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     is premarital sex a sin?
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dsadevil

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all i know is that in my bible the word "yud heh vav heh" (that's the letters, its pronounced "adonai") is translated to lord.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:56 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Nova

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is that an acurate translation? Also in the hebrew culture couldn't the high preist sya gods true name only once a year in the holiest of holiest. didn't you say that it was 72 sylabals(ahh spelling) or something.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 09:58 AM on December 13, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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precisely. only the high priest knew this word (72 sylabbels) and they could only say it once a year, in the holiest of holies during Yom Kippur.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:52 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
gunmyths

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In my Bible, the King James Version, it uses the word fornication.  In First Corinthians, Paul advises marriage as a way to prevent sexual immorality- it is strongly implied that sex between a man and a woman is only acceptable in marriage.

"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." (First Corinthians 7:2)


 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 7:25 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
Nova

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But if you consider that the translation might be wrong and they were refering to sexual imorality then you find your self reading something more along the lines of adultrey not fornication. fornication is not mentioned in the old testament is isn't it odd that it just came up in the newtestament. or did a translator just assume that was included and put it in there.? Possible maybe not what really happened but i still want someone who reads grrek and hebrew to tell me what it really was mean to say. i have been told by pastors (who read both) that premarital sex is never actually mentioned int he bible although they believe it is alluded to.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 02:50 AM on December 14, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Heres an idea, you all seem to have a lot of questions about God you are trying to find the answers to.  Maybe you are looking in the wrong place?  Nova, you said you are a Christain, if you have questions about God why dont you just ask him?  If you need wisdom on something, he has said many times he will gladly give it to you if you just ask.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 1:02 PM on December 14, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Youre an intelligent 8 year old.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 5:38 PM on December 14, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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He raises a good point in an immature way. God can say to us whatever we want him to. It ends up being self validation.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:16 PM on December 14, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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i wouldnt say that....it was just a smart ass comment that directly related to the topic and was the best way to prove his point. The way i see it is that his point of view is that he heard no words so whatever he thought was what he was told....do you see my point as to my perception of his point of view....now the opposing point of view from my perspective on what would rebute that is that he probaly really didnt ask....or that he didnt ask in seriousness...god acts in mysterious way, if i pray i do not expect to actually hear a response or even to see one any time soon...remember in genesis when josph was sold as a slave bt his brothers and he became a powerful man that stored up enough grain for the seven years of Famine...remember how his brothers came and bought grain from him and buying grain from him saved his whole family from starving...this is a way that he works. What was apperently evil on the out set (his brothers selling him into slavery, and telling his father that he was killed by wild beast) turned out as a way to save many lives and his own families at that and also bringing him and his family great wealth.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 8:21 PM on December 14, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Whether or not you understand comments that seem immature is your problem, town.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 8:26 PM on December 14, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Understand?  What's to understand?  You said, "oh yeah, well God said you suck, na na na na na."  Maybe we should see whose dad can beat the other up?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:11 PM on December 14, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Now you're just choosing to ignore that it could mean a little more. I find that immature, actually.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 01:52 AM on December 15, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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i have to be a jerk at last and say i think your religious types really sound crazy. Ask God about the correct interpretation of sexual immorality? maybe you could ask him for winning lotto numbers too? in religion this is called prayer and divine intervention. in my father's profession it's called schizophrenia. i have a feeling beavischrist's point is that the "answer" from God is just going to be a confirmation of what ever psychological need you happen to have.

DsaDevil: what the heck? I have to ask why you agree with this loony business of "faith". I mean, you have mentioned before that you are attracted to Judaism because it is in line with the values, etc. you already had. so? why would that make you believe in the existence of God or 7 hundred something syllables of his name or any other nonsense like this? and puh-leeze don't say something like "oh, alex, you fool, logic isn't all it's cracked up to be. spirit and sentiment are just as important!" that's crap and you know it. you have no good reason whatsoever to believe and for you to believe regardless does not make it faith; it makes it embarrassing neediness. just because you want it, or because you "cannot imagine/live in a world without God" (I love that oh-so-common-pathetic-phrase used by believers) does not make His existence true.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:51 AM on December 15, 2002 | IP
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good for you alex, finnaly somebody understands what ive been trying to say, knowledge is everything, sprituality is nothing. -i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:14 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Im sure Alex is pleased to be in the company of such noted intellectuals as Xenjael. As for the whole 72 sylabbels thing, that is just what traditional Jewish belief is. I didn't say it was true, but to these folk it is the basis for there belief, so I was setting them straight that they weren't even getting the debate right within there value structure.
As for the whole God thing well, if they're is a God and I don't believe in one, I have a problem. If there isn't a God, and I do believe in one, no harm done. It can't hurt to believe in a God, but it might hurt not believe in one. As long as I dont let religion drive my life or opinions (something I think we can all agree I dont ) then I dont see the harm in it.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 1:15 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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He's acting? Could have fooled me.


NOTE TO THISTOWN-
This is a joke. I apologize if I have acted childish. I understand that only little kids appreciate humor. I know this because I asked god and he told me so.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 3:44 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Oh I appreciate humor....it's just that I've yet to see any.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 7:01 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
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yes but still, he's been treating me like im some kind of fool!
-iamxenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:32 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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the humor that beavis uses is actually a very god way to say his point. You criticizing it is what i see as a way to take the topic off hand and attack a different thing. Read into what he means and you wil actually see a very valid point. I see it...i dont necessarily agree but i see his point nonetheless...

(Edited by madbilly 12/15/2002 at 8:38 PM).


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 8:37 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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dsadevil:

I am stunned by the level of BLAH in your response. I thought you would have something smarter than that. faith isn't playing your cards right. if that's the reason you believe, than you don't really believe, and God would know you're a schmuck anyways. basically, i don't believe you really answered the question truthfully, cause that's just too plain dumb. try again (did alex finally ask a question you don't like to think about...?)

by the way, can all the breeders stops whining and bitching about who's making fun of them and who's making jokes???? just freaking debate.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 8:56 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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whats so wrong with faith. reason is not everything


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:56 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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To be perfectly honest, I dont know why I believe in God. Logically, you are right Alex. Its just a feeling I have. As I am well aware that this isnt enough to convince anyone, so I dont try, and dont believe I have the right to. Nor do I believe that my opinion holds logical water. So logically I dont, but that inner voice does. As long as I dont prostlytize, does it really matter?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:17 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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if 90% of the world's population walked around believing that Barney the Purple Dinosaur created the universe, would you be so quick to say, "Oh, well as long as they don't push their Barney code of ethics and lifestyle on me, I think it's fine that they believe that"? Or would you feek inclined to explain to them how absurd that belief is and maybe even try to convince them they are wrong?

ya know, I REALLY don't go around trying to destroy religious belief, and i REALLY don't care what you believe in as long as you keep it in your head. but the fact of the matter is you represent the exception and not the rule for religious people. Their ideas and rules and values permeate all societies and it makes me sick. not just in america. everyday people blow each other up and invade countries and murder children for the sake of Barney the Purple Dinosaur, and someday some asshole is going to turn NYC or Washington DC into a cloud of vapor because he thinks Barney told him to do so. So YES, I do think religion should be wiped off the face of the earth. the damage it causes is so immense, and any good it does not require religion to accomplish.

finally, i think your answer just plain sucks. more frustrating than dumb religious people are people who believe but are smart enough to understand there is no reason too -- in fact, smart enough to basically admit it (as you just did) and still not change their minds. why can't you just shut up that inner voice (which is just your psychological need for a belief in something greater) and cast aside Linus' comfort blanket?


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:05 AM on December 17, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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why should i? read linus' justification for his blanket, they mirror my own. i dont consider them illegitimate justifications at all.
And, Alex, if you think that you should go around telling the "Purple dinosaurites" that they should give up there religion when the religion does no harm, then we part ways on that regard. They have every right to that belief. Remind me again what horrible harm buddhism has done to the world? or judiasm? or shintoism? You condemn all religion on the basis of a few fanatics, and that is something you are smarter than. The value systems judiasm, buddhism, and for that matter christianity theoritcally uphold are good. There is no reason to get rid of them. There is no reason to take away a primary reason people have for being good. By "eliminating" all religion you try to impose your views on others, which is one of your main problems with religion in the first place. Even your claim that agnosticism is merely acknowledging that "we dont know" rings hollow, because for all we know sakata really DOES know that Jesus is our savior and she is trying to convince us of the truth. Even agnosticism isn't a sure bet. Don't be contradictory in upholding your own beliefs, alex. You are smarter than that too.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 6:27 PM on December 17, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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i don't go around telling people they should stop believing in Barney, i just secretly hope religious belief will be eventually be bred out (unfortunately I can't contribute to that).

i never said they didn't have the RIGHT to believe. but i also have the right to say that belief is stupid, and it is.

a few fanatics? those few have an enormous amount of power. The Christian Right keeps me from being able to be married, to have sex legally. The fundamentalist Muslim terrorists can fly planes into buildings, and someday will have a nuclear weapon. Jews and Muslims are killing each other in the streets in Israel because somehow they can't live together even though their religions basically come from the same thing. people die every for religion. that is stupid.

ok, i have no problem with buddhists. i like 'em. Jews...well, ok, i like most of them too (i think Sharon is a murderer though by the way). but can't we get rid of the Christians??? please. or at least the Catholics??? i mean c'mon.

and if sakata knows the savior, i feel better off being ignorant, because the way she talks doesn't speak much for enlightenment.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:08 AM on December 19, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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alex, you preach of intolerance but then you turn around and say that we shoud "get rid of" Christians. you're starting to sound like Adolph Hitler who wants to "get rid of" the Jews.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 3:54 PM on December 22, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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are u so desperate to find some fault in what i am saying that u have to pick apart statements I made in which i am obviously not being serious? i don't want to murder all Christians. I DO hope humanity "outgrows" the need for institutionalized religion, and eventually, all religious faith. so don't ridiculous comments that u know have no basis. nothing about me or what i have said in any way suggests it would ever be appropriate to compare me to Hitler. so don't waste our time with pointless comparisons.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:27 AM on December 23, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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well you said it


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 06:35 AM on December 23, 2002 | IP
Pie

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God is defined as the greatest.
Something that does not exist is not as great as something that does exist.
God must exist.


Meh.


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 4:53 PM on December 23, 2002 | IP
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 "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you."

 If you trust God with everything you Have, and abide in His word He will giude you to all understanding.

"If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives liberally to all without reproach, and it will be given to him, but let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind."    


1st= Matthew 6:33
2nd=James
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:44 PM on December 23, 2002 | IP
Nova

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Thank you Sakata for the advice i enjoy talking with God refularly and wish to do so more. My personal belief is that we must consult the spirit God's book and God's people on these matters. take things from them all and come to a conclusion based on all of them. My personal conviction is that i will not have premarital sex, but i can not go so far as saying that it is wrong for a christian to do though. God does call us to judge others of the faith. But he does not call us to judge anyone that is outside of the faith. Alex i can not judge you for being homosexual but if there was someone who was homosexual in the church then i have to judge them, the bible says not to even eat with such a person.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 02:30 AM on December 25, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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Nova...you are so self rightous..."not to even eat with them" whare is this from. Didnt Jesus eat with Whores thieves and evil tax collectors and the scum of the earth. You can not judge anyone, not in your religion not on the street and not some pagan. That is utmost self rightousness.  Where does the bible say not to eat with such a person and where does it say to judge people in the church but not outside the church.



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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:44 AM on December 25, 2002 | IP
Nova

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wow harsh i may be self righteous but this is not a case of it. how about reading all of 1 corinthinas 5 it clearly states this to be so there. Christ did eat with whores but they were not christian. he would not have tolerated a hypocrite that said they were a christian but then was a prostitute and said it was ok to be a prostitute. please do some research before being so harsh.


"But now i am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolator or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindeler. with such a man do not eat."

1 corinthians 5:11


and their is more.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 03:57 AM on December 25, 2002 | IP
Nova

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Truly Mr. Billy,

 you sure are pretty ignorant of what the bible says for being such a wise person, oh and you are a hypocrite to.
if i am not mistake you said this: "Nova...you are so self rightous..."

and i believe that would be judgmental would it not

oh and you also said this: "You can not judge anyone"

ouch really harsh all in the same post too!
its not ok for me to judge others but if you say iam am wrong and self rightous then by golly you must be right. NO!!!


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 04:21 AM on December 25, 2002 | IP
Nova

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Back to the point fornication i believe is a mistranslation of the greek word, (i believe this was brought up in the sexual imorallity thread). So if you can't use that verse i believe you are left to taking things from context or just general ideas presented in the bible, your own beliefes, the beliefs of your brothers and sisters in Christ and also prayer. Ultimatly going back to what Sakata said.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 04:25 AM on December 25, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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hate to break the news to ya Nova, but the Bible clearly states that we should not judge eachother. it is only up to God to judge


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:56 AM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Nova

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actually falling the bible calls us to not judge those outside the faith but to judge those that profess to be christians but also say it is alright to sin. Read 1st corinthians 5 it talks about it exactly. For example a person who is gay and practices and says it is ok to be homosexual should not be allowed in the church. Because it makes those outside the faith think that it is alright to do such things. don't kick them out solely because they sin, everyone sins but those who say it is alright to sin must not be allowed.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 7:29 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Nova

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Oh and billy where did you go i know you have been on i was enjoying this debate with you.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 7:31 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
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  Read Matthew 5:28  and  1 Corinthians 7
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:24 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Nova

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i have several times

what do ou get from them?

neither of them are concerning premarital sex.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 7:35 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
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Notice 1 Corinthians 7:9 "..if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry...."  Now if sexual intercourse is being had before the vows are undergone, then no "self-control" is being exersized. However Paul spoke with wisdom in regards to the lustful desires that some men keep in their hearts, assuming that they know enough to refrain from the act.
       Paul writes in verse 34 of the same chapter as follows,"There is a difference between a wife and a virgin." Now watch carefully to his words after that. "The UNMARRIED woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy.... But she who is MARRIED cares about the things of the world-how she may please her husband. "  Notice, that the second part of the analogy has substituted the "virgin" for the "unmarried" woman.  Paul is obviously assuming that we understand the importance of the marriage vows.
   Fornication consists of an unmarried relationship involving intercourse according to the "Webster's New World Dictionary" (third college edition). Note Paul's list of who will not enter into the Kingdom in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, among which it states fornicators. Yes it appears that that is the most accurate depiction of the origanal Greek word
((por'-nos) because of my lack of ability for correct puncuation, I just jotted the english pronounciation of the original Greek word).  
    In a parable in Isaiah 62:5 it says,"For as a young man marries a virgin,...", in comparison with the church's marriage to The Father.

for ponderfication; what do you think of the comparison of us as the bride of Christ? What does that comparison say about the actual bride and bridegroom? I believe that says alot about how important and sacred the marriage vows are supposed to be.    
               Benjamin

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:19 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Havah

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We are not arguing the fact that it may be important.  That is not the issue.  I think I can safely say that both Nova and I agree that sex before marriage is not a good thing; the point is that the while the Bible clearly states what is or is not a sin it does not state that sex before marriage is, although I think we can all agree that it is looked down apon.  Fornication is described in Leviticus, and I don't believe premarital sex is mentioned in the detailed list.  Would you trust an English dictionary over what is defined in the Bible?  The point of this debate is: why the church puts such a huge emphasis on it while they disregard other sins, which are clearly stated multiple times as such, as easily forgiveable?  I know the reason, but many people do not, so I thought it'd make an interesting debate topic because most people have an opinion about it.  


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Posts: 15 | Posted: 11:48 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
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Nova had personally asked me to give insight on the subject, and I just cited numerous sources for him. Please don't be so snappy, really, please.    
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:57 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Veria

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I might have missed some parts of this debate and someone could have mentioned this already but this is what i have to say about it... In my understanding merige is a promice... promice to god (if done under a preacher).... the promice is that of commitment to eachother... the promice is that not to part.... therefore to become one body in his view due to that a family is one body in our society... a married man and a woman is a family therefore one body... if you areone body you shall share a body in that.... this is where I get our christian society sees that having sex before marige is bad... becouse we do not share one "body" in a view of our christian society today.... till we are married... well any way .... i am new to this debate so.... please fill me in if that is a valid point... thanks


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Posts: 32 | Posted: 8:51 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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I dont think premarital sex is a sin. However i think that in todays society people are better off waiting untill they are married to have sex.


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Posts: 85 | Posted: 7:06 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
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Notice 1 Corinthians 7:9 "..if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry...."  Now if sexual intercourse is being had before the vows are undergone, then no "self-control" is being exersized. However Paul spoke with wisdom in regards to the lustful desires that some men keep in their hearts, assuming that they know enough to refrain from the act.
      Paul writes in verse 34 of the same chapter as follows,"There is a difference between a wife and a virgin." Now watch carefully to his words after that. "The UNMARRIED woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy.... But she who is MARRIED cares about the things of the world-how she may please her husband. "  Notice, that the second part of the analogy has substituted the "virgin" for the "unmarried" woman.  Paul is obviously assuming that we understand the importance of the marriage vows.
  Fornication consists of an unmarried relationship involving intercourse according to the "Webster's New World Dictionary" (third college edition). Note Paul's list of who will not enter into the Kingdom in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, among which it states fornicators. Yes it appears that that is the most accurate depiction of the origanal Greek word
((por'-nos) because of my lack of ability for correct puncuation, I just jotted the english pronounciation of the original Greek word).  
   In a parable in Isaiah 62:5 it says,"For as a young man marries a virgin,...", in comparison with the church's marriage to The Father.

for ponderfication; what do you think of the comparison of us as the bride of Christ? What does that comparison say about the actual bride and bridegroom? I believe that says alot about how important and sacred the marriage vows are supposed to be.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:26 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
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How about this for you guys...for those who don't know what to think about premarital sex...just something to ponder

"Let marriage be honored among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers."
-Hebrews 13:3

This one is part of a story from the old testiment, but make of it what you would like...

"But if this charge is true, and evidence of the girl's virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father's house and there her townsmen shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst."
-Deuteronomy 22:20-21
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:26 PM on March 4, 2003 | IP
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In my opinion premartial sex is not a sin...it may say that in the Bible, but in 1 BCE things were different, and also people do it all the time and I dont see them being struck by lightning..and does God know what you think, what if you love the other person, just as Mary loved Joseph...were they married (officially)???
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:47 PM on December 10, 2003 | IP
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Just something to add to Novas comments...thats a total lie...just to let you know there are three religions that all believe in the same God and also just because you strongly believe something doesn't make it true, and what you just said was racist...isn't something like that in the bible..."thou shalt not be racist?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:51 PM on December 10, 2003 | IP
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Did you know?

The Bible word sometimes translated fornication does not mean ?sex before marriage.?

In the Bible, weddings were purely secular.

Under Old Testament law, casual sex was impossible. For an unmarried man to have sex with an unmarried woman was to make an even more binding commitment than normal marriage.

In God?s eyes, a one night stand makes two people one.

There is a deep spiritual significance in a virgin bride shedding blood on her wedding night.

Christians are free to break many Church and Western traditions.

Despite all the talk, the power and mystery of sex is even less understood in our era.

Orientation

The only way we can truly understand our sexuality is to learn from the Creator of sex. If you believe you have greater access to the mind of the Creator than Jesus, I?m intrigued as to why someone of your infinite knowledge bothers to surf the internet. Jesus, the authority on spiritual matters, regarded the Bible in a way that staggers even many Christians. For a glimpse at this, consider how Jesus quoted Genesis 2:24. We will see later that this is a key Scripture for a true understanding of sex, but for the moment note the original context of the verse Jesus cited. Genesis doesn?t introduce this verse with anything remotely like, ?God said.? It reads like a comment from the human author. And yet in quoting this passage, Jesus said these were the very words of the Creator. See scriptures below:

The original context

Genesis 2:23 The man said, ?This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ?woman,? for she was taken out of man.? (24) For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. (25) The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Jesus? Comment: ?The Creator . . . said . . .?

Matthew 19:4 ?Haven?t you read,? he replied, ?that at the beginning the Creator ?made them male and female,? (5) and said, ?For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh??

This is typical of how Jesus revered Scripture. He constantly treated the Bible as the very word of God. That boggles the mind, but to reject this attitude to Scripture is to claim to know God better than the world?s greatest Teacher and to pronounce Jesus Christ a deluded fool. Hopefully, I am not so vain as to consider myself a greater moral authority than Jesus. My goal is to have Jesus? attitude to the accuracy and supreme authority of the Bible.

Background

Let?s start with the Old Testament foundation on which the Son of God built his teaching.

Under the Old Covenant, parents kept as proof of their daughter?s virginity the blood-stained garment or sheet from the wedding night. If the husband ever accused his wife of not being a virgin when he married her, the bride?s parents would produce the stained cloth. From this the man would be proved guilty of slandering his wife. So seriously is virginity taken that the prescribed punishment for making such a scandalous false accusation was for him to be physically whipped, severely fined and by law forbidden to ever divorce his wife as long as she lived. If, however, the bride had not been a virgin upon marrying, she would receive the same penalty as any man or woman guilty of adultery (Leviticus 20:10), that is:

Deuteronomy 22:21 she shall be brought to the door of her father?s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father?s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Note how it is assumed the girl went straight from her father?s care to marriage. People probably married so young in those days that sex before marriage was a less prevalent temptation than adultery. This would explain why the Bible mentions adultery more often than fornication.

The emphasis is on the woman?s virginity, simply because there is no corresponding way to determine physically that a man is a virgin. Not even an intact hymen proves a woman has maintained God?s standard of sexual purity; it is simply suggestive of the purity God looks for. The biblical principle that premarital sex is wrong, applies equally to both sexes.

All other considerations aside, for a man to do anything that would result in a person?s death (in this case, involving a woman in premarital sex) must be a grave offence. Moreover, under Old Testament law, what applies to one gender can be assumed to apply with equal force to the other gender. For an example in the opposite direction, the Ten Commandments says ?You shall not covet your neighbor?s wife? and makes no mention of it being wrong for a woman to covet her neighbor?s husband (Exodus 20:17). On the surface, this might seem a double standard favoring women. In reality, the opposite gender equivalent must be assumed to be equally wrong.

The Bible does not attempt an exhaustive list of every possibility. It frequently gives just a few examples of sin and of righteousness, expecting us, under God?s guidance, to appropriately apply and adapt these guidelines to different scenarios.

Anyone coming to the Bible with a view to find loopholes to excuse their sin, is not worthy of Jesus.

The penalty for adultery applied because any woman who kept quiet about her lost virginity, can be presumed to have voluntarily had sex with a married man. This presumption is reasonable because under God?s law if an unmarried man had sex with an unmarried woman she could have safely blown the whistle on him. If she wanted to marry him, he would be forced to do so regardless of his wishes and he could never, ever divorce her. This applied regardless of whether pregnancy was involved. The man?s only escape from life-long marital commitment was if the woman refused to marry him, in which case the man still had to pay her full dowry and suffer the public shame. What he did was wrong ? so wrong that it exposed him to life-long obligations.

God's Revelation Since Then...

Does the New Testament maintain this strong stance against premarital sex? Is the power of sexual union an unalterable fact built into the very fabric of creation? We can answer with absolute certainty, but to do so we must dig deeper into Scripture than some people might have thought necessary.

This is because the Greek word translated fornication in some Bible versions is better translated sexual sin. Given the divinely inspired Old Testament attitude to premarital sex it is obvious that in Jewish culture ? the background to virtually all the New Testament ? sex before public marital commitment was regarded as sexual sin. It might possibly be argued, however, that the Greek word is a little too broad to prove emphatically from this word alone that the New Testament strongly forbids sex before marriage. For the hard to convince, we?ll delve deeper and make some fascinating discoveries.

When speaking against divorce and the sin of adultery (Matthew 19:3-6), Jesus quoted Genesis 2:24 and said that what God has fused together, no one should try to sever. But who is it that God declares to be so inextricably joined? Is it only those who have had a church wedding? The Bible never even speaks of a church wedding. The Old Testament prescribes sacred rites for the birth of a child, for determining marital unfaithfulness, even regulations for cleansing after sexual relations, but nothing for a marriage ceremony. In the words of the Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia ? . . . marriage was a purely civil contract, not formalized by any religious ceremony.?

Does God only join those who first seek his will about their relationship? Any Christian who is still free to make the decision (that is, not already bound to a non-Christian) should only marry a true Christian. Other than that, the Bible doesn?t even say we should consult God as to who we marry ? although it would be the height of stupidity to deny ourselves access to his wisdom by not fervently seeking his guidance, and to neglect seeking his guidance is hardly living in submission to Christ.

Scripture is emphatic that it is a gross spiritual perversion for a born again Christian to be sexually intimate with a non-Christian. If it were possible to defile the Holy Lord, this act would do it. The matter is that grave. And yet God takes sexual union so seriously that for Christians who find themselves one flesh with a non-Christian, the Faithful One goes to the extreme of making the non-Christian physically (not spiritually) holy in order to maintain a bond that turns God?s stomach. Let us look at the Scriptures.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (15) What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? (16) What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. (17) Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you. (18) I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.

1 Corinthians 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! (16) Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, The two will become one flesh. (17) But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. (18) Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. (19) Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; (20) you were bought at a price. Therefore honour God with your body. . . . 7:10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. (11) But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. . . . (13) And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. (14) For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.


So what is it that creates this bond ? the two becoming one ? that Jesus declared no one should rip apart? Does an official piece of paper cause this bond? A solemn ceremony? No. The bond that no one should break is created by the most intimate of human commitments. Scripture reveals that a single act of sexual intercourse ? no matter how brief or superficial ? makes two people one in God?s sight.

1 Corinthians 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! (16) Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, ?The two will become one flesh.?

A man using a prostitute is not only not married to her, they clearly have no thought of commitment to each other and yet Scripture declares them one.

This critical piece fits the jigsaw. Adam and Eve experienced this special union, and yet there would have been virtually no similarity between their ?wedding? and modern Western weddings or legal arrangements. What God saw as binding was the act of intercourse itself. If we are to have God?s attitude, the act of sex should therefore be as binding as marriage and should be associated with lifelong commitment. This, too, fits what we saw in the Old Testament, that an unmarried man who seduces an unmarried girl is compelled by law to marry her. If there is doubt that she gave full consent, the woman has the right of refusal, but because he initiated sexual union the man loses all rights to choose independence. He is bound to her through a single sexual act.

It might also explain the rather startling omission of any divinely-ordained wedding rituals. The most sacred aspect of entering marriage is not some religious ceremony but the act of sexual union, which should ideally involve the shedding of virgin blood. God?s Word could have instituted religious rituals associated with a couple?s first sexual experience, but that would suggest that only if those rituals occurred is sexual union binding, whereas it would seem that in God?s eyes any initial act of sexual union is sacred, and is equivalent to vowing a lifelong commitment.

If we would not marry without total commitment to a person, how much more should we wait for total commitment before engaging in the act that by divine plan should be reserved for the consummation of marriage? If we would not be so irresponsible as to flippantly rush into a wedding ceremony without solemn expectations of a lifetime of commitment, should we treat with less respect that which is even more sacred? Sexual union is of such mind-boggling significance that to have sexual relations outside of marriage is equivalent to defiling that which is holy, and we cannot do that without defiling ourselves and offending the God who made us. It would be to our shame, and with terrifying consequences, to treat our Creator and Judge with such disdain. We rightly recognize the gravity of the sin of rape ? sex against a person?s will ? but what about sex against God?s will?

A marriage license is a piece of paper that gift-wraps the sacred treasure of sexual union. How dare any of us imagine we are honoring God by valuing the paper if we have been trashing the priceless gift! It is the height of hypocrisy to make a show of reverencing a man-made ceremony if we have no remorse about having trampled underfoot that which comes from God himself ? sexual union. I?m not for a moment suggesting we should not respect the piece of paper, but for us to take care to avoid foolishly rushing into marriage is a sham if we don?t treat sexual union with equal care.

Note that in God?s revelation about sexual morality there is no mention of pregnancy. The sin is not in letting a baby be born out of wedlock. The sin is in relating sexually before marriage, irrespective of whether conception occurs.

And God is not talking merely about sexual intercourse. In his eyes, unmarried couples can sin sexually without ever getting close to what the world regards as ?going all the way.? We know from our own feelings that what bonds two people together is not primarily the positioning of body parts, but the sharing of sexual pleasure. The notion that only sexual intercourse is sinful is so far off course, that in reality, most sexual sin occurs between strangers who never even touch. Jesus brought to this sin-ravished planet the startling revelation that even looking sexually at a stranger is a sexual offense as serious as adultery or fornication. The morality by which God will judge us is so much more sophisticated than that of western society that many of us cannot even grasp the concept.

Deliberately cultivating yearnings for anything that, if acted out, would be immoral, is as depraved as physically committing that act. For example, the thought might keep coming to you about relating sexually with someone you are not married to. Keep pushing that thought aside and your purity will remain intact. To intentionally develop the thought for your sensual enjoyment, however, is no less sinful than acting out your fantasy.

To understand this moral principle, consider Jesus? teaching that hate is as bad as murder. Suppose a person is trying his hardest to shoot someone dead. He takes careful aim but to his great disappointment he misses and the person escapes unharmed. Does that make him more righteous than if he were a better shot and the bullet killed the man? The consequences for the victim would be vastly different but in both scenarios the sinfulness of the offender would be identical.

Let?s take this a step further. Suppose Phil and Sam hate Barry with equal venom. They both wish he were dead. If Phil could push a button, terminating Barry?s existence and be certain that no one would ever know, who did it, he?d do it. The one thing keeping Phil from murder is that he is too scared about the possible personal consequences (public humiliation and imprisonment) if he were caught. But Sam is braver and so kills Barry. Should we regard Phil as more moral, simply because he is the bigger coward? Obviously, Barry would be exceedingly better off if both men were cowards. Morally, however, both haters are equally corrupt, since both wanted him dead.

If you deliberately savor the thought, you want the sin as much as an impulsive person who acts out your daydreams. For anyone mentally engaging in immorality, the spiritual consequences are therefore as serious to the offender as if he had committed the physical act, even though the consequences to the victim are much less.

Deliberately indulging in mental sex corrupts you, whereas deliberately inciting mental sex in others corrupts both them and you, because it makes you the tempter and a willing partner in their sin.

How far can a dating couple go? All I know is that petting and sex talk are playing with nitroglycerine and that what is safe for one person might not be safe for another. Like fingerprints, each person?s sexuality and vulnerability is unique.

It is sex, not a piece of paper, that ties the knot. In God?s sight, any couple who have had sexual relations are no longer independent entities. They are ?one flesh.? Their lives are as bound together as Siamese twins. To separate that which God has declared to be one is clearly contrary to God?s ways. ?Uncommitted sex? is like an ?uncommitted? leap off a cliff ? once you jump you are committed to the consequences whether you like it or not. I won?t hazard a guess as to the implications for someone who has already engaged in sex outside marriage, but it is very obvious that we should do everything to avoid getting ourselves into the bind resulting from having sexual relations with someone we later find we don?t want to be bound to for life.

Sex While Engaged

People engaged to be married usually expect in every fiber of their being to be bound to each other for life. Most are so serious about their commitment that they cannot imagine not marrying. And yet the fact remains that despite their certainty, some engaged couples discover that it would be a tragic mistake to marry. They break the engagement, heartbroken but relieved that they discovered their incompatibility before it was too late. In other words, although they feel absolutely committed to each other, when it comes to the crunch they discover they do not regard themselves as bound together for life. They believe they can break their commitment without it being as serious in God?s eyes as divorce. This confirms that engagement is not an acceptable time for sexual relations. Sex is more binding, in God?s eyes, than we regard an engagement.

Breaking With Convention

Christians are free to be creative and break with Western traditions. One must be mindful of the wisdom, ?Marry in haste, repent in leisure.? Morally, however, it is acceptable to marry:

long before you can afford an engagement ring

long before you obtain a wedding dress

long before you live together

long before you have a honeymoon

long before you have a flashy wedding

(You could, if you choose, have the simplest wedding with a pastor and a couple of witnesses and much later celebrate your marriage with a re-enactment replete with traditional trimmings.)

All we need do is ensure our actions are Scriptural, and comply with civil law, and that our actions do not become a source of temptation to weaker Christians (this latter vital principle is expounded in Romans 14:1-15:5; 1 Corinthians 8)

Besides providing a valuable incentive to ensure the relationship is for life, there is a sound scriptural basis for saying sexual relations should only commence after a marriage that is both legal and publicly announced.

Romans 12:17 . . . Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

2 Corinthians 8:21 For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men.

1 Thessalonians 4:12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders . . .

1 Timothy 5:14 So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander.


Although most of these Scriptures do not refer specifically to marriage, they underline a divine moral principle highly applicable to one?s sexual union. We are ?our brother?s keeper.? Our inescapable moral obligation to everyone who sees us is to take ?pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men? (2 Corinthians 8:21).

If a ?marriage? is not legal, why not? It?s almost always because one or both partners think they can opt out of the relationship at some later date. This concept is totally contrary to God?s ways.

At the very least, if a couple want sex before the big wedding that they do not yet have finances for, they should legally marry before the big wedding and announce this to the world. Otherwise, they are exalting pride or extravagance above God and morality. Neither is it acceptable to compromise morality because of relatives. In the words of Jesus, ?Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me? (Matthew 10:37). If any reason for deferring being legally married is important, it is important enough to also defer marital relations.

Like it or not, to have ?marital relations? without marriage is to tell the world that it is acceptable to stretch the boundaries. In practice, this usually has the effect of encouraging observers to take even greater liberties than you had taken. The great spiritual hazard in trying to push the limits of what is acceptable is that it is not only questionable in itself but most observers would be unable to tell the difference between your actions and immorality, and so some would be tempted to follow what they consider to be your example and commit blatant immorality. If so, God would hold them responsible for yielding to the temptation, but he would hold you responsible for causing the temptation.

The Mystery Of Sex

We commenced by looking at the Old Testament emphasis upon the shedding of a virgin?s blood when consummating marriage. Having given highest priority to what is indisputable, let?s return for a deeper exploration. I think you will find it fascinating and powerful.

Scripture calls marriage a covenant. This term is highly applicable because the couple enter into a very deep and binding agreement. In biblical thought, covenants are sealed by the shedding of blood. We often think in terms of animal blood, but the ultimate covenant was sealed by human blood (that of our precious Lord) and all divinely ordained covenants and sacrifices point symbolically to this, the greatest of covenants and sacrifices. So it is not surprising that human blood had a role in some other biblical covenants. The Abrahamic covenant, which all Jews entered into, was sealed by male circumcision. Like a virgin at the consummation of her marriage, circumcision involved the shedding of human blood from the organ of marital union. Ideally, boys were circumcised just days after birth ? the closest fallen humanity can get to innocence ? and a bride?s blood suggests her sexual purity. Both of these events seem to point symbolically to the far greater purity of our Savior, whose loss of blood was far greater, in order to seal a far greater covenant that makes him one with you. Scriptures relevant to this paragraph are:

Marriage As A Covenant

Proverbs 2:16 . . . the wayward wife . . . (17) who has left the partner of her youth and ignored the covenant she made before God.

Malachi 2:14 . . . It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.


Biblical Covenants Typically Involve the Shedding of Blood

Exodus 24:8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, "This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words."

Zechariah 9:11 As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.

Hebrews 9:18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. (19) When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. (20) He said, ?This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.?

Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, ?This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you . . .?

Hebrews 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 13:20 May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep


The link between circumcision and the shedding of blood

Exodus 4:25 But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son's foreskin and touched Moses' feet with it. ?Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,? she said. (26) So the LORD let him alone. (At that time she said ?bridegroom of blood,? referring to circumcision.)

Link Between Circumcision and Covenant

Genesis 17:11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.

The Age at Which Circumcision Should Ideally Occur

Genesis 17:12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised .  .  .

Although Scripture does not specifically state that the shedding of virgin blood seals the marriage covenant, it fits the divine scheme so perfectly that it is hard to imagine it not being in God?s mind when he created our bodies and instituted marriage.

To be the acceptable sacrifice for our sins, Jesus had to be sinless. (The debt we owe justice is death, declares Scripture. After paying the death penalty for our own sin, we sinners would have nothing left to pay for anyone else?s sins.) Christ preserved his moral purity to consummate his relationship with us. Similarly, singles should preserve their sexual purity before consummating marital union with their life?s partner.

Significantly, Christ?s union with us, which his shed blood instigated, is seen by Scripture as being marriage-like. This is taught throughout the Bible. Consider, for example, Ezekiel 16, which speaks of God?s covenant with his people as being like a marriage covenant:

(7) . . . Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, you who were naked and bare. (8) Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you [a symbolic act that in biblical times was associated with a marriage proposal ? compare Boaz and Ruth (Ruth 3:9)] and covered your nakedness. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became mine.

The interconnection between union with a human through physical intimacy and union with Christ through his shed blood is most clearly spelt out in Ephesians 5:

(31) ?For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.?
(32) This is a profound mystery ? but I am talking about Christ and the church.


This Scripture reveals that the mystery of sex is intertwined with a spiritual mystery. It would seem that the Creator has built into the very core of our being ? our sexuality ? ?laws of nature? that parallel and point to the most intimate and most vital of all unions ? that between God and us. Scripture is emphatic that before planet earth existed, God had already planned that his eternal Son would pour out his life-blood in order to be intimately and permanently committed to us. It seems that Creator God had this in focus when designing the human body, intending that the covenant of life-long marriage be sealed by the shedding of virgin blood, just like our never-ending union with him was sealed by the shedding of his Son?s sinless blood.

Although the physical sign of virginity is placed within the woman, the Holy Lord is not party to double standards. He expects the same degree of consecration in men, as typified by our Lord instituting circumcision whereby males belonging to him bore on the organ of sexual union the mark of consecration to God and of commitment to God?s morality.

The profound similarity between sexual union with a human and spiritual union with God is hinted at in yet another Scripture:

1 Corinthians 6:16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, ?The two will become one flesh.? (17) But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. (18) Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. (19) Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own

Note how in this passage, as in the former, Scripture moves immediately from referring to physical union to spiritual union.

?The two will become one flesh.? But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

This connection between the two types of union is not merely symbolic, it is built so deeply into our very being that wrong sexual union affects us more profoundly than any other violation of God?s law:

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

And just as our Savior?s shed blood consummated his union with us and initiated a covenant we should never break, so the covenant between humans initiated by intercourse should never be broken.

If, like so many of us, you have already lost your physical virginity, do not imagine you have nothing left to preserve. Even without the shedding of blood, sexual union is just as real and as binding as ever. Consider the prostitute Scripture warns against becoming one with. Is she likely to be a virgin? And yet sex with this non-virgin still makes a person one with her.

Be it through thoughts or whatever, all of us have tragically lost our virginity, but our past is not a valid reason for repeating a sin. In the words of Jesus, ?Neither do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more? (John 8:11).

And the most exciting incentive for acting like a virgin is about to unfold. If you let him, God will wipe out your previous offense, making you a virgin again. Despite its initial appearance, the concluding part of this posting, is equally relevant to both genders.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:52 PM on December 23, 2003 | IP
    
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