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     Was Jesus a Liberal?

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debategirl88

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Hey! I am Conservative Christian but not a jerk!!


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 10:37 PM on January 29, 2003 | IP
The_Colonel

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OK, I've watched this long enough--I'll bite.

First of all, it is a misguided exercise to retroactively apply contemporary social and political mores to a person who lived 2000 year ago.  Jesus would have supported welfare? Please!  Let's at least ask the question correctly: Would Jesus have supported the idea of taking what belongs to some and giving it to others?

I believe the answer is "yes."

Consider the parable of the talents: One guy gets $5, one gets $10, and one gets $20 (so much for Equal Opportunity).  In Capitalistic fashion, the guy with $20 turns his into $40; the guy with $10 makes $20, and the guy with $5 doesn't do squat.  

So what's Jesus' response?  Did he whine about an unfair social system that doles out investment capital unequally?  Did he rebuke the rich guys for being rich and take away their profit?  No!  He says to the "poor" guy: "you lazy bum, you should be ashamed.  Your 5 now goes to the rich guy and you can swim in pig slime for a while" (actually, that's another parable).

Where is Jesus' liberal compassion here?

Someone once said that the worst thing you can do for someone is something they could do, and should do, for themselves.  Liberals have a bad habit of doing stuff for others that they should do for themselves--not because it does any long-term good for that person, but because it makes the liberal feel good.  The liberal has lost the concept that, although unpleasant, pain is the greatest teacher.  

Most of today's liberal government programs are geared towards one thing: reducing pain.  But without pain lessons are not learned and those who are "protected" from it remain in a constant state of childhood, incapable of mustering the internal strength to improve themselves and always expecting someone to come rescue them.

Do I believe in compassion and helping the less fortunate.  Absolutely.  But my view is more long-term and for the good of the person in need and also for society.  Always remember the main difference between Liberal and Conservative compassion: Liberal compassion says "what's yours is mine" while Conservative compassion says "what's mine is yours."




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The Colonel
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 4:26 PM on February 6, 2003 | IP
gunmyths

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This forum will be closing and all posts will be deleted, you might want to come to the new forum at http://www.youdebate.com/vBulletin/
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 1:31 PM on February 7, 2003 | IP
jito

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One needs to ask "what is liberal - what is conservative".  What was liberal in 1920 certainly is not now.  How liberal or conservative something is is measured against the moderates, the norms of the environment.  Within the ancient Jewish community where Jesus lived, and under the the Roman rule, Jesus was not only liberal, he was down right radical.

>>And if thy right eye offend; thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.  (Matthew 5:29-30)<<

Point is get rid of what tempts you to sin.  Hell here is Gehena - it meant destruction.

(Edited by jito 2/17/2004 at 5:43 PM).


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- Leslie
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 5:42 PM on February 17, 2004 | IP
lollyman

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Of course Christ was a liberal---one only has to look at the commandments he gave his followers---love your enemy---do not resist evil---refuse to see sin in anyone but yourself--turn the other cheek--treat everyone as you would like to be treated!!
The fact that the vast majority of Christs Followers refuse to obey these commandments--doesn't alter the substance of those commandments!!


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Lollyman
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 05:02 AM on December 8, 2004 | IP
Sol

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I understand that what's considered liberal and conservative change with time, but i'm comparing this with the modern beliefs of liberals and conservatives.

Do not resist evil, lollyman?  DO NOT RESIST EVIL?!  That's the polar opposite of what Jesus taught.

Besides that, the other things like 'treat others as you would like to be treated' are hardly exclusive to liberals, and 'love your enemy' is exactly what the liberals don't do.  If someone disagrees with a liberal, the liberal starts going 'oh you're intollerant of my beliefs, you hate such and such'  whereas the christian thing to do is help your enemies see the error of their ways to help them.

At any rate,  I don't see much of your 'liberalism' in what Christ did.

Compassion is not exclusive to liberals.  The difference is primarily that the liberal brand of compassion involves solving someone's entire problem for them, removing any work and any suffering from the process, and on the surface, that looks good.

The conservative brand of compassion is more along the lines of helping someone to get on their feet, and doing for them what they cannot do for themselves, and then trusting them to do what they need to do for themselves afterward.  It requires a lot of work on the part of the person being helped, and they will likely go through some hardship before the process ends.  On the surface this looks cold and uncaring...

BUT...

In reality the liberal system is futile.  The people being 'helped' don't need to do anything difficult in the process, and as a result learn nothing from it.  The conservative method can be difficult, but it ultimately teaches people not to repeat their mistakes, and as a result they are better, happier people.

The latter is the method that Christ used.  He helped people do things they could never do on their own, he taught people things they didn't know, and then he let them do the rest.

Could the blind man have healed himself?  Nope.  Could the adulteress have gotten out of the stoning situation without help?  I doubt it.  Coud the dead have raised themselves?  Of course not.

He helped people who had no hope without him, which is good.

What he didn't do was solve every problem everyone had that they should work on for themselves, while a liberal would.

He could have created a mansion with endless food and entertainment for every person on earth, but why didn't he?  Because then no one would ever bother to earn anything for themself or work for anything, and then they would learn nothing.  This is very similar to the conservative beliefs.

Another thing, there's a difference between welfare and charity donations.  The welfare system has several gaping flaws, and so not liking it does not mean that you are opposed to helping the poor, as the liberals might say.

Giving time and money to charities to help people who need it is an honorable and noble thing to do.  I respect people who do it, and I do it myself.

So, just because Jesus taught to help the poor does not make what he teaches coincide with liberal beliefs.
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 09:03 AM on January 8, 2005 | IP
Blasphemy

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Jesus was not a liberal. He would best be decribed a an Ultra conservative Fundamentalist. He was apparently also illiterate, because he never wrote anything down. Of course, most people were illiterate at that time. He walked around like many of the other "messiahs" during that time preaching hellfire and brimstone. He did this for what the bible (if it can even be trusted) for 3 1/2 years, and then, like many other "messiahs" of that time, spoke a little too freely, and was charged with sedition. That's why he (if he did exist) was crucified. Although the bible likes to make him out as holy and all, if you read the things he supposedly said, it's pretty clear why he got what he did. In communist countries like North Korea, he would probably have received a similar fate.


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Blasphemy-->"JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH!"
Don't make me sic my god on you!
There is no hell. There is only France
-Frank Zappa
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 11:04 AM on January 15, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Now that's funny.  I thought the bible was very clear on why he got what he did.  Didn't know there was any question about it.  All of Christianity is based upon it.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:26 PM on January 15, 2006 | IP
    
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