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Is there a need for Stronger Federal Hate Crime Laws ? 

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/hate_crime.HTM

(Edited by %1034118624%.)
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 4:09 PM on May 1, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Yes.  Hate crimes are pure evil, and are basically saying 'you can hate people to death and you get punished the same as a normal guy'
Thats not right.  Kill the killers!


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
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-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:38 AM on September 25, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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so basically....people should be punished for what they think?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 3:22 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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If what they think is bad and carried out in a bad way, yes.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:07 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Oh goodie. Have you heard of the 1st amendment, or should I read it to you?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 5:25 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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i know it, free speech.  However, it is not free speach to kill someone because you think something bad of them.thats mureder.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:24 AM on September 26, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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you're absolutely right. That is why we have murder statutes. But "Hate Crimes Legislation" imposes additional penalties on the criminal due to what he THINKS, thus making it into a thought crime. He should be charged with murder, and punished accordingly.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 3:57 PM on September 26, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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They should be treated as any other murderer.  And "Kill the Killers"?  Come on....how are you any different from them they kill because of hate, and apparently you are saying the same thing.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 4:33 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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If a bunch of black guys killed a white guy in LA it would be murder,  but if a bunch of white guys killed a black guy in LA, is a murder and a hate crime, there is something wrong with this.


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No time for mediocrity.

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Posts: 293 | Posted: 7:48 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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i hear so much about "modern" society and how the 21st century is so civilized, but let me get this straight....we should "kill the killers."  that sounds a little like "an eye for an eye."  Now that quote comes from the Code of Hammurabi which was conceived somewhere the 3rd or 4th century b.c.  Wow!  We sure have come a long way over the past 24 centuries!


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Posts: 134 | Posted: 11:03 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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But hate crimes are crimes on what you think is right.  So without that extra punishment, people would make a society were if you kill for what you think is right, you are judged like everyone else, so you dont get in that much trouble.  Basically, a chain murder of KKK's can happen, and all blacks in america could die, or all whites, or chinese.  All because of the simple reason that they will get in as much trouble as killing a person for other reasons than hate.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 7:56 PM on October 16, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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"don't get in that much trouble"!!!

last time i checked murder was quite a bit of trouble, hate crime or not.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 03:15 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
aasha_

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Quote from dsadevil at 3:22 PM on September 25, 2002 :
so basically....people should be punished for what they think?

hate crime legistlation doesn't  punish people for what they think....
but rather it punishes them for what they do in accordance to what they think..

Just like there is a difference in Pre-meditated murder and a crime of passion...  there is a difference between crime and hate crime...

For example:

we aren't going after Osama bin ladden because he hates us... we are going after Bin Laden because killed thousands of people in an act of terror... because he hates us....

It's not the hatred that we are against... it's the terror.... that the hate crime produces....

911 was a hate crime....


It's funny that "majorities"
only think of something as terror... when it's act commited in hatred against them..




A Hate crime is a hate crime because it produces some level of terror...

after 911 you should all have a good understanding of what terror is because it's the one instance that you were on the recieving end of it for a change...
And it sure is devastating isn't it....





(Edited by aasha_ 1/21/2003 at 3:48 PM).
 


Posts: 29 | Posted: 3:42 PM on January 21, 2003 | IP
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hey, this is what i think....

Honestly, the innocent suffer more than the guilty. Take for instance that 49 year old (if i am correct) male was walking home when a group of KKK members chained him to the back of a truck and dragged him for 30 miles (once again if i am correct) until his limbs ripped off and he died. If that isn't gut wrenching hate, what is?

Hate isn't just born in a person, it's taught to them. The best to dissolve hate is to not teach or pass it on. It's starts with humans people!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:16 PM on January 21, 2003 | IP
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I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think about this topic !
But can anyody tell me:
is it a more severe crime if somebody kills a homosexual man on the street he/she doesn't know, only because he/she hates homosexuals than if he/she kills his/her mother because he/she hates her out of more personal reasons ?

and how would a victim feel if he/she is called "a homosexual" or " an african american" in court all the time?
don't we all have the same rights?
aren't we all "human beings" and deserve the same treatment in court?
 
everybody who harms somebody does this out of reasons of hatred or dislike against this person.
sure it makes a difference for our society if people hate a special group of people, but should it also make a difference in court?  

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 07:01 AM on January 23, 2003 | IP
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Quote from Guest at 07:01 AM on January 23, 2003 :
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think about this topic !
But can anyody tell me:
is it a more severe crime if somebody kills a homosexual man on the street he/she doesn't know, only because he/she hates homosexuals than if he/she kills his/her mother because he/she hates her out of more personal reasons ?

The crime is not more severe.. I think you guys are missing the point hate crimes are treated differently because they intended to intimidate or terrorize a group of people...

and how would a victim feel if he/she is called "a homosexual" or " an african american" in court all the time?
don't we all have the same rights?
aren't we all "human beings" and deserve the same treatment in court?
 
everybody who harms somebody does this out of reasons of hatred or dislike against this person.
sure it makes a difference for our society if people hate a special group of people, but should it also make a difference in court?  



Well to answer your question. Just like there is a difference between first and second degree murder... There is a difference between other types of crime and hate crime....

Let's consider the way murder is prosecuted:

There are varying degrees of murder, and different states define these degrees differently.

First Degree Murder is the most serious. Most often, first degree murder is categorized as "deliberate" - that is, the defendant made a clear headed decision to kill the victim - and "premeditated" - the defendant actually thought about the killing before it occurred (the period for this can be very brief).

Some states consider killings committed in specific ways to be first degree murder. Although these vary by state, they can include killing by poison, by lying in wait, and by torture.

First Degree Felony Murder - A killing that happens during the course of the commission of a felony, even if the death is accidental, will be considered "felony murder" by most states. However, if the killing happens during certain felonies, again determined by [the]state, it will be considered "first degree felony murder". The felonies most often included in this category are arson, robbery, burglary, rape, mayhem and kidnapping.

So we make these distinctions in court already between varying degrees of crime....

Hate crimes are different because they are a form of terror.That's why we treat them differently!

If someone kills Mike because they hate him, we don't feel personally threatened.. But if there are a group of people who hate Mike because he is White, and someone from that group kills him because he is White. Then other White people will be afraid because they know that Mike wasn't killed for personal reasons.  Rather, Mike was killed because he had a characteristic that they share in common with him, thus they can also be a target.  That's terror... That causes a community of people who share like characteristics to be afraid that they will be attacked or killed simply for being who or what they are. Hate Crimes are the death of freedom in America.  When you terrorize Communities of people you rob them of their Constitutional Rights.  America is a free country and the key to maintaining that freedom is protecting the rights of all citizens, especially the ones with which we disagree.
Therefore, to preserve our basic liberties we must punnish hate crimes more severely than other crimes, because they are intended to terrorize people and rob not only the victim but a whole community of people of there right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...


 


Posts: 29 | Posted: 09:51 AM on January 23, 2003 | IP
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Very well put aaha, and you're exactly right. The real reason that "hate crimes" or "bias crimes" are so atrocious and should invoke stricter penalties isn't because of the thoughts of the person. That is something that know one can know, much less pass judgment on. No, the real reason is because of the person’s intent.

The reason the person does the crime can be just as important, if not more so, then the crime itself.  Hate crimes are acts that are designed to use the violence against the few to intimidate the many.

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:27 PM on April 6, 2003 | IP
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I think it's strange how when someone says "hate crime" they think immediately of whites doing violence to minorities (particularly blacks). I agree this is a terrible and attrocious thing. But who thinks of places in the world like China, where Christians are killed for their beliefs? Or in south Africa where white people are harrassed and killed by Blacks? Ultimately I think that we're looking at a moot point. If racism is wrong (which I believe it is) then we shouldn't even worry about how to punish these people, we need to fix the problem. The Problem is racism, which stems from arrogance and a lack of individualism.


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"The Way of the Warrior is the two-fold path of pen and sword. Even if a man possess no natural inclination he may be a warrior by sticking assidously to both divisions of the Way."

-Shinmen Musashi
 


Posts: 112 | Posted: 9:34 PM on April 23, 2003 | IP
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Hate crimes ?  A crime is a crime ! Hate Crime
Legislation is another way of shaping and molding the way people think . I am disabled.
If I'm attacked , it is assault .  The MOTIVE for that attack is secondary to the fact . Don't punish the motive, punish the act !


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Posts: 6 | Posted: 08:15 AM on November 23, 2003 | IP
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So some of the arguements here are that if you commit to terroize a certain group, the crime itself has an added penalty?

Well my question to that is that why is race the only group considered when they're terrorized? IF a lawyer is murdered, couldn't the murderer be charged with a hate crime because he was trying to intimidate all other lawyers from that same firm?

Or, what if a man is murdered, in order to intimidate his family members? The list of groups you could add beyond race could be nearly limitless, yet we don't charge people with hate crimes outside of race. Why?
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 7:08 PM on October 5, 2006 | IP
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Hate crime should extend beyond race, it should extend to homophobic killing (as it does in the united kingdom). i think that hate crimes should be classified as a crime against a defined group of people, say...Argentinians or Mormons. then there is less room for doubt!


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Equality! We are one race!
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 4:40 PM on September 2, 2007 | IP
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It may surprise you that what you THINK absolutely matters when committing the crime of murder.  It's called "intent", it is also called "premeditated murder", or "lying in wait".  If you plan [aka think] to murder someone before you do so, that makes it first degree murder.  If you pick up a gun and shoot it, and accidentally kill someone it's manslaughter.  The penalties greatly vary.

Hate crimes are not punishing people for what they think.  It is punishing people for acting on what they think.  You can think about killing people all day long, you can think about whatever you want, but the thoughts that drove you there MATTER.  Period.  That's the law right now.

To extend it to "hate" crimes is absolutely acceptable and necessary in a multicultural society that has a long history of racism and hatred.  The boiled down argument is punishing hate crimes is the first, and very minimal step towards equality.  It is saying acting in a violent way based on hatred towards certain minorities is wrong.  It's a very small step.

I can't agree that we are being punished for what we think.  Not at all.  Hate all you want, just don't fuck with me based on that hate.  
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 05:07 AM on September 4, 2007 | IP
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problem is, hate crimes only serve blacks. If a white beats up a black in a mutual fight, its a hate crime. If situation is reversed, it was only a fight.


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Posts: 6 | Posted: 9:04 PM on September 27, 2007 | IP
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The idea of a "hate crime" is ridiculous. If I'm walking down the street, and someone stabs me to death, it's just a murder. But if a gay man is stabbed to death, his death somehow appears more severe than my murder.

A murder is a murder. It doesn't matter if I kill someone because I hate them, or because I kill for drug money. The point is, I killed someone. My motive for killing is irrelevant; the fact that I committed a crime is the only thing that matters. What I was thinking does not matter.

How does a person's thought process influence the perceived severity of a crime? The idea of "hate crimes" is simply another attempt by the Left to expand government power, strip citizens of their freedom, and give special "rights" to individuals who are perceived as "oppressed".
 


Posts: 12 | Posted: 10:42 PM on October 1, 2007 | IP
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Does the book 1984 come to mind? Kill some one if they think something bad. Remember the thought poice? And if I say the "N" word (I would spell it out but I don't feel like getting kicked off) it only effects you if you lett it, speach can not hirt you unless you let it. A person's feelings are irrelavant, the only thing that matters is pure lodgic, and facts. I do not suport the KKK but I wouldn't drive by shoot them.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 6:21 PM on October 3, 2007 | IP
    
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