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jenns

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"Sexual depravity"?

I thought we were talking about homosexuals.

And no, I do not believe in the gay gene, I believe it is unexplainable who we fall in love with, what we are attracted to (sexually, mentally and so on).

If you ask someone why they love their partner, they will not say "because he's a man" or "because she's a woman", they will list the qualities that person has that they like. Therefore, it does not matter if you are gay, straight, bi or whatever, as long as you are in a mutual and happy relationship.

I really do not understand how anyone can condemn someone for simply having consensual sex or being in a relationship or a marriage.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 06:07 AM on November 12, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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That's because you're an atheist.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 09:03 AM on November 12, 2006 | IP
jenns

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Yes. But above everything else a humanist, I believe that the rights of the human are the most important thing and need protecting.


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 10:37 AM on November 12, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Who then gets to define what are "rights" and what aren't.  The Declaration of Independence (I know, American, not worldwide) specifically states that our "rights" were endowed by our Creator.  Therefore, it is impossible (in America) to speak of rights without looking at them from our Creator's point of view.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 4:24 PM on November 12, 2006 | IP
jenns

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But this was at a time where religion ruled, where people were predominantly Christian because they have little of the science and information that we have today, and so on and so forth. If it was written today, it would not include this statement because Christianity no longer dominates. Similarly, the declaration only states that men are created equal and allowed to institute governments, women are not mentioned, so are we also to believe that this is true?

it states that these rights are "self evident", therefore, they existed before the declaration of independence. So, depending on what you believe, when human beings were formed/created we HAD these rights. they were not simply apparent as soon as the declaration was written.

Interstingly, while on the subject, the declaration states that we have "certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.... whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

so, if gay marriage is banned, we can overthrow the government? hurrayyy!


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theres no fun in fundamentalism
 


Posts: 64 | Posted: 10:09 AM on November 13, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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It says you have the right to pursue happiness, nothing in there guaranteeing you will attain it.  We don't let pedophile's pursue their happiness, do we?  I'd like to be able to fly.  That'd make me happy.  Human beings can't fly (not on their own anyhow) so this is impossible.  Marriage is the union between a man and a woman.  Gay's can't marry by the very definition of the word.  You can argue that the definition can be changed and by the same token I can change the definition of flying to jumping and then I'd be able to fly, but it wouldn't really be flying, now would it?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 8:46 PM on November 14, 2006 | IP
K8

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Marriage is a legally defined word. Unlike most other basic words within the English language (such as 'fly'), whose definitions are such as they cannot be altered by popular opinion, the word 'marriage' may indeed be redefined as including the union of those within homosexual relationships.

We just have to make people realise that allowing gay marriage hurts no one, while disallowing it does.

People have to get over their own unjustified intolerance of homosexuality in order for society to better itself by allowing homosexual relationships to be recognised as legitimite under the law.

There is no justification in allowing religion to influence such laws, and I'm ashamed of those governments that allow it to do so, including my own.
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 02:30 AM on November 18, 2006 | IP
SilverStar

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Quote from K8 at 02:30 AM on November 18, 2006 :
Marriage is a legally defined word. Unlike most other basic words within the English language (such as 'fly'), whose definitions are such as they cannot be altered by popular opinion, the word 'marriage' may indeed be redefined as including the union of those within homosexual relationships.

We just have to make people realise that allowing gay marriage hurts no one, while disallowing it does.

People have to get over their own unjustified intolerance of homosexuality in order for society to better itself by allowing homosexual relationships to be recognised as legitimite under the law.

There is no justification in allowing religion to influence such laws, and I'm ashamed of those governments that allow it to do so, including my own.



It does hurt children that are adopted by a homosexual pair. There are curtain things that separate men form women. For instance it is a womans instinct to protect her child at all cost, it is also a womans instinct to nurture. Men do not necessarily have that instinct.


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 08:59 AM on February 7, 2007 | IP
K8

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Yes, I'm sure any father out there'd tell you he would abandon his child/ren at the drop of a hat just because he's not female and doesn't feel the natural urge or instinct to care, nurture and protect them. No child brought up by a man or men has ever grown up to be undamaged. Yes, I can so see your point...

All sarcasm aside, where exactly do you have your proof that children are hurt if adopted by a homosexual pair (of men, I assume)? Does this also count for women who are homosexual?


 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 01:10 AM on February 14, 2007 | IP
rockclimber_10

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The Declaration of Independence specifically states that our "rights" were endowed by our Creator.  Therefore, it is impossible (in America) to speak of rights without looking at them from our Creator's point of view.

It can be debated as how our Creator looks at homosexuality (which, by the way, many believe was not known about in Biblical times. Man laying with another man, in Biblical times, in believed to mean a heterosexual man laying with a heterosexual man). But it shouldn't matter how our Creator views homosexuality because the framers of our constitution weren't writing the bill of rights as if from our Creator's point of view. Laws are not (or should not) to be written with consideration to any religion.

This won't be an issue in 10 years.

National Gallup Poll
"Do you think marriages between homosexuals should or should not be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages?"

1996 - 27% should be 68% should not be 5% unsure
2006 - 39% should be 58% should not be 4% unsure


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"God is most certainly not threatened by science; He made it all possible...science is not threatened by God; it is enhanced"
 


Posts: 52 | Posted: 10:24 AM on February 14, 2007 | IP
EMyers

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This won't be an issue in 10 years.

National Gallup Poll
"Do you think marriages between homosexuals should or should not be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages?"

1996 - 27% should be 68% should not be 5% unsure
2006 - 39% should be 58% should not be 4% unsure


If you are implying that it won't be an issue because in 10 years more people will be for it than against it, then by the same logic, it shouldn't be an issue now.  More people are against it than for it.  How do percentages keep "it" from being an issue?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 1:34 PM on February 14, 2007 | IP
Aino-Ailill

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Quote from EMyers at 8:46 PM on November 14, 2006 :
It says you have the right to pursue happiness, nothing in there guaranteeing you will attain it.  We don't let pedophile's pursue their happiness, do we?


Because in their pursuance of this 'happiness', they cause harm to another, they infringe on another's right. Homosexual marriage cannot for this reason be compared to pedophilia in this instance unless you can show how it is harmful and/or how it infringes on a person's rights.





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The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments.
 


Posts: 12 | Posted: 8:22 PM on February 14, 2007 | IP
handsomeman

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Wow, I am suprised by how many just nieve people are on this forum.  Buffstud, I read about 1 sentence of what you read for 1reason, it was that I could immediatly tell it was all bull.  to you people who think gays are a menace to society and are dangerous sinners, are all over-religious morons.  Get real people, its not like they are going to bulid a gay bomb to kill us all.
 


Posts: 13 | Posted: 11:26 PM on February 14, 2007 | IP
EMyers

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As opposed to under-religious?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 10:03 AM on February 15, 2007 | IP
KandyBin

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Well ... First of all to all the people who were quoting the Bible....You completely forgot to mention where it says NOT to judge, because that is something that only God can do. You dont know that He wont let a gay person into heaven....The only unforgivable sin is blasphamy . Another point that i would like to make is that people often are grossed out by gays/lesbians because they think its all sexual and perverted....and really it isnt. I have seen PLENTY of straight couples who are horrible to each other...DIVORCE for example....Why should I support straight marriage when divorce is happening left and right??? I mean come on...saying how a child could get a desease from having gay parents???REALLY??? How STUPID to say so...I have seen many things on abuse in straight peoples homes....Kids get abused left and right, kids are niglected, kids are exposed to so much in this world, and that is inside heterosexual family. How can all of you think of yourself as good people when you dont give other people respect....RACE,SEXUAL ORIENTATION, RELIGION etc...shouldnt matter ....We are all human beings....And who knows, but God, whats wrong and whats right....Ughhh it makes me very very sad to see how people treat others. Oh and to finish this off....did you know that even tho some states allow same sex marriage, they still dont give FULL amount of right to us....Its just stupid how everyone can sit here and say how its horrible and bad and unnatural and BLAH BLAH BLAH....How would it personaly affect any of you if me and my partner went and got married right now??? You dont even know these people....They are probably way more compashionable....loving...forgiving. I know i am. Im sorry if a lot of this doesnt make sence, im bad at this...But im sure you can get the point....I believe that EVERYONE has equal rights....EVERYONE!!!


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PEACE & LOVE
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 04:46 AM on September 5, 2008 | IP
KandyBin

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There are some gay couples that have been together for twenty years...and all they wanna do is get married....Just to celebrate their love for one another...There are also straight couples that know eachother for a year, get married, live together for 5 years, have 2 children, and then DIVORCE...Break up families!!!


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PEACE & LOVE
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 04:56 AM on September 5, 2008 | IP
liquidmotion

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Buffstud... you believe god created marriage, that god created man. fine good for you. theres so many flaws in your argument i dont know where to begin. im spiritual and my belief in god is different to a catholic version. How do you know god would not approve of gay marriage? if god created me and im not gay, then being gay is natural. Where does it say in the bible that being gay is wrong? just an fyi it also says if a woman marries and isnt a virgin she should be stoned to death see Deuteronomy 22:13-29, it also says thou shalt not kill. contradictory much? the ability to recognise right and wrong is inherant in the person, but only to those who make up their own minds. if you follow a church or a religion to the letter, you loose independant thought and become blinded through others that feed off your desire for goodness. so which is it, stone the woman or thou shalt not kill? and abomination is used to describe virtually everything. so youre saying a child should have a mother and a father hmm so if a woman is pregnant and through some misfortune her husband dies, then are you saying the child should be taken off her and given to a married couple? It certainly seems that way, you did say a child needs the influence of mother and father. are you also saying single people should not be allowed to adopt? Legal unions, marriage should be recognised by state for homosexuals as well because we are all equal and free to choose. im not even vaguely interested in whether or not youre happy about it. people like you made me want to kill myself in school, then i copped on and saw that it was their problem not mine. i have a right to be happy. i have a right to a lifelong relationship thats just as valid in the eyes of the state (fair enough not the church, thats a religious group and doesnt concern the issue of equality) as a heterosexual marriage


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liquidmotion
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 6:58 PM on September 22, 2009 | IP
    
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