PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Religon Debates
     God and Gender Equality

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
K8

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Does god encourage equality between males and females?

If so, why is it not practiced by so many religions?


 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:01 AM on May 4, 2005 | IP
Carns

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

first of all, we will have to address each individual religion's respective deity(ies) separately because they hold different beliefs.

my understanding of the god of the bible is that he encourages the unique role of the man and the woman. they were not created to be equal, they were created to accompany eachother, each with different affinities and strengths, along with weaknesses and vices that are best complimented when joined together. Throughout the bible, there are passages which people always think are anti-equality, but duality isn't derogatory.. man and woman are alongside, not one above the other, and i believe the bible supports this idea.



-------
Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 5:53 PM on May 4, 2005 | IP
K8

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Genesis 3
16: Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Am i interpreting this incorrectly when i say that "rule over thee" implies that women should be subject to men? (i've also read in another version "woman shall be subject to man"). Please comment
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 03:17 AM on May 5, 2005 | IP
Peter87

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."
                             -I Corinthians 11:9

This is a quote that somone used in the gay right thread as an anti homosexual biblical quote.
However in no way does that touch on homosexuality, but that is a sexist comment...
Man isn't womens but woman is mans? again please explain how I have misinterprited this quote...


-------
Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 3:49 PM on May 5, 2005 | IP
K8

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

oh, good spotting there - i never saw that one!
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 09:06 AM on May 6, 2005 | IP
Carns

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

well that verse obviously isn't about homosexuality... but i don't see how it's sexist either, paul's teaching about prayer and reminding the people that woman came from man, and was created for man (as a companion to him).... what's do you think is sexist about this?



-------
Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:57 PM on May 7, 2005 | IP
K8

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

what about my Genesis quote???
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:09 PM on May 7, 2005 | IP
Peter87

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Hes says that the man is not for the woman. Therefore yes even if the women was made for man to be his companian, but man doesn't have the same role for woman. And also women were made to be mens companian, thats sexist by its self, women were made for men in the first place.


-------
Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 09:12 AM on May 8, 2005 | IP
Carns

|      |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

well for a second, i disagreed with you, but i checked the definition of sexism, and i guess it is by definition, but i dont see the problem with it.

1 : prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2 : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

this would fall into category #2, i thought sexism was solely defined by #1's definition. in our culture, it doesn't make sense to have clearly defined social roles... but go back to farm days, and it makes sense to have defined roles... its not viewed as a bad thing, because it utilizes the appropriate strengths to the families advantage... but in any G7 large city, you could be a single 30 y/o professional woman.... these socially defined roles which work so well in farm-type life don't really apply here. in our culture i see how it is a negative thing, but that wasn't the culture of the day, so it wasn't sexist at the time, it just seems like it now because we're in a very different socio-economic environment where male/female should have equal opportunities.



-------
Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 9:12 PM on May 8, 2005 | IP
K8

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

so, should certain religions (e.g. Catholics) amend their approach to gender equity? Are they wrong in their discrimmination against women in the church?
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 02:53 AM on May 9, 2005 | IP
Peter87

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

like you say the times have changed.


-------
Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 11:14 AM on May 9, 2005 | IP
unworthy servant

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

There is no such thing as "equal rights" in Christianity.  It is only found in the pseudo-christian church.






-------
WE MUST OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN - ACTS 5:29
 


Posts: 196 | Posted: 4:12 PM on May 13, 2005 | IP
Box of Fox

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

*Laughs* Aren't you cute, Unworthy? I see that you back of your claims using Bible passages. No where in the Bible does a piece of evidence explain what this 50% is (of women get divorced.) Did you mean in America? Do you actually believe that over 50% of women in America are married, and the other 50% are divorced? Or did you mean the world? Showing us a post like that is really conceded.

Furthermore, you state that men should have priority over women. Guess what: The primary groups of animals in which males dominant over females are other mammals.

Silverback gorillas. Orangutans. Chimpanzees. Evolutionarily speaking, these species are human's closest relatives. In all cases, the male has priority in most interactions. Unworthy, the only justication you have for wanting men to be dominant over females is that you are a mammal, and that other mammals like it that way. How pathetic. You are far more "natural" and "wordly" than you think.

Wow. Don't I sound radical, or foolish to you, Unworthy? Its because I'm arguing like you now. With bias and rationalizing instead of real evidence.

(Edited by Box of Fox 5/13/2005 at 6:10 PM).
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 6:09 PM on May 13, 2005 | IP
Lord Iorek

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Unworthy, maybe if you actually talked to women instead of running away you would realize they are as smart and in your case much smarter than you. And if your anti women thing is because they don't  talk to you, maybe you should shower, wear deoderant, and brush those furry animals in your mouth called teeth.


-------
"At the age of six I wanted to be a cook. At seven I wanted to be Napoleon. And my ambition has been growing steadily ever since." - Salvador Dali

Guide the future by the past, long ago the mould was cast. - Rush
 


Posts: 121 | Posted: 9:47 PM on May 20, 2005 | IP
Peter87

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

or possibly stop telling them they are scum ;) worked for me lol... no I was nether sexist....
He don't get him to explain the pictures, its not like its his own work now is it. They are clearly stolen from some web site some where.


-------
Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 06:12 AM on May 21, 2005 | IP
Lord Iorek

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Who teaches you these lies... (I bet he says Bible... but I know it comes from another person's opinions)


-------
"At the age of six I wanted to be a cook. At seven I wanted to be Napoleon. And my ambition has been growing steadily ever since." - Salvador Dali

Guide the future by the past, long ago the mould was cast. - Rush
 


Posts: 121 | Posted: 1:01 PM on May 21, 2005 | IP
K8

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from unworthy servant at 4:12 PM on May 13, 2005 :
There is no such thing as "equal rights" in Christianity.  It is only found in the pseudo-christian church.






Question Unworthy - why do you feel that women should be treated as inferior to men? (i assume you believe that...please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)

 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 02:21 AM on May 23, 2005 | IP
Blasphemy

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Yes, the gods of Islam and Christianity are male chauvenist pigs. Where do you think the absolutely nonsensical belief that a woman is somehow subordinate to a man come from?

Islam is just more successful at oppression because of all the theistic governments in the middle east and other areas of the world.



-------
Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 12:45 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I thought the belief came from misapplication of the scriptures.  You'd be surprised how many people twist laws (even those of our own country) into perversions of their original intent.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:41 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

No, in fact the belief is quite well promoted in the scriptures.

From the onset when the god creates man, it is implied woman is less because he comes from man. I doubt if evolution actually happened that way.

Throughout the bible a womans place is subservient to man. However, biologically, I would doubt that women are less than men.

To say that a woman is at all subservient to man, or to imply in any way (including some moralistic viewpoint) that women are not completely equal to men is simply chauvinistic.


Throughout the bible this lesson is not only implied but directed.


-------
Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 2:49 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I can't find the word subserviant in my concordance.  Where, precisely, are you getting these ideas?


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 3:04 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

sub·ser·vi·ent  (sb-sûrv-nt)
adj.
1. Subordinate in capacity or function.
2. Obsequious; servile.
3. Useful as a means or an instrument; serving to promote an end.

---

[Latin subservins, subservient-, present participle of subservre, to subserve; see subserve.]

---

sub·servi·ence, sub·servi·en·cy n.
sub·servi·ent·ly adv.




-------
Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 3:11 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Ah, so you're not getting it from the Bible.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 3:13 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Not that specific word. I'm using a non-biliblical term to describe the the bibles wording and assumptions towards women.


-------
Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 3:20 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Exactly.  Assumptions made by men.  Not by God or the authors of the Scriptures.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 4:28 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Assumptions made by men and written down by men into the mythology of the bible.

The two largest monothiestic religions have tried to make women less than men. Women are constantly referred to as something FOR man.



It is written throughout the bible, It is written throughout the Koran.

It would be funny if the sexes were turned around in the bible.

You still haven't explained gods fetish with menstuation???


-------
Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 5:43 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It also commands that husbands love their wives.  Willing to sacrifice themselves for them.  Women were given prominent rolls in the Bible (more so than most other religions).  Are you familiar with Ruth?  Naomi?  Deborah?  Mary?  Abigail? Dorcas?  Hardly an all inclusive list, but you get my point.  Plus, what did God say about woman when he created her?  She was man's "help meet".  Does this mean servant?  No, it means someone "to help", "to share in".  She was considered equal with Adam.  And I've yet to see what "fetish with menstRuation" God supposedly has.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 9:55 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Which version of the creation are you talking about? The one in Genesis 1, or the one in Genesis 2? It can get pretty confusing.


-------
Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 08:41 AM on January 16, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Chapter 2 is an elaboration of the events in chapter 1.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 09:25 AM on January 16, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Chapter 2 is a complete re-write of the creation story and they are incompatible

The order of creation:

Gen Ch 1                                   Gen Ch 2

1. plants                                  1.Adam
2. animals                                2. plants
3. human beings                      3.animals
(male & female together)         4. Eve

And what do you mean an elaboration? If it were to elaborate on the the book, it would elaborate by the points, not throw them in a different order. That doesn't make sense.



-------
Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:06 AM on January 16, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Have you studied ancient texts or Hebrew at all?  The tenses used in Genesis 2 allow for Adam to be naming things that were ALREADY created.  Just because it shows Adam naming Gods creation it does not mean that the creation was made AFTER Adam.  And of course Eve follows Adam.  Including them together in Genesis 1 only states that they were created on the same day.  Genesis 2 further explains that Adam had been created first and Eve second.  The term woman was used to signify that she was made (or formed) out of man.  It does not, in any way, suggest a subservient (your word, not found in the bible) position.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 1:03 PM on January 16, 2006 | IP
Blasphemy

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I've studied a lot of ancient history.

So then, in order for God to create a woman, he had to have already created a man, is this correct?

This, regardless of how you look at it implies that a woman was a second thought. Even the god said that he decided that man should not be alone, and so he created man a helper. This would again imply the man being the one in charge.

If this god wanted to make it gender neutral, would he not have created both at the same time?

Irrespective of what order this god allegedly created man, right after he did it, a talking snake supposedly tempted the woman to eat a forbidden fruit.

Now, being that god knows everything, why would he:

A) Create a talking snake capable of fooling the woman?

B) Put a temptation trap out for his first two creations?

C)Punish humanity for all time because these two screwed up.

Let's take that last statement one step further. Your almighty all-loving god creates two people, and one of them is tempted by a talking snake (that the god also created and provided, obviously to set the trap) knowing full well that the woman is going to be tempted and fall into the trap. After all, she's pretty stupid at this point, and so is Adam, neither one knows right from wrong.

This jealous, and unbelievably revenge minded god then decides that because of this one small childish indiscretion, mankind will be put through war after war, natural calamity, disease, illness, and horrors unspeakable to satisy this gods vengeful and murderous nature.

Then without missing a beat he pronounces not only is child birth gonna suck for the women for all time, but all of us have a fiery, never ending death to look forward to just because one person made one small mistake.

An all loving, all powerful god simply would not have the heated anger this ones got, nor would he destroy the creation he just made when he knew from the start that tempting them was going to be easy. Hell, he even supplied the temptor.

I'm sure it's very loving to drown your own children. Especially when they're soooo wicked. And what plants did the animals eat when they got off the boat? The flood would certainly destroyed all plant life. (Have you ever looked at plant life under a lake?)

In order for them to get wicked however, this god had to set a trap and watch man fall into it. Then instead of saying, "Look, I told you not to do that, don't do it again", he says: Now I'm gonna kill you. And not only you, but everyone that comes after you, because what I'm gonna do is transfer your wrong doing to them. Then by default, they will be no good and I'll kill them too.


Sick Logic



-------
Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 3:12 PM on January 16, 2006 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.