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I think some people tend to be so worried about what is politically correct. The Confederate Flag is a flag that represents our heritage, it is a battle flag, and it stands for southern pride as well. If you lived in the south at that time, i think you would have a better understanding to why it is so important. I have many black friends, and I have found few that have actually been offended by it. They know what it means. They too have grown up in the south. And I think its ridiculous when people try to start a huge arguement on how it racist. It is ignorance that is what drives people to hating it. And when people talk about the KKK using as a symbol of hatred, i speak to them too when i talk of ignorance and how people percieve the confederate flag, that or they just no is pisses off blacks, and that is the core goal of the KKK. Plus, the KKK also stands under the American Flag, and I know that isnt a symbol of racism. What groups stand under what official flags, doesnt mean that they are standing under them for the right reasons. Its all ignorance and perception. The Confederate Flag is not racist.[size=13]SECURITY ALERT: nullAnibcinderella@aol.com [center]
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:00 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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well put i agree


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 7:09 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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It's all about shape.  The original Confederate flag was completely square.  Only when the KKK drafted it for their use and representation did they make it rectangular.  So unless you are flying a square flag, technically, you are flying the flag of the Klu Klux Klan.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 8:46 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Hey thistown, I don't know where you got your info but nothing could be further from the truth.  The only square flag in all of the confederacy was the original battle flag which was only used for a short time.  The flag that the KKK carries and that is usually seen is the Confederate Naval Jack.  And flying a Confederate flag has nothing to do with the KKK and to say that is extremely disrespectful.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 11:00 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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to who?



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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:11 AM on October 24, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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to me.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 12:41 AM on October 24, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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And by the way where did you get that the kkk turn the flag into a rectangle?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:46 AM on October 24, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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My history professor.  I won't pretend to know anything about it, but that's we read in the book...with pictures.  He could be wrong but he's not a grad student or anything....phd and all.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 1:02 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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You need to ask your profesor where in the hell he got that, I can promise you he is wrong.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 1:15 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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a flag is a symbol.  different people put different meanings into different symbols.  some will say interpret the flag as a symbol of heritage, and others will see it as a banner of hate.  none of us can really say what the flag stands for because we weren't there when it was originally created it.  yes, we can see how people have come to interpret it, but we can't see into it's origins.  and if you are going to say that the confederate flag stands for hate, then so does the american flag.  true, much of the south wanted slavery, but there were many, many people in the south who didn't.  there are people in america who will scream that the confederate flag is wrong, but who hate islamic people with every bone in there body.  therefore we shouldn't be able to fly the american flag because of hate crimes toward the islamic in america.  a flag is a symbol and people will read into what they want.  


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 9:54 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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it was the american flag that flew over the slave ships that brought them here...and the american flag over the japanese internmint camps....so isnt that a racist flag also? i like my confederate flag and i will fly it to the day i die.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:53 AM on October 25, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Thank you.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 8:06 PM on October 26, 2002 | IP
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tsmith said 93000 free black men fought for the confederacy.  That is just pure fantasy.  Sure thousands of slaves served alongside the confederate army; but, official confederate states policy prevented their enlistment as soldiers until the war's final months, when it was clear to all that the south was going to lose, so they would try anything in a last ditch effort.  Soldiers are citizens who enlist or are conscripted, are required to take an oath of allegiance,and are trained to bear arms.  Slaves were force to serve as laborers, cooks and other non-combat type duties and most ran off the first chance they got to join the Union Army.  A few did serve in the final months, but a check of pension records of confederate forces simply does not show any significant number of black veterans.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 04:31 AM on November 3, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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However they served, there was inbetween 60 to 93 thousands blacks that served in the confederate army.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 10:53 PM on November 3, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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the native americans fought for the confederacy..such as the "five civilized tribes" that where forced into oklahoma a la the trail of tears. and so did blacks but checking pension records would show nothing bc blacks didnt even get pension from ww 1 so why would they get it then from the north or south.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:02 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
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The Confederate Congressional Record shows that the use of African Americans was authorized as cooks, nurses, wagoners, and other like tasks.  Hardly could be considered soldiers since they were slaves and forced to work.

As late as November 8, 1864 the Confederate House of Representatives passed a resolution stating that the "general levy and arming of slaves for duty of soldiers would be inexpedient" and "to employ as a soldier the negro would neither be wise nor advantageous."  Not until March 13, 1865 are Black Confederate soldiers authorized, so the entire period of confederate black recruitment is from March 13, 1865 to April 2, 1865 when the confederate government fleed Richmond, A TOTAL OF 20 DAYS.  If the confederate army already had black soldiers they would not have been debating it or have bothered authorizing the recruitment.

Another basic fact is that the United Confederate Veterans, the United Daughters of the Confederacy,  the Sons of Confederate Veterans, The Museum of the Confederacy, and confederate veteran authors did not mention black confederate soldiers until very recently.  It seem to have only sprung to life since there has been an effort to remove confederate flags from public places in the south.

If there were Black confederate soldiers, where is the record of black confederate prisoners of war, black confederate casualties, or wounded black confederate soldiers?  Where are the war diaries or memoirs of a single black confederate soldier?

The only reason the black confederate soldier myth can now exist is that all the people alive during the civil war are no dead.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:16 AM on November 4, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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There are records of many black soldiers of the confederacy, and how could they leave their own words, 99 percent of them could not read or write.  This debate belongs in the history topic not here, but you are obliously against the Confederate flag also, so debate that.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 3:22 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
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The debate belongs in this thread because this is the thread you brought the myth of 93000 "black free men" fighting for the south up in.  There probably wasn't even 93000 free black men in the entire south.   And even if there were they couldn't recruit and train that many in the 20 days available from when the confederate house of reps gave approval until the government left  the capitol.

If you want to fly the confederate flag thats okay with me.  This is America people can do want ever they want , even stupid things.  If neo-nazis want to fly the swatski, neo-communist want to fly the hammer and sicle, or neo-confederates the stars and bars thats their right to do it.  Just don't try to defend flying the confederate flag with a blatant falsehood about 93000 free black men fighting for the condederacy.  I notice you offer no proof that this happened.  I'm sure you can go to racist organizations like Southern Partisian, etc and quote something at least.  Lets see it.  And before madbilly even says prove they didn't, let me state that is intellectually dishonest to ask someone to prove a negative.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:49 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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oh well...prove they didnt! can you prove that they didnt, seriously i want you to prove that they didnt, but the indians did for shure fight with the confederates and napolean also sold weapons to us for cheap and the battle of gettysburg had french observers and if we would of won that battle instead of a draw the french would have joined with the confederates in order to secure a cotton source bc the british had no intrest since thay annexed india which grows cotton for them we also had mexican people fight with the confederates that came out of texas for battles along the mississippi river going into Louisiana. The confederates where very diverse. more so than the union. If it is true that no blacks fought in the confederacy (which it aint) then the same could be said about the american forces in ww1 and for the most part in ww2 which would make america no different from the confederacy.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 09:53 AM on November 5, 2002 | IP
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What value to our society does honoring the confederacy serve.  The confederacy is a history of committing treason against the United States to preserve slavery.  The historical record clearly shows its main goal was white supremacy.  This is a value we do not need to honor.  The confederacy is a past that needs to go into the dung heap of history; along with similiar forms of oppression such as nazi Germany and communist Soviet Union.

A tradition of heritage that a hypothetical "Sons of the 3rd Reich" would promote, would be a complete disregard for the value of Jews as human beings.  Decent people would not honor the 3rd Reich in any way because it would be repulsive to them.  Similarly, the record of the confederacy should repulse people who recognize blacks as human beings and fellow Americans.  A person who thought of blacks as human beings would not spend time rationalizing or honoring their confederate past.

Germans reject the 3rd Reich as being German heritage because decent German society strives to learn from the mistakes of the past to make a better society for the future.  This is the best any nation can do when the wrong path was taken.  How ironic we criticize the Germans for claiming that the average German didn't know what was going on in the concentaration camps.  At least they are now ashamed of the Holocaust.  On the other hand we have people publicly proclaiming the confederates as heroes.  What have we learned?  We should be ashamed of the confederacy just as the majority of German people are ashamed of their nazi past.

Whenever someone tells you they are just honoring their confederate heritage remember:  this person isn't bothered by concerns for the humanity of black Americans, sees no problems with the confederacy as a source of moral values for society, sees nothing to be learned from the mistakes of this past, and spends a great deal of time rationalizaing and honoring this past.  They may not be a member of the Ku Klux Klan, but they are not very far removed from it.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:49 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
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Hey tsmith or madbilly still waiting on that proof there were 93000 free black men serving in the confederate army.  Are you still looking and unable to find any?  That's because none exist, except from known racist groups.

Thought sure both of you would want to respond on why the above post is not true.  Guess you agree that the confederacy should not be honored.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:52 PM on November 7, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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A, you can think whatever the hell you want, I don't care.  I have a minor in american history and know a lot about the civil war.  Blacks did serve in the civil war and that is a fact.  B, uneducated moronic, assuming people like yourself are the type of people that think all the confederate flag is a sign of racisim a hate.  Come to the south and you will find that is not true whatsoever.  Your opinion of what I believe in doesn't keep me up at night, but your ignorance does.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:06 AM on November 8, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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do you know the rap group called Outkast..well they are from atlanta and the one named big boy wears a rebel flag belt buckle bc he said he takes pride in the south and he has ancestors that fought in the civil war...he is black.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:06 AM on November 8, 2002 | IP
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tsmith, great comeback there.Whenever a position is weak, or as in your case fraudulent, it's always a good idea instead of backing up your points to resort to name calling.  That sure makes you look intelligent.

What were the ideals of the confederacy and the flag you so dearly love?  States attempting to secede wrote no single Declaration of Independence, but some did specify their ideals in separate state declarations.  Here's one from the legislature of Mississippi in 1861:  "Our position is thorughly identified with the institution of slavery-the greatest material interest of the world."  Slavery was the most basic ideal of the confederacy as stated by confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens, again in 1861:  "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the Negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery-subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition."  The most basic ideal of the confederacy was white supremacy as stated by its Vice President.

Thank God the confederacy died in 1865, but the ideals behind its flag have never changed.  The confederates who fought under that flag sought to uphold white supremacy.  After their defeat they continued to fight for white supremacy in the Ku Klux Klan, in the establishment of the sharecropper society, in the Black Codes written into law, and in many other means of discrimination.  At their rallies to keep black children out of white schools, and on their statehouses in defiance of federal anti-discrimination laws, the rebel flag flew as the symbol of white supremacy.

The smell of slavery wasn't removed from the rebel flag by the confederacy, it was blasted off by the victory of the Union.  But the stain of white supremacy has nevered been cleansed from the rebel flag. If you want to end the controversy over the flag, you're going to have to come up with some way of separating white supremacy from the rebel flag.  Which is probably as impossible as trying to have the Germans successfully convince the Jews that the Nazi flag now only represents "German heritage" and not anti-Semitism.

If you want to fly that obnoxious symbol, it's your right to do so.  But it also my right to correctly tell the world what that rebel flag actually represents.

Since you "have a minor in american history and know a lot about the civil war" I would think you could come up with a little more proof than saying:  "Blacks did serve in the civil war and that is a fact".  I guess you think we will just take your word that "93000 free blacks" served for the confederacy.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:09 AM on November 8, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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okay and the notherners werent racist? so you are telling me that the southerners are the only racist people in america. Iv said it once and ill say it again the american flag was the one flying over the slave ships. The rebel flag was not the flag of the confederacy, it is the battle flag of the soldiers carried as nothing more than a marker to identify troop movements and to direct artillery fire away from these untis. The original flag used looked too much like the union flag so they adapted the naval jack flag of the confederate navy, (this flag was patterened after a cross between the british flag and the union flag if you havnt noticed, and that was done on purpose). also it was the american flag over the japanese interment camps not the "racist" dirty old confederate flag ( i bet you hate the show "dukes of Hazzard") If you are not from the south then stay out and "run your mouth cause we will run our buisiness". Only the top one percent of the rich owned slaves and they didnt fight in the war but rather the poor, so this flag is a dedication to the poor southerners who had to fight and die for the political gains of the rich. As ozzy osbourne said in the song war pigs off the 1969 album paranoid "politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war, why cant they go out and fight, they leave peril to the poor", it (as stated from someone earlier) was a rich mans war but a poor mans fight. Why cant you under stand the fact that even if the war was about slavery (which i believe it wasnt) then the flag still has nothing to do with it, it was carried by the poor people who where forced to fight, and fight they did. Look at how many soldiers of each army died at each battle and who won just about nearly all of the major battles, the good old boys of the south, we only lost by the will of god and the lack of money. Shure you might claim that some racist groups use the confederate flag, such as the KKK, but they also use the the american flag and there own flag is a cross with a teardrop of blood in it, so how does this relate to the confederate flag as racist bc it would also lead to the american flag being racist. The nazis do not use the rebel flag as they show it being used on many tv shows and the like. Shure some racist people might have fought in the confederacy but the same could be said about the north, the worst race riots did not happen in the south but rather in the midwest(tulsa race riots) and in the north (detroit race riots) and in california (Watts riots and rodney king). If the southerners where so racist then why where they more ethnically diverse from the outset with there Native american help from the five civilized tribes from the trail of tears indians and the large amount of latino soldiers from texas. Also creole help from the bayous of the french speaking areas of Louisiana.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:12 AM on November 9, 2002 | IP
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tsmith said:  "...uneducated moronic, assuming people..."

I'z sur nuff sory massah tsmith, I'z sholda knowed betta than be back talkin to yah.  Pleeze dont whup me sur.  Us here "uneducated" folks needs to lern ours place.  Git ya a mint juliep there boss.

(How's that tsmith?  Is that the way you southern gentlemen prefer to be spoken to by us "moronic assuming people".)
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:39 AM on November 9, 2002 | IP
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Here is why I hate the confederate flag:

1.  The confederate flag flew at the head of armies who sought the dissoulution of the greatest nation in the history of civilization, namely the U.S.  So to not hate it would be unpatriotic.

2.  The confederate flag flew at the head of armies which denied feedom to millions as a matter of policy and in the name of greed and white supremacy.  So to not hate it would be racist.

3.  The confederate flag flies at the head of the Ku Klux Klan rallies, even today, in the name of bigotry.  So to not hate it would make you a bigot.

4.  The confederate flag flew at rallies to keep black children out of public schools in the name of segregation.  So to not hate it would make you a segratationist.

I could go on and on but what's the point.  You do whatever you want with your confederate flag.  I know how I use my confederate flag, its a roll of toilet paper, that I use to wipe with.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 07:14 AM on November 9, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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well guest you successfulyy dodged every thing i said and stated some BS..the confederate flag is not the flag of the kkk they have a flag with a cross with a tera drop n the middlee, and they also fly the american flag


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 1:18 PM on November 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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What flag flew over the slave ships that brought your ansectors here?  Who did we get your anscetors from?  The Confederate army never tried to overthrow the united states government, that was not there intention.  They want a new nation completely different and away from the US.  And I believe earlier you called me immature something to that extent, well telling us you are going to wipe your ass with the confederate flag is real grown up.  I aspire to be like you now.  


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 5:36 PM on November 9, 2002 | IP
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tmith asks:  "What flag flew over the slave ships that brought your ansectors here?  Who did we get your anscetors from?"

Probably the Union Jack since they came from England; and it wasn't on a slave ship.  And you didn't get my ancestors from anyone since they never belonged to anyone.  You have assumed I am black because I hate the confederate flag, you are wrong - I am white.  I wonder why you would jump to the conclusion that someone must be black and an "uneducated moronic, assuming" person just becaause they disagree with you about the confederate flag.  Do I smell a whiff of racism here?

This proves the point of what kind of people support the confederate flag.  Some people think bigotry has to wear a white hood, burn a cross and blatantly exclude minorities from society to qualify as a problem.  To many racism looks more camouflaged, a good deal of racism has gone underground.  For some people it's just always under the surface, but always ready to rear its ugly head.

This country is divided, but not simply along racial lines; a huge gap separates Americans who see racism from those who do not.  Forty five years ago it was easier to mobilize the nation's conscience against the closed doors of southern schools than it is today against the invisible walls that separate blacks from whites inside those same schools.  Bigotry then was so explicit and brittle that it could be shattered by the hammer of the law.  Now, more hidden, it is supple enough to insinuate itself into acceptable practices.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 06:56 AM on November 10, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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The reason I assumed you are black was because in the affirmative action post you said you were black.  Well then answer this, what flag flew over the slave ships, was it the american flag or the confederate flag?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 6:27 PM on November 10, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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And please, quit dodging topics that are directed to you, please answer them.  


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 6:32 PM on November 10, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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i have already asked that person to quite dodging qiestions and i have also asked that person about which flag flew over slave ships....no good answer was given if any...so dont expect this person to do anything except for repeat the samr rhetoric over and over and over again...


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 6:40 PM on November 10, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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The answer of your slave ship problem lies in interpretation.  Although what you say is true, no one associates the American flag with slavery.  People do however, associate the confederate flag with hate, death, and white supremacy.  

Let's say the flag's true meaning is as innocent as you propose (which it isn't), my middle finger is no more than that, my middle finger, but it is interpreted by the common public to be a very bad thing, therefore we should refrain from extending our middle finger in public.  The actual "badness" of it is irrelevant, it is interpreted to express evil.

I think that it has become more of a bullheaded stubborn "i can so i will" argument than honoring your ancestors or whatever.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:14 PM on November 10, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Some may take it as I can so I will, but I don't.  The American flag did fly over slave ships for almost a century but everyone seems to over look that.  Why?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 11:08 PM on November 10, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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so under your logic then japan should not fly its flag at its embassy in america or at UN meetings bc the japanese killed many americans and mass murdered many chinese. No the flag of the risinf sun was used by kamikazees and japanese war criminals but no one says anything about that. Shure you might say it is another country and we should not worry about that, but the cinfederacy was another country and you worry about it. Just bc the kamikazees and war criminal fought under the flag doesnt mean anything about all the people who fly it anyways, just bc they are proud of there territory, The KKK has tarnished the name of dixie and its flag also, but did you know that there are more kkk members in Indiana than anywhere else. Indiana is the only state that ever had a KKK member (at least publicly) win a political position. Now if you know geography then you will know that Indiana is a far northern state that was part of the union. The KKK in Indiana did not fly a rebel flag when it was in its hay day ther a long time ago...this occured in the early 1900's. They flew the KKK flag (a cross with a teardrop of blood) and the american flag. It is only on shows like jerry springer (which is fake) that the kkk flies a rebel flag, and also in movies. Dont assume you know anything about the southern heritage bc i dont blieve you are from here.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:28 PM on November 10, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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your remark about the nazi flag and swastika dont apply to this bc the Nazis are a hate group and the southerners arent. Also the swastika is not a German sighn but rather a sign found in many cultures and beliefes. India used the sign ans even Ghandi used it as well and so did south american people. So to get rid of the swastika totally would interfer with religious beliefs, i know thats not your point i was just saying for a ouint of interst thing.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:35 PM on November 10, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Who are you talking to?



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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 02:07 AM on November 11, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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guest



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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:55 AM on November 11, 2002 | IP
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tsmith:  You are not only a fool but a liar.  I never said I was black in any posts.  I did not say either way, because I knew a racist such as yourself would think I was black automatically.  As far as the flag flying over slave ships it is irrelevant, because it was southerners who owned them and killed them and tortured them and raped them.  Listening to you probably some of your relatives did it.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:50 AM on November 11, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Are you the same guest that keeps posting in affirmative action?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 12:50 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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And also I guess that slaves weren't sold through boston?  Boston was one of the main slave trading centers next to Charleston.  Slaves were owned in the north too.  And the american flag flying over slaves ships is relevant, how can you say it isn't.  People look at the confederate flag as a sign of slavery, well the ships that brought them here had the american flag flying, not the confederate.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 6:16 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
kyjman

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It seems to me that if the Civil War was fought for the ending of slavery then it accomplished that. However, why did it take another 100 years for the U.S. Government to reconize the blacks as equals. Whats wrong with this picture. I think that anyone alive today that gets offended by ANY historical item has some other very serious problems and this feeling of offensiveness is hiding that deep rooted problem.


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If we can't get over the past, we will be passed over.
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 7:43 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
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Let me give my final thoughts on the confederate flag.  People can use what ever weasel words they want to justify it, they can use whatever revisionist history they want to justify it; but the confederate flag is a symbol of racism and oppression to anyone who themselves is not a racist.  Look into your heart tsmith, and if you don't realize your are a racist then your are only kidding yourself.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:19 AM on November 12, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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You continue to go on these rants but refuse to answer anyones questions, I am not a racisit whatsoever, I have many black friends and I know what is in my heart, love for my ansectors.  And for that I honor them the way I was taught to.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:28 AM on November 12, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Please, answer the questions that are asked to you, or do you not have an answer?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:30 AM on November 12, 2002 | IP
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The Confederate flag does convey a since of degridation for some of us blacks. Yes it does stand as symbol for which many southerners died (white and balck) however, to me it's the term of it's use. A flag the window of a truck makes me look at the driver and wonder, a flag over a building makes me look and wonder, a flag being held by someone stating that they are racist lets me know where they stand which makes me wonder about the previous again. (please notice that i gave the first two the benifit of the doubt.

Here in Texas i have a problem with having the back side of the voters registration for written in spanish. If we are here in america and we have the right to vote shouldn't we also be able to read and understand the written english language?

Warchild

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:35 PM on November 17, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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I can completely agree with everything that you said and I understand what you mean.  I also see the same thing all the time and you never know which one is true, the racist or the historian.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:21 AM on November 27, 2002 | IP
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You rednecks say that the confederate flag is about heritage. Well I guess the swastika should be flying over germany then it's heritage also!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:00 PM on December 2, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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hahaha, good point


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:51 AM on December 3, 2002 | IP
    
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