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HumanBeing

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Homosexuality is a DISORDER.

It is important for the homosexual to work to resolve this personal challenge.


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Posts: 11 | Posted: 8:42 PM on July 14, 2004 | IP
Lisa_b

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Er, homosexuality was removed from the register of psychiatric disorders 25 years ago. Your opinion on homosexuality is not a basis for real scientific knowledge, no matter what you think.

Lisab
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 4:52 PM on July 16, 2004 | IP
HumanBeing

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The APA is some organization that possesses some opinion...

If the APA once stated- to the effect:

The APA now encourages psychologists not to necessarily label all instances of adult/child sex as "abuse" or "molestation" -- labels that only serve to lend a victim mentality to something that may be completely natural and harmless.

And then later the APA changed its position to:

For example, a recent meta-analysis published in a journal of the American Psychological Association (APA) suggested that not all adult/child sexual encounters were detrimental to the children involved. Political pressure resulted in an APA statement repudiating the conclusions of the research. As this quote from a letter from the APA to a Congressman:

'Clearly, the article included opinions of the authors that are inconsistent with APA's stated and deeply held positions on child welfare and protection issues. It is the position of the Association that sexual activity between children and adults should never be considered or labeled as harmless or acceptable.'

The APA also announced that that in the future they would consider the social impact as well as the scientific validity of the research they considered for publication. When it appears that the oppressed might win a round, the rules are suddenly changed.

This change- apparently, was due to significant political and popular forces- aka common sense.

It is clear for anyone with an appropriate form of common sense...

Homosexuality is a DISORDER.


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Posts: 11 | Posted: 3:05 PM on July 17, 2004 | IP
Lisa_b

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Quote from HumanBeing at 3:05 PM on July 17, 2004 :
The APA is some organization that possesses some opinion...

So, your opinion is more credible than their opinion? LOL...Show some proof that genuine psychologists actually believe this. The American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association and every major psychological/medical organizations in America disagree with you. Homosexuality is not a disorder, plain and simple. Gays are able to live happy fulfilling healthy lives. Wheras studies have shown that forcing them to repress their sexual orientation leads to depression and suicidal tendencies. The only disasters that occur are coming from homophobia, not homosexuality.

BTW, adult/child sex is illegal. No one is arguing that. There is no law against homosexual behaviour. What is your point?



(Edited by Lisa_b 7/19/2004 at 02:12 AM).
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 01:16 AM on July 19, 2004 | IP
greenbabygirl

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So, human being, do you classify homosexuals in the same category with other mental disorders, such as schizofrenia, bi-polar, manic depressive, and so on and so on?
Homosexuals are not a danger to themselves or society, they are able to love and tell right from wrong, so I'm not sure they can even near classify as any kind of disorder.
I mean, you have a right to your opinion and all, and I respect that, but you have got to be able to back it up, and not with some out of date psychology references.


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To Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for all
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 4:18 PM on July 19, 2004 | IP
HumanBeing

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The reference to the APA is to show that the APA is only an organization of individuals offering some opinion. The point is that whether opinions are offered by organizations/groups of individuals or opinions are offered by only one individual, the fact remains that it is only opinion. APA, AMA, and every other major organization... Whatever... Whomever... It's all just opinion.

Some people have the impression that all it takes is for some official organization to take a position- which is only expressing an opinion- for some opinion to be transformed into reality. This is a mistaken impression.

Of course, it makes absolute sense for a homosexual in denial that homosexuality is a disorder to have some impression that they're A-OK and- likely- they will seek any and all ways to support/justify their vision/lifestyle.

Of course, there's quite a lot to this issue...

Here's an offering of a unique point of view/aka opinion for consideration:

By Roy Masters

The question of whether or not homosexuality is a matter of birth is an extremely sensitive subject.  The topic invokes strong emotion and prejudice, no matter which side one takes.  Like abortion, it seems to be one of America’s unsolvable problems.  To understand the causes of homosexuality, a great deal of objectivity and compassion is required.

As with so many other forms of aberrant behavior, we are dealing with victims in denial; it is always who they are.  The very concept of gay pride was, of course, an imitation of racial minorities’ call for ethnic pride in the ‘60s.  However, the difference between the two is obvious to most Americans.  One is simply a racial matter, while the other is behavioral.  The problem is that the homosexual denial of their collective guilt has formed into a dangerous political power to convince the world that criticism of homosexuality is racist.  To make that stick, they must monkey with our sanity by standing common sense on its head. They must convince the public that their condition is one of birth and that their inclinations have nothing to do with upbringing or moral choice.

The truth boils down to the difficulty of breaking free from their vice-like grip of buried trauma conditioning.  Having not known any identity other than the one conditioned from birth, they are fierce loyalists to the implanted one.

Sickness and Denial

Rather than face the painful truth about their troubled childhood, homosexuals are drawn, just as their parents were, to the familiar tormenting natures of who originally caused their pain.  Denial is the typical defense for all sins, because when we are wrong it is the very first impulse that awakens.

The entire gay movement is waging a dangerous cultural war that will have disastrous consequences.  Such unhealthy support groups proliferate and confound the youth while exploiting their members with false compassion.  Troubled individuals are cannon fodder, getting nothing but enslaving compassion and rationalizations as cures.  These organizations are endeavoring to conquer their collective guilt by way of demoralizing the youth. Better to upset the socio-political structure and change how the world sees them rather than face their deformed selves.

The average person is unaware of the depth and breadth that childhood traumas have on their adult behavior.  Never underestimate the range of effects parents have on their children, and exponentially, their children’s children.  If we take a moment to think about it, we can all remember how vulnerable we were, surrounded by a towering crushing adult world. Our parents were our gods; they represented the only protection against a confusing and dangerous world.  Alas, that betrayal has caused the downfall of every civilization.

When dealing with any trauma, it is important to understand that it is a scientific, repeatable phenomenon calledConditioned Reflex Response, discovered and made famous by the Russian psychologist, Ivan Pavlov.  In Pavlov’s groundbreaking experiment, a dog learns to associate the ringing of a bell with food; soon he salivates at the sound even when there is no food present.  As in Pavlov’s experiments, the homosexual’s compulsive behavior becomes a lifestyle. Deploying this lifestyle against the nuclear family will bring down any free nation.

For this reason we should all compare our own compulsive behaviors with homosexual family conditioning.

There is one basic cause for most all inhuman suffering, just different suggestions and circumstances introduced through the cruelty of trauma. Since all of us have these experiences, manifesting in odd ways, then perhaps just seeing that might help us to have compassion for the homosexuals’ dilemma.

Patterns

In many years of counseling, I have dealt with countless family situations conforming to the following example:

Two boys are born into a dysfunctional family, composed of a cruel, confusing mother, and a brutal father (perhaps an alcoholic) who is rarely at home.  Mother’s resentment toward the father is unloaded on these boys.  Her unconscious hatred of men, beginning with her alcoholic father, projects and traumatizes both sons.  Because of their different character dispositions, the stronger one rebels from her control, while the weaker conforms.  Both boys, traumatized in the extreme, can no longer live from the identities with which they were born.

Fathers and Sons

Homosexuality is a developmental problem that is usually the result of problems in family relations, particularly between father and son.  Because of failure with father, the boy does not fully internalize male gender-identity and develops homosexually.  This is the most commonly seen clinical model.

Joseph Nicolosi, Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality, 1991.

'There are many types of family dysfunctional disorders.  One of them is overt homosexuality.  The other extreme from the same maternal presence, manifests as machismo, a false masculinity--- actually a compensation for feelings of vulnerability and latent femininity.  One brother becomes effeminate while the other grows up to be the average, culturally normal, but angry man.'

Beneath the surface, both boys will carry a great deal of resentment unconsciously assuming the passive or aggressive identities of one or the other parent.

Abnormal Choices

Mother’s effect on her rebellious son makes him side with his errant father.  In such an emotional state, where common sense goes out of the window and there’s more heat than light, there are only two lifestyle options available; rebel against your father and join your mother—or rebel against your mother and side with your father.  Both are abnormal choices.

So one errant son, sides with his angry father rather than take on the identity of his mother the way his effeminate brother did.  Again, just as his weak brother imbibed a false femininity, so the rebel ingests a false masculinity.   The macho brother brings forth the various traits of his father by imitation —perhaps his father lifts weights, drinks and talks tough.  This bogus identity is also adopted as being who he is.

The question is, why would he, or anyone, continue in denial. The answer is that they do not know that they are!   That is why no one ever succeeds in his or her rebellion, instead, like it or not, they tend to transmogrify imperceptibly into the likeness of what they hate.  The reason for this is simple; you cannot hate without feeling guilt —and you especially cannot hate your parents without guilt.  The guilt is unconsciously relieved through bonding with, or running from, the hate object and then bonding with ‘compassionate’ friends.

The macho son is escaping the pursuing shame of seeing what he has secretly become at the hands of his willful mother. The childhood bonding has affected him more than he can ever admit.  Clinically, the rule of thumb is, reject your father and, no matter what, you will become overly influenced by mother and then women.

Sadly, so many young boys are losing their grip on their masculinity as well as the carefree American way.  Simply, it is the mother’s instinctive responsibility to nurture the children, to protect them from the harsh realities of the world that they are too young to face.  On the other hand, the father’s intuitive responsibility is to bring the children into the reality of the world, to save them from being smothered, weak and spoiled.

Mother should be earthy and compassionate; father, a kindly no-nonsense type with a gentle, firm, no-nonsense masculine touch.  Without dad’s modifying love, the child is in danger of becoming ruined, immorally wild and anti-social.  If the child becomes more interested in comfort than in challenge, more interested in rights than in responsibility, he will soon become part of the mob needing a dictator in one form or another to govern him, his capacity for self-governance having been feminized and displaced.  This is how all nations fall.

Lack of Balance

Without that noble father figure, the macho, hard-drinking son runs away (through women) from realizing that he is reinforcing that feminine core.  Mothering women nurture the implanted gestating feminine seed.  Still tied to women, lovers perpetuate the ruination of manhood, eating away at the facade of machismo.

More directly mired to his mother’s will is the appeasing effeminate son.  Since he is the extension of her personality, he is under a compulsion to validate his mother’s identity in him by re-immersing himself in her approval.  This is the classic denial process; we all tend to reaffirm the wrong in us by identifying with the very type of people who corrupted us.  Here, mother and son are usually very close.  This son is one of two types; if he retains his male behavior, he will be a weak and ineffective father, a womanizer and a mother of a husband to some unfortunate wife − or else he will become an outright homosexual.  Emasculating women embrace their own identities lurking in all effeminate men made over in the image of females – even voting them into office.

The rebel and the conformist are both victims.

The reason why most parents treat their offspring so shamefully is they tend to act out what was done to them. Oblivious of their past and living in denial they continue the family legacy as corruptors of the innocent.

Homosexual groups have always claimed that there are two distinct types of homosexuals, one actual and one latent.  As I said before, some men transform more directly into the female.

The rebel can also become a homosexual through a longer struggle of denying his feminine nature through an excess of female pleasures. A married man can go to bed one night crowing like a proud rooster and awaken one morning cackling like a hen.  The identity metamorphism once completed, breaks through the facade of machismo and all at once, he begins to think and feel like a woman… and then looks at men through a women’s eyes.

Child Abuse and Lesbianism

There are special needs that little girls have that make them unique.  When those needs are denied, ignored, or exploited, the future womanhood of that child is in jeopardy.

Just how are those needs denied, ignored, or exploited?  Abuse can be overt, as in physical or sexual abuse, or it may be more subtle.  Of course, its more subtle versions wouldn’t legally qualify as child abuse, but they are forms of abuse nonetheless, and they have far-reaching consequences.  One of those consequences is a distorted sexual identity.  I have seen, time and again, clear connections between early abuse and confusion in sexuality.  And I cannot ignore the histories of the many women I’ve known who have survived one form of abuse or another and are also attracted to other women. Although abuse by itself does not cause lesbianism, it can certainly be found in the background of many lesbian women and has in many cases been a contributing factor to their orientation.

Carol Ahrens in Desires in Conflict, 1991.

'Driven by rage denial, the rebel goes on to lose himself in machismo behavior, boxing, bodybuilding in a vain attempt to deny the implanted gestating feminine.  He is now bound to conquer his woman-fixation and fears with anger. The incidence of rape-rage fulfillment has risen staggeringly. High school boys readily admit that they would rape (sex as conquest instead of slavery) if they knew they wouldn’t be caught.'

The trouble is that a man rarely comes back in marriage as a real man —independent and ready to lead.  Rather, he comes back to the woman as a little boy needing his mom.  In spite of all the nurturing illusions of becoming more of a man in control, he experiences nothing but emasculation, just like his brother and father.  Sensing the loss of masculinity can throw him into fits of violence and verbal or physical abuse.  Then he runs and hides, drinking and hanging out with the boys.

As moths to a flame are men drawn to women just like those who helped shape their fathers.  If, as I said, the process continues to completion, dad wakens one morning with a feminine identity emerging from the chrysalis of machismo that can no longer contain it.

Emerging Homosexuality

The female nature and spirit eventually breaks through all compensations.  That is why we so often see muscle-bound, athletic men become homosexuals, long after apparently normal relationships with women.  The machismo compensator is addicted to an angry life of denying the implanted femininity.

Some enjoy apparent success for many years, only to awaken one day as a full-fledged homosexual.  At that time he ceases resisting the forces working within him and does an about-face. The rebel, who formally loathed his feminine nature, now becomes its cheerleader.  At that point, of course, the gay rights organizations rush in to glory in the poor fellows’ awakening.

There it is in a nutshell-- hurters and rescuers.  The violator -- the abusive or weak parent and all those compassionate supporters, are the same in principle and in spirit.  Therein lies the terrible danger concerning the treacherous motives of allcompassionate nurturers.

The imbalance of too much mothering and not enough real fathering did both sons in.  Millions of abused and neglected sons, who are not homosexuals, live out their entire lives in deep conflict and torment, with difficult relationships with their wives. At times, they commit violence against women as a way of getting even with their mothers for their enslaving embraces.   Off they go swinging like monkeys by their prehensile tails from one bed to another, never able to commit to a marital relationship based on respect and loyalty because they fear the loving control.

Problems with Masculinity

As far back as a December 4, 1989 Time magazine cover article, “Onward Women,” the reporter made a startling admission:  “Already, there are numerous signs that male attitudes and values are becoming ‘feminized,’ though most men might reject that description.”

She was right, of course on two counts.  Men have become more feminized, especially the younger ones, and most menwould object to that description because it hits too close to home.  The chilling thing is that the Time reporter meant it positively.

Our nation is in great trouble for the lack of enlightened fathers.  Where there is no real father, a weak or violent one, or none at all, the mother inevitably fills the void.  Thus, when identity springs dominantly from the female, it results in terrible conflicts for boys and problems for women.

If, as a nation, we can get fathers to understand this, we can return the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers where they belong.  Women will no longer have to shoulder the burden of raising children alone. With the well-balanced American family unit back together again, the feminization of America will end.  Families can become strong and loving again, and the country can head off its inevitable downfall.



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HumanBeing
 


Posts: 11 | Posted: 2:15 PM on July 20, 2004 | IP
btimsah1

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Let me go ahead and destroy you're ignorance above.

I'm gay, and I was never once molested or abused by anyone.  Ever.

The trash you wrote above is nothing but an over-complicated diatribe of nonsense one would have to believe to justify their anti-gay feelings.

I am gay because I was born without a sexual attraction to the opposite sex.  NO OTHER REASON.

-Robby


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"You're Bias Decides You're Opinion About Everything".
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 01:16 AM on July 29, 2004 | IP
fallingisfun

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I also am gay.  I have not had any sexual or physical abuse in my life.  I grew up around several members of both sexes and have had sex with both males and females.

Just turns out the guys don't do it for me.

What am I gonna do?
Not going to go seek help for a "disorder" that doesn't prevent me from living a healthy and wonderful life.


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Don't take life so seriously, you won't make it out alive.
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 11:04 AM on August 5, 2004 | IP
JustineCredible

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So, who is this wack-job: Roy Masters? Not the British Talk show host? The one who is no less contravercial than say: Dr. Laura Schlessinger? Hmmm..

Give me a break!
The guy is a nut job.

Homosexuality is NOT a disorder, it's not an illness and it is not a sickness, in any way, shape or form.
I would suggest you stop reading Exodus International crap, and start learning to deal with your xenophobia.


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"All those who believe in physcokenetics ~ Raise My Hand!"
 


Posts: 24 | Posted: 02:22 AM on August 9, 2004 | IP
joebrummer

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So, if it is a disorder, how do you propose that be dealt with.    Should homosexuals fallunder the ADA?   Can we call out of work, gay?   Are we able to collect SSDI for our disorder?


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Posts: 29 | Posted: 12:03 AM on September 29, 2004 | IP
Re-DefeatBush04

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Quote from HumanBeing at 8:42 PM on July 14, 2004 :
Homosexuality is a DISORDER.

It is important for the homosexual to work to resolve this personal challenge.

This is the 21st century, and homosexuality has been removed from the list of mantal disorders. Apparently, you have the disorder that i like to call IGNORANCE.




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*How many more will die for your mistake Bush, how many more?*<br><br>"Love is not blind. It sees all, yet loves it just the same."
 


Posts: 13 | Posted: 8:17 PM on December 19, 2004 | IP
Sol

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It makes perfect sense to call homosexuality a disorder.  The purpose of sex (whether intended by the participants or not) is reproduction.  This is impossible with homosexuality.

Therefore, homosexuals are using their bodies in ways that are completely contrary to their purposes.  That's a disorder if ever there was one.
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 03:59 AM on January 9, 2005 | IP
justforfun000

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The reference to the APA is to show that the APA is only an organization of individuals offering some opinion. The point is that whether opinions are offered by organizations/groups of individuals or opinions are offered by only one individual, the fact remains that it is only opinion. APA, AMA, and every other major organization... Whatever... Whomever... It's all just opinion.


BZZZT. Wrong.

An organization of trained professionals that SPECIALIZE in a certain field, are considered to have authority over the pronouncements because they have evidence to back up their statements.

An "opinion" is when someone says, "I believe".

These organizations are making STATEMENTS based on the best evidence to be found backing up their stance.

Besides, you are a total hypocrite. If everything WAS just "opinion", then it would be your opinion that it's a disorder and someone else's opinion that it's NOT would be just as valid.

Do you enjoy the sinking feeling that comes along with poking more holes in your leaky boat?

What's wrong with you anyway? Why the driving need to push your own personal vendetta against homosexuals? It's a natural human instinct to defend the underdog, and protect others from being hurt because THAT'S a natural type of inborn "morality", but the ones desiring to criticize, hurt and condemn are evincing another inborn desire. Cruelty and judgementalness. What's got you so riled up against gays? Some personal conflict maybe?

 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 5:53 PM on January 11, 2005 | IP
justforfun000

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"It makes perfect sense to call homosexuality a disorder.  The purpose of sex (whether intended by the participants or not) is reproduction.  This is impossible with homosexuality."

Ok, enough of this foolishness.

The definition of disorder is this:

dis·or·der    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ds-ôrdr)
n.
A lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion.
A breach of civic order or peace; a public disturbance.
An ailment that affects the function of mind or body: eating disorders and substance abuse.

tr.v. dis·or·dered, dis·or·der·ing, dis·or·ders
To throw into confusion or disarray.
To disturb the normal physical or mental health of; derange.


Ok. The only thing applicable to THIS argument are these two:

An ailment that affects the function of mind or body: eating disorders and substance abuse

and

To disturb the normal physical or mental health of; derange.

So to do the litmus test on the first statement, we would have to see if homosexuality falls under the description of an "ailment". Lets see..

ail·ment    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (lmnt)
n.
A physical or mental disorder, especially a mild illness.


Well, that makes a rather circular argument doesn't it...

Ok, the only extra factor is more the emphasis on "illness". Same as the other quotes. To derange, affect function.

This is where you get to the crux of the argument.

The facts of the matter are this. Homosexuals can live a life that is in no way different than heterosexuals regarding longevity, susceptibility to illness, or impaired motor or mind function.

The ONLY thing-affecting people are lifestyle choices. So even if you pulled every statistic out of your ass you could think of trying to link the ACTIONS of promiscuity to STD's, or drug use among gay teens, etc etc., it STILL would not make the underlying basic condition of homosexuality be a disorder.

Hell, if you went by Africa alone, you could falsely conclude by that type of logic that heterosexuality was a disorder because those desires are contributing to unprotected sex which is bringing millions of children into this world dying of AIDS. You DO know that over there, 90% or more of AIDS sufferers and the people transmitting it are heterosexual, right?

So even by a simple definition of terms, you can in no way put forth a logical argument based on the premise that homosexuality is a "disorder".

Now since you seem so hung up on biology, let’s address this point...


So according to your biological viewpoint, you agree that celibacy is a disorder?

I'm going to borrow someone's signature because it's also somewhat applicable here...:

"Science is like sex. Sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it."
-Richard Feynman

So you also agree that oral sex is a disorder? It certainly can't result in reproduction....Of course you have to also agree that masturbation is wrong since you are wasting your sperm as a male, and as a female...Well I guess the only thing you can say is that physical pleasure for itself is wrong? Wow, what a slippery slope you have to slide down in order to start to justify your point....But I'm not done yet.

If the act of sex were meant solely for reproduction, why does the clitoris exist? The G-spot? Why does the female orgasm exist? If sex were meant to be purely for creation, and not for pleasure, then why do sexual sensations exist at all? They are not NECESSARY to reproduce.

The other primates that are our closest cousins, chimps and gorillas, engage in both masturbation and homosexual sex. In fact you have to work pretty hard to find primates who DON'T exhibit those behaviours in their natural habitat.

I could go on and on very easily refuting these simplistic denials of reality, but let me go with the bottom line. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE to reproduce. Men and women can still have sex the old fashion way, or they can choose to artificially impregnate. The issue then is raising them in a family unit that doesn’t include the original male and female. Fine. That’s a moralistic argument. That could be argued many ways, and I would find it intriguing to explore that aspect more thoroughly, but that’s a separate argument dealing with moral pros and cons. It can be debated without religion even being part of the picture.





(Edited by justforfun000 1/11/2005 at 9:40 PM).

(Edited by justforfun000 1/11/2005 at 9:41 PM).
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 7:04 PM on January 11, 2005 | IP
Tigerlilly

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FOr the above, are you referring to the Bonobo?


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If it hurts no one, then there's nothing immoral about it.
 


Posts: 12 | Posted: 9:05 PM on January 11, 2005 | IP
justforfun000

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They are one of the species. Yeah.

How the hell did that post get squeezed like that? weird.
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 9:39 PM on January 11, 2005 | IP
justforfun000

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Fixed
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 9:41 PM on January 11, 2005 | IP
JohnDSM

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I love fucking people who have disorders...and I'm gay...does that mean that I have a disorder, or that the people I'm with have a disorder, or that you have a closed mind that needs to be pried open?  I just need to find a person with a real disorder that would be any worse than the next person so that I can say I have reached my maximum goal...finding someone who is totally disordered and making love one final time before I die...WHAT IS A DISORDER ANYWAY???


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I am a demon...
 


Posts: 9 | Posted: 11:46 AM on October 21, 2005 | IP
    
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