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     Bible proof against gays.
       Just for those who think the Bible promotes it.

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James

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These quotes are directly from the Bible (KJV). This is for some of those people who "believe" the Bible, but don't think homosexuality is wrong.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be put upon them."
                               -Leviticus 20:13

"Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."
                               -I Corinthians 11:9

"Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord."
                               -Proverbs 18:22

"Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old."
                               -Proverbs 23:22

"Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies."
                               -Proverbs 31:10

Notice that all these talk about women and women and men, not two men. The first is proof enough.          
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 3:44 PM on March 5, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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[random] "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."
                              -I Corinthians 11:9[random]

Wouldn't that be an argument against womens rights? So if your to follow the bible then women should have to do whatever there husband or father says? But not to get off topic.

Bible quotes hold no reason to make homosexuality legal, yes I know your were only refering to the christians who don't have a problem with homosexuality... But I think you should have an open mind and remember the bible was written by man not god.


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Posts: 301 | Posted: 6:23 PM on March 6, 2005 | IP
Sol

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Quote from Peter87 at 6:23 PM on March 6, 2005 :
remember the bible was written by man not god.


The bible was written by men who were inspired by god.



 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 10:10 PM on March 6, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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Quote from Sol at 10:10 PM on March 6, 2005 :
Quote from Peter87 at 6:23 PM on March 6, 2005 :
remember the bible was written by man not god.


The bible was written by men who were inspired by god.





Maybe they lied...





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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 10:54 AM on March 7, 2005 | IP
Sol

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Quote from Peter87 at 10:54 AM on March 7, 2005 :
Quote from Sol at 10:10 PM on March 6, 2005 :
Quote from Peter87 at 6:23 PM on March 6, 2005 :
remember the bible was written by man not god.


The bible was written by men who were inspired by god.





Maybe they lied...






And maybe they didn't.  What's your point?
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 11:17 PM on March 7, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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That you should nether take anything at face value, and that you should question everything in life, science, religion, etc. otherwise our knowledge individualy and as a race as a whole will stop growing in inteligence.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 4:18 PM on March 8, 2005 | IP
joebrummer

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Quote from Sol at 10:10 PM on March 6, 2005 :
Quote from Peter87 at 6:23 PM on March 6, 2005 :
remember the bible was written by man not god.


The bible was written by men who were inspired by god.






And you believe this why?  Because someone told you to?   Men told you to?    A book written by man and man tells you god wrote it, sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.


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Posts: 29 | Posted: 09:51 AM on March 20, 2005 | IP
slayer

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the bible was written by man and u shouldn't believe it it's a 2000 year old book.

(Edited by admin 3/21/2005 at 06:11 AM).


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kkk for the gays is a swell idea
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 05:17 AM on March 21, 2005 | IP
deppy

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These quotes are directly from the Bible (KJV). This is for some of those people who "believe" the Bible, but think homosexuality is wrong.

"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."
   - Leviticus 19:27

I bet none of you that quote Lev 18:22 ever cut your hair or beards...


"Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death."
   - Exodus 35:2

That does say death, right?  I bet everyone who quotes the bible has worked on a Sunday at some point in time

"And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you."
   - Leviticus 11:10

Have you ever eaten shellfish? It's an abomination.  


"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."
   - Exodus 21:7



People who like to quote 1 or 2 verses from the bible to fit their political agendas are what is wrong with this world.  If you're going to do all of the things the bible says not to do, and then turn around and go on and on about how bad something is and using the bible as the source of  your arguments, you are a very sad person and shouldn't even be given a voice in this country or anywhere in the world for that matter.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 5:13 PM on April 5, 2005 | IP
Mainester

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"These quotes are directly from the Bible (KJV). This is for some of those people who "believe" the Bible, but don't think homosexuality is wrong.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be put upon them."
                              -Leviticus 20:13"

Well, let's see how well that argument holds up to the light of day.

Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

OK.  First, some historical references (That's right, I'm going to use the verses in context which is something that the religious right seems to fail miserably at):

Both of these verses refer not to homosexuals but to heterosexuals who took part in the baal fertility rituals in order to guarantee good crops and healthy flocks. No hint at sexual orientation or homosexuality is even implied.  The word abomination in Leviticus was used for anything that was considered to be religiously unclean or associated with idol worship.

The use of Leviticus to condemn and reject homosexuals is obviously a hypocritical selective use of the Bible against gays and lesbians.  

Hypocritical because nobody today tries to keep the laws in Leviticus. Look at Leviticus 11:1-12, where all unclean animals are forbidden as food, including rabbits, pigs, and shellfish, such as oysters, shrimp, lobsters, crabs, clams, and others that are called an "abomination."  Leviticus 20:25 demands that "you are to make a distinction between the clean and unclean animal and between the unclean and clean bird; and you shall not make yourself an abomination by animal or by bird or by anything that creeps on the ground, which I have separated for you as unclean."  You can eat some insects like locusts (grasshoppers), but not others.

Leviticus 12:1-8 declares that a woman is unclean for 33 days after giving birth to a boy and for 66 days after giving birth to a girl and goes on to demand that certain animals must be offered as a burnt offering and a sin offering for cleansing. Nobody today who claims to be a Christian tries to keep these laws, and few people even know about them! Why do you think that most people don't know about them?

Read Leviticus 23 to see the detailed regulations concerning "complete rest" on the Sabbath day and demands of animal sacrifices to be carried out according to exact instructions.  Leviticus 18:19 forbids a husband from having sex with his wife during her menstrual period.  Leviticus 19:19 forbids mixed breeding of  various kinds of cattle, sowing various kinds of seeds in your field or wearing "a garment made from two kinds of material mixed together."  Leviticus 19:27 demands that "you shall not round off the side-growth of your heads, nor harm the edges of your beard." The next verse forbids "tattoo marks on yourself."  Most people do not even know that these laws are in the Bible and are demanded equally with all the others.

Why don't fundamentalists organize protests and picket seafood restaurants, oyster bars, church barbecue suppers, all grocery stores, barber shops, tattoo parlors, and stores that sell suits and dresses made of mixed wool, cotton, polyester, and other materials?  All of these products and services are "abominations" in Leviticus.  When have you heard a preacher condemn the demonic abomination of garments that are made of mixed fabrics?  

The warning is given in Leviticus 26:14-16 that "If you do not obey me and do not carry out all of these commandments, if instead, you reject my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances so as not to carry out all my commandments ...I, in turn, will do this to you: I will appoint over you a sudden terror, consumption and fever that shall waste away the eyes and cause the soul to pine away; also, you shall sow your seed uselessly, for your enemies shall eat it up."  The list of punishments and terrors that will come from not keeping all of the commandments continues through many verses.

This is why the new testament was written, because Jesus came to earth to save mankind as mankind was obviously unable to save itself.

Read what Jesus said in Matthew 7:1-5 about hypocrites who judge others. "Do not judge lest you be judged yourselves... Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? ...You hypocrite!"

If you have been led to misuse  Leviticus and other parts of the Bible in order to condemn and hate and reject people, you are on the wrong path.  Jesus quoted only one passage from Leviticus: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (19:18).  

Jesus used Leviticus to teach love. Many false teachers use Leviticus and other writings to condemn, humiliate and destroy.  Jesus never condemned homosexuals or even mentioned anything that could be taken as a reference to sexual orientation.

The use of Leviticus to judge and condemn anyone today is ludicrous and absurd in the light of the total content of the book.  To call the content of the Book of Leviticus the "Word of God" and try to enforce any part of it today is without support in the teachings of Jesus and in the letters of Paul.

Jesus in Mark 7:18-23 chided his disciples for their lack of spiritual understanding.  Jesus and his disciples had been condemned by the religious leaders because they did not wash and eat according to the Law.  Jesus said, "Are you too so uncomprehending?  Don't you see that whatever goes into your mouth from the outside cannot defile you; because it does not go into your heart, but into your stomach, and is eliminated? (Thus Jesus declared all foods clean.").  And Jesus added, "That which proceeds from within you, out of your heart, defiles you.  Evil thoughts, abusive sex acts, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting, wickedness, deceit, not  caring, envy, slander, arrogance and foolishness: all of these evil things proceed from within and defile you."

Paul also rejected the absolute commands of Leviticus in Colossians 2:8-23, where he said, "If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 'Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!' (which all refer to things destined to perish with the using) in accordance with human commandments and teachings? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against human indulgence." (2:20-23).  Paul declared in 2:14 that Jesus has "canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us which was hostile to us; and Jesus has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."

Many people have answered the argument that most of the "abominations" in Leviticus referred to food by saying that the people back then knew that pork was unhealthy, and that is why pigs were declared to be unclean.  If you follow that logic, you would declare anything that is unhealthy to be an "abomination."  We know that cigarettes, alcoholic beverages, fat food and many other things are unhealthy; so why are they not also called "abominations" and condemned by the rabid Bible literalists with protests and pickets against cigarette machines, all liquor stores and bars, all fast food outlets, and any store that sells anything that is unhealthy?  

The reason is simple.  The use of Leviticus to condemn and reject anyone is impossible to justify in the light of the facts.

The use of Leviticus to condemn and reject homosexuals is absurd and makes literal legalistic bible based religion look ridiculous.

just my $.02



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"To listen is to know for a moment. To hear is to know forever." -Dana Cowley
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 6:52 PM on April 14, 2005 | IP
rob74696

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Wow!

Now theres a person who does their homework. I am so glad someone took the time to analize the bible (especially Leviticus) and point out its flaws. I have often wondered how people who claim to be such avid religious types can take the bible so literally when there are clearly many glaring contradictions.

I mean to put someone to death for working on the sabbath, or for lying down with another man, or any of the other numerous "atrocities" mankind must commit on a daily basis. Now, this is the book where it says "Thou shalt not Kill", too right?


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Robert
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 2:53 PM on April 23, 2005 | IP
Carns

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first of all, i apologize for not reading mainester's long post. i intend to address rob

just because we dont understand leviticus now, does not make it and the other commonly pointed out 'contradictions' what they appear to be. context in the bible is paramount. to understand leviticus you need to understand the big picture of god's plan here... if you are contemplating becoming a christian and read leviticus for example, you're going to be scared off for sure.. †leviticus has a lot of rules, punishments and the like that no free-world citizen would be permitted to carry out. when was the last time you saw your neighbourhood church stone somebody to death for example? this doesn't mean we don't believe in leviticus. leviticus and several other old-testament books are held in just as high and important a light as any of the others, but they are read and studied with a mind that understands their place in the christian story... it would be difficult for me to try and explain everything, since i can't say that i understand it completely anyways, but if you start with the assumption that it's correct, (which can be difficult for some) and attempt to make sense of it, rather than pick it apart and try and make flaws, it flows together quite nicely...

its like a new piano player trying to make sense of a complicated and musically challenging piece... the more you begin to understand and the more you trust the author of the piece, the better it sounds...
unfortunately, most people start with the analogical assumption that they are the maestro and the composer of the piece is the beginner... this wont lead anywhere

I can tell you that while i don't understand sections of the bible and how they fit, my understanding and faith that they DO fit has only increased through time and study.. give it a shot.

futhermore, let me point out that God isn't the sort to pick on gay's or any other variety of sin, He let us know that we are all in the same boat.. we are all sinners... so this whole finger pointing this is antibiblical right off the bat, God doesn't beat us down for being sinners, but offered us a solution to that position we're all in.

Don't beleive what any christian, pastor, or pope tells you over your own judgment as you read through the incredible book... seriously it can change your life

ps. i know i got off topic. apologies.

pps. i just read a good deal of that post, and it's good stuff.. i think i pretty much covered it in my less-quotable manner a second time over.




(Edited by Carns 4/25/2005 at 10:21 PM).


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Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:17 PM on April 25, 2005 | IP
rob74696

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Carns,

Believe me, I meant no offense towards your obviously strong beliefs. This kind of debate always gets turned around into an argument which we, as the intelligent people we are should be able to see past and discuss the issues at hand. That being said I hope we can explore this a little further without losing any respect for each other, I certainly respect your right to believe in the bible and I would certainly hope that you respect mine.

"just because we dont understand leviticus now, does not make it and the other commonly pointed out 'contradictions' what they appear to be."
I believe the bible was written quite a while ago and people have been studying it for centuries. I dont see how the  "Understanding" of the bible is not complete. If it is not complete, perhaps it is these very contradictions that make it the type of written work that bears intense scrutiny for many years to come. several times you have refered to the bible for just what it is, I believe anyway, A Story. And a very good story as well. But is it really the type of story that bears a religious following.

" when was the last time you saw your neighbourhood church stone somebody to death for example?"
My problem is not with the respectable people people who set up the church bake sale and teach bible studies to a group of 6 year olds on sunday. those people are good christians who follow the faith the way it was meant to be followed,again, i believe. My problem is the people who believe in it so intensely that they take it upon themselves to pass judgement on others to the point of murder in gods name. Several verses say it is a paramount sin to be a homosexual, these people read this on their own, without the spiritual guidance of an honest priest or reverand and the result is catostrophic for all parties involved. How many have died in the name of god.

I truly believe there is a god, but i also believe that one of the saddest days he has ever seen was the day man finished writing the bible and said this was GODS law. It must have been raining heavily that day from all his tears. My god, or the god I believe in wants nothing to do with these laws set up by humanity thousands of years ago to keep people in line. He is waiting for us all to rejoin him and start to believe in nothing but love again.

I hope I have not offended you too much, please believe me, it was not my intention if I did.

Respectfully
Rob




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Robert
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 7:05 PM on April 26, 2005 | IP
Carns

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Rob..
first of all, i didn't take any offense.

About the understaning of leviticus, What i meant by "we don't understand it now" was that in the 21st century, that type of culture seems barbaric. i understand what is written down in the book, but it is commonly misunderstood by people as a contradiction because they dont understand the christian viewpoint of the law being "fulfilled" if it wasn't for christ coming and dying, we would have to find a way to religiously carry out those laws... thank God (literally) that we dont' have to. I personally dont know of any contradictions. I know that some people spend their life trying to find one in order to discredit the bible, but the fact of the matter is, if you want the bible to make sense, it will.

you're next point about taking it to the point of judgment and then murder i totally agree.. there's a good verse in James 1:20 that explicitly states that the wrath of man doesn't produce the righteousness of God. it describes how we are SUPPOSED to be compassionate. swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath... these people don't understand that they are attempting to produce the righteousness of God with their wrath, but it is impossible.... in Romans 12:19 Paul warns the church to not avenge themselves, for it's written in Deutoronomy 32:35 that the Lord said "Vengeace is Mine, I will repay" the people behaving this way are essentially trying to act on God's behalf, when it is by no means our responsibility to do so.
You were totally right to disagree with this extent of self-righteousness and arrogance.

The bible and it's guidance doesn't *need* to be interpreted for you by a reverend or priest (although that can be helpful). i believe it was intended to be read as directions for yourself. its not meant to be a book to hit others with what they are not doing right. The Bible says in Philipians 2:12 to work out your OWN salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you.... this clearly tells us that God is responsible to let us know what he wants us to work on... christians so often make people think they have to be sinless or perfect to please God... this is untrue, God views those who believe as sinless and perfect because Christ died for us, and He wants us to grow with His help *toward* being perfect and sinless.

As for your opinion about the bible being a work of man, not God... If you like, I can give you what i believe to be several great proofs of it's divine origin. God invented free will.. he will never force anybody to believe him, his word, or whatever... but he leaves enough evidence to convince beyond doubt if you want that.

rob, you're line of question and arguments are sound reasoning and i can't find any reason why i should take offense. If you pursue these questions to the end, if you find answers for yourself along your path, you will understand what i mean by proof enough to believe. †Let me know if you're interested in hearing about why I believe the bible isn't just a man-written book... maybe you need different evidences, but i'm willing to share what convinced me back to christianity. (i used to be the kid who used to read the bible just to find contradictions and reasons not to believe it)

Dave

(Edited by Carns 4/27/2005 at 11:14 PM).


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Posts: 95 | Posted: 11:08 PM on April 27, 2005 | IP
joebrummer

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Please take the time to read the letter to louise...I know it is long but so worth the information.
www.godmademegay.com
(Edited by joebrummer 5/1/2005 at 10:55 PM).

(Edited by joebrummer 5/1/2005 at 10:56 PM).


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Posts: 29 | Posted: 10:54 PM on May 1, 2005 | IP
BringItToTheLight

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Don't get off the subject that gay guys want to put their penis in another man's rear and/or mouth.  Stay focused.  
The agenda is do find ways or arguments that support us in what we want to do not what God wants us to do.  This is and has been the world's view since Adam/Eve and is a by product of choice.  
That choice, given to us by our creator to freely choose "him", is paramount to the argument of doing what we "want" and what is right in our mind.  
Someone post some Romans, and how about history alone or studies over time about these choices.  I don't see husbands/wives who have abstained for each other getting diseases from other partners.  I have seen hetero's get the same diseases because of making the same incorrect choices.  
There is life in His Word - both physical and spritual.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 01:24 AM on June 1, 2005 | IP
skins38

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In response to deppy.

All these things you have quoted are from old testement law.

And later on in the Bible if you actually read it would find out most of these laws are removed by God.


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Posts: 97 | Posted: 6:27 PM on June 1, 2005 | IP
lion3901

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Isn't christianity founded on God's love?

Here's another one: Why does lot offer his daughters to the "homosexual men" in sodom? Why would they want to have sex with women? They're "gay"
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 1:10 PM on July 5, 2005 | IP
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forget ur bible and think of our law. our legal system was not based on christianity so ur bible has no say in this case whats so ever. the first amendement said, seperation between law and state and the treaty of tripoli states that since America has no been made by Christians and is not a complete christian country religion will not be included in law
kevin
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 2:03 PM on July 5, 2005 | IP
JustineCredible

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"INSPIRED" maybe, but all too many attempt to claim that God himself put those words into the heads and hands of those men. Lest we forget that humans are falible and easily corrupted?
Besides, it's just a book. Who's to say what's real or what is not in it?




Quote from Sol at 10:10 PM on March 6, 2005 :
Quote from Peter87 at 6:23 PM on March 6, 2005 :
remember the bible was written by man not god.


The bible was written by men who were inspired by god.









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"All those who believe in physcokenetics ~ Raise My Hand!"
 


Posts: 24 | Posted: 3:52 PM on July 6, 2005 | IP
JustineCredible

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Nah, not a cospiracy but surely a cult.

Kissing Hank's Butt



Quote from joebrummer at 09:51 AM on March 20, 2005 :
Quote from Sol at 10:10 PM on March 6, 2005 :
Quote from Peter87 at 6:23 PM on March 6, 2005 :
remember the bible was written by man not god.


The bible was written by men who were inspired by god.






And you believe this why? †Because someone told you to? † Men told you to? † †A book written by man and man tells you god wrote it, sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.






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"All those who believe in physcokenetics ~ Raise My Hand!"
 


Posts: 24 | Posted: 3:54 PM on July 6, 2005 | IP
JustineCredible

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Sweet Jebus!!! Let's wake up here folks. Adam and Eve? Really?
Let's think about that for just one second shalll we?
If Adam and Eve were created by this entity called God, and then that entity said that homosexuality is bad...why would he allow incest but prohibit homosexuality?

If Adam and Eve truly were the first humans, where would their children find husbands and wives? Surely not from other families....since they were the ONLY family on Earth..right...

So, come on, lets get real here shall we?




Quote from BringItToTheLight at 01:24 AM on June 1, 2005 :
Don't get off the subject that gay guys want to put their penis in another man's rear and/or mouth. †Stay focused. †
The agenda is do find ways or arguments that support us in what we want to do not what God wants us to do. †This is and has been the world's view since Adam/Eve and is a by product of choice. †
That choice, given to us by our creator to freely choose "him", is paramount to the argument of doing what we "want" and what is right in our mind. †
Someone post some Romans, and how about history alone or studies over time about these choices. †I don't see husbands/wives who have abstained for each other getting diseases from other partners. †I have seen hetero's get the same diseases because of making the same incorrect choices. †
There is life in His Word - both physical and spritual.






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Posts: 24 | Posted: 4:00 PM on July 6, 2005 | IP
JustineCredible

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Ok, let's talk about these supposed Levitical passages shall we?

If those of you who put so much stock into those passages are actually "Christian" you're breaking your own religious ideals by following what Jebus said was no longer valid. He came to offer a new convenant. To make all sins forgiven.
Levitical/Mosaic laws aren't to be followed if you are truly Christian. So, do us all a favor, quit reciting from the Old Testiment when discussing Gay Marriage and Gay rights.

Also, let us not forget that our nation was founded to be a SECULAR society...not a THEOCRACY!!!
You may have your beliefs and practice them all you want, but you don't have the right to bring those beliefs with you into any discussion on laws of this nation.

Your right to practice your faith ends at my government doors.



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"All those who believe in physcokenetics ~ Raise My Hand!"
 


Posts: 24 | Posted: 4:05 PM on July 6, 2005 | IP
AtheistPotatoes

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This thread is telling me that I should be living by laws made off a book I don't believe in... That just does not make sense.
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 7:16 PM on July 17, 2005 | IP
skins38

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I havnt read all the threads but from the title it seems that its simply proving that the Bible doesnt promote homesexuality.  

So just because we can be forgiven makes it okay to commit?  All sins are forgivable so does that make murder right because it is forgivable?



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2nd Amendment- First line of defense;Last resort to combat tyranny and oppression.
 


Posts: 97 | Posted: 5:46 PM on July 18, 2005 | IP
JohnDSM

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The Bible is a great book...especially to live your life off of.  But how many people are living their lives identical to the way the Bible teaches?  I love the following quotes from quotegarden.com under the "homosexuality" link:

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals.  That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals.  It's just that they need more supervision.  ~Lynn Lavner


If God had wanted me otherwise, He would have created me otherwise.  ~Johann von Goethe

War.  Rape.  Murder.  Poverty.  Equal rights for gays.  Guess which one the Southern Baptist Convention is protesting?  ~The Value of Families

No government has the right to tell its citizens when or whom to love.  The only queer people are those who don't love anybody.  ~Rita Mae Brown, speech, 28 August 1982

Everybody's journey is individual.  If you fall in love with a boy, you fall in love with a boy.  The fact that many Americans consider it a disease says more about them than it does about homosexuality.  ~James Baldwin

There is nothing wrong with going to bed with someone of your own sex.  People should be very free with sex, they should draw the line at goats.  ~Elton John

Jesse Helms and Newt Gingrich were shaking hands congratulating themselves on the introduction of an antigay bill in Congress.  If it passes, they won't be able to shake hands, because it will then be illegal for a prick to touch an asshole.  ~Judy Carter

What are you trying to protect heterosexual marriages from?  There isn't a limited amount of love in Iowa.  It isn't a non-renewable resource.  If Amy and Barbara or Mike and Steve love each other, it doesn't mean that John and Mary can't.  ~Ed Fallon

[b][color=blue]


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I am a demon...
 


Posts: 9 | Posted: 10:53 AM on October 21, 2005 | IP
K8

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LOVING those quotes!

So true.
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 09:27 AM on October 22, 2005 | IP
corpse891

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Hey. Iím just gonna say it how it is.
First of all, if you believe the Bible to be true as Gods word, then you must view it as an objective standard for living. Those who do not believe the Bible in its entirety, stop reading this now.
Second, as an objective rule for living, the Bible leaves no room for manipulation of its words and does not care what you believe. It is true regardless of whether or not you think it is true.
Next, homosexuality is not what the Bible defines as love. Love is Biblically between a man and a woman. God did not intend for men to be with men and women with women and therefore it is abominable. Abominable as in disgraceful, not simply relating to pagan rituals or whatever was stated in an earlier post. Abominable as in wrong. It is a sin and those who participate in it are reprobates (those who sin and know they are sinning).
Also, for those who say Jesus never talked about gays, Jesus didnít talk about alot of things (cars, for example), but He never denied the validity of the Old Testament.

 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 9:47 PM on November 14, 2005 | IP
EMyers

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1 The Bible does talk about cars.  It says the were all in one Accord.  (ok, couldn't resist)

2 Some idiot posted about working on Sunday.  Since when is Sunday the seventh day of the week?

3 If we wish to stick to the new covenanant, then its pretty simple to still come up with homosexuality as being sinful.

  A   I Cor. 6:9-10
 
  B   Rom. 1:26-32

  C   Mat. 19:4-5 (and other gospel ref.)

  D   ! Tim. 1:9-10

Obviously not all inclusive, but enough to get the point across.  Biblically, under the new covenant, homosexuality is considered a sin.  As for the quote regarding how many verses were devoted to homosexuals as versus heterosexuals, the average person is less likely to commit homosexuality than other sins and is therefore less prevalent.  Someone might be hungry and might steal from hopelesness.  Someone may be mad and might kill a fit of rage.  Someone might be frightened and might lie to save themselves.  I don't know of anyone who has ever accidentally stuck their penis in someone's butt or mouth.  Maybe I've just been lucky.  Fornication is never an accident.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 3:49 PM on January 6, 2006 | IP
Foeke

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Quote from corpse891 at 06:47 AM on November 15, 2005 :
It is a sin and those who participate in it are reprobates (those who sin and know they are sinning).


While the former part - in your eyes anyway - supposedly could be true, the second part is very much a gross assumption on your part in which you are forcing your moral values on others who do not consider themselves sinners at all. Your perspective is not THE perspective.




(Edited by Foeke 1/7/2006 at 1:01 PM).
 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 1:00 PM on January 7, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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I'm just curious, by what definition do you define sin.  I did not know sin held a definition outside the scope of God's word.  If one reads the bible, one must either decide not to believe in it or can not be a homosexual (or believe in it and accept the consequences therein I suppose).  If one does not believe in the bible then I would assume one would not use the word "sin" in regards to anything.  Romans 7:7 for instance.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 6:45 PM on January 7, 2006 | IP
Pallim

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Sin is an insignificant word invented long ago for use as a scare tactic. Those who preach sin fear sin.
 


Posts: 39 | Posted: 9:38 PM on January 9, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Sin is simply breaking the law (God's).  How can one fear it when, by definition, it was one's own choice?  No one made you sin.  If you fear it, then by definition you must believe in the law that you are breaking.  I don't see how it can be a "scare tactic".


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 11:15 AM on January 10, 2006 | IP
Miss_Veronique

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[color=red]Love the quotes, very cute
"Next, homosexuality is not what the Bible defines as love. Love is Biblically between a man and a woman"
So in thsi sense, man can ONLY have lvoe fro a woman right? because that si THE way it is decribed, so you cannot love your children, your pets, yourself, yoru clothes, friends, stars anything! You may have love between a man and a woman...
wow, taht sounds pretty dumb to me...maybe im just crazy.
Love is love, whether between a man and a woman or a man and a man. Love is meant to be rejoiced about, I don't see what the big deal is. A man loves another man, it's his business, nto yours, so just bugger off and leave them lvoe alone. It's not harming you. How can you beleive that a perfectly good person will go to hell for loving someone else?
What 'God' would promote such insanity and cruelty?


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Veronique!!
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 10:01 PM on January 11, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Um, the topic is Bible proof against gays...  I'm not sure I noticed any Bible references in your entire post.  Perhaps you meant to post somewhere else.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 12:09 AM on January 12, 2006 | IP
HuntDurant

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EMyers, you sound like someone I may know.

Anyways.  My name is Hunter and I grew up in a small town in South Carolina.  Needless to say my mother's side of the family was less than thrilled when they heard the news of me being gay.  I am a christian and I believe in the Bible.  Sure, there are things in there that make me go hmm....but I don't read into it.  I know about the scriptures on gays and lesbians.  The fact of the matter is that I didn't choose to be this way.  Sure...I chose to be with my partner who I love and adore and live with now.  However, I didn't choose to be attracted to the same sex.  Did you choose to like Vanilla ice cream?  Did you choose to like basketball?  Yes, I'm sure you could force yourself to like those activities, but why?  Why force yourself to be someone your not.  It's obviously in God's will if you are who you are.  

I moved to NC to live with my partner last year.  I had to get out of that small town filled with hate.  EMyers, you could be someone completely different, but your username sounds like someone that I do know.  If you are this particular person, I want to ask you if you've heard of a Grace Baptist Church?  Well, I've gone to that church for the last time ever.  The last few times I went (Which was just to please my mother), the preacher had something negative to say about homosexuality.  And get this....I was at that church on Mother's Day, when the preacher talked about how bad the women's rights movement was.  He horribly bashed homosexuals and if it wasn't for me wanting to keep the peace, I would have walked out.  Now, E, put yourself in my shoes for a second.  What if you were a certain way, that you didn't choose to be, and it was supposedly against your religion, and a preacher bashes the heck out of it everytime you go to this church?  E, how would you feel?  Not to mention the fact that you have 2 sisters that you look up to who at first support you and then decide one day that its wrong and don't support you.  My support from my mother's side of the family has been nothing but wishy washy from my sisters and absolutely no support from my mother.  My mother had the audacity to even get a supposedly formerly gay preacher to call me up and ask me to come to a church so that he could talk me out of being gay.  I really started to believe her, but I knew I hadn't made a choice to be this way, so I contimplated suicide.  Yes...suicide!  Needless to say, I wasn't going to let this defeat me.  I now suffer from severe panic attacks and anxiety.  Not having the support from part of your family hurts more than anything, and eventually hurts physically.  I'm only 20 years old, and I have high blood pressure problems due to the anxiety and panic attacks.  For anyone else who had panic attacks, you would know that it feels like your having a heart attack and that your about to die.  It's not very pleasant at all.  I make my appearance at all the family gatherings.  I put on the fake smile and play like I'm the Hunter thats not gay, for them.  I go without my partner of course (Since I was told by my sister that any boyfriend of mine wouldn't be welcomed in her house), and I play as if everything is just fine and dandy.  It would be so much easier to be heterosexual, much easier.  However, I gag if I eat onions, and I would gag if I had to do a female.  I want to raise children too.  Not right now, but in the future we do.  I want to raise a child that will hopefully make a difference in this world and not be brought up in all the turmoil and hypocracy I've been brought up in.  Most of all, I want to show my child what a true christian is.  One that doesn't judge and one that accepts people for they are.  I'm still very sad and I yearn for that support from my mothers and sisters one day.  Unfortunately, since they can't accept me being gay, they'll never really get to know me.  It's very sad when you think about it, but I just keep going.  I'm venting because I think I know who you are.  If there is no connection and you are someone completely different, I apologize.

-Hunter
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 04:49 AM on February 25, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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First, never been to SC and would not step foot in a Baptist church.  Second, Most of all, I want to show my child what a true christian is.  One that doesn't judge and one that accepts people for they are.... explain to me how you would show him what a true Christian is while blatantly defying His laws set forth in the Bible?  If someone murders, and I tell him he is wrong for doing so, am I judging him?  Christians are required to rebuke and correct when it comes to sin.  If someone is doing something that is a sin and we do not speak against it, then we condone it.  Would you teach your child to condone that which your Christian upbringing tells him is wrong?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 10:27 AM on February 25, 2006 | IP
K8

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The Bible also forbids wearing clothes made of different types of material. So any homosexuals out there wearing polyester-cotton blend...watch out! ;)
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:32 AM on February 26, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Ok, that was on topic.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 10:04 AM on February 26, 2006 | IP
K8

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'Twas, actually. If Christians are going to argue that homosexuality is clearly forbidden in the Bible and should therefore never be practised, should they not also be arguing that wearing clothes made of different materials is a sin as well? It is an odd argument, sure, but still valid.
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:39 AM on February 27, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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And the topic is "Bible proof against gays".  Do you have biblical proof for gays, Kate?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 08:06 AM on February 27, 2006 | IP
K8

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My point is that you can't pick and choose what you want to follow in the Bible - some Christians believe in the death penalty, and yet are against abortion (like Gearge W. Bush for example). The Bible has so many contradictions within it, and it has become so open to interpretation that it has lost much of its meaning. Maybe you should focus on its basic principles of love, tolerance and treating others the way you wish to be treated, rather than spreading hate, fear and intolerance in the world.
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:14 AM on March 1, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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I'll take that as a "no".


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 09:48 AM on March 1, 2006 | IP
thelmoose

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See K8, Eddie there likes to pose off-topic yes/no questions. (The thread is called "For Bible proof against gays" and he asked you the opposite.) It also doesn't matter to him that the conversation had shifted.
I like your point. It gets asked of the christians all the time and they never answer it. Why is the anti-gay stuff in Leviticus the only part you take literally? Hence your question about clothing. Why do they get to pick the parts of the bible they like and ignore the others? This never, never gets answered.
 


Posts: 40 | Posted: 1:46 PM on March 1, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Kate, please feel free to reference your specific book, chapter, and verse in the New Testament and I will be happy to answer it for you.  Moose, you accuse me of asking an off topic question to a topic that you say has shifted its topic.  By your reasoning, only you and your cronies are allowed to post off-topic questions.  If the topic is "Bible proof against gays" and it is a debate forum, I would assume that the other side of the debate would be providing "Bible proof for gays".   Perhaps I have misunderstood the term debate and you would like to enlighten us.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:21 PM on March 1, 2006 | IP
Jake19

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The contradictions within the bible are the PROOF!!! And I have not seen any qoutes that OBVIOUSLY denounce homosexuality as far as I am concerned Mainester's has proven that there is not stance against homosexuality.

And Emyers... I do not know what kind of christian background you come from but the one I was raised in did not teach us to "rebuke and correct"... that is Gods job... OUR job is to bring people to god and have them find there own path. So i completely disagree with what you have said.

(Edited by Jake19 3/1/2006 at 7:42 PM).


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~*JaKe*~
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 6:13 PM on March 1, 2006 | IP
temporaryname

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Emyers I think your name is.
I hate to post off topic, I know how much you feel the need to regulate this post and correct that, I don't know I suppose you think that you are some type of God.
But I'm going to post off-topic and I don't care if you don't like it.

Obviously if you read this entire page of posts, you will see AMPLE biblical references as to why it does not make sense to take the bible literally in many aspects, but especially in tems of homosexuals. It doesn't need repeated, any closed minded person as yourself would of course need to demand to hear the same arguments again and again so you can keeo fighting people.

You are so concerned about this debate here then let me tell you a little something about your "debating style". It reminds me of a friend I had that had a lot of emotional problems and so faught with EVERYONE. Every chance she could get would be a started argument and was very immature, nagging, and just downright childish. This is your debate style. Its irritating and its a disapointment to the Christian name.
Read your own posts and look at how childish you sound. Look at how irritable you sound.
The bible was written for some kind of a more peaceful and loving world, and its people like you that ruin that. I'm sorry if you can't see the hate your spreading just in this small posting area. Its not a debate for you, its a need to spread your nasty little attitude everywhere you can.
I came to this site to read some educated opinions as to the different sides of this issue, and ended up just being angry with your immaturity. Thats the only thing you have contributed.
I'm sure you are going to try to respond to this and nitpick at all the things I have said, maybe even tell me my post doesnt belong here, tell me that I am offtopic, that I am a hypocrite, that I am dumb. I don't know I'm sure you'll come up with some argument. But I'm not interested. I'll never be back to this site to here you pathetic argument.
You just needed to be put in your place.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 10:53 AM on March 31, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Jake19, I come from a Christian background that preaches only that which can be found in the bible and does not leave anything out just because it might step on any toes.  I'm sure if anything the bible says steps on any toes, then the offended should read their bible and double check where they are leaving their toes.  I'm sure you have read 2 Timothy 4:2 during your "christian background" so I'm not sure why you are bothering to post as you did.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 1:23 PM on March 31, 2006 | IP
sarahrahrah

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I hate coming in so late.. but I just stumbled apon this in a late [very late] night web surf :[

but as far as Im reading Im very intrigued

After reading everything Mainester
[and others] had to say it made me think of a book I read a while ago called The Chrysalids.

I dont know if your familiar with it?

Trying not to digress... but doesnt this seem like the same thing? I mean everything thats being debated is summed up in a book.

Mind you, I read that book when I was still ignorant [lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact] so maybe Im wrong. Im just saying that like we all have our own views of things and even if the things are similar us as a race and each being individual we dont see them the same. If that makes sense?

Im not trying to kill the debate or anything because I like to see things from other peoples points of view and I like to see how that view came about.

its late. im sorry.

(Edited by sarahrahrah 10/16/2006 at 03:34 AM).
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 03:24 AM on October 16, 2006 | IP
sarahrahrah

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okay

Its not about gays so I did digress

but it is about abominations and it just talks about what Mainester was saying

(Edited by sarahrahrah 10/16/2006 at 03:35 AM).
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 03:29 AM on October 16, 2006 | IP
    
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