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     Gay Marriage
       I agree that gay marriage should be legal

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aznboiz1993

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The Arguments Against Gay Marriage
Well, of course there are a lot of reasons being offered these days for opposing gay marriage, and they are usually variations on a few well-established themes. Interestingly, a court in Hawaii has recently heard them all. And it found, after due deliberation, that they didn't hold water.
Here's a summary:

Marriage is an institution between one man and one woman. Well, that's the most often heard argument, one even codified in a recently passed U.S. federal law. Yet it is easily the weakest. Who says what marriage is and by whom it is to be defined? The married? The marriable? Isn't that kind of like allowing a banker to decide who is going to own the money in stored in his vaults? It seems to me that justice demands that if the straight community cannot show a compelling reason to deny the institution of marriage to gay people, it shouldn't be denied. And such simple, nebulous declarations, with no real moral argument behind them, are hardly compelling reasons. They're really more like an expression of prejudice than any kind of a real argument. The concept of not denying people their rights unless you can show a compelling reason to deny them is the very basis of the American ideal of human rights.

Same-sex couples aren't the optimum environment in which to raise children. That's an interesting one, in light of who society does allow to get married and bring children into their marriage. Check it out: murderers, convicted felons of all sorts, even known child molesters are all allowed to freely marry and procreate, and do so every day, with hardly a second thought, much less a protest, by these same critics. So if children are truly the priority here, why is this allowed? The fact is that many gay couples raise children, adopted and occasionally their own from failed attempts at heterosexual marriages. Lots and lots of scientific studies have shown that the outcomes of the children raised in the homes of gay and lesbian couples are just as good as those of straight couples. The differences have been shown again and again to be insignificant. Psychologists tell us that what makes the difference is the love and commitment of the parents, not their gender. The studies are very clear about that. And gay people are as capable of loving children as fully as anyone else.

Gay relationships are immoral. Says who? The Bible? Somehow, I always thought that freedom of religion implied the right to freedom from religion as well. The Bible has absolutely no standing in American law, as was made clear by the intent of the First Amendment (and as was very explicitly stated by the founding fathers in their first treaty, the Treaty of Tripoli, in 1791) and because it doesn't, no one has the right to impose rules anyone else simply because of something they percieve to be a moral injunction mandated by the Bible. Not all world religions have a problem with homosexuality; many sects of Buddhism, for example, celebrate gay relationships freely and would like to have the authority to make them legal marriages. In that sense, their religious freedom is being infringed. If one believes in religious freedom, the recognition that opposition to gay marriage is based on religious arguments is reason enough to discount this argument.

Marriages are for procreation and ensuring the continuation of the species. The proponents of this argument are really hard pressed to explain, if that's the case, why infertile couples are allowed to marry. I, for one, would love to be there when the proponent of such an argument is to explain to his post-menopausal mother or impotent father that since they cannot procreate, they must now surrender their wedding rings and sleep in separate bedrooms. That would be fun to watch! Again, such an argument fails to persuade based on the kinds of marriages society does allow routinely, without even a second thought, and why it really allows them - marriage is about love, sharing and commitment; procreation is, when it comes right down to it, in reality a purely secondary function.

The proponents of the procreation and continuation-of-the-species argument are going to have a really hard time persuading me that the human species is in any real danger of dying out anytime soon through lack of reproductive success.

If ten percent of all the human race that is gay were to suddenly, totally refrain from procreation, I think it is safe to say that the world would probably be significantly better off. One of the world's most serious problems is overpopulation and the increasing anarchy and human misery that is resulting from it. Seems to me that gays would be doing the world a really big favor by not bringing more hungry mouths into a world that is already critically overburdened ecologically by the sheer number of humans it must support. So what is the useful purpose to be served in mindlessly encouraging yet more human reproduction?

Same-sex marriage would threaten the institution of marriage. Well, that one's contradictory right on the face of it. Threaten marriage? By allowing people to marry? That doesn't sound very logical to me. If you allow gay people to marry each other, you no longer encourage them to marry people to whom they feel little attraction, with whom they most often cannot relate adequately sexually, bringing innocent children into already critically stressed marriages. By allowing gay marriage, you would reduce the number of opposite-sex marriages that end up in the divorce courts. If it is the stability of the institution of heterosexual marriage that worries you, then consider that no one would require you or anyone else to participate in a gay marriage. You would still have freedom of choice, of choosing which kind of marriage to participate in -- something more than what you have now. And speaking of divorce -- to argue that the institution of marriage is worth preserving at the cost of requiring involuntary participants to remain in it is a better argument for reforming divorce laws than proscribing gay marriage.


 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 2:56 PM on July 5, 2005 | IP
thelmoose

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It is amazing that no one has replied to you in 6 or 7 months. Your extremely thoughtful and cogent arguments are difficult to refute. No one has responded because you posted with intelligence and restraint.

I applaud your post. I also happen to agree with everything. Thanks for posting.


 


Posts: 40 | Posted: 6:07 PM on February 22, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Actually, most of us pretty much ignored this post after getting to If you allow gay people to marry each other, you no longer encourage them to marry people to whom they feel little attraction, with whom they most often cannot relate adequately sexually, bringing innocent children into already critically stressed marriages.  Like not allowing gay marriage somehow FORCES people to marry the opposite sex.  Nobody FORCES anyone to marry anyone.  What was the point in answering the ludicrous?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 10:25 PM on February 22, 2006 | IP
thelmoose

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First, that part of aznboiz1993's post was a pretty minor aspect of the whole, I am not sure why you address it. Anyway, it is far from ludicrous. Have you no concept of societal pressure? People marry (and make many other life-altering decisions)  for the wrong reasons all the time. We feel pressure to marry to please the parents, the community, the church and to marry someone who is wrong for us. Surely someone as strong minded as you never experiences societal pressure. Perhaps some people never feel the tremendous pressure to conform because they are already  conformist. Those whose behavior is mainstream may have real difficulty appreciating the pain of being outside the mainstream. Have you any concept of the self-loathing one would feel to be told that an immutable aspect of one's being is perverse and disgusting? It is no surprise why one might hope to conform and marry someone "to whom they feel little attraction, with whom they most often cannot relate adequately sexually." It is a common and easily understandable phenomenon.
 


Posts: 40 | Posted: 1:25 PM on February 23, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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So we should change things for the "weak minded"?  Is that the gist of your post?


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 4:16 PM on February 23, 2006 | IP
thelmoose

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No, I was suggesting nothing of the kind.

I was merely pointing out that there are completely understandable and very commonly occuring reasons for the behavior you pointed out as an example of why you thought the original post was ludicrous.
 


Posts: 40 | Posted: 12:33 PM on February 24, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Actually, succumbing to peer pressure is not "completely understandable" nor is it a good reason for anything.  Do something because it is right, regardless of what everyone else is doing.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:57 PM on February 24, 2006 | IP
thelmoose

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I never said "succumbing to peer pressure". You really shouldn't comment on something that is clearly foreign to you.

Is this supposed to be debate? You made a comment on a very small part of an extensive and thoughtful argument. You missed the point of the original post and missed the point of my comments. You, instead, use as argument spurious comments and distraction from the topic at hand with phrases like "weak-minded" and "peer pressure". This is silly to continue, this Bill O'Reilly school of rhetoric.
 


Posts: 40 | Posted: 3:31 PM on February 24, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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You are the one who brought up that I was "strong minded" as opposed to those who married people they weren't attracted to.  What precisely is the opposit of "strong minded" if not "weak minded"?

As for "peer pressure" I quote from your post...
We feel pressure to marry to please the parents, the community, the church and to marry someone who is wrong for us.  I assumed that you meant "peer pressure" by this.  I thought it was a much smaller choice of words than copying your post verbatim, so I used it.  My apologies if it confused anyone out there.  You commented on why you thought no one had refuted his post and I gave you a reason.  Why you do not wish to accept my reason for not refuting his post at face value, I don't know.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 4:15 PM on February 24, 2006 | IP
Jake19

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Most Gays go until they are 15-20 pretending to be straight just to please society and because they have been taught that they are disgusting. When a gay persom is told from a very young age that homosexuality is wrong it create fear within them. Not that they are weak minded but that they just don't want to be an outcast.
Now we can assume that some make it past the 20 year mark and remain pretending and then marry and then have children and have an incomplete and unstable life. I think that was the bottom point and a very good one at that. The fact is even after you posted you still could not refute anything he had to say and that just proves you are picking at the fine details to try destroy something substantial and concrete.


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~*JaKe*~
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 8:05 PM on March 1, 2006 | IP
    
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