PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Religon Debates
     Science is Evil

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Humanity was punished for wanting knowledge. Science seeks to further the realm of human knowledge and understanding. Therefore, Jews and Christians must see science as evil.
The Bible is also (some say) a wealth of knowledge. What a pickle, reading the bible tells you that knowledge is bad for humans, but by reading the bible you (may) be increasing your knowledge. Damn that tricky Yahweh.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 4:16 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

|       |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Show me in the Bible where is says knowledge is bad.


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 4:50 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Adam ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge. That was why humanity was cast out of eden. If you want to argue that it is simply because they didn't follow gods command, fine, but it is obvious that god chose the tree of knowledge as the thing not to eat of for a reason.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 5:07 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Eve ate the apple.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 7:25 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

And Jews love to argue with God. We aren't textual literalist, or at least most of the time we aren't (there were always be fundalmentalists)


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:44 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i have a queston dsadevil: are you a practicing Jew (by that I mean do you believe in Yahweh and/or go to synagogue)?


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:43 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I generally find Jews less pushy with their religion but as far as actual beliefs...damn, the old testament is messed up.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 10:21 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

BeavisChrist....
I looked at your site. Pretty funny. I am not sure if it demonstrates you are a good debater, or just shows there are a lot of dumb people out there. I haven't read enough of your posts here to know if you are good. Then again, we will probably agree on most things. Isn't the story of the Tower of Babel also an example of religion being against the pursuit of knowledge? I agree with you about all that. however, here is a point of contention: you say you are an atheist and yet you slam religious people for lack of proof. Atheism is just as bad. How can you be certain there is no God (transcendental entity of some kind)???? As an agnostic, I oppose (vehemently, as you might see in my posts here) the belief in God, but I do not in any way oppose the possibility that a God exists. I think there is a major difference. Ignore all this, I guess, if you are just using atheist and agnostic interchangeably, but you shouldn't, because they are VERY different.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:27 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I understand your points but I see the difference between atheists and agnostics as mere splitting hairs. An agnostic does not actively believe in a god, nor does the atheist. Or another line of argument- Are you agnostic about Godzilla? You cannot prove he doesn't exist (maybe hes submerged in the ocean by Japan right now) but you do not believe in him despite this. Agnostics pick only the issue of god to be agnostics about, which I see as silly. Until I see or read evidence I personally find compelling, I do not believe in godzilla nor do I believe in god.

Putting arguments aside, I am willing to say that I use the term atheist for myself just to communicate to others that I am not a member of any major religion. Sure I can see that maybe the universe, nature, or some other force is some sort of god or creator. When it comes down to it, though, I do not actively believe in any god and therefore I am without theism. I am an atheist.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:51 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

actually, i guess i am a rare form of true agnosticism. I am agnostic about everything. I am not a nihilistic. I do not believe there is nothing to believe in, I just don't believe in anything. so yes, i am agnostic about Godzilla. And I do think you are using the phrases "do not believe in" and "disbelieve" too equivalently. You said: "When it comes down to it, though, I do not actively believe in any god and therefore I am without theism. I am an atheist." In my opinion, without theism means agnostic (not accepting any theism as a belief), while atheism is actively arguing there is no God. I used to drop LSD a lot. From that experience, I believe there is nothing I can accept as fact beyond the existence of my own consciousness (probably because I am not smart enough to debunk Descartes). I saw things on drugs, and my mind convinced me of their validity (for 12 hours anyway). I cannot accept anything as truth beyond my own sphere of thought. I don't believe you exist, nor that my mind has a physical incarnation. Of course, my mind makes certain allowances to survive (when i drive my car i assume as you do that certain physical laws wil not fail me as I round the corner, but I can't say I'd be intellectually surprised when they do...). I remember my first philosophy class (in a long line of annoyances), when the teacher asked how we could be certain that when we closed our eyes, the desk in front of us didn't disappear and then reappear just as we reopened them. I was flaberghasted as he continued without giving a good answer. the answer is simple: we can't. belief of any kind is pretty much just like religion. we accept out the reality perceived within the limits of human perception because we have to psychologically, not because we should. religion is even worse, though, because it attempts to reject even the limits of our physical perception. it rejects empiricism. us humans try to do the best we can, but religion is too big of a leap for the human mind. basically,. beavischrist, I think you should be an agnostic. it is a shitty, lonely road. I read albert camus' the myth of sisyphus, and his stupid. desperate reasoning for NOT killing oneself makes me want to kill myself. I read Voltaire's CANDIDE, and I think, "cultiver son propre jardin (tend one's own garden)"???? what is he kidding, there is no way to injetc one's own meaning into the absurdity of the world. or depressed, desperate Kant, with his own ridiculous categorical imperative, trying to make the best of non-belief. the truth is, there is no Truth to be found.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 1:09 PM on November 23, 2002 | IP
Sakata

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Uh, getting back to the original subject, this argument is ridiculous.  You have only to open the Bible to see the overwhelming references to knowledge and wisdom.  And the fruit from the tree of knowledge?  Heh, you cut that a little short “The tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” (Genesis 2:9)  a completely different thing, God isn’t trying to keep us stupid.


2 Peter 1:5
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge

Romans 11:33
Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!

2 Corinthians 8:7
But just as you excel in everything–in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in your love for us –see that you also excel in this grace of giving.

Philippians 1:9
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight,

Colossians 1:9
For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding.

Colossians 2:3
in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

1 Timothy 2:4
who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.



-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 12:07 PM on November 28, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i don't think quotes with the word "knowledge"in them in any way are an argument for religion being not against the pursuit of knowledge. having said that, i realize me making an example of the tower of babel is equally useless. ok, so, here is a better example that is real, and not in a book. so many of the christian posts on this site say evolution is wrong because either 1. it has not been perfectly shown to explain everything and/or 2. it goes against (or may go against) things said in the Bible. you don't think that is a fundamental attack on the goals and processes of science????


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:41 AM on November 29, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

actually, thistown and coolhanddave are both very good Christians and both believe in evolution


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:30 PM on December 1, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

|       |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Weeell...I don't necessarily believe in evolution.  I haven't particularly put to much thought into the subject.  I think it very well MAY have happened, but I don't really care enough about it to have an educated opinion.


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 6:33 PM on December 1, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

|       |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

agreed.  evolution probably did occur, but it doesn't disprove God, God doesn't disprove evolution, yadda, yadda, etc, etc.  don't particularly either.


-------
Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 7:07 PM on December 1, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Does the bible not give the reader any knowledge of good and evil? Does your argument stand up or did you just see that I was missing a few words so you jumped at the chance to open your bible?

Please feild this one, too- If Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil, why would they listen to god? They were given an order but not taught the rules of the game, so the fact that they were punished because they messed up is blatantly stupid to all nonchristians.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 8:49 PM on December 1, 2002 | IP
Maynard

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i believe if eve didnt eat that apple none of us would be here in this world, we would be lliving in a garden of our own.  but also, satan would have never stopped to try to get her to eat the apple.  God had a plan, which included the graden of eden, eve screwed up, and god had to change his plans, and thats why we are here now.  the reason satan chose eve is just because woman are usually more trusting than men.



-------
I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 1:11 PM on December 2, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

|       |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Is it "evil" to disobey?  No.  There is a bog difference between "good and evil" and "right and wrong"
.


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 1:49 PM on December 2, 2002 | IP
Maynard

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from beavischrist at 8:49 PM on December 1, 2002 :
Does the bible not give the reader any knowledge of good and evil?


the bible is a history book, tells what happened, not what is currently happening, adam and eve were not reading the bible.

If Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil, why would they listen to god?



because god is their father, what reasons would they not listen to him?


-------
I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 1:54 PM on December 2, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

This is the first time I've seen a christian take a grey stance (as opposed to a black and white). If wrong is not evil, what is it? It can't be good and I didn't know there was the concept of moral or ethical neutrality in christianity.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 11:03 AM on December 3, 2002 | IP
Sakata

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You state that Adam and Eve were not taught the difference between good and evil Bevis, and tell me exactly how you know this again?  Ah yes, I remember now, you were there when God created Adam and Eve so you know just how it went....  

What makes you think God did not create them with wisdom?

Eve was deceved by Satan, that is not where man fell, but Adam was given a choice, Do what God tells you, or do what the woman tells you, he chose the woman, so men have been listening to us ever since, lol jk... but seriously, he chose people over God, so God gave him what he wanted.


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 01:01 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

sakata, to turn your logic around on you, were u there? bevis is as likely to be correct as the u or the author of the bible.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:37 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

ur right about sakata, but some of us believe that the writers of the bible were inspired by God


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:05 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

ok, but this goes back to my old complaint about speaking in a factual matter when it is unprovable. sakata esp. falls victim to this, saying "i know for a fact tha god is the universal truth."


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 01:24 AM on December 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i dont see how science is inherently evil...i dont get it.


-------
my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:43 AM on December 5, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

agreed dsa, sakata doesnt know any more than the rest of us


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:36 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Someone on another forum posted this short essay:

Science isn't trying to explain naturalism or discover "The Truth", its just a tool for developing the most accurate explanatory models currently available for approximating our observations. It has been spectacularly successful at that, and it will continue to be so long as one doesn't expect to much from it, like finding ultimate truth. Thus the purpose of science is not to validate naturalism or theism or any other philosophy; its purpose is, for example, to explain why we get diseases and how to prevent or cure them. When you insist that science must try to incorporate the supernatural in order to find ultimate truth, the tool breaks down and loses its usefulness. Science can achieve breakthroughs by developing increasingly accurate models of natural phenomenon based on the evidence, but there is no method available to develop more accurate models of the supernatural. You simply put your supernatural hypothesis out there, and people can believe it or not, but they cannot falsify it. This should be obvious; whereas many scientific controversies have eventually been resolved one way or another by the development of the evidence (at least until a better model or new evidence which needs explaining comes along), no theological dispute is ever resolved until the last believer in a particular faith has died. Thus the issue shouldn't be whether evolution is "true" or not, but whether it is the most accurate model for explaining our observations of the natural world. The "truth" about whether or not God created life is a theological, not scientific question. The best current scientific model for explaining the diversity of life on earth is evolution.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:29 AM on February 12, 2004 | IP
jito

|     |       Report Post



Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i believe if eve didnt eat that apple none of us would be here in this world, we would be lliving in a garden of our own.  but also, satan would have never stopped to try to get her to eat the apple.  God had a plan, which included the graden of eden, eve screwed up, and god had to change his plans, and thats why we are here now.  the reason satan chose eve is just because woman are usually more trusting than men.[b]

First of all - there is no proof it was an apple.  It was simply "fruit".  Secondly, careful judging Eve there.  Far as I am concerned - Satan knew he would have to trick her, and that Adam would just go along.  ;)

Science is not evil.  Gracious - how silly!  God's word may be in the Bible but his creation is EVERYWHERE.  Science studies that marvelous creation and boosts my faith.

You know my favorite king of Isreal is Solomon because he asked for wisdom....


-------
- Leslie
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 4:21 PM on February 17, 2004 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.