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Gs- "So if I were you I would delete your post, because I literally shread your argument to pieces. That is my warning. I will do it."
(Mighty tough talk to start with)
Gs- "I refuse to debate, since I will not change your beliefs - since you all will not accept anything I say."
(Sounds like the old 'I'll take my toys and go home! Wah!Wah!Wah!')
Gs- "It's not that they don't agree - its that they are way to close-minded to agree! It's no use!"
(Maybe Gs is not very good at defending his points, so he blames everyone for being close minded. Pretty childish. Not so tough after all.
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Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:22 AM on November 19, 2002 | IP
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thistownwilleatu
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In the words of Strongbad, "HOLY CRAAAP." You might be onto something. Gs is a disgruntled hellfire and brimstone Sakata.
Talk about tangents. Oh yeah, Christian nation, blah blah deist blah, blah blah, jefferson blah.
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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton
"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
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Posts: 341 | Posted: 01:49 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
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beavischrist
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So many of the founding fathers were not christian that it is incorrect to say that christians founded the nation. Also, many like to argue that since some of them, like Washington, mentioned christianity at all means they were christians. What makes more sense, to mention the diety to the populace, the people who vote you into power, in speeches but send your true feelings through letters and in personal situations, or to speak what you really believe in large speeches to masses of people and then play this lie game with your personal friends where you all pretend you don't believe Jesus is god? The debate on this site, for example, quotes Ethan Allen saying something religious in a political context and then mentions he refused to be married under any god other than nature at his wedding. Which sounds like the real belief? The one where he's a politician rousing crowds or the one where he is in a hugely important situation that is very personal to him?
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Posts: 193 | Posted: 3:30 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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Sakata
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Aw, comon guys really, like I am going to make an alter-ego to come get mad at you guys :p I thought you guys would know I dont easily back out debates by now... and I didnt leave, I have just been really busy with school and mock trial and stuff sorry.
Anyway back to the topic...
"I have felt His [God's] hand upon me in great trails and submitted to His guidance, and I trust that as He shall further open the way, I will be ready to walk therein, relying on His help and trusting in His goodness and wisdom."
-Abraham Lincoln
"There is one only God, and he all perfect"
-Thomas Jefferson
"[Providence] has at times been my only dependence for all other resources seemed to have fail'd us."
-George Washington
"The visible marks of extraordinary wisdom and power appear so plainly in all the works of the creation that a rational creature, who will but seriously reflect on them, cannot miss the discovery of a Deity."
-John Locke
"It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe without the agency of a Supreme Being."
-George Washington
"That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself is the sum of religion."
-Tomas Jefferson
(Edited by Sakata 12/4/2002 at 01:23 AM).
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No time for mediocrity.
People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name. |
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Posts: 293 | Posted: 12:37 PM on November 28, 2002 | IP
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dsadevil
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First, FDR knew about the holocaust well before the allies broke through into Germany, in fact, he was recieving reports on it before the US even entered the war. Second, the referance was to the German christians who stood idly by and did nothing.
Second, the US government we live under today is not based on the dec of ind. it is based on the constitution which has no reference to God. So that point is null. Sakata's point actually proves the reverse, because all of our founding fathers who believed strongly in christian morality still felt it desirable not to enforce their own beliefs upon the populace by crafting a state sponsered religion or religious message. This foresight is tragically not shared by their modern christian heirs.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>
Respect through Excellence only |
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Posts: 789 | Posted: 12:32 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
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fallingupwards84
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now i think FDR was our greatest president ever, but it is true when dsa says that he knew about the Holocaust before he entered the war. secondly, while German Christians did not do anything to stop the Holocaust (and there is no excuse for that at all), Nazis were strictly atheist. thirdly, government and religion should be separate, and they were intended to be when the Constitution was written.
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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!
"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs |
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Posts: 971 | Posted: 03:10 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
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Many of the founding fathers were religious men but where still opposed to government support of religion. It is no argument in favor of America being a christian nation to simply quote a founder saying that religion is good , or even that religion is important to government. They can believe these things and at the same time believe that government has no business supporting religion.
If the sum of your case that America is a Christian nation because some of the framers were religious people, then you have no case at all.
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Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:40 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
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hooyah
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This IS a Christian Nation no matter what the Constitution or anything else says.
I am NOT a Christian per se. But my idea of morality, just like everyone else's, have been heavily influenced by the Christian religion. Just as our forefathers were influenced by it at the writing of the Constitution.
"Thou Shalt Not Kill" Steal, cheat, lie, commit adultery, be homosexual....you know, basically, "Do Unto others..."
We may not be a Christian Nation by definition, but the truth is that Christianity has had a bigger influence on this country than any other person, place, thing, or idea in history.
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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry! |
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Posts: 110 | Posted: 7:18 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
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dsadevil
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OK, I see two different arguments here. The first is that since this country's core values match that of christianity's, we are christian. but under that logic, we are actually a jewish nation, because we had those ideas first. But you don't see any jews running around calling this a jewish nation. We are a free nation that takes the best ideas from all sources, but only swears allegiance to justice.
Then broker's argument (in addition to his stock and utterly retarded argument that democrats are the epitomy of all evil) is that all the constitution says is that we can't establish religion, not that we are devoid of it. But it isn't just liberals who interpret it this way, look at our dear friend Chief Justice Earl Warren, 3 term Republican governor of California and Republican VP candidate against Truman. Recall his interpretation of the 1st amendment? The argument that the government saying "we aren't making an official statement, but we REALLY REALLY like this particular religious belief " is not in violation of the establishment clause is absurd.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>
Respect through Excellence only |
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Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:37 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
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AlexanderTheGreat
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what is your freaking point hooyah???
everyone knows there is a lot of Christian influence on the government. that is the problem!!! some people think that needs to change. if you agree that this exists, and in other threads you have agreed the Constitution and secularism should be upheld, why do you keep repeating this as if it is as excuse?? and i am an agnostic, and i agree with almost all Christian values, such as don't kill, etc, because they make sense. you don't need to believe in any God to accept those as part of your own value system. but no to homosexuality, or yes to Hell for non-believers...yeah, I don't dig those values. because nothing outside the faith which determined them points to them being correct, or right, or anything of value.
and by the way, the Catholic Church DID know about the Holocaust before Allied soldiers marched into the camps. That is a fact. I can't look it up cause my search engines don' work, but maybe dsadevil, who is a bonifide walking encyclopedia, knows of something.
i don't think the Papacy's silence invalidates Christian values, but it sure as heck to me invalidates the legitimacy of the institution of Catholicism, just as people like Jerry Falwell invalidate the leadership of Protestantism with their mind numbing stupidity.
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Alex |
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Posts: 292 | Posted: 02:06 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
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Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 3 4 5 ]
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Religon Debates
