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Is America a Christian Nation? 

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/christian_nation.HTM
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 7:43 PM on April 30, 2002 | IP
maria

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This nation was founded on God.  


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DSR
 


Posts: 12 | Posted: 4:52 PM on June 13, 2002 | IP
holsbeke

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I think we were at one time and that is why we became the world power that we are. I also think that the moral decline and the lack of Christian values in this country will be its downfall. I think this is becoming obvious. We are on a downhill roll and picking up speed. Unless there are drastic changes in this country I doubt if God will continue to bless it as He has in the past.


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Patricia Holsbeke
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 9:15 PM on June 22, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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As someone who is Jewish and therefore ignorant on the issue, what exactly are Christian values? Are they burning people at stake, or viciously persecuting them? Perhaps its idly standing by as the holocaust unfolds around them. Or perhaps you are referring to the Jewish values which christianity is so willing to ascribe to itself. In any event, the US was built upon secular values, and it is those values, the respect of all of man kind regardless of religion, that made and will continue to make this nation great.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:41 PM on August 14, 2002 | IP
Jigokusabre

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I agree. Christians have yet to to spell out what "Christian Values" are.

England was a Christian nation, and many who came here ran screaming from that same nation of Christ.

We are a seccular nation, by doctrine.


-------
 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 02:12 AM on August 19, 2002 | IP
Predatorial

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"... And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, UNDER GOD, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."  IF it is not obvious, god is mentioned.  Which god?  Buddha?  One of the Hindu Gods?  Allah?  Of course not.  America is a protestant country, one founded by protestants.  We all know christianity is wrong, and that leads to the corruptness of our country.  Christianity is better explained as a political organization, a special interest group, than a religion.


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We shall win over the Conservatives !
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 1:07 PM on September 5, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Careful, my friend. As...disturbing as I find many conservative christian positions, you're invective is approaching the level that our dear friends the republicans spout at us. I thought liberals are better because we are tolerant. Being tolerant to minorities does not give us the right to be bigoted towards the majority.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:24 PM on September 5, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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I am pretty sure this is right, the under god part was added sometime in the 50's as a big FU to the soviets because of there athiest stand.  That might be completely false but I am pretty sure its right.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:24 AM on September 10, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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you're right. It was to prove we weren't Godless commies (instead, we proved we didn't care about minority religious opinions. Ah, you win some, u lose some.)


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 11:46 AM on September 10, 2002 | IP
Predatorial

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I think we should call Christianity a special interest group rather than a religion.  There is so much politics and corruption that it reminds me of a political organization


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We shall win over the Conservatives !
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 8:57 PM on September 10, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Unfortunately, yes.  "In god we trust" on coins, "one nation, under god" in the pledge of allowance  Err, allegiance.  "Swear to tell truth, so help you god?" in court.  And i thuoght seperation of church and state was an ammendmant...


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:31 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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actually technically its not. its an interpretation of the 1st amendment, but it isnt written in anywhere


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 5:41 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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But america is still based on christian laws.  Personally, if i could murder, i would.

(Edited by Exxoss 10/17/2002 at 10:44 AM).


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:17 AM on September 26, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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actually to be precise, america is based off of John Locke's theories on govt.. It's laws, if u really want a religious spin on them, would be based off Judiasm (christianity hasn't come up with anything all that original except roasting sinners on stakes).


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:02 PM on September 26, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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(lol.Roasting sinnerS)  I've never heard anything on a john locke, but thats probably true.  With the propaganda they feed to people nowadays in middle school...

However, you have to admit that even though America is not ment to be christian based, it is at least somewhat.  "Under god"  I don't think the founding fathers wanted America to be based on the belief that god is the only god...


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:18 PM on September 26, 2002 | IP
Chai

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Whether or not we say we are a Christian nation, we still are, simply because of the overwhelming amount of Christians who are unaware that other religions actually exist and care about them.
 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 10:25 AM on September 27, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Yeah, christians are not the only people in US.  But they think that since others are not chirstian, they are damned, and should be shunned.  It is simply a matter of piigheadedness.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:28 AM on September 27, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Quote from dsadevil at 4:02 PM on September 26, 2002 :
actually to be precise, america is based off of John Locke's theories on govt.. It's laws, if u really want a religious spin on them, would be based off Judiasm (christianity hasn't come up with anything all that original except roasting sinners on stakes).


Roasting snners on stakes eh? would you mind finding the refrence in the bible to that for me?  If you want to know what Christian values are, go read Proverbs.





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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 8:38 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Quote from Predatorial at 8:57 PM on September 10, 2002 :
I think we should call Christianity a special interest group rather than a religion.  There is so much politics and corruption that it reminds me of a political organization



And tell me, in your indepth understanding of Christianity, would you mind spelling out some of these "politics and corruption" that you state as fact?




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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 9:19 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Quote from Exxoss at 10:28 AM on September 27, 2002 :
Yeah, christians are not the only people in US.  But they think that since others are not chirstian, they are damned, and should be shunned.  It is simply a matter of piigheadedness.



Wow, that isnt a generalization of Christians at all, is it? Lol, Im a christian Exxoss, I dont think anyone should be shunned, especially people who arnt christian, because they are the ones that need to hear the truth.  Does the bible say "shun all those who believe different from you!"? No, it says "love your neighbor as yourself"-Leviticus19:18b Not just your christian neighbor either...So maybe you should do a little research before you go calling us all "piigheaded"




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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 9:28 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
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Quote from Jigokusabre at 02:12 AM on August 19, 2002 :
I agree. Christians have yet to to spell out what "Christian Values" are.

England was a Christian nation, and many who came here ran screaming from that same nation of Christ.

We are a seccular nation, by doctrine.




You want Christain values spelled out? Go read the bible, last time I checked it was pretty spelled out...literely actually...

England was not a christian nation, it was under the church of England at the time the people "ran screaming" from it, and before the church of England it was Catholic, matter of fact the people that left England to escape religious persecution were, you guessed it, Christains.

and by which doctrine did you get that?



-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 9:35 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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my reference to burning sinners at stake comes from a) the catholic church's practice of doing it during the inquistion (remember that according to the catholic church, if the pope says it its divine law). and yes i know, there are other sects of christianity outside catholicsim. however, at that time catholicism WAS christianity. b) also, the salem witch burnings, done by puritans.
next, since i don't keep a copy of the non-tanach portions of the bible around in my house, mind spelling out for us exactly what are "christian values" that weren't thought of first by our friends the jews?
next, christianity shouldnt be a special interest group. agree with you there.
next, did it ever occur to you that maybe being told that our deeply held religious beliefs are heathen lies feels to us like shunning, as opposed to a sentiment of your incredible love and kindness? there is an old saying: "jews are a nervous people. centuries of christian love has worn our nerves down."


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:32 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Why kid ourselves?  We are and always have been a nation under money.  Our government has never done anything whose end wasn't money.  Everything is motivated by greed.  Take a look around, if this is under God, I'm a Nazi.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 4:29 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Our president is a Christian


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 9:26 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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relevant why?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:42 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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well thistownwilleatyou seemed pretty convinced that there was no God in America whatsoever so I was just pointing out that one of our most powerful leaders is a man of God (or so proclaimed, i dont really know him) so it cant be that bad.


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 11:40 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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When Bush is considering the war on Iraq do you really think he sits down and says to himself, "what would Jesus do?"  Come on, stop being naive, and what relevance does the religious pereference of the president have to do with the christian state of the country?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:43 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Come on...you know I'm not saying I think that God is absent from America, but if you know anything about our government beyond what politicians read off a teleprompter to pacify the public it's quite obvious that what I say is true.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:51 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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The presence of evil is not the absence of God.  Ok I will shut up now.  I like you Sakata.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:53 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Ok, uh, I am 16, its not like I sit around all day think about what relevance the religious pereference of the president have to do with the christian state of the country... I heard he's a christain, so I want to trust him.


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 12:10 AM on October 12, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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trusting people because they are christian? seems like weak logic to me. I wouldn't trust Pat Robertson or Pat Buchanan, and they're christian.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:33 PM on October 12, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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I trust 'em.  My brother did campagining for Pat B.  I dont trust them blindly mind you,  but when you can tell they are people of God, there is a certain security know they are your brother or sister.


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 1:43 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
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It's scary how easily a candidate can say "I'am a christain" and the votes pour in.  So you've only heard good things about Pat Buchanan?  What a suprise.  I'd say you've seen his campaign adds on tv.  Why would have heard anything bad?  The truth is that Pat Buchanan is a racist, dabbles in holocaust revisionism, has ties through himself and staff members to white supremecy groups, and while his campaign add was he's alongside the little man, he made a few million in his involvement in the watergate scandal.  He gave an award to Michael Ferris, man who shot and killed an worker at an abortion clinic, beat a policeman into serious condition on a drunken spree in college, called a concentration camp guard on trial a "patriot whose courage in the fight for his country admirable to the highest degree."  He stated that "Hitler was an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier, a man with a vision and the honor to follow it with action, a political organizer of the first rank."  
...But he did say he held to Christian values on his tv commercial, so what reason do I, the easily manipulated voter have to question it?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:46 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
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i can't help but sense many generalizations towards christianity here.  please bear in mind that not all christians burned people at the stake (many did and they were in the wrong) and not all christians use thier faith as a childish way of pretending to be better than everybody else.  it is sad and true that all christians are hypocrites.  the word christian literally means christ-like.  christians are humans and therefore will never be christ-like.  some christians try to live and follow the example set by Christ, others try to shove their "perfection" down the everyone else's throats.  being christian doesn't mean being a good person.  being non-christian doesn't mean being a bad person.  many non-christians have better values than christians.  it can also work vice-versa.  we are all just people and we all have our flaws.  an entire faith can't be judged by the people who screwed up.  you mention christians who burned non-believers at the stake, but what about the christians who died feeding starving children in the hell-holes of this earth?  what about the christians who risked their lives to provide medical attention to the dying in those same places?  what about the christian who took in the homeless guy off the corner, gave him a bath and a hot meal?  indeed there are considerabley fewer of these "good" christians, but their faith cannot be judged so harshly by the ignorance of others who happen to call themselves by the same name.  any faith or religion can be compared to any kind of sport or game or pretty much anything in this world in the respect that some are good at it and some are not


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 11:27 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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no offense to christians as a whole. just pointing out that just because something is christian does not by default make it perfect. christians, just like everyone else, have done terrible things.
oh, and thistownwilleatu had it nailed with pat buchanan. that man scares me. however, i will give him credit on one thing. he is more honest than most politicians. He says what he thinks, not what will get him votes (being racist doesnt get the votes it used to).I dont doubt his sincerety. I just think he is sincerely a scary, scary man.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:10 PM on October 14, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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really? ...well that explains why my brother likes him :p  ...I knew he was incredibly sexist but...


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 11:24 PM on October 14, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Stop quoting people.  We all know what we said.  Its annoying.  And by the by, i said america's PIIGHEADEDNESS not christians, so you misinturpreted.  Americas piigheadedness is that we are based on the belief that christianity is right.  Sure our founding fathers were puritans, but the rhode island place had free religion.


-------
I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:46 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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Sakata,
I am following your posts in different threads (not quite stalking). You say you don't think anyone should be shunned, but but by virtue of believing that christian values should be spread everywhere, you inevitably oppress people. Like gays. Like pot smokers. Like prostitutes (yes, it should be legal). Like people who want to get abortions. I respect that Christians want to convert people, heck if i thought my friend was going to hell i'd put a gun to his head until he converted (if that were possible), cause a life of eternity is a much bigger issue than being mean or pushy to someone in the hear and now. It just so happens that you're dead wrong, and so people like me will fight against religious institutionalism all the way, and we'll win, cause "the meek shall inherit the earth," and trust me, the Christians ain't the meek ones. The Jews and the Moors in the Spanish Inquisition and the Reconquista are. The Jews, Gypsies, and Gays in the Holocaust are. The Africans and South Americans who were bribed with chocolate to convert and then were butchered are. People like Christopher Reeve who have illnesses that could some day lead better lives from cures found from stem cell research if only "your man of God" Pres. Bush would realize he is the leader of America (a country with separation of Church and State whose policies are not supposed to be dictated by the Christian right) and not the Vatican, yup, they too are the meek. If you are such a Christian, why don't you stand up for the underdogs. I dig Jesus. He would be one of my choices for a great dinner guest (along with Lincoln, MLK Jr., and Nietzsche, just to piss everyone off...). But I don't think he would be jiggy with most of the stuff Christians have done in human history...


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:00 PM on October 17, 2002 | IP
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Okay, what I am getting from this is you see me as this big christain who goes around my high school making people all feel intimidated and oppressed because I so "religous" and above all them that they are all oppressed for believeing in what they want.  When in actuality, I am the one looked down upon, I am the one almost all my friends ditched because I would not comform to this worlds standards and was therfore no longer cool, you ask me why I dont stick up for underdogs?  I am an underdog.  You think I am oppressing people? My only friend at school has the complete oposit of christain veiws, you think if she where feeling so oppressed by me she would leave like the rest of our friends did.  Maybe you should see how the christains are mocked and riticuled in public schools before you go pointing fingers.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:25 PM on October 17, 2002 | IP
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ok, I am logged in as Sakata but is says I am guest? grr...
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:25 PM on October 17, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Alexander the Great you are so right, and I applaud you for your willingness to see the other side.  The simple fact is that Christians are often self-righteous hypocrites, we, as an organization, or whatever you call it have been failures since the death of the disciples.  It seems that this Jesus guy has made the part after accepting him pretty hard, near impossible.  We've screwed up pretty terribly, sometimes when I see what we have done I feel the same way, but I find hope in the individual.  The rare individual who takes the whole "love unconditionally" thing seriously.  We forget a lot of times that Christianity isn't about right or wrong and black and white, it is about love.  After all, in his short stay on earth, Jesus never had a problem with anyone, except the "religous" folk, the hypocrites.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 02:45 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
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thistownwilleatu:
assuming you weren't being sarcastic, i feel really bad now for slamming you on other threads (like the abortion thread). I still disagree with u on stuff, but thanx for being nice. I will be nicer too. I am not a Christian, but my parents are major, and so I was raised with that whole, "make love, not war" 'tude too. Maybe we aren't all that different. except for one thing. I am gay, and a hell of a lot more militant than most I know. Actually what i mean is, I am not an activist (cause I'm too lazy), but my attitude is mostly "F--k 'em!" I just I'm sick of trying to explain obvious truths, so i am fed up with religious people who reject basic civil rights for an entire category of people because of some story in some book. I am, and I'm sorry to sound offensive, pretty anti-religion of all kinds. Yes, there are plenty of nice Christians, but not many of them run the show, and never have. Can you blame people who have had the last straw?

And to Sakata, if you honestly think you are an underdog in America because you are Christian, try being gay in a Christian America. Some friends thought you weren't cool cause you didn't swear or have premarital sex or whatever it is you're talking about (I have never seen Christians discriminated against in U.S. schools, but I guess anything is possible), well, boo-hoo. Try having people call you "f-g" all the time. Or having sex with a gender you weren't even attracted to for years because it's pretty darn scary "coming out" to people who think you're a freak. Try not not having the physical expression of your love for some one not even be legal in many states. Try not being able to have your relationship be recognized by the federal gov't, with all the political and economic benefits that come with that. Try just walking down the street holding someone's hand without being strung up on a fence and left to die of exposure. Woah, I just got pretty hardcore...


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:32 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
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No sarcasm.  And you disagreeing with me was not taken on my part as "slamming", you disagreeing with my opinion and you attacking me as a person are two completely diff. things, and thus far you have only disagreed with my opinions.  You've made me think.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 9:24 PM on October 18, 2002 | IP
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SAKATA will you mary me?...im joking but i always agree with you and i love the way you always backup what you say with dignity and a solid reference to the bible...i wish i could find more people like you
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:48 AM on October 21, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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that one asking you to marry me was from me but it said i was a guest for some reason


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:10 AM on October 21, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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lol, thanks, thats very encouraging, I look forward to seeing your contrabutions to the debates!


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 9:47 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
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You have no idea what it is like for Christains in public school Alex, you have never walked in my shoes so you have no right to judge.  The atheist science teachers (they all are) will make fun of you if you dont believe in evolution, we have to write essays about how fish and stuff evolved into people or fail the test, the school newspaper is compleatly liberal from cover to cover, and when christains write in, they send our letters back!  and the gay-straight alliance doesnt exactly seem to be "strung up on a fence and left to die"


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:18 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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OMIGOSH. They make you write PAPERS about FISH???!!! It's like another Holocaust!!!! You got some articles rejected by the school newspaper??!!! Where's the ACLU when you need it??!! Just the fact that these were the examples that you used to compare your situation to that of gays in America makes me wonder if you really do have gay friends, or have even met one, or know anything about or have any notion of or ability to empathize with what it means to live as a gay person in America. and my reference to "strung out on a fence and left to die" was to Matthew Shepherd, who was killed because he was gay. Have they killed a lot of Christians in your public school Sakata? Have the JEWS and MUSLIMS beaten the crap out of a lot fo Christians in your public school? Are Christians in your public school coerced by social pressures to have sex with a gender they are not attracted to? Do Christians lose their jobs often when their employers find out about their TABOO religion? Are you poor repressed Christians not allowed by civil law to have the kind of sex you prefer? Is the plight of Jesus' faithful so great that you aren't even allowed to get married? Hmm, is your enslaved religion often casually compared with pedophilia, even though there is no scientific, legal, or moral equivalency whatsoever? Okay, okay, okay, I got fired up and i'm sure you will respond to all this dramatic stuff i said, but just for the sake of staying on track a bit, here's a few queries. First, could u pretend for a moment that your only reason for not being able to accept gays is because God said so and try and give me ANY other good reasons why it's wrong, or should be illegal, or whatever? Second, could you answer my point about the chances of religion being right and the even lesser chances of your religion being right?


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 01:42 AM on October 22, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I knew that was coming.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 09:32 AM on October 22, 2002 | IP
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Oh, c'mon, I had to. It was fun.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:03 AM on October 22, 2002 | IP
    
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