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Peter87

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I was just wondering how people viewed the muslim religion, in specific countries or in general?

p.s. I'll give my opinions after I see yours.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 5:32 PM on April 30, 2005 | IP
Carns

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in order to avoid saying something ignorant, i'll research islam first and then make a post because i only know a little at this point.





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Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:08 PM on April 30, 2005 | IP
K8

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It certainly has had a lot of bad press lately, and i think that is quite unfortunate because, from what i know/have heard, it's not so unlike Christianity and the like (in morals and such - not methods of worship, etc.).
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:08 AM on May 1, 2005 | IP
Carns

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i recently read a short book by harun yahya called "basic tenets of islam".

it's actually a very good description of what islamic beliefs are, and i found it very informative. we'll start with a couple differences between islam and my own faith to get discussion rolling.


now, i don't agree with all of their tenets of faith, there are several discrepancies. in case anybody consider's them the same religion, they are most definately not. that said, I will point out points of agreement as i go along so this becomes a discussion rather than an argument.

islam teaches creation in six days, but explicity states that god did not rest, because of his all-powerful nature. Allah is simple to describe. he is perfect. They believe that for god to rest  would mean god isn't all-powerful. interesting thought. This is basically a refusal to admit complexities in God's character. God is simply perfect. No explanation. at this point i would like to point out that this means they either believe the world could not have been created faster than 6 days, or God is not all-powerful. so while i agree with the "all-___" description of god, i think it's simplicity is it's downfall.

Second, as far as i can tell, they believe god is all good (benevolent) i infer this from all-gracious all-compassionate... "good pleasure of god" things like this lead me to believe that they believe god is all-good. they also believe that god has control over everything (including satan) apparantly satan can't do anything not including in the will of god. Now, questions frequently asked like "why do bad things happen to good people" can be answered by christianity, but i fail to see how they are answered by islam (at least in a pleasant way) since essentially, god controls all things, good and bad... i may have misunderstood this aspect of islam. please feel free to correct my understanding.

anyways... i'll tie this up for now... while There are a lot of good things in islam, overall, its in contradiction to the Gospel of Christ, This by default puts me in disagreement with islam, but i do admire many aspects of it and there is a lot christians can learn from islamic faith....

(this admission is mutual, for islam recognizes clearly the benefit of the torah and gospel, but maintains that it is distorted and impure while the quran is pure and undefiled)




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Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 8:24 PM on May 17, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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*claps* nice. I can't disagree with your post all, thats nice to see.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 2:56 PM on May 18, 2005 | IP
Blasphemy

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Islam, like Christiandom is a montheistic religion with many  of the same principals inherent in all monotheistic religions throughout history. If you do not adhere to Islams beliefs, you are an infidel (unbeliever), just like you are under Christianity. Both religions have a violent and bloody history.


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Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 12:26 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Sad, but true.  Most "professed believers" of the major religions do not examplify the very tennets of their faith.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:37 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

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Islam - When you just can't get enough prophecy about a fictional moniothiestic god...

Create a new book and a new religion, and as always, SLAUGHTER THE UNBELIEVERS! Yay!


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Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 3:33 PM on January 16, 2006 | IP
Jvel

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it's nice that you did your research on this one, unlike some people who just start speaking about what they know nothing about. I'm muslim and I didn't know about the creation in six days, although I think it probably has something to do with days of the week. Secondly, i would like to point out that in Islam Allah (swt) is not seen as All Gracious and All Merciful but rather Most Gracious and Most Merciful. It's probably a translating error because we do believe that God punishes people. And yes, He does have control over saytan, and if He wanted to He could have everyone follow His will like the Angels do.  I hope this answered your question if you have anymore please give them.
by the way it's monothesic *winks*
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 07:58 AM on July 21, 2008 | IP
nkanji

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to Carns: if u ever come back to this post...lol

ok, i comprehend your misunderstandings on some of the concepts of Islam...

We believe Allah is all powerful, and the concept of him creating the heavens and the earth in six days. Allah only has to command, "be" and it is. The process of creation was so immense, it took time for the objects to form, as Allah did not form them spontaneously, although he would if he willed. I do not know why he did not, and will leave that to his divine wisdom.

The fact that Satan is under gods power: TRUE. However, if you look at the expulsion of Satan from Gods mercy, when he refused to bow down to Adam, we see (in the Quran) that satan, who used to be a believer in god, asked for a "reward" for the deeds he had done before he was expelled. God promised to grant him his wishes, the first one being living to the day of judgement, and the second, letting him do what he wants...Satan thus vows to lead mankind astray, but God reminds him the truthful will never be taken in by him....This serves as a test for mankind: to see how strong we are to resist the temptation of committing sin.

Also, there is no compulsion in religion. this is stated expicitly in the Quran...islam is a peaceful religion...those who go to the extremes have misunderstood the religion due to thier ignorance.

I hope this helps....if confused, do not hesitate to ask.
merci
gracias
asante
thankyou


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Fortune favours the brave, he who hesitates is lost....
 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 2:50 PM on October 25, 2008 | IP
dubie903

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Quote from nkanji at 2:50 PM on October 25, 2008 :

...Satan thus vows to lead mankind astray, but God reminds him the truthful will never be taken in by him....This serves as a test for mankind: to see how strong we are to resist the temptation of committing sin.





May I ask just exactly how powerful is mankind to resist sin?





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Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.<br>
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 10:23 PM on October 25, 2008 | IP
nkanji

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How powerful is mankind to resist sin??

good question...
God has allowed mankind to believe or disbelieve in him by mankinds own free will....thus, if u truly believe, u will try your best to resist sin, as u know god has made it a sin due to some reason. he never does things without a reason. So when you are about to commit a sin, u will find something inside you telling you not to do it because god will not be pleased.
However, no one is perfect, and as human beings, we have a tendency to make mistakes....therefore, looking at the Quran, we see god says, that if mankind commits a sin, s/he should repent and ask gods forgiveness....he will forgive. its a promise. but you also have to vow to try not to commit sin again.
In short, u commit sin due to your own actions. satan cannot force you. he can only lure you. so your resistance to sin depends on your will power. how hard are you prepared to try not to be lured by Satan?? answer this question and u will know exactly how vulnerable you are...

hope this helps, if not, get back to me
always ready to help....only with discussion can we understand each  others views better, rather than use violence.


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Fortune favours the brave, he who hesitates is lost....
 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 07:52 AM on October 26, 2008 | IP
dubie903

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Quote from nkanji at 07:52 AM on October 26, 2008 :
....therefore, looking at the Quran, we see god says, that if mankind commits a sin, s/he should repent and ask gods forgiveness....he will forgive. its a promise. but you also have to vow to try not to commit sin again.



So just exactly how powerful is man over sin?  Man is powerless over sin.  We being born in a sinful nature are dead in sin, we have no power inside of us, no strength in our own will to conquer sin.  Sin in man will always have power over mankind.  While mankind may know that there is good and evil, I really don't believe man always considers his actions as evil or sin, because in a sinful nature our wicked heart deceives us.  Sin shows itself in many different ways; selfishness, pride, lust, greed, envy, and it always starts in the heart.  The unrepentent heart is powerless over sin, and there is only one in all of humanity that conquered sin, and His name is Jesus Christ.  He is the Son of God who lived a perfect life to die as payment for our sins.  God can only forgive you when you put your faith in the life, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ.  He is the one who gives you the power to overcome sin through the power of the Holy Spirit, because man in his own strength is powerless over sin.

Would love to hear your point of view.




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Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.<br>
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 6:55 PM on October 26, 2008 | IP
nkanji

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i see what you are saying....
"Man is powerless over sin"- i disagree with your statement. As stated before, we choose our own actions...no one ever forces us to do anything. We do have the strength to stay away from sin, whether it be, as you stated, in the form of selfishness, pride, lust, greed, envy may sometimes overcome our will to resist sin, thus causing us to indulge in something God is not pleased with. I agree with the fact that it all starts in the heart. And as you so rightly say, the UNREPENTANT heart is powerless. Humans are not perfect, and the omniscient God knows that. We are the best of his creation, but we are NOT perfect. hence we sin. Repent, and you see that you will actually have more control over what you do if you are truly repentant.
I cannot fully explain this concept, as i do not posess the knowledge, or the full understanding as yet on the full view of Islam on Sin, as i am still a student, trying to expand my knowledge. i would thus like to refer you to a web page which explains my argument more clearly:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1158658484785&pagename=Zone-English-Living_Shariah%2FLSELayout

Your point of view is from a chrisitan point of view, and the above website shows the islamic view. i do not know enough about your religion to compare, but if anything strikes you as being similar between the two religions in this concept, pls get back to me as i am currently looking into the similarities between these two great religions...

finally, a question:
You say you are powerless over sin, when u lie, do you not feel u shud not be doing it cos its a sin??? thus being able to decide on lying or telling the truth??
pls get back to me, this is turning out to be quite interesting....


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Fortune favours the brave, he who hesitates is lost....
 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 1:41 PM on October 27, 2008 | IP
catstye cam

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I just wanted to make 2 points.

1-Creation in 6 days.
We know from the  Qur'an  that Allah created the world in 6 days, but we are also told that, for Allah, a 'day' can mean 50,000 years or more .
In other words, we haven't been given a definite timespan for the Creation.

2-Sin
dubie903 wrote
'We being born in a sinful nature are dead in sin, '
...this is the opposite to the Islamic view.
We believe that man is born  free of sin, and with the inclination to do good.
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 03:28 AM on June 3, 2010 | IP
    
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