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Should the 10 Commandments be Posted in school classrooms ?

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/10COMMANDMENTS_IN_SCHOOL.HTM
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 7:48 PM on April 30, 2002 | IP
Jigokusabre

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Why not the Code of Hammurabi?

The 10 commandments are not a moral guide, they are a religous one. While "thal shalt not steal" and "thal shalt not kill." are general enough, "Thou shalt hold no gods above me." and "Thou shalt honor the sabbath, and keep it holy." are not.

It would be interesting to see the same people who want to put the ten commandments up in school post Luke 18:25 in corporate boardrooms....


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Posts: 30 | Posted: 02:19 AM on August 19, 2002 | IP
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Luke 18:25  - Very Good!


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Pro 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 02:23 AM on August 19, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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lol hammurabi's code....the ten commandments arin school are saying 'these are the ways you should live, be you christian or not.  Believe in god or you are not following school rules!'  This is the stupidest concept ever.  It creates a detrimental enviroment via clash of religions.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:26 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I agree.  I'm a Christian, but that's ludicrous.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 4:30 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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I have a Government teacher that has the Ten Commandments up in his room, I guess since it is on his own terms and not because the school makes him, it is okay.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 5:26 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
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But if their in a classroom, thats free speech.  True.  However, it is also a kids free speech to put up the satanic verses if the ten commandments are posted in school.  They are knocking it into kids heads that whatever think think is wrong unless they are christian.  Sure, teachers can post them for themselves, UNSEEN by anyone else.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:37 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Unseen? oh, its up on the wall for all to see.  If my science teachers have the right to put up posters that show monkeys evolving into people than certainly this couldnt be any different.  


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 7:36 PM on October 17, 2002 | IP
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Except that one is a religion and one is not.  I agree with putting up four of the ten commandments on the wall, but what good are the others to non-christians?  Sakata forcing things down someone's throat is no way to win followers.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 02:53 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Evolution is a faith directly opposing my beliefs, why should I have to put up with their beliefs being shoved down my throat?!


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 7:08 PM on October 18, 2002 | IP
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1.  Evolution is not a faith.  It is a scientific theory.  Christianity is based on faith, evolution is based on fossils and bones.

2.  You go to a school everyday that goes against your beliefs, people cheat, lie, have premarital sex, etc, why aren't you whining about that.  Why is evolution such a big deal?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 9:11 PM on October 18, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Evolution IS a faith, there is no fossil evidence for evolution, the fossil record that Darwin was depending on to prove his theory are a joke! show me one missing link! there isnt one! Atheists relly on faith where their facts fall short.  Come on thistown, even Dsa agrees on this point.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:23 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
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darwin retracted all of his theories while he was dying and also wrote it in his book that he was working on while he died,...how come no teacher will tell you that....they also belive the ship that he was on had rye bread that became moldy (ryemld=ergots...ergots=hallecinations) and they belivee this is one of the reasons that he came up with these crazy ideas....same thing happened to the salem witch trials which are unproven to have ever happened but it is proven that ergots in the bread they ate caused sever hallecinations which did lead to people being accused of witch craft ...but there is no proof that people ever went to trial or where ever prosecuted


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:35 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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yeah, I have heard that too, about the salem witch trials I mean.  I dont think Darwins theorys where compleatly ridiculous, I believe God created the universe and every creature in it, but creatures do adapt to their environment, like in africa there are black people because they live out in the sun, but in the north people are white, but that is interspeices only, it is a form of "evolution" but the whole human race randomly crawling out of the water as lizards or whatever, thats just crap.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 11:53 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
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Oh sorry I didn't agree with me, heaven forbid, I withdraw everything I've ever said without dsadevils agreement.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:46 AM on October 22, 2002 | IP
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and for the record, sakata i don't agree. i believe there is ample evidence (much more than creationism) that evolution happened.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:16 PM on October 22, 2002 | IP
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yes, I can see where you base that on, with all the missing links out there, and not just human ones, but the frog/ducks  and cat/antalopes,  with so much overwhelming evidence who could doubt?


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 7:59 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
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??? What do frogs and ducks have to do with each other? There may be some missing links in evolutionism, but it least they try to make the links in the first place. To be distinguished from Creationism, whose main argument is "trust the book. the book is your friend."


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:55 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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What it boilds down to is either you have faith in a God that is outside of time, or you have faith in a bunch of rocks and chemicals that got here somehow.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:03 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
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ok...so we have faith in something that we see happen everyday...or we have faith in something that exists only as a rumor in ONE DAMN BOOK!

Faith, n.: An attitude of desperation. An attempt to make the intolerable tolerable. When achieved, it gives its holders a satisfying feeling of superiority over those so unfortunate as to see things as they are.
--Chaz Bufe (The American Heretics Dictionary)

Faith, n.: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.
--Ambrose Bierce (The Devil's Dictionary)

Two of the funniest, wittiest, and in my opinion perceptive books ever written (the former is sequel to the latter, which was written in 1906). And if you just repeat the title's to me as if that alone was a reason to ignore the content to me, I'll will send you an electronic slap


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:25 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
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Actually the bible is made up of 66 books, a few of which I assumed you believe are true considering you say you are Jewish.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:31 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
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thistownwilleatu wrote:

"1.  Evolution is not a faith.  It is a scientific theory.  Christianity is based on faith, evolution is based on fossils and bones."

Christianity is based on faith, yes. But so is evolution. Here is what I mean:

"I believe that the smallest known living organism is the Mycoplasma hominis (someone correct me if I am wrong). This organism has about 600 different types of protiens. Protiens are made up of amino acids. The amount of amino acids in a protien are usually around 400. The amino acids themselves consist of about 10 atoms, minimum.

Stanley Miller's experiment in the 50's showed that a mix of chemicals, put toghether, could create some of the most basic amino acids. Many people thought this was proof that life could arisr in the 'primordial soup.' But if you look at the amazing complexity of life, you will realize all that experimant did was create the building blocks for the building blocks for the building blocks. You would have to have hundreds of amino acids alinged just right. This is basically impossible! "1 chance in –
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
!"

http://www.creationsafaris.com/epoi_c04.htm

Even if you had this happen, then you would have 1 protien. You would need al least 600 of these, all in the exactly right order (another mathamatic impossiblity) to even create the simpliest of organisms! Anyone looking at this without a pre-bias will obviously discard the possiblity of this happening."

This is an argument of mine I used recently in another forum. It shows that if you believe in evoltion, you are basing your belief on faith, because the chance of evolution happening is zero.

Another reason evolution is based on faith is the fact is can not be scientifically proven. You can not see, or repeat marcoevolution in a laboratory. Since you did not see it, you have faith it happened.

Yet another reason you have faith in evolution is the origin of the universe. The universe started, without any reason, at a random time, and we have no clue how. How did the law of gravity arise from nothing? How did atoms, the complex building blocks of our universe, arise from nothing? It is logically impossible (think about it).

You said evolution is based on bones and fossils. I challenge you to present me with one transitional link. I will show you why it is not a transitional link.


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 12:21 AM on October 25, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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all the materials that we have floating around space and that are in the earth had to be created, They could not have just always existed something had to create them because matter cannot be created or destroyed by any means.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:56 AM on October 25, 2002 | IP
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i believe in response to the mathamatical argument, i pointed out that in an infinite universe, some planet, somewhere, will beat those odds. Go us!

The problem with the creationist argument is that it holds that everything was created at the same time (or within one "day" of each other). So in then, why can we not find evidence of certain species before certain dates, while we can for others? talk about the lack of linkage...
But, macroevolution is just a LOT of microevolution stacked side by side. We can see that while some primative bacteria have only very basic cell structure and organelles, as you move on, each bacteria has something alittle more complex, and a little more, and a little more...etc. etc. until you get to primates. I'll skip a few steps here and give an example w/ plants. C3 plants get energy via photosynthesis, but the photosyn is limited because RuBP has an affinity to both CO2 (the basis for photosynthesis) and O2 (to plants anyway, unhelpful) gases. C4 plants are structurally next to identical to C3 plants, EXCEPT they have a "C4 Pump" of sorts with which to weed out O2 gas and only bring in CO2 gas. Besides that, they are almost identical. But both C3 and C4 plants have the problem that when it is too hot, they have to choose whether to open their pores and allow CO2 in (thus allowing photosynthesis) and preventing all their water from evaporating (which would happen if they open their pores). Either one would soon kill the plant (either via dehydration or lack of energy). CAM plants solve that problem by opening their pores at night to allow CO2 in, storing it as Mallic Acid, then closing them when day comes and it becomes to hot, reconverting the mallic acid to CO2 and then proceeding the same way as C3 and C4 plants. Thus we can see a definite link between each of these types of plants, though they are all different species of plants. Stack enough of these small changes on top of each other and you have macroevolution.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 3:00 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
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You only addressed my chemical challenge. You did not how the universe started, how atoms started, or how laws, such as gravity, came from nowhere.

"But, macroevolution is just a LOT of microevolution stacked side by side."

This has never been observed. Never. Mutations always result in a loss of genetic information for the organism, thus upward progress (evolution) could not take place.


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 3:14 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
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OK, I'll grant you that it has never been observed, because humans haven't been running controlled scientific experiments over a long enough period of time. But it is a logical inference from what we do see (microevolution)

I think Alex posted in somewhere, but why is it any less reasonable to believe that this matter just always was, rather than assume it had to come from somewhere. As for gravity, humans don't understand it yet enough to even begin postulating what they came from. Basically evolution is a theory, yes, but one that is supported by short-term evidence. I don't know if the long term evidence exists are not, but the only thing I've heard from creationists is specific attacks on specific examples, which they then say negates the theory as a whole. But even if all the longterm evidence is gone, what we have is a MOUND of shortterm evidence. The same cannot be said for creationism. All it can do is pounce upon flaws in evolution, then offer itself as an alternative, w/out doing anything to prop up its own viabilty.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:26 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
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"But even if all the longterm evidence is gone, what we have is a MOUND of shortterm evidence."

You do? Please show me this mound. Remember, Macroevolution. Not microevolution.

"But it is a logical inference from what we do see (microevolution)"

Who's logic? I your mind, logic must state that:

Mutations, which never add genetic information, but take away, have changed single celled organisms into humans, depsite the impossiblity of life arising from nothing and the impossiblity of our universe arising from nothing.

This is not logic. This is faith. Evolution is based on faith.

"The same cannot be said for creationism."

Here is a sample of the evidence...


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 10:02 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
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tragically, my firewall blocks your site as "religion" . I hate that

Microevolution IS shorterm evidence for macroevolution. That was my point (see plant example above)

But as to your saying that mutations always harm an organism, in the pulitzer prize winning book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond, an almond example is given.
Wild Almonds contain a compound that tastes very bitter and when digested, breaks down to form deadly cyanide. However, as you know, store bought almonds don't kill you. That is because certain almond trees had a GENETIC mutation which prevented the synthesizing of the compoud which breaks down to cyanide, thus removing the bitter taste and threat of death. Today, non-bitter almond trees are much more common than their bitter counterparts, as they have been obviously cultivated by humans over the ones that kill them. Thus, we see a beneficial mutation.

Before we move on, however, I'd like to say one thing. I am not a scientist. I don't have the grasp on the complex scientific issues that you have, sam. all I can say is that we see microevolution all the time, and the idea of expanding micro to macro evolution isnt inconcievable in the slightest. In biology, all of science is theories, and it is possible to therefore say all science is faith. I just prefer to base my faith off of something with alittle more scientific basis than the word of 1 volume of 66 books (happy sakata?)


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:57 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
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yeah
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:47 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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That was me in case you didnt get it.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 11:49 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
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"Wild Almonds contain a compound that tastes very bitter and when digested, breaks down to form deadly cyanide. However, as you know, store bought almonds don't kill you. That is because certain almond trees had a GENETIC mutation which prevented the synthesizing of the compoud which breaks down to cyanide, thus removing the bitter taste and threat of death. Today, non-bitter almond trees are much more common than their bitter counterparts, as they have been obviously cultivated by humans over the ones that kill them. Thus, we see a beneficial mutation."

No, we do not see a beneficial mutation. We see a harmful mutation. Let me explain.

Why do you think sweet almonds would be a benefical mutation? Because if we eat them we don't die? Ok, sweet almonds is a benifical mutation for HUMANS, not for the plant. It is harmful for the plant, by virtue of the fact that everyone knows wants to take their seeds. Before, who would eat poisonus almonds? Now, we eat them all the time. You see what I mean? A benefiacal mutation for us, a harmful mutation for them. Evolution requires benficial mutations for the organism, which havbe never been observed. If evolution were true, wouldn't you think there would be at least ONE observed beneficial mutation? I mean, the whole theory of evolution hinges on this fact.

"Before we move on, however, I'd like to say one thing. I am not a scientist. I don't have the grasp on the complex scientific issues that you have, sam."

Ok, but I am not a scientist either. I am 17 years old. But I do see that the theory of evolution is false, and am trying (in a small way) to expose it.


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 8:59 PM on October 26, 2002 | IP
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except that now these almond trees (plants?) are more present than their bitter counterparts, because they've been selected for a mutated trait. Something in their environment (in this case humans) made a genetic mutation beneficial, instead of harmful.
Here's another, moths in london. They used to be mostly brown. That blended well with trees, so birds wouldn't see and then eat them, as opposed to the grey moths, which stuck out and were devoured. As time went by, London underwent an industrial revolution, and these trees turned grey with soot. The moths response? Now the grey moths are in the majority b/c THEY blend in, and the brown ones do not. changing enviro situation turns what is previously a bad mutation (color) into a good one, changing the bug.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:22 PM on October 26, 2002 | IP
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"except that now these almond trees (plants?) are more present than their bitter counterparts, because they've been selected for a mutated trait. Something in their environment (in this case humans) made a genetic mutation beneficial, instead of harmful."

But this does not change the point. It was a harmful mutation. Acording to evolution, humans were not around a billion years ago to make these harmful mutations beneficial. You can not factor humans into the equation, because humans have not been around very long (according to evolution).

"Here's another, moths in london. They used to be mostly brown. That blended well with trees, so birds wouldn't see and then eat them, as opposed to the grey moths, which stuck out and were devoured. As time went by, London underwent an industrial revolution, and these trees turned grey with soot. The moths response? Now the grey moths are in the majority b/c THEY blend in, and the brown ones do not. changing enviro situation turns what is previously a bad mutation (color) into a good one, changing the bug."

Didn't you read my post about evolution's hoaxes and mistakes? Yes, peppered moths are a hoax, which you apperently believe, along with embryonic recapitulation.

"Peppered moths.

Peppered moths are commonly used as evidence for evolution. They supposedly show adaption because of camoflauge in tree trunks. But the problem was, it was found out that peppered moths don't even stay on tree trunks. In fact, the pictures taken for textbooks were done by taking dead moths and gluing them to trees! Unfortunetly, this 'evidence' for evolution is still used today."

My post about evolution's lies, including peppered moths.

The number of beneficial mutations is still at zero.

Here are the conditions which must be met for beneficial mutations.


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 01:15 AM on October 27, 2002 | IP
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The thing I always find unbelievable about the "creation science" side of any debate is that the only thing they ever do is attempt to point out the flaws in evolution.  They never present any scientific evidence to support their side.  The only way to prove "creation science" is to FIRST prove there is a creator; and that has never been done by anyone.  By simply exposing flaws in evolution the creationist has not advanced their cause one iota.  Whenever someone can scientifically prove the existence of a creator, then maybe their side of the debate will be taken more seriously by throughful people.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:38 AM on October 27, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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I suppose that means the "running over squirrels" question on my Bio exam was false too? (squirells adapting to not blend in with the road and thus be run over?)


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:07 PM on October 27, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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and the almond thing applies just fine, an environmental change (i.e., human selection, its still an environmental change) made a mutation beneficial. Maybe in another species it was the influx of squirrels that caused the change. It still works fine.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:08 PM on October 27, 2002 | IP
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If you notice all of the links provided by kc2gwx are to the same site, the Institute for Creation Science.  This is a well known creationsist propaganda site, funded by religious fundamentalist with a definite religious agenda.  This site SHOULD NOT be taken seriously as a scientific explanation for anything.  All they are doing is pushing their religious beliefs disguised as a science.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:38 AM on October 28, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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It's bias, well guess what? so are all the sites you are going to find "proof" for evolution on, should they not be taken either since they are just pushing around their faith?

Just because this site offers things you cannot explain, dont just disreguard it as lies.
ALL CAPS do not have as much weight as HARD FACTS around here in case you havent noticed.

(Edited by Sakata 10/28/2002 at 8:48 PM).


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 8:45 PM on October 28, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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He does raise a good point though. I hardly think an entity called the Institute for Creation Science can be called non-partisan. I wouldn't trust a group called Evolution Science Association either. Who I do trust are experts in the field of biology and other related scientists, the majority of whom are evolutionists.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:38 PM on October 29, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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the majority of whom would be mocked and discredited it they werent...


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 12:01 AM on November 2, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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i wonder why...b/c they would be letting religious fanatcism get in the way of scientific inquiry?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 11:06 PM on November 3, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Religion needs to stay away from evolution and vice versa, there is not real answer to anyones questions about this subject.  Its all about your faith, what you believe.  I myself believe in evolution but believe that god started the cycle.  Its my faith, and that is something you can't argue.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 11:18 PM on November 3, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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No, because when scientists come up with stuff disproving evolution and proving there is a creator, they dont want it in the hands of anyone but dedicated atheists.


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People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:28 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
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how is it possible to prove the exsistance of a creator?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:53 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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I ment pointing towards there being a creator, like stuff that could never have evolved without intelligent design.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 12:16 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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the lack of proof of something doesn't prove anything. You can't say "there is a creator b/c nothing but a creator could have created this" (circular logic)


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 11:15 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
kyjman

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Religious freedom means that NO PERSON, or GOVERNING BODY can tell me what I must believe in. That is FREEDOM to worship or not as I see fit. There is not one person walking the face of the earth that can say, without any doubt or question that we are offered another life after this one. If I really and truely believed that I would be in heaven when I died, I would have taken myself out years ago and spared me some of the anguish of this life.


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If we can't get over the past, we will be passed over.
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 7:53 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
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new guy...

my replies to some old posts:


"No, because when scientists come up with stuff disproving evolution and proving there is a creator, they dont want it in the hands of anyone but dedicated atheists."

New conspiracy theory?  

1.  it's very doubtable.  Why?  Because anyone who is seriously doing science has been developed should accept the possibility that anything can be wrong and all theory should be supported by evidence.  No good scientist can say that evolution happened or that there is a creator.  All they can say is that more evidence support the theory of evolution than that there is a creator, and that's what they're saying.  This means they have to accept that there is a possibility that there is a god, albeit small.  There is no faith in science (at least not in the common sense that faith is in most religions).  I came to this conclusing from the fact that the past 17 years of schooling has put extreme emphasis on this.  Except for few exceptions, academia is the greatest proponent of free information, so this is the last place you would expect to see a "conspiracy" as you described.

2.  The second point I want to make is in your misuse of the word "prove".  In math, to prove a statement means to show beyond all doubt that the statement is true under certain axiomatic constraints.  In general, to prove something means to verify by experience.  Can you "disprove" (to prove the non-existence of) evolution?  Common sense would suggest that you can never do this unless you can have a continuous view of everything happening in the universe over a long period of time, which is obviosuly proposterous.  This means that you shouldn't say "disproving evolution".  It makes you sound foolish.  Can you "prove" that there is a creator?  Sure, if he would appear and show some nice tricks.  We all know that this is ludicrist.  In some denominations of Christianity, god would never appear because doing so would ruin the "test" of faith.  So can you prove that there is a creator?  Unlikely!  Can you find scientific evidence to prove that there is a creator?  Extremly unlikely.  What happens if you say that people found evidences that prove that there is a creator?  Well, you just come off as a little ill informed as far as what different words mean ;)

how is it possible to prove the exsistance of a creator?
Exactly my point!

I ment pointing towards there being a creator, like stuff that could never have evolved without intelligent design.

Yea, I agree with dsa.. this is a little vicious for my taste ;)  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:56 AM on January 13, 2003 | IP
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[b]First of all I want to say that I'm presbytarian.But anyway,I think it's wrong to dicuss religion at school.IM me and find out why.I'm too tired to type [b]
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:42 PM on January 16, 2003 | IP
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Is this a debate on evolution or a debate on the posting of the 10 Commandments in our schools?

If it is the latter, may I respectfully suggest that teachers be allowed to make the decisions for their own classrooms on the basis of our Constitutional right to "free speach".  If free speach protects someone's right to burn a flag, print pornography or other things that are offensive to some, I would hope it applies to another's right to post what is PRIMARILY a moral code on their own classroom wall.  If the student doesn't like it, they dont' have to read it.  

As to the idea that such a thing wouldn't have happened if they had been posted at Columbine, that, in my opinion, is ludicrous.  If you wanted to say that if they had been carefully taught, then the crime wouldn't have happened, you would have a stronger ground to stand on.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:41 PM on March 2, 2003 | IP
    
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