PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Religon Debates
     Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus
       some of the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
Sakata

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I found this Website and thought it debate worthy... http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/ch19/default.htm

(Edited by Sakata 10/13/2002 at 5:11 PM).


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 5:10 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
Sakata

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

And if your still not convinced...  http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/messiah.htm


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 5:13 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

|        |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

How do we know Jesus wasnt some psycho claiming to be gods son because he was looney???


-------
I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:34 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
Sakata

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

well, if you had read the sites I posted it would obeviously elminate that option wouldnt it?


-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 7:38 PM on October 17, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i think exxoss is the looney one


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 2:24 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Most unimpressive. Which of these fulfillments refer to something outside of the bible?
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 10:50 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:


   ARE WE LIVING IN THE LAST DAYS? DOES THE BIBLE PROVE IT?
   
  It is undeniable that we are in fact living in the last days, it is time to get right with the Lord today. Lets follow what Jesus said in Luke 21 to see if it is exactly what we see happening today.

  The chapter starts out with Jesus talking about how everything is going to pass away, then His disciples asked Him how they would know when this is going to happen. It is interesting that He told them even though He knew that they would not see this time, yet He spoke as though they would. Jesus said those things directly to you and I and this generation, and things are happening just as they were written.

                                               Luke 21
8: Jesus starts out by warning them not to be decieved because many    people will come in His name claiming to be the Christ. Christ means messiah, and many have claimed that indeed. Through these deceptive teachings of false messiah's or other god's , many of which twisting  the real Bible, billions are decieved or tricked into a lie. The "koran" the book the muslims claim is "holy" actually takes some of the old testiment of scripture, and decides thousands of years later, that God chose Ishmeal and not Isaac. An absurd supposition, but more than 1.5 billion people believe it. Over 800,000 people claim "buddism" as their religion. Many of both are being converted to followers of Christ daily, glory to God.

9: Jesus tells us of wars and rumors of wars. This has always been the case, there have always been wars, but never like now. We live in constant threat of war, and the television broadcasts are a direct reflection of that. The tension especially with the increasing nuclear threat and military advances, is growing at an amazing pace. I also find it very interesting that China, Russia, and Japan who formorly opposed our plan, seemingly stubbornly agianst us moving in on Iraq, all suddenly changed their minds in a almost suspicious fashion. In Christ I am not terrified, nor will I be.

11: Now Jesus names; earthquakes, famines, pestilences, and signs in the heavens. Earthquakes obviously have been here for a while, but not nearly as severe. Watch this, severe earthquakes charted from 1940 to 1990, by decades.                
        1940-4
        1950-9
        1960-13
        1970-56
        1980-74
        1990-125
so in 1940 there were 4 severe earthquakes, and in 1990 there suddenly was 125, this does not just happen, unless God said so.
    One third of the worlds population is starving to death, more than ever, even in America. By 2012 if God allows us to continue in the way we are headed, one forth of the population will be dying off from aids. I don't ever remember wheather being as weird as it has been lately, and that's whats being said all across the globe. Satalites all across the world are being set up to beam down with the Gospel of Christ Jesus, increasing constantly and consistantly. We have discovered that, in just one direction, when we beamed the hubble space telescope, there are hundreds of galaxies just like our milky way. That's just focusing on one spot. The odds of this creating itself are absolutly impossible.


This is only a small portion of the amazing evidence God has given to us. To deny God would be stupid, and to say "I will later" is to decieve ourselves. The Bible says,"The day of salvation in today". The devil will tell us to wait untill tommorow, but that is like denying Jesus today, this could be your only chance. If you are one of them that I sent this to, and you want to be forgiven, and you aren't going to fight that pull on your heart, that feeling inside, say this prayer,      God, I come in Jesus name, I ask to change me, to cleanse me, to throw out the old me, and renew me, I know I need you, I beg you God not to send me to hell, I dont want to be tortured forever, I want to live for you, give me another chance God, I will be yours forever in Jesus name, Amen.







   I hope God touched you through His servant with this powerful information. If you just became dedicated to Christ, let me know, I will talk to Jesus about touching your life, as He did mine. If anyone needs prayer requests let me know. If you cant just grab my return e-mail address here it is: bensaved2001@hotmail.com    
   Keep praising God everybody, it strengthens our Spirit. Always preach the Gospel of Christ Jesus. God is love.
                                               Benjamin in His Blood
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:22 PM on December 23, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

what sect of Christianity would yuou say you fall under? non the less it is a silly argument to say that we are int he end times of course we are they began when christ died. But don't tell me you know when he is coming back!


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 03:00 AM on December 25, 2002 | IP
debategirl88

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Exxoss, we know he wasn't "looney" because he did miracles. you see people on the news saying there God or the Son of God, BUT can they do miracles? Can they raise people to life, feed 5,000 people with 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread, or even heal the sick,blind,or lame, with touch or spit? I DON"T THINK SO.


-------
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 12:32 PM on December 25, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Good. Take Waco and David Coresh(sp) he said he was the Christ but then cussed the feds out over the telephone do you really think Jesus would do that. NO. Jesus warns us time and time again to be wary of his coming for he will be like a thief in the night, but also to watch for fals prophets and fals christs or antichrists. just look up "false" in the concordance of the bible.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 5:17 PM on December 25, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

 I am a 18 year old from Grand Rapids, MI. I was born agian since September 2001.  I was immediatly delivered from; premarital sex, marijuana, crack, alcohol, extreme violence, and various other impulsive behaviors. I have been given the "mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:16), and that is how we become "children of God". (John 1:12)   Anyway, I wrote that to tell you what denomination I am,  non-denominational, guided by the Holy Ghost. That is why Christ died, that we would be made whole through Him, forgiven and delivered. (2 Corinthians 5:21)    
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:20 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

 The Bible is about one/third Bible prophesy. Anyone who knows my God knows that He didn't make it that way for no reason, He does things for a purpose. I mean after all, all Jesus' miracles had obvious purpose, to show He was the Son of God, and to heal and set the captives free because He was moved in compassion for them (us). Which, by the way, Jesus can still do healings today. Anyway, I know that no one knows the day or the hour, but our Master gave us specific criteria so that we would be aware. "So you also, when you see these thing happening, know that the Kingdom of God is near." That was what Jesus told us in Luke 21:31.  He doesn't want us to be ignorant, He wants us to be prepared, and to preach the Gospel. He has given us some of this insight, also, so that we are not decieved. For the days we live in are the most difficult days ever, but they will get worse. His love is more than enough to pull us through.
                In Christ, Benjamin
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:39 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

K i can agree with that. But he has been about to come for the past 2000 years so we must be ever watchful unless the master comes while we are asleep.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 7:44 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Yes, your right, we have been anxiously looking forward to His coming for about two-thousand years, rightfully so, for what what a glorious Day it will be for those who trust in Him. However, Bible prophesy makes it clear that a few things had to happen before He would come back.  
 1. Israel had to be established as a nation.  They were scattered for about 1930 years, ever since the "diaspora"(dispersal of the Jews) in 70 A.D., but in May 14, 1948 the Jews gained control of Israel.
 "I will bring back the captives of My people Israel..." -Amos 9:14
  "He will set up a banner for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel..."               -Isaiah  11:12

2. The Jews also had to capture all of Jerusalem. This ocured in the six day war of 1967, although attacked from every direction,  the Jews still managed to gain land on every side. (including all of Jerusalem)  (keep in mind Israel is only the size of New Jersey)

   "I will bring them back, And they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem..."  -Zach. 8:8
    "And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
   -Luke 21:24

3. The land would be a desert, and God said that it would begin to grow fruit and harvest would become plentiful. When the Jews first entered into their land it was literally desolate, however now they grow more fruits and vegtables, per land mass, than ANY nation in the world. God said it!

    "..Israel shall blossom and bud, And fill the face of the world with fruit."  -Isaiah 27:6
    "...And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the the rose."     -Isaiah 35:1


   These things had to come in order for God to fulfill His words, which He always fullfil's. As we study the word of God, and stay in His presence, we learn more about His awesome Love for us.

I could sing of His love forever
I could sing of His love for-ever

...of when His love came down..
                              Benjamin
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:04 PM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

yo Bn you never answered me about your sect or where do you get your info, not that it is untrue, or anything just wondering. You are fine by me until you start telling me to stop  saying God and start saying Yaweh.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 03:27 AM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

sorry i failed to notice your nondenominational status why don't you go to the premarital sex and debate and tell me why it is wrong to have premarital sex. I would love to hear some good answers for a change.


-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 03:30 AM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

   You want some sound advice, stay away from guys for now. I know your 17, and your curiousity towards guys is making you wonder what you should and shouldn't do, but you just have to trust the Lord. I have had sex before, and it takes away your innocence, and is the toughest thing to get over,  it has more pull than any drug, by far. It is beautiful when it is used in the God given bounderies, starting all the way back at Genesis 2:24. Talk to you later, Nova.              Ben
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:18 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Good advice. I don't want to have sex before marriage i just don't think that it is a good idea. It won't lead to a healthy relationship, and i do believe that gen. 2:2 is a really good starting point on why but do ou now some good biblical evidence for it



-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 5:52 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Nova

|       |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Oh and Ben i must be giving off wierd feelings or something, but i am a guy and don't like other guys Havah is my girlfriend and we are deboted top not having sex before marriage. how far is good to go though? Lets go to the other thread so we don't muck this on  up



-------
One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 96 | Posted: 5:55 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Nova,
   I was assuming that you were female, sorry. My advice is still the same, but now the gender references changed. Oh Havah seems like a sweet girl, and I wish the best for you. God bless you.
        Ben
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:15 AM on January 2, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

  Yes, your right, we have been anxiously looking forward to His coming for about two-thousand years, rightfully so, for what what a glorious Day it will be for those who trust in Him. However, Bible prophesy makes it clear that a few things had to happen before He would come back.  
1. Israel had to be established as a nation.  They were scattered for about 1930 years, ever since the "diaspora"(dispersal of the Jews) in 70 A.D., but in May 14, 1948 the Jews gained control of Israel.
"I will bring back the captives of My people Israel..." -Amos 9:14
 "He will set up a banner for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel..."               -Isaiah  11:12

2. The Jews also had to capture all of Jerusalem. This ocured in the six day war of 1967, although attacked from every direction,  the Jews still managed to gain land on every side. (including all of Jerusalem)  (keep in mind Israel is only the size of New Jersey)

  "I will bring them back, And they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem..."  -Zach. 8:8
   "And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
  -Luke 21:24

3. The land would be a desert, and God said that it would begin to grow fruit and harvest would become plentiful. When the Jews first entered into their land it was literally desolate, however now they grow more fruits and vegtables, per land mass, than ANY nation in the world. God said it!

   "..Israel shall blossom and bud, And fill the face of the world with fruit."  -Isaiah 27:6
   "...And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the the rose."     -Isaiah 35:1


  These things had to come in order for God to fulfill His words, which He always fullfil's. As we study the word of God, and stay in His presence, we learn more about His awesome Love for us.

I could sing of His love forever
I could sing of His love for-ever

...of when His love came down..
                             Benjamin
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:41 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

seems quite irrevocable!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:37 PM on January 3, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Prophetic fulfillment, God is awesome!

    Tyre was at it's time a capital of trade. It was a fairly great city, especially in regards to economic activity. Now God spoke to the prophet Ezekiel, and said," Behold, I will bring against Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzer king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses, with chariots, and with horseman, and an army with many people. He will slay with a sword your daughter villages in the fields."
 This was exactly what happened, when Nebuchadnezzer did come down, he slaughtered all the daughter villages (surrounding villages)  first. Then attacked the strongholds and slaughtered the armies. The people in the land grew very weary of Nebuchadnezzer almost immediatly. Now, a little ways out from the land of Tyre there was a island. The people decided that they wanted to get away, so they began to take all their stuff and move it out on the island. God also had Ezekiel write," They will plunder your riches and pillage your merchandise; they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses; they will lay your stones, your timber, and your soil in the midst of the water."  This spoke not of Nebuchadnezzer, but of what would happen to the nation after He had possed it. Now Nebuchadnezzer never went out to the island because he didn't have a navy. Soon enough, Alexander the Great came along to take over the land. He began to fulfill what God had said would happen to Nebuchadnezzer's establishment. He wiped out everyone on land, and sent his navy out to sea. His navy however was not so fortunate, they were slaughtered,and Alexander the Great was mad! He was trying to figure out a way to kill them, and get that land when he came up with it. He decided he would throw all their rocks and ruins from the destroyed city into the water until he made a bridge to the land. He did this for years, getting closer and closer. Soon He was there, and took control, as he tended to do (he was probobly the greatest militery figure ever). Now, within recent years, an informed scholar was trying to figure out where this island was. As the scholar stood on a peninsula, he searched knowing it was around there somewhere. As he watched these fishermen casting net's into the sea, he noticed something. He noticed the terrian along the edge of the peninsula consisted of large rocks and other debrie. So he got some scuba diver's to go check it out, it was in fact built on debrie. This was no peninsula at all, it was the bridge built by Alexander the Great! God's Word's were fulfilled with amazing precision," ...they will lay your stones, your timber, and your soil in the midst of the water...I will make you like the top of a rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets, and you shall never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken it."            

     (Ezekiel 26:7-16)
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:23 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

What about all of the prophecy fulfillments? Biblicists almost always ask this question when their belief in biblical inerrancy is challenged. No doubt those who ask the question sincerely believe that prophecy fulfillment is irrefutable proof that the Bible was divinely inspired, but in reality the question reflects a naive view of the Bible for which no credible evidence exists. The "evidence" most often cited by prophecy-fulfillment proponents will usually fall into two categories: (1) Unverifiable claims by biased biblical writers that certain events fulfilled certain prophecies. (2) "Fulfillments" of prophecies that were probably written after the fact. Anyone can successfully refute prophecy-fulfillment assertions by simply demanding clear evidence when confronted with either category of claims. In other words, if a biblicist cites a New Testament claim that such and such event fulfilled such and such prophecy, simply insist on seeing reliable nonbiblical corroboration that the alleged fulfillment event actually happened. Herod's massacre of the children in Bethlehem would be an example of an uncorroborated event. The massacre allegedly fulfilled an Old Testament prophecy (Matt. 2:18), but no one has ever found an extrabiblical source that corroborates the lone biblical reference to this event. If corroborating evidence of a fulfillment event should exist, then demand evidence that the "prophecy" of this event was undeniably written before the event.

Another--and even more effective-- counterargument to use against those who claim that prophecy fulfillment proves the inspiration of the Bible requires sufficient knowledge of the Bible to show that many Old Testament prophecies obviously failed. Anyone who is willing to put the time into learning just a few of those failures will have no problems rebutting the prophecy-fulfillment claims of any biblicists he/she may encounter. The prophetic tirades of Isaiah (13-23) and Ezekiel (24-32) against the nations surrounding Israel provide a treasure house of unfulfilled prophecies. Ezekiel, for example, prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Egypt and leave it utterly desolate for a period of 40 years, during which no foot of man or beast would pass through it (chapter 20), but history recorded no such desolation of Egypt during or after the reign of Nebuchadnezzar.

Ezekiel also prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Tyre, which would never again be rebuilt (26:7-14, but Nebuchadnezzar's siege of Tyre failed to take the city, and Tyre still exists today. A curious thing about this prophecy against Tyre is that Isaiah also predicted that Tyre would be destroyed, but, whereas Ezekiel predicted that Tyre would be permanently destroyed and "nevermore have any being," Isaiah prophesied that it would be made desolate only for a period of 70 years. A comparison of these two prophecies is an easy way to show the silliness of claiming that prophecy fulfillment proves the inspiration of the Bible.

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:57 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

after reading your post mr guest, i became very interested in what the prophecy of Tyre actually said. i did some research online and found some cool stuff and very cool information. i'm gonna provide a link below of a site that i found very interesting. basically what the author is saying is that Tyre never regained it's former glory or influence that it had prior to Nebuchadnezzer's and Alexander's attacks


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 07:42 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

here is some more cool stuff that i found, mr guest. i hope that you are not offended:

Prophecies Regarding the Jewish Nation
One of the strongest evidences that the Bible is inspired of God is simply the existence of the Jewish nation. They are unique in all of history. What other nation in the history of the world has lost their homeland, been scattered throughout the rest of the world and been persecuted mercilessly, while still maintaining their national identity? No one has ever heard of a German Philistine, a Russian Moabite, or an American Edomite, because these ancient nations have all been absorbed into other cultures. Yet we have all heard of German Jews, Russian Jews, and American Jews. What's the difference between the Jewish nation and these other ancient nations? The answer is simple. God's promises and God's predictions concerning the Jewish nation are the difference. Back in Genesis 12:2-3 and 13:14-15 God promised a man by the name of Abram that He would make a great nation from his descendants, that through him all nations of the earth would be blessed, and that the "promised land" would belong to his descendents forever. Later in history after this nation was in the promised land, God warned them about the dangers of disobedience. They were promised blessings for obedience but predictions of persecution, suffering, and world-wide dispersion were made in the event that this nation turned their backs on God (for instance see Deuteronomy 28:64,66; Jeremiah 24:9; Hosea 9:17). Unfortunately, this is exactly what happened. It happened initially with the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities, and it happened again with the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. In spite of this, however, God had no intentions of disregarding His promises to Abraham. Therefore, He promised that He would not totally destroy this disobedient nation and predicted a future regathering and restoration (see Jeremiah 30:11; Ezekiel 37:21; Isaiah 11:11-12, etc.). Today, contrary to all odds, we see that the nation of Israel once again possesses the "promised land" even though they are currently there in unbelief. Some day, however, they will recognize that the one they crucified nearly 2000 years ago was indeed their promised Messiah and they will turn to Him in repentance and belief (Zechariah 12:10).

Prophesies Regarding other Nations
Tyre and Sidon. In Ezekiel 26, we read of several specific prophetic predictions against the city-state of Tyre. They include:

Nebuchadnezzar will destroy the mainland city (8).
Many nations will come against Tyre (3).
The city will become a bare rock (4)
Fisherman will spread their nets over the site (5).
The debris of the city will be thrown into the water (6).
The city will never be rebuilt (14,21).
As you might expect, each of these predictions was completely fulfilled in history. Interestingly enough, they were not fulfilled at the same time and place. Here's how they were fulfilled. [1]

1. Nebuchadnezzar did indeed destroy the mainland city of Tyre in 573 B.C. after a 13-year siege. However, upon entering the city he found that the majority of the people had fled by ship to the island city of Tyre about 1/2 mile off the coast.

2. History has also proven this prediction to be true. After Nebuchadnezzar's invasion, the island city was destroyed by Alexander the Great in 332 B.C. Towards the end of this attack Alexander assembled a navy from nations he had conquered. He had ships from Sidon, Aradus, Byblus, Rhodes, Cyprus and other nations help him in his campaign against Tyre. Although never recovering fully from this blow, the city recovered somewhat only to be destroyed again by Antigonus in 314 B.C. During the Middle Ages the city was captured by the Moslems. During the Crusades it was taken by the Crusaders only to be recaptured by the Moslems. At this point it was turned to ruins and remains so to this day. So there have indeed been many nations come against Tyre.

3. This prediction was fulfilled when Alexander started his campaign against the island fortress. Since he had no navy at first, he began to construct a causeway from the mainland to the island using the debris from the mainland city. This operation also fulfilled the fifth prophecy which predicted that the debris of the city would be thrown into the water.

4. The fulfillment of this prediction can be observed today. The only thing left on the cite of the original city is a small fishing village. Even today fisherman can be seen drying their nets upon the rocks.

5. This was fulfilled precisely as Alexander's engineers used the stones, timber and other debris from the mainland city to construct the ramp to the island.

6. This prophecy has also been fulfilled. Although ancient Sidon still exists, and although a modern city of Tyre exists a few miles down the coast, the ancient city has never been rebuilt after her complete destruction by the Moslems in A.D. 1291.

In contrast to her sister-city, Ezekiel does not predict destruction for the city-state of Sidon. He does, however, predict pestilence, much bloodshed, and the sword on every side (Ezekiel 28:22-23). History has certainly verified this prediction. Although the city of Sidon still stands today, it has had one of the bloodiest histories of any city in history. For instance in 351 B.C. the Sidonians rebelled against their Persian monarch. Unfortunately, their own king, in order to save his own life, betrayed them to the Persian king. As a result 40,000 Sidonians shut themselves up in their own homes, set fire to them, and died in the flames. In the days of the Crusades Sidon was captured three times by the Crusaders only to be recaptured three times by the Moslems. In modern times it has been the scene of conflicts between the Druses and the Turks and the French and the Turks. "Although Sidon has continued to exist as a city down even into the present, she has suffered more warfare and bloodshed than almost any other city in history." [2]

Thus, we see that the Bible is proven to be entirely accurate. Tyre has been destroyed permanently while Sidon has been destroyed and rebuilt several times and still exists today.

Edom/Petra. The Edomites were the descendents of Esau and their capital was the rock fortress of Petra. Six different Old Testament prophets make specific prophetic predictions about the fate of ancient Edom. One apologist has listed 9 of these specific predictions and has proceeded to detail their fulfillment in history. [3] The nine specific predictions are:

Edom will become a desolation (Isaiah 34:13)
It will never be populated again (Jeremiah 49:18)
It will be conquered by heathen nations (Jeremiah 49:14-15)
It will be conquered by Israel (Ezekiel 25:14)
It will have a bloody history (Ezekiel 35:5-6; Isaiah 34:6-7)
Edom will be made desolate as far as the city of Teman (Ezekiel 25:13)
Wild animals will inhabit the area (Isaiah 34:13-15)
Trade in the area will cease (Isaiah 34:10)
Spectators will be astonished (Jeremiah 49:17)
Again these prophesies were fulfilled over a long period of time. They were fulfilled as follows:

1. The first prophecy has clearly been fulfilled as Edom is nothing more than a desolate wilderness today.

2. The second has clearly been fulfilled as well. 3. The third prediction was fulfilled in the sixth century A.D. when the area was conquered by the Moslems.

4. The fourth prediction undoubtedly seemed far-fetched at the time because the Jews were still in the midst of the Babylonian captivity. However, approximately 4 centuries later (after the Jews gained a measure of independence in the Maccabean wars) thousands of Edomites were slain and forced to submit to Jewish circumcision after successful invasions led by Judas Maccabeus and John Hyrcanus.

5. The fifth prediction has been thoroughly fulfilled. Edom was invaded and plundered by Assyria, by Babylon, by the Nabataeans who migrated into Edom between the sixth and fourth Centuries B.C. [4], and finally by the Jews during the Maccabean wars.

6. This prediction has been remarkably fulfilled as Teman (called Maan today) is the only city of ancient Edom that is not deserted. It is located on the eastern border of the ancient nation.

7. The seventh prediction has been witnessed in modern times by travelers visiting the ancient ruins of Petra. Eagles, owls, serpents, scorpions, and other wild animals are abundant among its ruins.

8. In ancient days Edom was a crossroads of the trade routes. Great caravans used to pass through her lands. Today, however, only a few travelers seeking to view the ruins of ancient Petra are found in her vicinity.

9. "Astonishment" is an apt word to describe the feelings of those visiting Petra today. After being lost for over 1000 years it was rediscovered in 1812. Today one can see the remains of the many buildings carved out of the reddish colored mountain. One can also witness that the city was practically impregnable with only one narrow canyon-like entrance which could easily be defended by only a small band of men. Today this once-great fortress is full of rubble, debris and scorpions! One traveler stated:

Petra is a place which astonishes and baffles, but above all fascinates. Your first visit is an event in your life. Elemental feelings stir; again you know what awe is and humility. You have a sense of God's work through man and without man. If you have never experienced the sensation before, here at last you come under the spell of mystery. The place seems so remote, so unrelated to its surroundings...so undiscovered and so undiscoverable. What other city has been lost for a thousand years and at last, when stumbled upon by accident, has had still so much of its glory left with which to astonish the amazed traveler. [5]
The odds of all these predictions being fulfilled by blind chance are astronomical. Yet they were all fulfilled precisely as the Bible predicted. It is interesting to note that Bible critics used to criticize the Biblical references to Edom because she had been completely forgotten in secular history. However in the 19th Century, references to the Edomites were found in both Assyrian and Egyptian records. In addition, the ancient capitol of Petra was stumbled onto by Swiss traveler J. L. Burckhardt. Now in the 20th Century we recognize not only the existence of ancient Edom but also the incredible accuracy of the Biblical prophecy concerning her. Once again the Bible is proven right, and the critics are proven wrong!

These are just two of many examples that could be included under this section. Space prohibits us from examining fulfilled prophesies regarding other ancient nations. For those interested, however, it would be a fascinating study to examine the fulfilled prophesies regarding the nations/cities of Samaria, Nineveh, Babylon, Gaza-Ashkelon, and several others. [6]

Prophesies Regarding World History
Many examples could also be given under this heading. However, we will use only two examples.

Daniel's sequence of empires. A remarkably accurate view of world history is recorded in the book of Daniel in the form of two dreams: Nebuchadnezzar's in Daniel 2 and Daniel's in Daniel 7. Both dreams predict the future history of the world as it will be influenced by four successive empires. These dreams have been remarkably fulfilled by the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian, and Roman empires. Furthermore, more specific aspects of Daniel's prophesies, as found throughout the book of Daniel, have been specifically fulfilled in these empires. For instance, Daniel 11 with its detailed accounts of the wars between "the kings of the North" and "the kings of the South" (fulfilled in the struggles between the Ptolemies and the Seleucids) has baffled the critics. It had to be written after the fact, they argue, ignoring all internal and external evidences for the traditional date of Daniel (i.e. around 530 B.C.). [7]

Isaiah's Prophecy of Cyrus. One of the most fascinating of the Bible's many fulfilled prophesies is Isaiah's prophesy naming Cyrus as the king who will permit the temple and the city of Jerusalem to be rebuilt (Isaiah 44:28 and 45:1). At the time of Isaiah's prediction (approximately 700 B.C.) the city and the temple didn't need to be rebuilt because they were still standing (they were destroyed in 586 B.C by the Babylonians)! However, in approximately 539 B.C. a Persian king by the name of Cyrus conquered Babylon and decreed that the Jews could return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. So, in essence, Isaiah predicted that a man named Cyrus, to be born over a hundred years later, would issue the command to rebuild the temple which would not be destroyed until over a hundred years later! Once again the odds of this prediction coming true by random chance are too astronomical to even consider.



-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 07:46 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

my favorites out of all of these are the prophecies that very very very accurately predict the future of the Jewish nation and Daniel's sequence of empires. it is quite amazing to read what Daniel said, just because it ended up being so incredibily accurate. many atheists are in denial and try to make excuses about Daniel's prophesy. its funny how they insist that it was written after the fact, despite all of the evidence pointing to it being written in 530 BC


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 07:50 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

oooops, i'm very sorry. on my very first post, i forgot to paste the link that i found my source at the bottom of the page. i apologize:

http://answering-islam.org/BibleCom/ez27.html


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 07:52 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"Tyre never regained its former glory or influence."

That is a far cry from never again being rebuilt as prophecied in Ezekiel.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:09 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

do you have an answer to all of the other major prophesies that have come true? or are you just going to continually attack one single prophesy over and over?


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 09:06 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Ezekiel predicted a permanent destruction of Tyre that would last forever, but Isaiah predicted just a temporary destruction that would last only 70 years or the estimated lifetime of one king. The fact is that neither prophecy was ever fulfilled. Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Tyre forever, and it was never made desolate for a period of 70 years. Even when Alexander the Great succeeded in his campaign against Tyre in 332 B. C., the city was soon rebuilt (Wallace B. Fleming, The History of Tyre, Columbia University Press, p. 64) and has existed ever since.  But regardless of whether this prophecy failed or succeeded, it was impossible for both Isaiah's and Ezekiel's prophecies against Tyre to succeed. At least one of them had to fail, and so proponents of biblical prophecy fulfillment have a problem that they must explain. If the Bible was really inspired by an omniscient, omnipotent deity, why would he have directed one prophet to predict a temporary destruction of Tyre and then later direct another prophet to predict that Tyre would be destroyed forever and never be rebuilt?

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:07 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

In Joshua 16:10; 17:12-13; Judges 1:1-5; 1:9; 1:21; 1:27-36; 3:1-6 and many other places, references are made to the people that the Israelites could not drive out of the land, and many of these were specific references to people from the "seven nations greater and mightier than you" that Yahweh promised to drive out without fail. But he didn't, and so the inerrancy champions have some serious explaining to do. If "Yahweh gave to Israel all the land of which He had sworn to give to their fathers" (Joshua 21:43-45) and if "they took possession of it (the land) and dwelt in it" (Ibid.) and if Yahweh "gave them rest all around, according to ALL that He had sworn to their fathers" (Ibid.) and if "not a man stood of all their enemies" (Ibid.) and if "Yahweh delivered all their enemies into their hand" (Ibid.) and if "not a word failed of any thing which Yahweh had spoken to the house of Israel" (Ibid.) and if "ALL CAME TO PASS" (Ibid.), HOW could it have been that some of the enemies of Israel were still in the land during the time of the book of Judges and HOW could it have been that some of the people of the "seven nations greater and mightier" than the Israelites ARE still dwelling with them "to this day"?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:20 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

The writer(s) of 1 and 2 Kings considered the promise of an everlasting kingdom made to David to be both literal and unconditional, because no matter how evil David's successors were, the prophets made it clear that the kingdom had to be and would be preserved "for David's sake." As long as Judah managed to survive the threats to its sovereignty, its military successes could be regarded as fulfillments of Yahweh's promise to David, but after Judah ceased to exist as a sovereign kingdom the prophets and writers of the Old Testament were caught with a lot of theological egg on their faces. Yahwists ever since have tried to salvage something from the mess they were left with by insisting that the promise made to David concerned a spiritual kingdom and that Jesus has provided the fulfillment of that promise. Such a view has two major weaknesses:

ONE: It completely disregards all of the passages that show that the Old Testament writers and prophets thought that the promise of an everlasting kingdom referred to the literal throne of David.
TWO: It offers no explanation for the vacancy of David's throne from the time of the captivity until the establishment of Jesus's kingdom. Jeremiah said that David "shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel," yet there were 600 years between Zedekiah and Jesus when David did in fact "lack a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel."

The point is that unconditional prophecies were often spoken in Old Testament times and that the eternal establishment of David's kingdom was one of those unconditional promises, just as the land promise to the seed of Abraham was unconditional. Any figurative application of the obviously literal promise to establish David's throne forever or attempts to make it conditional on the conduct of his descendant kings are nothing but dodges, just as any attempt to make the land promise conditional on the good behavior of the Israelites is only a desperate way of avoiding the embarrassment of having to admit that the prophets of old were often wrong in their predictions.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:29 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Neither foot of man shall pass through it nor foot of beast pass through it, and it shall be uninhabited forty years. I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate; and among the cities that are laid waste, her cities shall be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them through the countries" (Ezekiel 29:8-14).

Talk about extravagant rhetoric, we certainly have it in this passage. No such desolation has ever happened to Egypt; there never has been a time in recorded history when Egypt was not inhabited by man or beast for forty years, when its cities were laid waste and desolate, when its people were all dispersed to foreign lands, etc. Bible defenders, of course, resort quickly to figurative and future applications, but their strategy just won't work. Future fulfillments are excluded by patently clear references that Ezekiel made to contemporary characters who were to figure in the fulfillment: "Son of man, set your face against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him" (29:2). Although Egypt still survives as a nation, its rule by pharaohs ended long ago. Furthermore, Ezekiel identified Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, as the instrument Yahweh would use to bring about Egypt's desolation: "Therefore thus says Yahweh God: `Surely I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage, and that will be the wages for his army'" (29:19). Clearly, then, Ezekiel had in mind a contemporary fulfillment of this prediction. As for spiritual or figurative explanations of the prophecy, just what events in Egyptian history were so catastrophic in the days of Nebuchadnezzar and the pharaohs that they could justifiably be considered a figurative desolation of forty years? Unless bibliolaters can identify such a catastrophe, their figurative interpretations must be regarded as just more attempts to sweep aside another embarrassing prophecy failure.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:38 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

ooo, I saw someone mention Alexander The Great...my favorite homo (well, up there with Lorca, Dali, Lawrence of Arabia, Whitman, that dude who broke the German code, and so many many more). no wonder people suspect us of trying to take over the world! we are awesome! (kidding...)


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:51 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

guest, you keep ignoring the two biggies: daniel's incredibly accurate prophesy of future empires and the prophesy of the future of the Jewish people. both of these have been found to be very accurate. i've asked you twice to mention them, but you almost seem scared to discuss them.


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 3:48 PM on January 16, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

falling, you keep igonoring the unfulfilled prophecies I've mentioned, you seem almost scared to discuss THEM.  You fundies always say the bible is 100% accurate on prophesy, I post a few that were wrong (there are plenty more) but you just ignore them.  Why is that?  Your "two biggies" are only the biggies to you.  If the ones I'v posted are wrong, then the concept of 100% accuracy is wrong.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:42 PM on January 16, 2003 | IP
dsadevil

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

All the stuff that actually happened to Tyre also happened to uncountable other cities in the region (Antioch, Petra etc.). History just went that way, Tyre isn't unique in being continually captured.

Jews didn't maintain there identity b/c of some special God-given ability, they maintained it b/c our identity was based off something outside our place of origin, our religion. It isn't necessarily that our religion is right that gives the ability, it is the fact we had a secondary identity to hold to after we lost our state. The same thing applies to any religion, you do hear about American Hindus, and Russian Muslims, and an excellent parallel example would by the Chinese Tibetans, who don't have a state but still maintain a nat'l identity.

Moreover, Jewish sucess in Israel (in making the desert bloom) is due to old-fashioned irrigation techniques, not some miracle. These techniques have been known since before abrahams time. Everything that has happened in Israel can be attributed to solely human means.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:49 PM on January 16, 2003 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

|     |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

no, you're wrong. it was God. look, dsadevil, the Bible says so. it is the Word of God. when it's right, it's right. when it seems wrong, that's just cause you're interpreting it wrong. i personally peruse the Bible for the right horses to bet on at Saratoga Springs. there is a special code. if you take the first 3 pages of Deuteronomy, and multiply their number of words by the temperature of the day during the race, and then divide that by pie, and then tranfer the first four digits of that number by morse code into letters, it always spells the name of the winning horse. God never stops helping.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 4:58 PM on January 16, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

guest, everytime you attack something that i say, you accuse me of being a "fundie". i have told you possibly ten million times that i am not a fundamentalist at all. i do not believe that every word in the bible is accurate. there is room for human error. but there are many things in it that are very true also. so why dont you just grow up and stop judging and accusing people of being something that they are not.


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 5:31 PM on January 16, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I am the guest that defends Christ to the fullest, aka Benjamin ...with that said...

  God's Word is inerrent, He never has made a single mistake, ever. He never has, and He never will.
  -FALLING,
         Your right, those prophetic fulfillments are absolutely amazing and God inspired. It was definatly wise to go check it out for yourself and validate my words, which proved to be valid. You don't need to argue with sceptics (i know you already know this), note Jesus reaction to them.  If we lay out the facts of the Gospel and of Christ, they will be convicted if the Holy Ghost is involved everytime. The Holy Ghost is involved everytime the message of the Cross is proclaimed.
   If any one has personal questions for me, and wants answers not dispute, hit me up at  bensaved2001@hotmail.com  
                   In Christ, Benjamin
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:27 PM on January 22, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I know of many more facinating prophetic fulfillments, and will post some soon...God willing
                    Benjamin
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:37 PM on January 22, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

booorrriiinnnggg
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:20 PM on January 22, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Prophecy fulfillment is a popular argument that fundamentalists rely on in trying to prove the divine inspiration of the Bible. They claim that the Bible is filled with recorded events that prophets foretold years and even centuries before they happened. They argue that there is no way to explain how these predictions could have been so accurately made except to conclude that the Holy Spirit enabled the prophets who uttered them to see into the future. In prophecy fulfillment, then, they see evidence of God's direct involvement in the writing of the Bible.

A very simple flaw in the prophecy-fulfillment argument is that foreseeing the future doesn't necessarily prove divine guidance. Psychics have existed in every generation, and some of them have demonstrated amazing abilities to predict future events. Their "powers," although mystifying to those who witness them, are not usually considered divine in origin. If, then, Old Testament prophets did on occasions foresee the future (a questionable premise at best), perhaps they were merely the Nostradamuses and Edgar Cayces of their day. Why would it necessarily follow that they were divinely inspired? Even the Bible recognizes the possibility that uninspired prophets can sometimes accurately predict the future:

"If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, `Let us go after other gods'--which you have not known--`and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for Yahweh your God is testing you to know whether you love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul" (Deut. 13:1-3, NKJV with Yahweh substituted for "the LORD").

By the Bible's own testimony, then, natural psychic ability could offer a perfectly sensible explanation for any example of prophecy that fundamentalists might cite in support of the inerrancy doctrine, but an unbiased contextual examination of the alleged prophecy will very likely uncover an even more rational explanation. Usually, Bible "prophecies" turn out to be prophecies only because imaginative Bible writers arbitrarily declared them to be prophecies. The same can be said of their alleged fulfillments: the fulfillments are fulfillments only because obviously biased New Testament writers arbitrarily declared them to be fulfillments.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:48 AM on January 24, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Yes, the devil wants to do his best to imitate the things of God, in fact it was the devil's wanting to be a god himself that got him kicked out of the Kingdom. The Power of God will not allow unrighteousness, and Jesus will come soon, to judge the world.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:21 PM on February 4, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Prophesy is always extremely accurate, in fact completely accurate. God has never made a mistake, He is perfect in nature. God is good, you should get to know Him!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:22 PM on February 4, 2003 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.