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unworthy servant

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Beware of the "Christian" zionist cult. . . . .

Grace Halsell, who regards the movement as a cult, asks: “What is the message of the Christian Zionist? Simply stated it is this: every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us.' (17)

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 21.

The Middle East Council of Churches (MECC), drawing together the historic as well as evangelical churches of the Holy Land, rejects, Christian Zionism 'as representing a heretical interpretation of Holy Scriptures',(19) while John Stott has described it as 'biblical anathema'. (20)

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 22.

The distinction between Israel and the church and the literalist hermeneutic upon which it is based, inexorably leads to a reductionist eschatology in which Jesus is devalued, salvation and judgment redefined, and Israel sacralized.

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 201.

He [Edward Irving (1792-1834)]insisted that missionary work especially in Southern Europe, where the Continental Society concentrated its ministry, was futile because God's judgment was about to fall on the lands of the former Roman Empire who would align themselves with the Antichrist. Some walked out of the meeting in protest while the leaders of the society accused Irving of undermining their ministry. (52)

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 42.

[Benjamin] Newton eventually came to recognize Darby's elevation of Israel above the church as heresy, and repudiated the idea that the Jews could be blessed apart from the faith in Jesus Christ. It was 'virtually to say there are two kinds of Christianity, two Gospels, two ways, and two ends of salvation'.(96)

Stephen Sizer, Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon? (Leicester: 2004) p. 53.

There is a new religious cult in America. It's not composed of so-called “crazies” so much as mainstream, middle to upper-middle class Americans. They listen-and give millions of dollars each week-to the TV evangelists who expound the fundamentals of the cult. They read Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye. They have one goal: to facilitate God's hand to waft them up to heaven free from all trouble, from where they will watch Armageddon and the destruction of Planet Earth. This doctrine pervades Assemblies of God, Pentacostal, and other charismatic churches, as well as Southern Baptist, independent Baptist and countless so-called Bible churches and mega-churches. At least one out of every 10 Americans is a devotee' of this cult. It is the fastest growing religious movement in Christianity today. -  Dale Crowley Jr., religious broadcaster, Washington D.C.

Grace Halsell, “Forcing God's Hand: Why Millions Pray For A Quick Rapture - - - And Destruction Of Planet Earth” (Beltsville: 2003) Page  5.

While Calvin and Luther understood the word “Israel” in Romans 11:25 to refer to the church of Jewish and Gentile believers, as had the Roman Catholic Church, Theodore Beza and Martin Bucer preferred to apply the word to unbelieving Jews and Judaism. The various editors of the Geneva Bible, influenced both by Calvin and Beza, increasingly favoured this interpretation. In the 1557 and 1560 editions, a short note on Romans 11 defined 'Israel' as the 'nation of the Jews'. In later editions, this was amplified to suggest a future conversion of the whole nation of the Jews, though not everyone particularly, shall be joined to the church of Christ.'(4) Through the notes accompanying this translation, which became the most widely read translation in England and Scotland prior to the Authorized Version of 1611, together with the writings of Puritans such as William Perkins and Hugh Broughton, the idea of the conversion of the Jewish people spread in Britain and the American Colonies. (5)

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 27-28.

It is clear that Jesus was often misunderstood by those who took his words too literally. John's Gospel contains several instances. For example after he had cleansed the temple and was asked by the Pharisees for a sign, Jesus replied, 'Destroy this temple and I will raise it again in three days' (John 2:19). They thought he meant their temple, but Jesus does not correct their error. In the next few chapters, Nicodemus wonders how he can enter his mother's womb again (John 3:4), the Samaritan woman believes Jesus is offering her water on tap (4:15), and the religious leaders fear Jesus is advocating cannibalism by insisting they must eat his body and drink his blood (6:51-52). It is ironic therefore, that one of the most common mistakes made by people in the Gospels, who erroneously deduced a literal interpretation when Jesus intended a spiritual one is repeated today.

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 123.

(Edited by unworthy servant 5/16/2006 at 4:10 PM).


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Posts: 196 | Posted: 4:06 PM on May 14, 2006 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

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I'm not sure I know where you're going this time, Unworthy. Do you agree with the sources you cited, or do you regard them as incorrect or misguided?

(Edited by EntwickelnCollin 5/15/2006 at 11:52 AM).


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http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
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Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:52 AM on May 15, 2006 | IP
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I think I know where he is going with this and for once I agree with him.  Alot of modern day "Christians" apply many of the prophecies that hae already come to past to the "end times" and therefore have gone about creating (in the mid 1900s, I believe) the country of Israel by force because they assume it has to exist for God's prophecies to come to pass.  Of course there are two problems with this.  One, many of the prophecies they base these on have come and gone.  Two, the term Israel in the Bible did not always refer to the "nation".  It often referred to the people (the descendants of Israel).  In either case it is not necessary for Israel to have a country of their own to fulfill any of the "end time" prophecies.  On the other hand, I'm not sure what unworthy is suggesting we do about it.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 12:24 PM on May 15, 2006 | IP
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I'll just keep my fingers crossed that Unworthy isn't both a nutty literalist and a Neo-Nazi.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 2:28 PM on May 15, 2006 | IP
unworthy servant

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Quote from EMyers at 12:24 PM on May 15, 2006 : On the other hand, I'm not sure what unworthy is suggesting we do about it.


hahahahhaaa obviously you support Israel and the cult teachings. . . .since US aid goes to fund Israel the product of cult teachings. . .and people keep electing the neocons. . . . .aka jews and evangelicals. . . .the main characters of the cult. . . .

While Jews for Jesus insists that it does not endorse the activities of any particular Jewish groups committed to rebuilding the Jewish temple, it nevertheless provides information on, and direct Internet links to, eight Jewish organizations, some of which have been implicated in attempts to seize the Temple Mount, destroy the Al Aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock, rebuild the Jewish temple and re-institute temple worship, priesthood and sacrifices. these include the Temple Institute and Temple Mount Faithful. (94)

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 234.

Jews for Jesus, founded in 1973, is the most overtly evangelistic expression of this form of Messianic dispensationalism.

Stephen Sizer, Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armegeddon? (Leicester: 2004)  page 97.

“For many deceivers HAVE entered into the world, who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This is the DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST.  Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” 2 John 1:7-9

“Young ones, it is a last hour, and as you heard that the Antichrist is coming, EVEN NOW MANY ANTICHRISTS HAVE RISEN UP, from which you know that it is a last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they left so that it might be revealed that they all are not of us.” I John 2:18-19

“By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God;  and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is THE ANTICHRIST YOU HEARD IS COMING, AND EVEN NOW IS ALREADY IN THE WORLD.”  1 John 4:2-3






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Posts: 196 | Posted: 2:44 PM on May 15, 2006 | IP
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But surely you realize that it is highly unlikely that the temple will ever be rebuilt.  Correct?

(Edited by EMyers 5/15/2006 at 4:58 PM).


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 4:57 PM on May 15, 2006 | IP
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Quote from EMyers at 4:57 PM on May 15, 2006 :
But surely you realize that it is highly unlikely that the temple will ever be rebuilt.  Correct? (Edited by EMyers 5/15/2006 at 4:58 PM).


But surely you realize the cult, with your help, is working toward building the temple, raising money to build the temple, destablizing the region. . .etc. . . .good job helping the Antichrists . . . .

[Chaim] Weizmann may have discussed the idea of Jewish statehood and transfer when he me with Roosevelt in 1939, as he told Attlee he intended to do.  The Zionists also apparently later sought American financial aid for the implementation of their plan to transfer Palestinian to Arab  countries. (15) In a departure from the discretion that generally surrounded public mention of transfer during that period, Weizmann wrote an article in the prestigious American quarterly Foreign Affairs in January 1942 calling on the Western powers to support the creation of a Jewish “commonwealth” in Palestine – a foreshadowing o the formulation used in the Biltmore program in May of that year, which marked the first official  mainstream Zionist demand for a state in all of Palestine. In the same article,he also asked the West to pressure the Arabs to accept a population transfer. (16) A statehood plus transfer plan was likewise communicated to Roosevelt's personal envoy General Patrick Hurley, during the latter's visit to Palestine in 1943. Upon his return Hurley reported that the Yishuv leadership was determined to establish a Jewish state that would include the whole of Palestine and Transjordan, and that it was intent on forcing the “eventual transfer of the Arab population to Iraq.” (17)

Expulsion of the Palestinians: The Concept of “Transfer” in Zionist Political Thought, 1882-1948. Nur Masalha. (Washington, D.C.: 1992) Page 129-130.

Aaronsohn's friend William K. Bullit, a member of the U.S. Mission to the Paris Peace Conference, later recalled: 'Many times during the Peace Conference in Paris I joined him [i.e., Aaronsohn] and Dr. Weizman at a time while both were considering and assessing policies and plans. Aaronsohn's proposal was the following: While Palestine must be made a Jewish state, the vast valley of Iraq, which is irrigated by the Euphrates and Tigirs, should be restored, through the use of planned irrigation, to be a paradise of the world ... and furthermore the Arabs of Palestine should be offered lands there ... to which as many Arabs as possible should be persuaded to emigrate.'(26)

Expulsion of the Palestinians: The Concept of “Transfer” in Zionist Political Thought, 1882-1948. Nur Masalha. (Washington, D.C.: 1992) Page 13.

It should not be imagined that the concept of transfer was held by only maximalists or extremists within the Zionist movement. On the contrary, it was embraced by almost all shades of opinion, from the Revisionist right to the Labor left. Virtually every member of the Zionist pantheon of founding fathers and important leaders supported it and advocated it in one form or another, from Chaim Weizmann and Vladimir Jabotinsky to David Ben-Gurion and Menahem Ussishkin. Supporters of transfer included such moderates as the “Arab appeaser” Moshe Shertok and the socialist Arthur Ruppin, founder of Brit Shalom, a movement advocating equal rights for Arabs and Jews. More importantly, transfer proposal were put forward by the Jewish Agency itself, in effect the government of Yishuv.

Expulsion of the Palestinians: The Concept of “Transfer” in Zionist Political Thought, 1882-1948. Nur Masalha. (Washington, D.C.: 1992) Page 2.






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WE MUST OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN - ACTS 5:29
 


Posts: 196 | Posted: 1:33 PM on May 16, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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How am I helping them?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 4:35 PM on May 16, 2006 | IP
unworthy servant

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Quote from EMyers at 4:35 PM on May 16, 2006 :
How am I helping them?


I already told how. . . .learn how to read. . . or at least retain some of what you read. . .





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WE MUST OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN - ACTS 5:29
 


Posts: 196 | Posted: 8:02 PM on May 16, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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No, you haven't.  You have not given any specific instances of my involvment with any of it.  You just keep making vague comments about how this is happening with my help.  How, specifically, am I (myself) helping to rebuild the temple in Israel?  Enlighten me.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 11:16 PM on May 16, 2006 | IP
unworthy servant

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Ditto previous post. . . .


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WE MUST OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN - ACTS 5:29
 


Posts: 196 | Posted: 1:48 PM on May 17, 2006 | IP
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Edward, Unworthy's never been interested in helping other people or opening his mind. His only intent is to insult, anger, and offend, so there's not much to gain from trying to get through to him.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 3:33 PM on May 17, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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I've given up on trying to get through to him, I'm just trying to get him to answer a question.

Sample conversation.

unworthy: its your fault
me: what's my fault?
unworthy: It is.
me:  What is it?
unworthy: I already told you.
me: no you didn't, what it are you talking about?
unworthy: ditto
me: oh, ok, that clears it up.
:P


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 4:39 PM on May 17, 2006 | IP
unworthy servant

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Yawn. . . .

3. Many of us assumed that Christian Zionism exists in fundamentalist and Evangelical churches only. [Upon closer observation, we discovered that in reality Christian Zionism has permeated Christians within mainline churches as well among Catholics and the Orthodox in various level and forms. It is an unconscious and superficial response to any Bible reading by people who have not the benefit of theological education or have not studied the Bible carefully and so accept things uncritically simply because they are written in the Bible. This means that our problem is not only with extremist evangelicals; it is with good hearted but ignorant Christians who need to be informed and educated.

Ateek, Naim, et al editors. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics and the Israel-Palestinian Conflict” (London:2005) Page 16.




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WE MUST OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN - ACTS 5:29
 


Posts: 196 | Posted: 11:01 AM on May 24, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Well, that doesn't answer my question.  You said that I (me, myself) was helping this cult of which you speak.  I've yet to see one example from you of how I am helping.  Especially since I agreed with your assesment on this point in the first place.  :P


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 12:35 PM on May 24, 2006 | IP
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3. Many of us assumed that Christian Zionism exists in fundamentalist and Evangelical churches only. [Upon closer observation, we discovered that in reality Christian Zionism has permeated Christians within mainline churches as well among Catholics and the Orthodox in various level and forms. It is an unconscious and superficial response to any Bible reading by people who have not the benefit of theological education or have not studied the Bible carefully and so accept things uncritically simply because they are written in the Bible. This means that our problem is not only with extremist evangelicals; it is with good hearted but ignorant Christians who need to be informed and educated.


That's an odd statement of Unworthy to cite, because it's attacking people who are just like him.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:01 AM on May 25, 2006 | IP
unworthy servant

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[b]Quote from EntwickelnCollin at 11:01 AM on May 25, 2006 :That's an odd statement of Unworthy to cite, because it's attacking people who are just like him.


hardly odd since attacking fools is a Christian's duty. . . .

1 Peter 2: 15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

In the “clash of  civilizations” paradigm that defines the neo-con approach, the United States has embarked on a pre-emptive crusade to generate a “global democratic revolution” - regime change to usher in governments more reflective of US values and thus more in tune with American interests – all under American (corporate) tutelage: American Empire in a truly New American Century. Israel, then, fits neatly into the equation in three ways. First, it represents just that kind of American underling the U.S. Holds up as a model (and how Israel benefits from American largess should help persuade other regimes); second, it possesses the military capacity and political readiness to further American interests; and third, it is located in the Middle East, the primary “theater”  of the Crusade, where it is engaged with America's declared arch-enemy, “radical Islam.” A strong Israel, then, represents a strong America.

Ateek, Naim, et al editors. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics and the Israel-Palestinian Conflict” (London:2005) Page 88.

It is a case of strange bedfellows of great use to each other: Elon [Benny Elon] and other xenophobic rabbis who hold Christianity in contempt embracing dispensationalists who look forward to the End of Days and the end of the Jews. Yet each has its own interest in using Israel asa vehicle for its political program – and of course  the Jewish neo-cons lend a legitmacy to the realtionship. All use the others.

Ateek, Naim, et al editors. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics and the Israel-Palestinian Conflict” (London:2005) Page 94-95.

3. Many of us assumed that Christian Zionism exists in fundamentalist and Evangelical churches only. Upon closer observation, we discovered that in reality Christian Zionism has permeated Christians within mainline churches as well among Catholics and the Orthodox in various level and forms. It is an unconscious and superficial response to any Bible reading by people who have not the benefit of theological education or have not studied the Bible carefully and so accept things uncritically simply because they are written in the Bible. This means that our problem is not only with extremist evangelicals; it is with good hearted but ignorant Christians who need to be informed and educated.

Ateek, Naim, et al editors. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics and the Israel-Palestinian Conflict” (London:2005) Page 16.

A second key used by Christian Zionists is that Biblical interpretation and Israel are closely interrelated. The idea is that if people read the Bible without giving Israel its right position, they will lost and talk nonsense. And, of course, this has been increasingly accentuated after the establishment of the State of Israel. The finger of God is viewed as directly related to the special privileges of Israel. At the same time, Israel is the center of destiny for all humanity.

Ateek, Naim, et al editors. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics and the Israel-Palestinian Conflict” (London:2005) Page 76.

Who are we talking about? Who are the Christian Zionist and what is Christian Zionism? Simply  put, this is a term used to identify any Christian who, due to a particular understanding and interpretation of the Bible, supports the ingatheriing  of all Jews to Israel and their claim to the whole land of Palestine and thereby denies rthe Zionist ideology, turns it into a theology and works diligently for its implementation.

Ateek, Naim, et al ed. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics, and the Israel-Palestine Conflict.” (Melisende: 2005) Page 13.

4. Before the 1967 war, secular Zionism was the dominant and influential expression of jewish political Zionism in Israel. After the war a gradual shift took place from secular to religious political Zionism.

Ateek, Naim, et al ed. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics, and the Israel-Palestine Conflict.” (Melisende: 2005) Page 16.

Whether we agree or disagree with it, the goal of Jewish Zionism has been to bring Jews from their diaspora into Israel so that they might find a safe haven and live in security and peace. Yet frankly speaking the goal of Christian Zionism, according to their scenario of the End, is to bring Jewish people to Israel to be annihilated or converted to the Christian Faith. They believe that this would fulfill God's purpose in history and usher in the Second Coming of Christ. The relationship between Jewish and Christian Zionists, therefore, reflects a tragic hypocrisy. Each is using the other for its own purposes. Perceived in this light, Christian Zionism is the worst anti-semitism one can imagine.

Ateek, Naim, et al ed. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics, and the Israel-Palestine Conflict.” (Melisende: 2005) Page 17.

Neo-conservatism emerged not of traditional anti-New Deal Republican conservatism, which was largely WASP and Middle Western in its roots, but out of Roosevelt's New Deal itself, which resonated with Eastern Euorprean Jewish immigrants, many whom were working class and attracted to socialism and communism. From there they and their children gravitated to the New Left and then to liberalism (Irving Kristol has described a neo-con as “a liberal mugged by reality.”) The Jewish magazine Commentary, a publication of Jewish liberals who were indeed mugged by the Sixties, became  the fountain and mouthpiece of neo-conservatism as it emerged and entered into power politics during the Reagan Administration (When Jeanne Kirkpatrick became the leading non-Jewish luminary).

Ateek, Naim, et al ed. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics, and the Israel-Palestine Conflict.” (Melisende: 2005) Page 87.

Their [neo-conservatives] worldview and agenda is summed up in what is called the 'Jerusalem Declaration'. It covers a range of issues of concern to the global right. But it also brings Israel into the center of the global right-wing agenda, suffusing it with Israeli claims and terms. Thus, Israel and its exclusive 'right' to the entire Land of Israel is inserted into the very center of the neo-con agenda.

Ateek, Naim, et al ed. “Challenging Christian Zionism: Theology, Politics, and the Israel-Palestine Conflict.” (Melisende: 2005) Page 90.





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WE MUST OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN - ACTS 5:29
 


Posts: 196 | Posted: 4:48 PM on May 29, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Many of us assumed that Christian Zionism exists in fundamentalist and Evangelical churches only. [Upon closer observation, we discovered that in reality Christian Zionism has permeated Christians within mainline churches as well among Catholics and the Orthodox in various level and forms.

Who is "us"?  What observation are you making?  Where is the data for this "observation"?  I know for a fact that I have never attended any Christian congregation that has any belief that Israel has to inhabit the land.  In accordance with prophecies the land had already been given to Israel in fulfillment of the covenant millenia ago.  They no longer walk in the way (not even by their own standards) of God and it was taken from them around A.D. 70.  What congregations have you been to that have spouted any of the nonsense that you claim you have observed (after all, you used the terms "us" and "we", so you must have been part of this assumption/observation group of which you speak).  Oh, that's right, you're just vomiting up a book you read somewhere.  I challenge you to go to a local Christian congregation in your area and ask them if they believe that Israel has a God-given right to the land they currently occupy.  You won't find any.  American's don't have a God-given right to the land we occupy.  We took it from those that were here before us, and if the world lasts long enough, another country will probably call this land home some day too.  I agree with you that Christian Zionism is bogus.  I disagree with you (or I should say with your authors) that this is a commonly held Christian belief (I make no claims regarding Catholic or other denominational beliefs).


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 6:15 PM on May 29, 2006 | IP
    
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