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buffstud

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Marriage is the joining of one man and one woman of different families. It's sad that too many people want to pervert what God gave us. God gave us marriage. Man didn't create it, man didn;t define it. God did. And he gave marriagr only one deffinition. People who argue that homosexuals should be allowed to get married are sadly mistaken or confused. Marriage is for people who truly love each other. Gays can't truly love because love is given by God to those who love God. And you cant love God if you are doing what he calls an abomination. So therefore, gays can't truly love. It is a lie that they have been sucked into by whatever means and they believe it is true. Since they can not truly love, they should not be allowed to have marriage. Also, marriage is for families. A family is two people(a man and a woman) who love each other and have children. If you look in an anatomy text book, you'll see that two men or two women can't have sex and reproduce. The only way for two homosexuals to have children is through adoption or through some outside help. So two gays can't have a family. It's not physically possible. How can gays justify bringing a child up in a "family" with no structure? With two dads, the child will not learn what only a mom can teach, especially the girls, who need to learn what it is like to someday be a mom. With two moms, the child won't have a good male role model(a father), especially for the boys, who need to learn how to be a man. Bringing a child up in these conditions will not give that child the opportunity to chose their sexuality like they would in a well-balanced family. They would see it only from one side, the wrong side. People who believe in gay marriage or gay rights need to be better informed about the consequences this would have on society. It is wrong to think that such a small percentage of the worlds population (1 % of the population is gay) should be allowed to change what way more than half the world wants. People who want gay rights are wanting a special intrests right for a small minority. This is wrong. To change something like marriage, there should be a vote of at least 51 %. Abd since only 1% of the population is gay, this is statisticaly almost impossibe.


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Thats the way it is...
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 12:50 PM on May 21, 2004 | IP
valet_dave

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That was thoroughly entertaining buffstud, I love your work!

I'm intrigued into what the consequences for a society who approves gay marriages and gay rights might be.  Are you able to expand on this?

Cheers,
Dave


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Life BEFORE death. You know it makes sense.
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 7:47 PM on May 25, 2004 | IP
valet_dave

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Okay, it looks like you need more encouragement, so lets see how serious you are.

I agree that marriage has traditionally been the union of a man and a woman.  But unfortunately, that's about as much of your post that makes any sense.  The only real message you have conveyed here is one of homophobia and it sad to see what you are really trying to achieve in your post.  Your pathetic explanations of love, families and marriage deserve some sympathy, however it is never too late to open your heart and mind.

Firstly, let's get one thing straight, a belief in any kind of god does not form a prerequisite for marriage. I myself was married by a civil celebrant in a reception that had no reference whatsoever to any religious philosophy.  My marriage is recognized by society and the law.  So your reference to a god can be seen as irrelevant in many valid marriages today.

Do you really think that a male and female couple who have children, somehow magically become good role models?  Take a step out of your supernatural realm for a moment to look at the divorce rates, the child abuse cases from parents, the custody battles, the conflict that exists in many households.  These aren't good nurturing environments!  I can see no reason why a gay couple could not do a better job of raising children than many heterosexual couples.  To try to keep a balance, I would also say that gay couples are just as fallible as heterosexuals when it comes to raising children and maintaining a relationship.

Your definition of true love is severely flawed.  Again, you use god to provide a foundation for love.  I can tell you from direct experience that an absence of any god in ones life has absolutely nothing to do with the way you feel about a life partner.  I invite you to prove that my feelings of love for my partner are less intense or real because I do not practise any religion.  Furthermore, I would like to know how you can measure anyone’s love, and then make an accurate comparison to someone else.  You have absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying.

There are several definitions of what constitutes a family, some of which do not require the presence of both a man and a woman.  This could be a result of circumstance or choice.  Regardless, there are many families that exist in our society today that simply do not fit your narrow definition.  Despite your view, these groups still remain families, however you try to label them.

So what if gay people can't reproduce?  Does that mean you should deny their right to form a relationship and then marry outside a church if they so choose?  And since when do a married couple have an obligation to produce offspring.  The free society that you live in and take for granted everyday allows and promotes personal choice.

It is fortunate that many modern political systems take steps to represent the minority groups that you would choose to suppress.  Your quest to deny gay marriages is a total invasion of their privacy and individual rights.  Your attempt to link decay in society to recognition of minority groups is a sad reflection on the institution that you profess to believe in and clearly demonstrates your prejudice and intolerance.  



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Life BEFORE death. You know it makes sense.
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 12:03 AM on June 3, 2004 | IP
ender_wiggin1988

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Let the gay people get married. it won't hurt you and it won't hurt god or jebus. so just leave them alone and let them get married. How would you feel if you were gay and you weren't aloud to get married.


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DON'T EVER BE ALONE...

FAT PEOPLE ARE HARD TO KIDNAP...
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 10:34 AM on June 18, 2004 | IP
Armaski

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Buffstud -
You bring up an interesting point but not necessarily true.  Where does it say God created marriage? He is not a married person, humans were first to be married, so I can safely assume that humans created it.  Are you saying that if somebody doesn't love God they shouldn't be wed?  I know plenty of people that don't believe in God (so they can't love him), and they're happily in love.  You are forming predetermined opinions that true love is something given or something that just happens, but that's infatuation between two people.  True love is work,  people that love each other work at loving each other.  When spouses are angry with each other, this fantasy of love doesn't bring them together, it's the hard work and commitment they put into it.  Two homosexuals can put hardwork into a relationship and be just in love as anyone.  And you think there should be a poll of over 51% of people that support gay marriages?  Checked the polls lately here at youdebate.com?
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Do you support legalized Gay Marriage?

YES: 53.23%

NO: 46.77%

---

Looks like it's over 51%.

You are forming too many assumptions that are either fallacious or unpredictable.  A single mom or dad with a child (heterosexual, maybe the spouse died or left) can raise the child to be a normal functioning citizen in society.  Just because there is no equal structure in the home family does not mean that when a child needs help with an issue their parent cannot assist them with means they are utterly hopeless.  They aren't as sheltered as you may think.

Overall, we have a seperation of church and state in America, and whether God (if he exists) says marriage is the union of a man and woman then oh well, there's no consitutional law saying that a gay marriage is wrong.


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Disagree? Feel free to IM me on AIM at Armaski to discuss it.
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 02:04 AM on June 24, 2004 | IP
basouma13

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No, I think gay adoption shouldn’t be legal.
Religious is a reason prohibits gay marriage. Gay parents are not allowed to adopt children. Homosexuality is immoral and that we should not put children into that environment. It’s what I believe in. there is no right to mix religion and politics. There is an overwhelming weight of scientific evidence that homosexual lifestyle is harmful. The gay lifestyle is a dangerous lifestyle for a child. The child would be depressed, have diseases, would be violent and would be a gay parent when he grows up. A young boy or girl will have to watch both of his/her fathers or mothers grow sick with AIDS and die within few months.



 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 10:29 AM on March 30, 2005 | IP
K8

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Quote from basouma13 at 10:29 AM on March 30, 2005 :
No, I think gay adoption shouldn’t be legal.
Religious is a reason prohibits gay marriage. Gay parents are not allowed to adopt children. Homosexuality is immoral and that we should not put children into that environment. It’s what I believe in. there is no right to mix religion and politics. There is an overwhelming weight of scientific evidence that homosexual lifestyle is harmful. The gay lifestyle is a dangerous lifestyle for a child. The child would be depressed, have diseases, would be violent and would be a gay parent when he grows up. A young boy or girl will have to watch both of his/her fathers or mothers grow sick with AIDS and die within few months.





Please tell me you're kidding. The child would be depressed? Have diseases? Where are you getting such arguments? How could a gay couple somehow infect a child with diseases? (i assume that's what you mean by your comment). Why would the child be violent? Could you explain that further, please...

And furthermore, have you found any evidence that gay couples somehow influence other people to become gay? The child would be exposed to homosexuality, yes - but that in no way means that they will 'adopt' that lifestyle (although it is not a choice, but i won't argue about that here...). The child would, and rightly so, grow up to be a tolerant and open-minded human being and lead a perfectly healthy life. We need more people like this in the world.

Last of all, i would just like to ask where the research is that states that all homosexuals have HIV/AIDS? That is an extremely naive generalisation. You do realise that heterosexuals are able to contract HIV/AIDS, right? And they can actually pass it on to their children...scary, right?

Children adopted by gay or lesbian couples don't grow up "confused" or "messed up" - they're mor likely to grow up "tolerant" and "open-minded". How very unfortunate...



 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 01:02 AM on April 16, 2005 | IP
rob74696

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To k8,

I love your posts, whenever you start with "Please tell me you're kidding", I know I better get a fresh cup of coffee and relax,, cause this is gonna be good. Keep at it. thanks for all the positive feedback and enlightenment.

Rob


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Robert
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 2:31 PM on April 23, 2005 | IP
K8

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To Rob,

Thanx! Looking at my other posts, i didn't realise how much i actually started off with "please tell me you're kidding..." - i guess i just get so shocked at some peoples, er, disagreeable opinions. I can't wait to read some more of your posts in the future - welcome!

K8
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:35 AM on April 24, 2005 | IP
aznboiz1993

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hey the holy bible has no say here. the treaty of tripoli and the first amendment said that the church be seperated from the state. furthermore who gave u the right to deny gay marriage just because the word marriage says so huh? without a solid argument behind ur statement i see no reason y gay marriage is an illegal issue. if u think the gay ppl will influence our society u are totally wrong. the gays have some sort of gene inside of them and these hormones or whatever make these ppl love the same gender and not the opposite one
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 1:51 PM on July 5, 2005 | IP
aznboiz1993

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gay marriage immoral? says who? the bible? hey if u don't believe in god then he doesn't exist in the skies. furthermore just like my last statement religion has no say in legal rights or in the law. the treaty and the amendment said so so just kill the religous stuff ok?

 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 1:53 PM on July 5, 2005 | IP
aznboiz1993

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To Buffstud,
Marriage is an abstract noun we made it up. And it has no meaning except for the one we gave it. This reason is only a reason to deny the rights of the gay people and without a good reason to back up this statement, its just a house with no bricks!
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 3:11 PM on July 5, 2005 | IP
JustineCredible

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Here we go...another religious nut with little information and a lot of suspicions. Time to help this poor soul out.


Quote from basouma13 at 10:29 AM on March 30, 2005 :
No, I think gay adoption shouldn’t be legal.
Religious is a reason prohibits gay marriage. [/qoute]


Hold on here a second.

Where does it say in the Bible that gays can't or shouldn't be married?
Which version are you getting this from?

Are you Christian? If so, why bother with Leviticus? Didn't the NT do away with Mosaic law?

Gay parents are not allowed to adopt children.



Only in certain states, usualy ones who have let the Christian-right (which is neither) influence state laws.

Homosexuality is immoral and that we should not put children into that environment.


Says who?

It’s what I believe in. there is no right to mix religion and politics.


But you're attempting to do it here.

There is an overwhelming weight of scientific evidence that homosexual lifestyle is harmful.


What exactly is a "homosexual lifestyle?"
Is it different than a suburban mom's lifestyle? Or a urban yuppy?

The gay lifestyle is a dangerous lifestyle for a child.


Yeah, that's why we have laws which prohibit sexual contact with children. Duh...

The child would be depressed,


Honey, where are you getting this?

have diseases,


I'm telling you, you really gotta quite sucking up to those "Focus on the Family" cronies, they only want your money.

would be violent and would be a gay parent when he grows up.



HOLY CRAPOLA!!! Are you trying to say that a child raised by gays would grow up to be gay?
Have you any common sence at all?

Sweetie, where do you think gays come from?
HETEROSEXUAL PARENTS!!
Don't be a dolt.


A young boy or girl will have to watch both of his/her fathers or mothers grow sick with AIDS and die within few months.


Wait here one second, how do two monogamous persons who do not have sex outside their committed relationship suddenly contract HIV?

You got some really wickedly perverse ideas there kiddo. I suggest you break out of that hovel and get a life. [/size=3]



[size=1](Edited by JustineCredible 7/6/2005 at 3:37 PM).


(Edited by JustineCredible 7/6/2005 at 3:39 PM).


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"All those who believe in physcokenetics ~ Raise My Hand!"
 


Posts: 24 | Posted: 3:35 PM on July 6, 2005 | IP
phate17

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Not only should gays not be allowed to marry they should not be allowed to perform there disgutin, unnatural and immoral homosexual behavoirs. They are almost as bad as the pedophiles they support. I support you thick it is all right for a grown man to have sex with a ten year old boy. Because thats where thes loose morals are leading.


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Michael
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 03:28 AM on July 15, 2005 | IP
rob74696

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Phate17,

I wonder how you don't get the same reaction when you read your post, That is one of the stupidst arguments i have ever had the displeasure of reading. To suggest that gays support pedophelia (in case you have trouble with the big words, that means PEOPLE who like to have sex with MINORS) just goes to show your obvious lack of understanding. i don't know anyone who thinks it is alright for a grown man to have sex with a 10 year old boy, just like it isn't alright for a grown man to have sex with a 10 year old GIRL either. they key phrase there is 10 YEAR OLD.
I see your post was enetered at 3:28 AM, do us all a favor, go get some sleep.

Rob


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Robert
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 11:34 PM on July 15, 2005 | IP
Dotzzz

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Personally i feel tat gay rights shld not be allowed n gay marriages shld nt exist. Its not an issue about being open or not. I c tat mani pple like 2 label others tat shake their head against gays, as conservative pple. I tink its more to the moral grounds n the risk of allowing such marriages. But since diff pple hab diff moral stands, i would like 2 add on 2 the "risk". Ok for example if 1 dae gay marriages r allowed. Wat makes u tink tat pple wun ask for marriages wif 3 or more pple involved? Like the idea of 2 husband 1 wife? U nvr know coz these pple hu refuse 2 follow the "norm" ways kip pushin the line of definition of marriage further. Then sooner or later, the idea behind a family would be slowly gone.

I would also like 2 sae tat gays r not born being a gay but more of influences from the surroundings. Maybe because they have sum kind of fear towards women n when man show them care, they misunderstood it as love. Like characters, i believe tat being a gay is not forced 2 be. Under the right counselling, 1 might change from being a gay 2 a straight guy, thus might solve the problem of them being discriminated.

Other than tat i also feel tat religion shld not be involved in state law n affairs as firstly not every1 believe in God or the existence of 1. Secondly, if religion is taken into consideration, wich religion should we allow n wich shld we not n how far shld we follow wat the religion sae? So in the end is the government or the churches/mosques/temples making the decision?
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 1:03 PM on August 25, 2005 | IP
77752

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I think this debate is getting messed up on both sides by misleading information.

If I wanted to support Gay Marriage, I could easily find a poll or piece of information that said That Heterosexuals are 99% more likely to abuse and moloest children than Homosexuals, that everyone who opposes Gay Marriage beats Homosexuals up for fun and that Homosexuals are all monogamous, law abiding citizens who couldn't harm a fly.

If I wanted to oppose Gay Marriage, I could find a poll or a piece of information that said Homosexuals are all child molesters, they all abuse children whereas only 0.01% of Heterosexuals are child molesters and that Homosexuals are all HIV Positive polygamous, sex-crazed, uncaring sex offenders who throw stones at anyone who does isn't friends with them.

People are too interested in their own benefit than that of others, if you want to prove your point, you'll find a piece of evidence that supports your beleif, more often than not, you won't even bother to find evidence that goes against your beleif, you won't collect evidence supporting both sides and compare them in a fair and decent manner, you won't look at your own evidence and think "maybe the guy who took this poll only took it in a place where people supported my beleifs" you won't look at opposing evidence and think "this guy did a fair test with people of varied beleifs", I'm overexaggerating a bit much there, but it drives me mad when I see people with "evidence" that's completely biased towards their beleifs.

Also, people need to understand their opposition as much as they understand themselves, I'm speaking like I'm an alien here, but there is a quality that the human race has, and it's called diversity, every human being is different in some way, I have big ears, my brother still sounds like he's a teenager with a broken voice, Homosexuals are just as physically and biologically likely to molest children as Heterosexuals, a phychological cause for wanting to molest children is extreme lack of sexual fulfilment from adults, this can be the case with Homosexuals and Heterosexuals, when giving evidence, it is sometimes difficult to chose between what is right and what is easy, it's easier to accept something simple and supportive of your views if you have the slightest inkling that it might be wrong in some way, than it is to accept something complicated and non-supportive of your views when it is quite obvious that it is correct, I enjoy watching a debate more than an arguement, a debate is a formal, peaceful discussion between multiple views where both views are fully respected by each other, an arguement is an aggressive, sometimes violent discussion between more than one view where the people try to prove the other wrong without paying attention to what the other has to say.

When a person like Dotzzz, phate17 and buffstud look at Homosexuals, they see a filthy, immoral, disgusting, repulsive, sickening piece of slime that doesn't have the right to do anything far beyond exist, that's a little overexaggerated, but that's generally what they see in a Homosexual, although I prefer not to personally offend another user on this thread, I see these sorts of people as the types that attack accused Homosexuals in back alleyways.

My brother was attacked on his way home from a Gay bar, he was walking down a quiet street at night time, when he was confronted by someone, he was found dead under a bridge by a river beaten and bruised with his testacles chopped off, it's not hard to imagine why he was killed, that's why I go on these forums, to try and talk sense into people who think that Homosexuals should be slaughtered without second thought, when I was talking about diversity, I meant that all people are different, whether Male, Female, Black, White, American, British, Chinese, French, Christian, Atheist, Hindu, Buddist, Interested in Rock music, computer mad, a gaming fanatic, a Geologist, a dentist, a trumpet player, Heterosexual, Bisexual, Homosexual, Transgender or anything else, people are all different, and just because they fall under a certain catagory, that does not mean they are wrong, people have reasons for doing everything, even terrorists have reasons for killing thousands of people, the world needs to practice understanding others instead of hating them.


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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 4:53 PM on September 3, 2006 | IP
bluelisa

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I find it very interesting that we took religion out of our school sytem, yet people use religion to say that gay people should not get married.

It seems to me that people only use god/religion when they feel it defends thier opinions. It is my understanding that the bible teachs us not to discriminate. Yet that is exactly what we are doing by saying who can or can not get married.

Marriage is simply the union of 2 people, regardless or race creed religion or sexuallity.
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 2:53 PM on October 7, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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What does taking the religion out of the school system have to do with a debate about marriage?  Plus, if you believe in God at all, you believe that he created woman to be a help-meet for man (not to be confused with "servant" that many people try to define the word as) and that "for that reason the man shall leave his parents and cling unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh".  Ergo, marriage was meant to be between HUSBAND and WIFE from the beginning.  I can decide to define the word "cow" as a small flightless, feathered animal.  That doesn't mean it is one.  


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:02 PM on October 8, 2006 | IP
Sabella

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Quote from buffstud at 9:50 PM on May 20, 2004 : It is wrong to think that such a small percentage of the worlds population (1 % of the population is gay) should be allowed to change what way more than half the world wants.


Out of pure curiosity, where did this statistic come from?


 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 6:07 PM on October 27, 2006 | IP
jenns

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Weren't we all naked in the beginning as well?

And we weren't educated, there was a million and one things we weren't aware of, we all had horrible diseases... etc etc etc

So basically you're saying that nothing should ever change?

Excellent plan. The world should definitely go backwards and we can all get a fatal disease that could have otherwise been cured with change and think the earth is flat. Hurrah.

As I've said before, I'm not a Christian, but I know that the bible promotes love, and does it actually affect you if people choose to find love with someone who you may not agree with?

If it does DIRECTLY affect you, then please explain how.

It all comes back to this "ooohhhh im better than everyone else because ive read the Bible everyone listen to me" selfish way of thinking.

Get on with your lives, and let everyone else get on with theirs without interfering.

And before you say it, NO im not condoning murder obviously there should be inteference when it comes to actual crime.

But that interference should most definitely not be carried out under the heavy influence of the Bible.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 3:09 PM on November 5, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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If I see you walking out in front of a truck, I would hope that I would have enough "love" as you put it to try and convince you that the truck is going to win.  If you think I"m going to condone it and start promoting the idea that people should throw themselves in front of a truck, then you are right, you're not a Christian.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 7:19 PM on November 5, 2006 | IP
jenns

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So your point here in answer to my question is.... if we allow gay mariage we'll all get hit by trucks?

I may be being totally stupid but can you please explain this?


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 08:22 AM on November 6, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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If you are doing something that can result in death (physical or spiritual) and someone else can see what is about to happen and fails to react then that person is help responsible, are they not?  Even in a court of law, if I have it within my power to stop a crime (let's say a homicide) and I do nothing, then I'm an accessory to that crime.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 09:17 AM on November 6, 2006 | IP
jenns

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Being in a mutual, loving relationship with another person is not a crime.

When someone is doing something that will physically harm themselves or another human being (or animal, plant and so on) then yes of course we should stop it I completely agree.

But spiritually? No. That's pushing your beliefs on others and I do not agree with that. You cannot punish me for not believing what you believe.

And since homosexuals are not killing anyone by simply living their lives in the way that makes them happiest without harming other people, then what exactly is the problem?



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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 09:38 AM on November 6, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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What if you believe that the truck can not harm you?  Is pushing you out of the way of the truck "pushing my beliefs" on you?  Just because YOU believe something NOT to be so, does not mean that it isn't.  


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 11:02 AM on November 6, 2006 | IP
jenns

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What planet do you live on?

Pushing me out of the way of a truck isn't a spiritual belief, it's simply common sense and is a world apart from saying that I could not be in a relationship with someone I love because your belief says that I can't.

I know there are trucks. I do not know there is a god. Do I need to go through the differences of a truck and christianity? because we could be here a while...


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 11:38 AM on November 6, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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No we wouldn't.  They are both true.  Certainly, you would think it much worse to spend an eternity in gehenna than to be hit by a truck.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 12:33 PM on November 6, 2006 | IP
jenns

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To you they are yes. But to me one is very much a story. Quite a good story, but a story nontheless that it now quite laughable. It's a bit like teaching Terry Pratchett as science isn't it (in case you are not familiar with him, he is an author who created a fictional world called "discworld" which happens to be a giant turtle). Maybe god is a giant turtle? Hmmm. There's a question.

Anyway, I digress, I don't know what gehenna is and I don't particular care as I really won't be losing any sleep over it trust me.

Let's bring the topic back... gay marriage. Give your opinions about some of previous statements?


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 2:21 PM on November 6, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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1) Gay marriage is an oxymoron.  The dictionary defines it as the union between a man and a woman.  All this junk about the Constitution and what the founder's meant by certain things is absurd as it's quite obvious that they would never have conceived of a time when people didn't know what the word meant.  They obviously overestimated future generations.

2) Legalizing something condones it.  Christians can't condone things like sodomy, incest, murder, stealing, pedophelia, etc.  Any time someone tries to legalize these things, then we will stand against it.  

3) There is no historical, physical, or archaelogical evidence supporting the idea of discworld (although it would be cool to have that sort of luggage).


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 3:26 PM on November 6, 2006 | IP
jenns

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It's this horrific thing called change again isn't it. Why do you think there should be strict guidlines in place forever that don't allow for any exception or growth?

Right. So basically you think that people should be stopped from being able to love, marry, and generally be all round content. Thus leaving a significant percentage of the world's population deeply emotionally unstable, unhappy and possibly suicidal.

That is obviously a much better option.

Haha, i love the way you talk about murder, paedophilia, stealing etc and casually drop in sodomy like it actually matches the rest of those things. If a gay couple have sex, it's slightly different to being murdered, or sexually abusing a child isn't it? Because it is only the mutual couple involved, no-one else is being harmed. No-one is making you watch it, or take part, or even be aware it is going on. So where is the problem? Even if they are condemning themselves to hell, why should this concern you? It's up to them, no?

So do you think evolution and the idea of the "big bang" theory have a sufficient claim to be true, because there is plenty of evidence there, much much much more so than the bible.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 04:04 AM on November 7, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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First, you have obviously never read the bible or looked at any of the secular evidence that backs it up.  Ignorance on purpose is such a sad thing.

Second, sin is a sin.  You're idea that if someone else is condemning themselves to hell it shouldn't concern me is like my suggestion that someone walking out into traffic shouldn't concern me either.  Hundreds (if not thousands) of murders go unsolved each year because people "mind their own business".  Many of these could probably even be avoided.  If you'd ever read a bible, you'd know that a Christian can not turn a blind eye to the world.  You should try it sometime.  At least then you wouldn't be making an argument out of ignorance.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 08:40 AM on November 7, 2006 | IP
jenns

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I am not ignorant. Because my humanist, liberal way of thinking allows me to see people as equals and to recognise their rights as human beings as well as believing in the freedom of choice and speech. And to stand up until my death for the right of the person to not be restricted in the way they live their life (unless, again, it harms others) instead of endlessly preaching and attempting to limit and restrict peoples rights due to something that doesn't exist.

Human's i know exist. That is why they are more important than any god to me.

I'll still fight for YOUR right to say and do what you please as long as it does not harm others, even if I think you're talking utter b****ks.

Which, by the way, you are, but thats besides the point.

So ignorance is not having read the bible, that would make people a hell of a lot more intelligent and wordly and cultured etc than you very ignorant indeed. Which I'm afraid just does not make a great deal of sense except in the warped world of christianity.

I have never looked at any "evidence" because I have yet to see any, if there was any substantial evidence like there is for actual science then I would most definitely look at it.

"ignorance:the lack of knowledge or education"

have you ever talked to a homosexual man about his experience of being gay? Do you know what actually occurs in a gay relationship? do you know how it feels to grow up in fear because you are not accepted? do you know why people are so proud to be gay?

If not, then you cannot call yourself open and educated just because you have read the bible.

all of your knowledge comes from the bible. of course, you have learned other things on the way, but your values and everything else come from there. Mine come from everywhere, i do not have a set of beliefs that i follow, i am open to any sort of idea and so on. I have a wide mix of friends, people that have had abortions, gay people, straight people, bisexuals, black, white, asian, christian, muslim....

And yet I'm ignorant.

YOU are blind.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 09:23 AM on November 7, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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You assume because I do not support homosexuality that I am ignorant of it.  How naive.  I've known many homosexual people.  That doesn't mean I agree with their choices.  If I have any ignorance on the subject it is not because I categorically refuse to research the subject.  Yet you have made up your mind about Christianity without ever taking any steps to educate yourself on the matter.  There's a difference between being "blind" as you call it and walking around with your eyes intentionally shut.  Open them up.  You just might see something.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 09:58 AM on November 7, 2006 | IP
jenns

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I am judging your form of Christianity. I do not enjoy being bitter about others beliefs and do not normally go around giving my view on it but when christian views are pushed in my face and begin to become a threat to other humans i find it incredibly hard to be otherwise. I am aware that not all christians are like this, but when i see christians murdering abortion doctors, threatening to kill homosexuals and standing on roads with deeply offensive signs aimed at homosexuals or women or a certain ethnic minority, belief etc what sort of opinion do you think im going to get about christians?

and when i see christians on here arguing to take away people's rights as human beings in whatever context because of something in the bible, what sort of assumptions do you think i am going to make about christians?

I don't like being like that, because the one person i know who is christian (and bi) is lovely, and doesnt go around preaching the bible constantly. He's proud of his belief, and he has every right to be, but he RESPECTS that other people do not feel the same way. And due to his sexual orientation is very open in his beliefs.

Yes. So there you go.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 1:13 PM on November 7, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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How are we "taking away" a right that doesn't exist?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 1:44 PM on November 7, 2006 | IP
jenns

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Um... I'm pretty sure people have a right to be in a relationship with whoever they want.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 2:51 PM on November 7, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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The United States does not ban homosexual relationships.  Perhaps you are confusing us with Iran.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 3:17 PM on November 7, 2006 | IP
jenns

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What are you taling about? I KNOW the US doesnt ban homosexual relationships, when did I say that they did? Maybe you got confused but what actually said was:

"...when i see christians on here arguing to take away people's rights as human beings in whatever context because of something in the bible, what sort of assumptions do you think i am going to make about christians?"

I mean some Christians believe that this right should be taken away, not that they already have taken it away.

And perhaps the US and Iran have more in common than you think in regards to their leaders...

"America is now seen as a threat to world peace by its closest neighbours and allies, according to an international survey of public opinion published today that reveals just how far the country's reputation has fallen among former supporters since the invasion of Iraq.
Carried out as US voters prepare to go to the polls next week in an election dominated by the war, the research also shows that British voters see George Bush as a greater danger to world peace than either the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, or the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Both countries were once cited by the US president as part of an "axis of evil", but it is Mr Bush who now alarms voters in countries with traditionally strong links to the US."

Oops. My mistake, there is a difference... America's leader is considered more dangerous.



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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 3:50 PM on November 7, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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What are you taling about? I KNOW the US doesnt ban homosexual relationships, when did I say that they did?

[/b]How are we "taking away" a right that doesn't exist?

[b]Um... I'm pretty sure people have a right to be in a relationship with whoever they want.


When I asked HOW we were taking away a right you stated that people have a right to be in a relationship with whomever they want.  Ergo, by your answer, this is the right you thought we were taking away.  This is not a right that is being taken away.  Perhaps you are confused by your own answer.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 7:37 PM on November 7, 2006 | IP
jenns

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NO my reply was: "I mean some Christians believe that this right should be taken away, not that they already have taken it away."

What the point in my writing back to your statements if you do not even read what I have said?


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 07:59 AM on November 9, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Well, since I CUT & PASTED your reply and you can scroll up to see that it is VERBATIM, then I'm sure you know that that is NOT what you said (that's what you said after I commented on your original statement), but go on, keep the lie alive.

After all, if you'd read the rest of my post after my cut and pastes you would know very well what I was referring to, but apparently that's too taxing.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 7:53 PM on November 9, 2006 | IP
jenns

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Right. Ok.

You said: How are we "taking away" a right that doesn't exist?

Which I took as meaning that the right to be in a homosexual relationship does not exist, according to your beliefs, what you think etc etc.

Therefore I replied: Um... I'm pretty sure people have a right to be in a relationship with whoever they want.

Then you started going on about how the US doesn't ban homosexual relationships which I already knew, therefore I replied: I mean some Christians believe that this right should be taken away, not that they already have taken it away.

Because I thought that this is what you were initially implying.

So get your facts right before you start getting all snotty.

"keep the lie alive" you are quite the little drama queen arent you.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 3:46 PM on November 10, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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That still doesn't make any sense.  We're talking about gay marriage, not gay relationships.  Now, while it is true that sodomy (and cohabitation, for that matter) laws are still on the books in many states, they are rarely enforced (and only when it's aimed at prostitution, to the best of my knowledge).  Homosexuality is a sin, there's no denying that, but we aren't trying to throw homosexuals in jail.  We're simply saying that marriage, by definition, has nothing to do with homosexuality and vice versa.  Since homosexuals do not have the right to marry, we aren't arguing to remove a right.  


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 4:55 PM on November 10, 2006 | IP
jenns

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Sorry when I said gay relationship, I meant marriage as well.

Basically what I mean is, Christians want homosexuals to not have the same freedom as other straight people. In that they cannot marry.

"the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce);"

I think marriage has lost its value, but if you want to do it to show your unity and love as a couple then why not?

When homosexuals marry, it is not going to be in a church by a priest, therefore I really do not see what is wrong with it I really don't.

And many of the dictionary definitions of marriage have been changed now. This is surely a sign of moving forward and seeing everyone as equals. Which is always a good thing.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 06:53 AM on November 11, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Odd, I always thought lowering the standards was moving backwards, not forwards.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 10:07 AM on November 11, 2006 | IP
jenns

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Accepting people for who they are, especially when it is for something as important to someones life like their sexual orientation, can only be moving forwards can it not?

Changing something that has been there for centuries to accept the modern world is moving forward, is it not?


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 2:51 PM on November 11, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Ah, so you're one of those people who believe in a "gay" gene.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 3:12 PM on November 11, 2006 | IP
jenns

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Please explain.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 7:11 PM on November 11, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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You believe sexual depravity is biological, not psychological.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 7:35 PM on November 11, 2006 | IP
    
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