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Seeking information about the Cross Jesus died on.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:18 PM on August 31, 2002 | IP
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[color=lime]THE CROSS THat Christ died on ,is in history..and if the roman were thought to them self.. it was used again and again untill it was fire wood..
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:11 PM on September 21, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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i've been wanting to say this for a looong time....did u no,(i researched this) that the cross jesus died on is enough to build an arc????
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 9:51 PM on September 21, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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it was brown.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:50 PM on September 24, 2002 | IP
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It was wood.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:27 AM on September 27, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Well...its obevious that Xenjael has no consept what-so-ever of how big the arc was.  Tell the Xenjael, where did you get this information?  sounds like you researched a lot...but where would one look since it is not in the Bible?...


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 11:28 PM on October 8, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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The cross was not actually shaped like a cross, it was shaped like a T.  Oh, and Jesus wasn't a pale-skinned blonde guy with blue eyes.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 4:24 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Oh yeah, renaseance art, lol, those crack me up.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 9:31 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Jesus had brown hair and brown eyes.  His cross was actually a rigid 'I', that messed up.  Lol.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 8:23 PM on October 16, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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I take it you are just spamming again Exxoss?


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 7:37 PM on October 17, 2002 | IP
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mmph, hey sakato, i researched it on all the temples that claimed they had parts of the cross jesus died on, did u also know that the wreath jesus wore u no the thorn one, a king bought it for today's equivalent of 5 billion dollars....700 years after it had disintegrated!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:19 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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I don't have any facts to back it up, but legend has it that the cross was made from a Dogwood tree.  I don't remember exactly but it seems that Jesus or God supposedly 'cursed' all the dogwoods, making them 'unusual' in some way...i wish i could remember.

The only other interesting fact I've heard is that the nails were actually driven below his hands, right through all the tendons and ligaments of his wrists.  This almost paralysed his arms, so he was unable to lift himself up to be able to breathe.
Makes sense....try hanging from something by your arms, without lifting yourself up...it's actually hard to breathe.

Anyway, that's all I know..


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 12:24 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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The comment about enough wood to build an arc from the crross comes from all the pieces that are supposed to be a piece of the cross that every catholic altar has in it as one of the relics they are supposed to have. Basically saying that the catholic church has tons of pieces of wood that it says was a piece of the cross. Yes Hooyah you are correct the spikes where driven threw his wrist not his hands and for that exact reason you said and also bc if you drove a spike through the hand the weight of the body would pull it through bc there is not enough flesh in the hand to hold your body weight.(this disproves catholisms depictions of stigmata doesnt it). It was the dog wood tree and the curse that was put on it was that dogwoods will never grow as large as they used to....dogwoods used to get as big as an oak tree but now they dont grow any where near that big. Also he was not hung on a cross but rather a straight piece of wood bc there is not many trees in that area and they used a straigh piece of wood in order to save lumber and so that they can save on spikes by only using one to put through both hands at the same time.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:53 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
meditate

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this is all speculation but i remember hearing somewhere that the cross actually had a platform on it so the feet could support the body. The nails were driven into his feet for obvious reasons and that the nail could have been driven through the hands because his hands didn't have to attempt to hold up the entire weight as we first thought. In my opinion, stigmata hasn't been disproven.


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Meditate
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 02:50 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Yes the platform was saved for the"worse" of criminals, it as placed just high enough to where you could barely stand on it, thus prolonging the crucifiction and the pain.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:11 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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It's probable that it wasn't even a T shape but just a pike. Some sects of Christianity accept this but the bug ones don't as the cross is a corporate symbol. t = $
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 1:52 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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true beavischrist...i already said that though and people dont like it when you tell them a fact on history that goes against there common (although false) belief on religion. I can easily see why you turned atheist beavis honestly i can espcially with people like these to answer your questions on religion.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 2:33 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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Thanks, but it was more of an evolution than a turn towards atheism.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 3:27 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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How could it be a pike?  The whole purpose of crucifiction was slow suffocation, without the arms outstretched, they wouldn't suffocate.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 5:11 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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well, orginally the first crusifications were not towards cristians, or even jesus(he was a jewish lad) but towards an uprising by slaves nearly 200 years before.
what i find significantly ironic is that jesus is the progency of his distant relatie david, who we all know was cursed by yehwah for having killed bathshebas husband to get bathsheba into a maritable shape, furthurmore his curse was supposed to affect the entire family.period, so jesus was cursed. and even more, is that when jesus was born, the 3 sages that visited him were over 600 miles away, no physical they could have visited him in just hours after he was born, all these beliefs of course could be used to prove there is no jesus,, u decide on the facts.
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:51 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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you obviously do not know the Biblical account of the birth of Jesus very well. the Bible says that the magi (wise men) visited Christ not right after he was born, but when He was about two years old. hollywood movies or cartoons (such as the Little Drummer Boy) have shown the wise men with Jesus right after He was born, but this is not Biblical


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 8:24 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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ah well, just another case when i have not done my research well. thank you for the clarification.
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:10 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Hmm...I'll retract the pike statement as it seems the Jehovah's Wintnesses are big proponents of that theory and they are not my favorite cul..sect of christianity. It seems that it is a debated subject but I don't think I want to side with those girlscouts.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 01:36 AM on December 13, 2002 | IP
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it wasnt a pike it was a straight up and down post.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 04:26 AM on December 13, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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how would you know? were you there? you say it like it is a fact that we should all blindly accept.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:43 AM on December 13, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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It couldn't a post, a pike, or anything that didn't allow for the arms to be outstreched.  The whole purpose behind crucifiction as a form of execution was suffocation.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:59 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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yes the arms where streched up wards and nailed threw the wrist using one spike to go through both hands. When the spike is nailed through the wrist it paralyzes the arms and makes them useless.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 2:51 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
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it is also a form of clever torture.
- i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:29 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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once again billy, how do you know this? are you just making up information again? what makes you so determined that it was not an actual cross?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 5:17 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
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The vast majority of criminals were not nailed to the cross at all, they were tied.  In fact, Jesus in the only recorded example of a person being nailed to a crucifix.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 7:43 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Where'd you get that fact?
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 8:22 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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A lecture from a religion major.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:37 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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you have to remember beavis that the Gospels have an incredible amount of documentation. there are many different accounts of the life of Christ and they all say that he was nailed to the cross. whether you believe in the Bible or not, the documentation for the Gospels is very strong


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:50 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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There are about references to christ outside the bible, all of them hearsay. I wouldn't call that strong, but whatever. My issue was more with the statement that we have no record of anyone else ever being crucified.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 01:39 AM on December 14, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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there is more documentation that Jesus existed than for many other historical figures that we often take for granted


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 01:50 AM on December 14, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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I would be open to discussion about any of them. I doubt you'd truly be open to discussion about Jesus.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 02:00 AM on December 14, 2002 | IP
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ok then falling upwards, but what about the two other criminals that were nailed to the posts as well, the slaves that revolted were also nailed to the posts
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:49 PM on December 14, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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about the post up alittle from here referring to people being tied...yes people where tied to the post istead of nailed depending on the number of people needing to be crucified. When a large army was defeated and they had many prisoners then the prisoners would all be tied instead of nailed. The reason being is that the spikes had to be made of Iron, bronze and copper would not work bc they are softer metals and would bend and would split the wood bc the tips would be blunted and only be able to be used once if at all. Iron was a stronger metal but it was a more expensive and harder to make metal bc at the time it was the top notch in technology equivilent to our new pentium 4 computer chips. The iron spikes could be used repeatedly but not many where made for that reason. When they had many prisoners to crucify then they would just tie them instead of nail them due to lack of spikes.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 4:20 PM on December 14, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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xen, when did i say that other people were not nailed to the cross?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:49 AM on December 15, 2002 | IP
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oh, sorry i meant madbilly
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:51 AM on December 15, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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no i never said people werent nailed to the cross...i said they where but when they got large groups some where tied.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 7:32 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
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maybe....
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:33 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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are you familiar with roman history...when Scipio defeated hannibal they tied the enemy that surrendered to post, but they drove spikes through the leaders as in the crucifiction manner.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 8:35 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
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scipio defeated hannibal in 202 BC, more than 200 years before Christ. rome was alot different back then (for example, it was a republic, not an empire). so that was a different time period. but madbilly, what are you trying to prove when you say that large armies were tied and leaders were nailed?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:03 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Without doing any research, can you tell me what your you think Jesus was born?
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 11:24 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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well all im trying to do is validate a point that someone else brought up that some people where tied instead of spiked...yeah there was some time between scipio and jesus but i was just referring to this as a validating point to the remark about people being tied....bc yes some people where tied...they spiked the leaders bc it was more painful than tying and since iron spikes where limited they reserved those for the important. Jesus wasnt crucifiedalong with an entire army so they had ample spikes to give him.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:24 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
    
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