PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Religon Debates
     10 Comm. in the Courthouse

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
Chai

|      |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Not too long ago, a judge put a big statue of the ten commandments in his courthouse. It was ruled unconstitutional by the higher courts, but he is arguing that it's his freedom of expression to leave it up. Should he take it down




 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 3:57 PM on December 1, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

the court ruling was justified. Moore (the 'bama judge) was using the commandants to convey an official religious message.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 5:36 PM on December 2, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Judge Moore also says that our legal system is founded on the bible.  

I would challange anyone who believes this to tell me where the Ten Commandments speak of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the form of government we have, free elections, separation of powers, checks and balances, separation of church and state, and virtually everything else that defines our legal system.

The fact is that the very first commandment (I am the Lord you God. You shall have no other gods before me) runs contrary to the establishment clause of the Bill of Rights and is nothing but a sectarian claim to religious supremacy.

The fact is that the principles of modern democracy were not laid out on the bible, but by political philosophers such as John Locke in the 17th century.  The fact is that our legal system is rooted in the common law of ancient Rome, not on the bible.  The fact is that societies in the Mediterranean and the Middle East had highly developed legal systems centuries before Christians walked on the face of the earth.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:30 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

How dare you be so logical about this. God gave us all of our laws and Jesus invented Democracy.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 1:44 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Hey beavis do I have this right?  The central belief of christianity is that we can sin, rape, murder, pillage, torture all we like, but if we believe in jesus we go to heaven no matter what we did.  No wonder christianity is so popular!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:42 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

nope, you dont have it right...read this verse:

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?" -James 2:14

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder." -James 2:18-19

so basically, the Bible preaches that while faith is what saves someone, it is worthless without good works.


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 3:28 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

its almost pointless arguing with you though, because no matter what Christians say, people are going to find something wrong with them. if they say that we are saved by faith, then people like you say that christianity promotes sin/wrong doings. or if they say that deeds are important as well as faith, then you'll say that we are legalistic. either way, you're gonna criticize us. why dont you be more tolerant?


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 3:30 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It would be easier to be more tolerant of christians if you could get the fundamentalist christians to be more tolerant.

I think that the fearmongers like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and all the rest of the "Telemarketers for God" use fear of vague dangers and hints of prophesies about to be fulfilled to distract people from focusing on the here and now and real evils right in front of them that they have the power to change.  Worse yet, they interpret these biblical prophesies in a way that always works out that they are the ones who come out on top, while the people they diagree with always come out on the wrong side and are doomed to hellfire and damnation.  I think its pretty disgraceful how these type people presume to speak for god all the time; and that their main pre-occupation seems to be in asking for money.  That alone is enough to put up a big red flag, one with big letters that reads "FRAUD".

So if you want people to be more tolerant of christians, you as a christian need to renounce the fundamentalist types who are always out in the forefront claiming to represent christianity.  They are the ones who make people intolerant of christians.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:32 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Those are not fundamentalists! Jesus was a fundamentalists! and guess who he hung out with tax collectors, adultureses, and other people of low regard in society. someone who is true to the fundamentals of christianity is full of love and forgiveness. Not hatred and judgement I have no right to judge non-christains as being worse people than i am because they are not.  But i do have God's love and grace which he offers to all if they would just ask. Jesus is the root of it all not some manipulative tella-preacher.  


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 03:51 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
Chai

|      |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

However, I don't remember Jesus going around killing people and telling them they were all going to Hell. Jesus wasn't even a Christian. A fundamentalist is someone who takes an idea too extremely.
 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 10:09 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

|       |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Yes, Jesus was not a fundamentalist, in fact he never had a problem with anyone on Earth, except the Fundamentalist Phillistines.  


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:52 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Jesus had a problem with legalism, and I think all Christians should as well. If Jesus were on earth today, he would not approve of what Falwell and Robertson have been doing


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:12 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I got a question. If good works are just "recommended" but not required to get into heaven, then what's the incentive to do them at all? I think that's one HUGE loophole that can (and has) been exploited.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:15 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

you are very correct, it has been exploited. but if someone truly loves and believes in God then that would be incentive enough to do good works


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 7:44 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

well lets define fundamentalism shall we.

A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to FUNDAMENTAL principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.

The American Heritage Dictionary ©

Now lets define fundamental:

A leading or primary principle, rule, law, or article, which serves as the groundwork of a system; essential part.


Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary ©

well i would say that according to this jesus was a fundamentalist. he never swayd from what he said and if somtheing was wrong he would denounce it but he would not treat someone any differently because they sinned because he understood that all people sin(except him of course). Jesus adhered to the FUNDAMENTAL laws of judaism thus he was a fundamentalists. Not in the since that he was an onconcederate bigot like some (falwell) but he did not sway, he stood strong and gave us the ultimate grace.



-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 03:46 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

dsa, do you believe that legalism is good?


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 03:51 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Let's really define fundamentalism.  It is not a religion it is a personality disorder.  It gets associated with religion alot, because religion with its claim to be able to provide final answers to life's greatest mysteries, appeals to a mind set that is fearful of uncertainty and antagonistic towards people who might do things that the fundamentalist is afraid to try personally.

Fundamentalist exist everywhere there are commonly held beliefs, and they tend to accept the "truths" of the beliefs as perfect and they are non compromising of those beliefs even when shown they are in error.

Psychological testing procedures used to judge whether a person is competent to serve as a policeman includes fundamentalism as a disqualifying personality trait.  And that makes sense; if you get pulled over for speeding, you don't want to find youself facing a livid cop who is outraged you have violated his sense of order and perfection in the world.  You want at the worst a cop who is mildly disgusted at you for being stupid and who is going to give you a ticket no matter what excuse you give him.

Fundamentalist can't tolerate diversity of thought.  When they encounter it they many times experience an intense rage.  They can not even consider that other points of view may be valid.  That's why it is a personality disorder.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:24 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

|       |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

The key word in that is intolerant.  Jesus was anything but a fundamentalist, when the laws said that he should stone the woman on the grounds of adultery he didn't. When the laws said he couldn't heal on the sabbath he did anyway.  His best friends were whores and taxcollecters, he was anything BUT intolerant.  You state that definition like its a boost for fundamentalism, "rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism" is just another way of saying that they use religion as a means to put themselves above and judge the people who aren't like them.  Jesus was NOT a fundamentalist.


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:58 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Jesus was definitly not a fundamentalist. fundamentalism and legalism go hand in hand. Jesus spoke out against fundamentalism when he rebuked the pharisees


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 2:36 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

define legalism for me?


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:35 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

according to the dictionary, legalism is: "excessive adherence to law or formula"


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 4:39 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

but yet Jesus never swayed in his beliefs he alwys stood firm. his belief and mine is that all should be loved for God created everything. Jesus adhred to that completly and it is a fundametal basis for the christian religion. the fundamentalist you think of have warped what God said and and what jesus said to make themselves be judges. And they are not. Christ said that it was worng to have sex with a prostitute but yet he hung out with them, because of love and compasion he was acted on the fundamentals of Gods deires ofr our lives and thus he was the only fundamentalist there has ever been in the christian fath because he is the fundamentals. He was love and forgiveness, are thos e not the fundamental basis for christianity. the fundamentalists today are people who have perverted Gods love and forgivness and use that perversion for  thier own self seeking desires. they are said to e fundamental but it is quite clearly misrepresentation.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 7:50 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Keeping in mind, of course that what we know of jesus is only what his historians tell us. We dont KNOW he was absolutely perfect.
and under that def, falling i am not a legalist at all.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:58 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

thats good. i didnt think you were


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:36 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

If you could state the most fundamental basis or belief that Christianity has what would it believe, and did Jesus adheir to it?


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 10:01 AM on December 13, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

well a truly fundamentalist christian would follow the punishments given in leviticus. but Christ did not agree with these, so i guess that rules him out as a fundamentalist


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:46 AM on December 13, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

not really that would be afundamental Jew not christian. Come on do you think Jesus would kill someone for being homosexual? i think not


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 02:56 AM on December 25, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

   "For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you to your own land."   That is what God said, through Ezekiel,  over two thousand years ago.  
   It would be virtually impossible for this to be known by anyone exept God.
  Also, the land had been called Palistine for the last  few hundred years, but God said it would be called Israel.
   In 1948, the Jews (the natural decendants of Abraham)  got their land back, just as God had said.  Over the last decade (ten years) over one hundred thousand Jews have come back from surrounding nations.  It obviously is callen Israel, and not Palistine. Jesus has given us an amazing amount of evidence, in every aspect of life. Jesus died on the cross for us, so that we could become the righteousness of God.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:50 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

how does that apply to this at all?


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 7:41 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"Blessed are those who keep His testimonies, who seek Him with the whole heart!"  
         Psalms 119:2
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:13 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

listen guest, ur posts are very nice and everything but this is a DEBATE forum...not a bible verse forum


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:15 AM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

much agreed please stop.

i think we are just triping on the conotation and the denotation of the word fundamental. I know what a fundamentalist is but they don't adheir to what Christ set forth as our religion.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 02:35 AM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

ladies and gentleman I am going to have to remind you who your supposed to represent, if you want to be hostile do us a favor and tell people your athiests.    (jk)
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:48 AM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I have read alot of what both you (nova) and falling have siad, and hope you two are fighting the good fight. I honestly love you, I love everyone. I cannot leave you ignorant, you must not get caught up in disputes, you have to just say what you have to say and then go your way. If someone seems to be looking for the Light, then guide them. If you need guidence or answers, then find a brother to talk to. I love both of you, in Christs love.
If you wish to talk to me personally , you can e-mail me (bensaved2001@hotmail.com) .
2 Timothy 2:24

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:10 AM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i am definitly not an athiest. I believe i am fighting the good fight. I am not nearly so comabtive in real life as i am here i just enjoy the ability to argue points in here because the point is to debate.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 6:05 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from Chai at 3:57 PM on December 1, 2002 :
Not too long ago, a judge put a big statue of the ten commandments in his courthouse. It was ruled unconstitutional by the higher courts, but he is arguing that it's his freedom of expression to leave it up. Should he take it down

Your not debating about Ten Commandments in the courtroom.






 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:48 PM on January 7, 2003 | IP
Broker

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Why don't you register, Benjamin? I always seen you signing your guest posts. You might as well register... Or did you try to and have some trouble or something?


-------
Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 9:05 PM on January 7, 2003 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.