PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Religon Debates
     I'm Confused
       Bigots called me a bigot

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
Ethmi

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Back on Speakout.com, (a horrible website), I posted against Gay Rights, and as a reward, people called me a bigot.  Then they go over to the religion forum and say things like "Religion is the source of all negative human emotions" and "the cause of all fighting amongst men".  They are bigots who hate Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hinduists, etc.  Why would they call me a bigot when they themselves are bigots?


-------
I like Swedish women.
 


Posts: 68 | Posted: 8:25 PM on March 8, 2008 | IP
brutus2001x

|      |       Report Post



Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Religion is a reflection of man.  And if men are bigots, religion is the same.

I know you are going to scream when you read this, so please scream now...  done yet?

Okay...  Most religions share a common story, albeit with different actors, of creation, a flood, devistation, and renconilliation.  They also share another common thread, rules.  We often confuse these rules, which are ad hoc, with morals.  

Let us first define a moral.  Morals are a form of mores.  Mores are the rules of a society.  Mores come in three forms: Norms, Laws and Morals.  Norms dictate behavior in most social settings and in most interactions.  Laws define societal needs for certain rules, for exmaple, don't kill, don't speed and don't run around naked (most of us aren't that good looking).  Morals are individual rules to which we hold ourselves accountable.  

To better serve this point, I shall use Leviticus, a trusty guide, to help.  "Thall shall not lie with man as with woman for it is abonimation."  Clearly it doesn't like homosexuality.  Fair enough.  However it goes on to say, "If your mother should wear cloth of mixed fiber, have her stoned."  Now, we don't hold that one as a moral.  We tend to like poly-cotton and merino-alpaca and silken-wool.  "Whoever should touch the skin of a pig is unclean."  Now, we don't run around accusing the football team of being dirty sinners, do we?

The bible has rules, which we can interpret as norms and morals, and to the same extent, nothing at all, however, in this country, not laws.   There may be some coinicidence with the bible.  Murdering and stealing and lying under oath are illegal.  That being said, we do not have to keep the sabbath holy, we do not have to honor thy god, or honor thy father.  We can covet our neighboor's and we all covet the jones's car or tv or whatever.  

Now that I am done with my little tangent on religious rules, let me get back to the reflection issue.   The bible, the "old testament" part with the hell fire and the brimstone and the killing and the sulfur, was a reflection of hebrew's common beliefs.  It was bad to eat pork, it was diseased.  Kosher foods were safer because they were clean.  Shellfish spoils easily and can make you horribly ill.  Dairy spoils easily, and can kill you if spoiled.  You were supposed to listen to the king, because, well, he was the king.  And it taught them to hate egyptians and phillistines and palestinians and syrians and the rest.  Because they were a threat.  We have maintained this religion far too long.  We don't keep kosher, but we kept the hate part.   All religions (buddhists, remember buddhism ain't a religion, per se), teach hate and suppremacy.  

If religion is a reflection of man, then if man is a bigot, so is the religion he creates.  If a man claims to be of a religion, and that religion is bigotted, then he is a bigot.  

Sorry.
 


Posts: 15 | Posted: 10:01 PM on March 17, 2008 | IP
Ethmi

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from brutus2001x at 10:01 PM on March 17, 2008 :
Religion is a reflection of man.  And if men are bigots, religion is the same.


I don't hate you just because you're not religious, if that's what you're implying.


I know you are going to scream when you read this, so please scream now...  done yet?


No.  I will stay calm.



Okay...  Most religions share a common story, albeit with different actors, of creation, a flood, devistation, and renconilliation.  They also share another common thread, rules.  We often confuse these rules, which are ad hoc, with morals.  


Oh?  So I guess it's ok to murder, steal, and lie, because those are just old religious rules, huh?


Let us first define a moral.  Morals are a form of mores.  Mores are the rules of a society.  Mores come in three forms: Norms, Laws and Morals.  Norms dictate behavior in most social settings and in most interactions.  Laws define societal needs for certain rules, for exmaple, don't kill, don't speed and don't run around naked (most of us aren't that good looking).  Morals are individual rules to which we hold ourselves accountable.
 


To better serve this point, I shall use Leviticus, a trusty guide, to help.  "Thall shall not lie with man as with woman for it is abonimation."  Clearly it doesn't like homosexuality.  Fair enough.  However it goes on to say, "If your mother should wear cloth of mixed fiber, have her stoned."  Now, we don't hold that one as a moral.  We tend to like poly-cotton and merino-alpaca and silken-wool.



Not everything in the Bible is literal.


 "Whoever should touch the skin of a pig is unclean."  Now, we don't run around accusing the football team of being dirty sinners, do we?


Footballs today are generally made of leather, not pigskin.  And it says they are to be clean again after seven days.


The bible has rules, which we can interpret as norms and morals, and to the same extent, nothing at all, however, in this country, not laws.   There may be some coinicidence with the bible.  Murdering and stealing and lying under oath are illegal.  That being said, we do not have to keep the sabbath holy, we do not have to honor thy god,


Your sin is a sin of ignorance, and God will forgive it.

or honor thy father.


What?  Your father brought you into this world, and you treat him like a bell boy?  Shame on you.


We can covet our neighboor's and we all covet the jones's car or tv or whatever.  


I suppose we can, but it's a waste of time worrying about them being better than you, and it's a waste of time trying to keep up with them.


Now that I am done with my little tangent on religious rules, let me get back to the reflection issue.   The bible, the "old testament" part with the hell fire and the brimstone and the killing and the sulfur, was a reflection of hebrew's common beliefs.


If you're implying that Jews are violent, well, some of them are.  Did that give Hitler justification in killing 13,000,000 of them?


It was bad to eat pork, it was diseased.  Kosher foods were safer because they were clean.  Shellfish spoils easily and can make you horribly ill.  Dairy spoils easily, and can kill you if spoiled.  You were supposed to listen to the king, because, well, he was the king.  And it taught them to hate egyptians and phillistines and palestinians and syrians and the rest.


Then why is it important for us to love our neighbor as ourself?


Because they were a threat.  We have maintained this religion far too long.  We don't keep kosher, but we kept the hate part.   All religions (buddhists, remember buddhism ain't a religion, per se), teach hate and suppremacy.


Then I guess Martin Luther King Jr. was an evil bigot, huh?


If religion is a reflection of man, then if man is a bigot, so is the religion he creates.  If a man claims to be of a religion, and that religion is bigotted, then he is a bigot.


As I said, I believe, I don't hate you.  




(Edited by Ethmi 3/23/2008 at 07:04 AM).


-------
I like Swedish women.
 


Posts: 68 | Posted: 04:56 AM on March 23, 2008 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.