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I always live in the past, the present is not not, the future is not yet, therfore only the past.
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 10:33 AM on April 21, 2005 | IP
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but aren't these 'truths' held to be true by people's beliefs - i.e. subjective interpretation?

you say that 'our interpretations of the truth can vary, hence the different religions'. So, do you mean to say that there are these 'universal truths' that exist to all, yet are interpreted differently (hence different religions)? (this is more clarifying question for your argument)

btw, thanx for posting the thread!
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 09:45 AM on April 22, 2005 | IP
got_dooie

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Interpretations of truth may vary, yet truth in itself holds the very essence of truth.  Therefore, interpretation can change but truth remains untouched.  Truth within religions DO NOT change, the views of the people upon that truth may change, yet the truth reamains that of itself.  Personal interpretation in now way destroys the truth that is constant.  Now the question would be revelation.  

For revalation, I don't really feel like explaining all this so here's the link for you to find out about faith and reason.  How revelation is truth.  Both links posted below USE PHILOSOPHICAL ARGUMENTS based on reason...some faith...but not all.  Please read if you want to continue discussing because otherwise it is a waste of both of our time for you to state arguments already addressed in this document.

The encyclical of John Paul II on faith and reason.

Encyclical of John Paul II on Faith and Reason

(Edited by got_dooie 4/22/2005 at 12:16 PM).


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I always live in the past, the present is not not, the future is not yet, therfore only the past.
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 12:07 PM on April 22, 2005 | IP
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well...i really don't have that kind of time...but i will get through it eventually. But, can i just say:

Basically, religions (and their practise) rely on faith. It's all very well to claim that religions can be objective through the 'truths' within them, but religions themselves rely on the faith of those who follow their teachings in order to continue to exist. Faith is subjective - it requires belief without substantiation of truth.

Objectivity somes through being dispassionate, impartial, and detached. If you are relying on faith alone, you cannot be these things. To have faith in something, you are doing so with emotional attachment, as you require no proof in your belief.

Religions and their practise cannot be fully objective, as faith (or belief without proof) will always be a key factor in that institutions survival - and faith is subjective.
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 08:01 AM on April 26, 2005 | IP
    
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