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       lol homophobes are funny

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Homosexuality is not JUST THE ACT OF SEX.

Some gay-teens commit suicide because they are gay, yet never had gay sex.  

The issue is the SEXUALITY, not the SEX.  

Sadly, the bible never mentions the sexuality alone, outside of the GAY SEX.  Simply because there was even more ignorance at that time, than today.

Under these terms of the bible, then you can only condem those who YOU KNOW actually have had gay sex outside of love. REGARDLESS weather or not they are "gay".
The bible never mentions gay-sex in love or marriage.

Now, those ignorant on this issue will then backt track.  Now saying that there is no such thing as gay-bi sexuality unless you actually have had that kind of sex.  They actually pretend that everyone is straight.  Yet for some bizare reason we decide to fall in love with the SEX WERE NOT ATTRACTED TO?  Obviously being gay or bi is not a choice, however the act of sex is a choice.  For everyone.

lol, we all know that no one decides their sexuality and it develops long before your first sexual encounter of any kind (if you have one).

My hope is that homophobes will recognize that by giving Gods gay and lesbian children an oppertunity to get married they are helping other kids in the future to live a somewhat normal life as a gay kid and still LOVE GOD AS THEY WERE CREATED.

It's ironic it comes to this but..

HOMOPHOBIA IS A CHOICE

TO HATE GODS GAY AND LESBIAN CHILDREN IS AGAINST GOD.  YOU CAN'T JUDGE ALL GAY'S AS HAVING HAD SEX. LOL, EVEN BIBLICALLY THATS RIDICULOUS.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:10 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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In general the people that go around saying "God hates Gays" are just useing God as a way to justify their own bias and hatred.  Someone who really knows God knows that he says to love thy neighbor as thyself... so basicly love everyone, including gays.  

And just as a side note, I get called a homophobe a lot,  I just remind people that homo= same and phobic= fear of , so homophobic means the fear of the same...


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 9:58 PM on November 27, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Yes, buty it is derived from homosexual.  Your interpretation is wrong - fear of the same sexes is basically what it is.

Im a homophobeophobe.  I think its dumb to not like gays--their so nice and funny.

And also, christians are against gays - "thou shalt not lay with another man" or something like that is clearly a way for god to say, 'No gay sex  for you!'  Then, god also states in the bible, 'And the (insert gay word i forgot) shalt beith burned' i think.  Obviously, god hates gay people.  You'd think hes all care and love...


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 11:09 AM on November 28, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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there is no point in dissecting the word homophobia. maybe it is not the best word to use, but every one knows what it means: you don't like homosexuals or homosexuality. who cares it its because of religion? it still comes out being the same.
and exxoss...
i think you're wrong. i don't think god says gays will burn in hell (not entirely sure about that). or maybe that's just the old testament. it just sounds wrong to me. but i don't really care, because Goodnight Moon has more validity to me than the Bible (actually, that's a great book! I can't wait to read it to my kids as I subtly influence them to become gay, and while I'm at it, drug-users and serial killers too.)


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:56 AM on November 29, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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exxoss totally made up that verse. that sentence can be found nowhere in the Bible


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:44 PM on December 1, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 1:44 PM on December 1, 2002 :
exxoss totally made up that verse. that sentence can be found nowhere in the Bible


I think the first verse is soemthing like "thou shall not lay with another man like thou layith with a woman". The other one I'm not sure about if that's what your challenging.
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 06:18 AM on December 3, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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the one that i am challenging is "Then, god also states in the bible, 'And the (insert gay word i forgot) shalt beith burned' i think." thats complete crap. stop making up stuff to support your wacko ideas


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:52 AM on December 3, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Another well researched post by Exxoss...

God does not hate gays.  There is a big difference between saying, this is wrong, and I will hate you if you do this!

I think eating oreo cookies till you puke is wrong, you shouldnt do it, but does that mean that if my kid ate oreos until they puked I would hate them? Never!

It is the same thing here.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 01:29 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i love exxoss' "research"


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:08 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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I really don't think you should be insulting him for what could simply be misheard information from someone else.
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 8:35 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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no mention of burning, but in relation to the verse about it being an abomination (Lev. 18:22) it says in Lev 18:29 "For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people." so not burning, merely excommunication. nice.
and i have heard the burning thing too, so i cant blame exxoss (for this one anyway)


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:49 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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and START THE DEBATE IN THE TOURNAMENT!!!


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:50 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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how many times do i have to tell you guys that the punishments and laws in the Old Testament were abolished when Christ died for us! those laws were part of the OLD covenant, Christ created a NEW covenant. secondly, i do blame exxoss for making up complete horse crap when he wrote that supposed "bible verse".


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:09 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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what, did God change his mind? "umm...yeah. This is your immortal, omnipotent creator speaking. yeah, i screwed up abit the first time around, so I'm gonna send one of my cronies down to kinda, straighten things up abit. Sorry bout that."
It seems slightly inconsistant with the classic view of an omnipotent God. oh, and you BELIEVE that Jesus' supersedes the original word of God. not know (this is becoming a pet peeve).


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 01:28 AM on December 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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"jesus" did not come to change any laws from the old testament....you merely just dont understand what the old laws where
 1. Sabbath. The seventh day has always been and will always be the sabbath. This seventh day is saturday not sunday. Constantine changed this law back in the days of his rule and it has stuck with the catholic church since. And since the protestants broke off from the catholics after Martin Luther they too followed suite. One of the ten commandments is to observe the sabbath and keep it holy.
   2. What was said about slaves some where else maybe in this thread possibly another (bc i know you will bring it up) the bible calls servants slaves bc the same word is used for the two in Hebrew. A servant is generally nothing more than a "wage slave". Also on the seventh year you are supposed to forgive all debts and get rid of your "slaves"
   3. Why did "jesus" follow all the laws of the old testament. Why....bc he came to enforce them not to change them...do you remember when the guy was going to stone the adulturer and he said "he who is without sin shall cast the first stone". The reason he stopped the stoning was bc in the old testament it says that both people that are guilty of Adultury are to be stoned, also take note that the other person who commited the sin with her was not present and as another biblical law of the old testament says that you must actually witness the act for it to be punished, and notice that the guy going to stone her did not witness the act, it is like bearing false witness.
  4. show me one verse from the new testament that says the old laws where done away with.
   5.Why did the apostles continue to observe the old testament laws as the new sect of judaism called the Nazarenes.
    6.The ONLY!!! thing that changed was that we no longer have to sacrifice animals, bc "jesus" came to be our sacrifice.


now im going to ask you a question....does anyone know why "jesus" was put to death....do you know why exactly?


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:01 AM on December 5, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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first off, the old testament made it a requirement to not do ANY work on the sabbath (which included walking or healing) but Jesus refuted this when he was healing people on the Sabbath. The pharisees  condemned him of this and accused him many times of breaking the "law" which is found in the Old Testament.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:41 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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you also asked for a verse that showed that the old laws were done away with...here are a few:

if you have a Bible, read Hebrews chapter 8 starting in verse 7 and ending in verse 13. since this passage is very long, i will just post the highlights:

"For if there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said: 'The time is coming when I will make a new covenant..."

"By calling this covenant 'new', he has made the first one obsolete[i][/i]; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear."


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:47 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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heres another verse in Galatians chapter 3 verse 22:

"But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. NOW THAT FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW."


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:53 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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the Bible makes it quite clear that the old law and the old way of doing things are obsolete. there are more verses that say this in the new testament, if you're not satisfied with the ones i provided


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:56 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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The old Testament says not to carry money on the sabbth bc to spend money is to do work yet all churchs takr up Tithes...."jesus" did not take up tithes nor did the apostles they lived off there own means. Walking on the sabbath you say...it says not to leave your home....not, not to walk. When it says home it means village or town you live in, obviously people had to walk to get to there congregation. Jesus healed on the sabbth, but that is not work, it is a miracle, is it a sin to take tylenol on sabbath. Your versus from hebrews is relating to the end time when "jesus" will return to the earth. This is evident in verse 11 where he says "all will know me" since all dont know him now bc we have thousands of religions then how is this a covenant now...think about it he is talking about the future. He even says that "in the days to come" he is not saying now...read the whole verse from beggining to end and you will see that. Your verse from Galatians i can say the same read it from beggining to end and you will once again realize what is being talked about...you can not use bits and pieces you need to use the whole verse. Use verse 20 and 21 of this galatians 3 and it says "Is the law then against the promises of Elohim?(hebrew word look it up your self if you dont know it then you obviously dont know what the bible truly says) by no means:...you still dont know why "jesus " was killed do you...one thing in particular one solidary act?


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 2:57 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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first of all, the pharisees did condemn Jesus for healing on the Sabbath because they said it broke the old law. secondly, why do you feel like you have to put Jesus in quotes. when I'm talking about the President of the US, i dont say "bush"


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 3:05 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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bc "jesus" is a greek name. There is no "J" in hebrew his name was Yahushua. They put him to death for saying Yahweh. The true Name of GOD. That is why Pilot said "you bring him to me for the use of a word, a name. This is a problem of religion, not of law"


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 3:22 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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yahweh is not the true name of god. the true name of god (in terms of ancient jewish belief) is 72 syllabels long and is only revealed to kabbalic (jewish mysticism) masters. yahweh is a convienant shortening or representation for God that translates to "lord." the phrase that starts virtually all hebrew prayers is "baruch atah adonai (yahweh) elohenu melech haolam...." which translates to "praise (baruch) you (atah) adonai/yahweh (lord), our god (elohenu), king (melech) of the universe (haolam)."


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:30 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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The ten commandments where autographed with Yahweh written on them. Yahushua measn in hebrew Ya is our salvation..ya is short for Yahweh.

(Edited by madbilly 12/6/2002 at 01:06 AM).


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:05 AM on December 6, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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madbilly, you said that because Jesus' real name translates differently to english, we should put quotes around his name. so are you saying we should do the same with Julius Caesar? after all, his name had to be translated differently to english as well...oh excuse me, "Julius Caesar".


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 09:09 AM on December 6, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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you do not translate names to languages....if you go to mexico the will still call you bill or bob or whatever your name is. It is still spelled the same. We call Adolph Hitler ....Adolph Hitler...we call Fujijo Hirosoto...Fujijo Hirosoto...names dont change in tranlation...words do but not names and Julius ceasers name was Julius Ceaser...in latin....and in English...show me one name that changes with langusage...there are none.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 5:17 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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God has lots of names, it your really have a problem with it, just call him the king of kings, I honestly dont think he will have a problem with that... ;)




-------
No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 8:01 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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i am not condeming nor do i have a problem..i just believe he should be called by the only name he called himself. The name that we are supposed to know him by, the name his son called him...the name he autographed on the ten commandments...by what he meanyt when he said in the commandments that we should not make wrong use of his name...by what all the apostles called him....by what his son was put to death for saying...etc. etc.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:51 AM on December 7, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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I will call him Al...


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 8:44 PM on December 7, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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hey alex i know you are very intelligent....so what would your take be on names...would you call someone by a different name in a different language....or would you call them by what they say there name is..i thought i would ask you bc you would be unbiased. If someone sighned there name to something(ten commandments) wouldnt you call them by that name anywhere on the globe...i might be mistaken but didnt you say you where in china or something one time...so if you where what did the chinese call you.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:50 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Havah

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Many places they cannot pronounce my name so they call me something different.   Some Filipinos I've met can't say the letter 'v' so they call me Habah instead of Havah.  I'm not sure if this is applicable to the time when they began using Jesus, but maybe.


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One God; One Truth; One Way
 


Posts: 15 | Posted: 5:07 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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but they do try to pronounce your name dont they....they dont call you billy when you say your name is Havah do they.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 8:17 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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Julius Caesar is spelled Jules Cesar in France. what do you think about that madbilly?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:43 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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oh excuse me..."Julius Caesar" is spelled "Jules Cesar" in France.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:44 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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it is pronounced the same..it is the same name


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 9:55 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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no it is not pronounced the same at all


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 03:13 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i seriously doubt that you know French


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 03:13 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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i do speak german and i will tell you this..have you ever seen those two little dots placed over vowels in some german words such as lowenbrau beer(they are over the O) what that does is basically say that you pronounce it as if an E where after that vowel so if you can not type with those two little dots(called umlats)  like i cant now then you would spell it loewenbrau...hebrew has an alphabet with no vowels so the name was spelled YHWH people that speak hebrew know basically by instinct what letters to put in it (im speaking of paleo hebrew by the way)...about Julius ceaser....have you ever heard of a C section(you know like pregenant women having there child through this) C section stands for ceaserian section...all medical terms are in Latin which is the language of the romans the C section was named after Julius Ceaser bc he was born this way and he wanted it named after himself...so in latin and English and anyother language it is the same.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 04:04 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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correct me if i'm wrong, but God was originally called Yahweh by the Israelites. so should we put God in quotes?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 09:09 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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probaly...but it is an inproper noun..its like me calling you "person" instead of "falling upwards"


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 4:51 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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hebrew has vowels. and once again, yahweh (pronouced adonai. go figure) translates to lord in hebrew. i swear to god (however it is spelled/pronouced).


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:49 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i've also heard that another name for God is Jah. does anybody know what language it is?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 8:55 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Once again I could be wrong, so take it easy, but it seems like whenever i hear it it's associated with rastafarianism.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 9:37 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i first heard the term Jah from a christian band that most of y'all are familiar with called P.O.D....pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is rastafarianism?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:40 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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http://www.angelfire.com/ms/sk4/rasta.html

(Edited by Maynard 12/9/2002 at 10:55 PM).


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 10:55 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
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Back too the original topic..

Leviticus is about "cleanness".  Obviously do not apply today.

The famous Leviticus commandment was referring too men being penetrated LIKE A WOMAN,  A better translation would be, "Men are not too be penetrated like a woman".

-Robert
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:10 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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well, i know chinese and french, and they all have different names for everything.
and...well, just because the Bible was first written in whatever language it was (Aramaic or what? i don't know), those people didn't invent God right? i mean, they don't have a patent on him, right? he existed and had a name before they gave it to him? why should everyone use the same name just cause that was the first one, or the first published one?

and here's a very simple question: I am all for tangents (I do it all the time), but I am just wondering people's opinion...in a discussion of gay CIVIL rights, why should religious belief or religious doctrine even be mentioned? unless you're like hooyah, who thinks this country should only be run by Christian values.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 01:47 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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it seems like every debate (no matter what subject), always seems to go back to religion


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:35 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
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I am pretty intersted in why the poll for this question ended up like it did. Why for instance did only 6% of the people vote for selecting a gay couple to adopt only if a more suitable family could not be found, while almost 55+% voted for allowing gay couples to adopt.

The reason I am interested is this - The primary concern in any adoption is the interest of the child. Taking the interest of the child as the primary focus would lead one to search for the best home available for the child. This would not exclude gay couples it would include them. It would however require one to search for a more traditional family first. It would also not deny the gay couple of the oportunity to adopt. The child would have more options, certainly having a loving family - even a non traditional one - would be better then the foster system.

I believe that many debates about sensitive issues become narrowed in scope by vitrue of the nature of the subject discussed;this is one such debate. I believe that people are afraid to be labeled homophobic, or racist or sexist or any other liteny of labels that carry a negative connotation. I believe that ideas exist in a form that can carry no baggage other then the objective proof of its existence.  

I truly believe the best interest of the child is not served by blindly allowing gay couples to adopt in lieu of a better family for fear of being labeled homophobic. But I will not stop there. I propose a crazy idea - don't let hetero couples adopt if you can find a better home. Do research into the stabilty of prospective parents before allowing them to adopt. I would even say in order to absolutely guarantee the parents are fit, do home visits on the family - before, and after they adopt. All in order to sequre the best home environment you can for the child. Wait...we do that already.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:42 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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I am in total agreement. Best interest of the child (the standard everywhere but Florida). But gay couples shouldnt be on some sort of secondary tier, only to be tapped if all hetero couples are maxed out. Judge em all by the same standard.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:35 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
    
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