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     Columbine, was it Neglect?
       who bears the blame? the school? the parents? who?

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Commander_SR

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I've have resently read a bunch of articles about the columbine massacre and the most of them if not all of them hangs out these 2 kids as the worst forms of psycho's ever?.... what strike me is that all the conclusions made (that i have read so far) all point out the blame towards the school the kids parents N.R.A. and so on even michael moore miss the point completely i have read the F.B.I. documents and various other documents about these 2 kids eric harris and dylan klebold and the things I can conclude is that these 2 youngsters are a product of there environment and where subjects to bullies and negligence from parents, teachers, and the public system if these 2 kids had recieved proper adult attention and supervision they surely would not have been involved in this tradegy and columbine would not be known trough out the world.

also they way things are done in the U.S. needs to be changed the system surely dosent work try looking around the world scandinavia for instance they sure has a system that works no massacres there!


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Posts: 3 | Posted: 10:39 PM on October 7, 2004 | IP
Carns

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sure environment has something to do with how we turn out, but it does not and can not turn people in to killers on any scale... there are lots of people who have been through that situation, and much worse, and  have never done anything even close to break the law. if these kids were alive, no doubt that the defence for them would make your environment case, and that they are victims too and boo freakin' hoo because they've got some social problems... i know people who's bullying impacts from school can still make them cry just thinking about it, but they have never broke the law because of it... we must not allow ourselves to make excuses for people. who's responsible for columbine? the kids who decided to take vengeance on their own behalf. nobody else.

why do people have a bleeding heart for these killers? i mean, i wish this never happened too, but they were the ONLY ones who could have stopped this from happening. their parents, teachers, the NRA etc... they could have done everything right and still this could have happened.. we can sit around all day and hypothesize "what if" statements, but the fact remains, they are killers, nobody else pulled the triggers.


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Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:10 PM on May 5, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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Its reasonably obvious that from your statement that your not really in any position to comment on this. if you ever see bowling for columbine, the only person who gets it right is the southpark creater (can't remember his name tbh). I'm sorry but people are not just born killers, a large majority of murderers are murderer because of there environment. Everyone has the ability to kill, but your personality, morals and desire to kill all come from the environment you live in. And if that is of degridation and bullying where a weapon such as a gun is easily available, then that is going to have serious effects on you. With enougth degredation and bulling many people will be drawn to suicide, but they may also find them selves thinking well if I'm going to kill myself I may as well take the ones who caused me to be like this with me. People arn't born killers they are turned killers.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 09:05 AM on May 6, 2005 | IP
Carns

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i didn't say they were born killers, i just dont like using environment as an excuse of sorts... killers aren't born, but any situation of any serious affect on a person can either make them better or worse, these kids let it make them worse. they chose to become killers.
i dont think they would have become killers outside of this situation perhaps, but that is not to say that the situation is to blame, for they still chose to be killers, and could have become better through the situation.



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Posts: 95 | Posted: 5:18 PM on May 6, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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Its clear that you havn't really suffered any bullying. Yes they chose to become killers, but the environment influenced there choice and how they would have been thinking. But we will nether know what was happening in thier minds.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 8:09 PM on May 6, 2005 | IP
Carns

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like ive said before, influence is the hands of the influenced. they allowed it to influence them to this extent. like i said, i know people who were bullied severely, to the point that it still draws tears to discuss it in their late 40's, but they became better for it, they didn't kill anybody, and the severe bullying influenced them for the positive, because they do everything they can to discourage harassment of any kind among people they know.
people ALWAYS have a choice. hard situations can make you snap or make you stronger, i know people who have gone both ways, so while of course bullying is not a good thing, good can come of it, and its in the bullied's court to decide if he is a man or a mouse.



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Posts: 95 | Posted: 8:19 PM on May 6, 2005 | IP
K8

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They certainly did choose to become killers, and i believe that their environment was the cause. But i still don't think you can blame everyone AROUND them for their actions - ultimately, they had a choice, and they chose wrong.

Of course, i'm sure this is another of those situations where the school could have been more observant, parents should have contacted the school, the other students should have spoken up, etc. - but, ultimately, the guys made a choice to kill, and they did.

BUT i do think that the US gun laws are partly to blame - i will never understand how a country can look at such a tragedy and WONDER why it happened...HELLO?! Their policy basically screams "GUNS FOR ALL"!!! It's the most irresponsible, outdated, and idiotic law i have ever come across.
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 9:52 PM on May 6, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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Carns correct me if I'm wrong but aren't canadian gun laws similair to american but you have none of the problems? Its not just the law its the attitude to guns in general.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 08:35 AM on May 7, 2005 | IP
Carns

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no i think they are similar, but ive never seen a gun in my life, the only problem up here is this gun registry thing, pretty much the only people with guns use them for hunting.. i dont know about a single person who has one, and never heard of somebody getting a gun for protection... you'd wonder what the heck they're scared  of...

i think its sort of a exponential thing.. like if you live in a crime-ridden city, you'd feel unsafe and perhaps justify having a gun for protection, where i live,  getting a gun would make you feel like the city criminal (local population ~500k) its not a necessary thing here for the average person.



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Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:14 PM on May 7, 2005 | IP
RoyLennigan

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they had a certain psychological pathology that caused them to slip into the psychosis that made them do this.  its a strange process, unfamiliar to many people.  the reason is sort of an 'all of the above.'  the parents methods of raising them, the people they were around, the availability of the weapons, etc.

and to peter87, i would say marilyn manson hit the nail on the head with what he said in that movie as well.
 


Posts: 152 | Posted: 4:02 PM on September 17, 2005 | IP
    
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