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masterphillip666

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Yes I support Gay Marriage.
I also support freedom of opinion & freedom to voice your opinion.


 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 2:35 PM on October 9, 2005 | IP
77752

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Hi There everyone, I'm 77752, my name was supposed to be 7752 but due to a little mess up in registration, I've had to make a little change to my name, anyway, I've just spent 1/2 an hour slowly reading through all of the posts on this topic and thought I'd give a little advice and support for those in favour of Same-Sex marriage, my father is a politician voting against the legalisation of Same-Sex Marriage, and has recently told me why he is opposed to the idea.

To make an effective arguement, there are a few pointers to follow, I'm not going to mention them all in case those who oppose Same-Sex Marriage follow them, but in case those who are in favour of legalised Same-Sex marriage would like a comprehensive list of how to make an effective arguement, they can E-Mail me for it at bigboss45@blueyonder.co.uk.

OK, a thing that can help in argueing is knowing where your opposition gets their ideas from, my father has told me that we need Homosexuality to be kept out of marriage because we need someone to feel better than, many Americans take pride in being American, and by that I mean a  Patriotic, Christian Far Right Wing Conservative, and to maintain this "Greatness" we need someone to feel greater than, it is usually other countries that don't have the prospects we have that we feel greater than, at one point, it was the blacks, now it's Homosexuals.  Also, there is a common arguement that legalising Same-Sex marriage would lead to legalised Polygamy as changing the definition of marriage once will mean more chance of changing the definition of marriage again, and again, this is of course a little Propaganda used to scare the uninformed into hating Same-Sex marriage, and even Homosexuals themselves.  There is of course a lot of Propaganda used in the opposition of legalised Same-Sex marriage, for example, when politicians argue that legalised Same-Sex Marriage will ruin the institution of marriage and devalue the meaning of Opposite-Sex marriage, they are again trying to scare those Heterosexual couples who take pride in being married so that they feel that if Same-Sex marriage is made legal, then their commited relationship will become worthless.
Getting back to knowing your opposition, you all need to understand why your opposition is fighting for their cause, those who are opposed to legalised Same-Sex marriage are opposed to it because they beleive that it is a breach to their pride, and in the case of religious conservatives, they are only trying to defend the respect that their religion has maintained for thousands of years, imagine being respected for thousands of years and then losing that respect because of a minority of people.  On the other hand, those in favour of legalised Same-Sex marriage are in favour because people are being denied the marry, imagine, regardless of your sexuality that you are being denied the right to marry your partner because your partner has a different origional hair colour to you, you would be deeply offended, you love this person and would be ready to live with them forever, but you can't because of something so minor.

I think I've covered everything I need to for now, sorry if it looks a bit messy, I'm doing this in Homework time, and my dad's behind me watching TV.

Thank you for reading, I'm new to this, so I'm happy to receive any feedback, be it advice, critisism, or whatever, i just hope I've wrote something contructive.


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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 8:47 PM on August 20, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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you love this person and would be ready to live with them forever, but you can't because of something so minor.


Why can't you love someone and live with them forever without a piece of paper?  Aren't most homosexual couples already living with each other?  Don't get me wrong, there may be a few homosexuals out there waiting until marriage before they have sex or start living together, but I haven't heard of any.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 9:34 PM on August 20, 2006 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

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Why can't you love someone and live with them forever without a piece of paper?  Aren't most homosexual couples already living with each other?  Don't get me wrong, there may be a few homosexuals out there waiting until marriage before they have sex or start living together, but I haven't heard of any.


Yeah, marriage is useless and unnecessary. Beats me why so many millions of people in the U.S. get married when all you need is love.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:27 PM on August 20, 2006 | IP
77752

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I agree that you can love someone without marriage but being married is a way of expressing your love to everyone, but if marriage is the way of expressing your love to everyone, then why can't you do that too, if it's pointless to get married when all you need is love, then why does anyone get married?

I myself have a brother living in New York who hasn't had sex with his boyfriend for 3 Years, he's waiting until he can get married first.

The Bible's effect on the law, court, government etc is diminshing, people's need to do things that are sinful is more powerful than people's need to follow an ancient book.

If the bible was made the law right down to the last word and fully reinforced worldwide, then Homosexuals, Bisexuals, those who performed sex before marriage, commiters of sodomy, those who commited lust, anyone who spoke against their parents, all wives who were not commited slaves, and anyone who spoke or thought against The Christian God, everyone who assisted in abortion or euthanasia, anyone who swore, those who found anything other than God and the family precious, as well as many others would be put to death, that's over 99% of the human race, so it's no wonder the bible is loosing it's effect on people, it expects us to do the nearly impossible.


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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 6:28 PM on August 21, 2006 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

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I agree that you can love someone without marriage but being married is a way of expressing your love to everyone, but if marriage is the way of expressing your love to everyone, then why can't you do that too, if it's pointless to get married when all you need is love, then why does anyone get married?


That was my point. It was sarcasm, chap.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 8:35 PM on August 21, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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The Bible's effect on the law, court, government etc is diminshing, people's need to do things that are sinful is more powerful than people's need to follow an ancient book.

If the bible was made the law right down to the last word and fully reinforced worldwide, then Homosexuals, Bisexuals, those who performed sex before marriage, commiters of sodomy, those who commited lust, anyone who spoke against their parents, all wives who were not commited slaves, and anyone who spoke or thought against The Christian God, everyone who assisted in abortion or euthanasia, anyone who swore, those who found anything other than God and the family precious, as well as many others would be put to death, that's over 99% of the human race, so it's no wonder the bible is loosing it's effect on people, it expects us to do the nearly impossible.


Ok, first of all, you have really weird concept of the word "need".

Second of all, you've obviously never bothered to read the New Testament.  Let me know when you finish it.  Then we can talk.  Committed slaves.  What a hoot!

Third.  What precisely is wrong with living your life according to the bible?  What's wrong with not killing unborn babies?  What's wrong with waiting for marriage to start a family?  What's wrong with speaking like an intelligent person instead of a vulgar smurf?  "I only know one word and I use it as a noun, verb, adjective and adverb.  Take away cussing and I might have to open a dictionary."

Fourth.  You really believe that over 99% of the human race do all the things (or even most of the things) you just listed?

Fifth.  Loosing its effect?  I don't remember it tightening its effect.

Sixth.  It expects you to do the impossible?  You must have a very low opinion of yourself to believe that what the bible expects is above your ability.

Last.  We don't live in a morally decaying society because the bible is "outdated".  We live in a morally decaying society because, as people have turned away from their values it has become more socially acceptable to do so.  Ever notice how many people who "take a semester" off from college never seem to get back?  It's easier not to.  Same for people who quit going to church.  It's easier not to.  It's like the little kid who gets caught stealing.  He knows that he did something wrong and he doesn't want to hear about it.  He can't wait for his parents to quit yelling at him so he can just get on with his life.  People who are wrong usually tend to avoid anyone who actually has the werewithal to get up and tell them they are wrong.  They'd rather hang out with people who say "I'm ok, you're ok" so that they can do whatever they want and still feel good about themselves.  It's called a sered conscience.  Until society gets rid of its "watching out for number one" attitude, things are only going to get more depraved.  Just the other day some guy wanted to fight me because I had the nerve to honk my horn at him.  Of course he was ignoring the fact that he blew a stop sign and hung a left right in front of my car without so much as a turn signal.  "Nobody tells me what to do!"  Truth probably is that if I'd done the same thing to him he still would've wanted to fight.  People today want to do whatever makes them happy and nobody else better get in their way or tell them that it is wrong.  We have preachers today who are going to jail for reading the bible INSIDE the building where their congregation meets.  Why?  Because the bible says that somebody is doing something wrong and people don't want to hear it.  Like I alluded to over in the abortion forum, we have expected less and less of each generation for at least the last four or five decades (and no, I'm not that old) and each generation has succeeded in living up to our lower and lower expectations.  All I ever hear is "you can't expect people to be able to live up to this or that".  Why not?  People expected it for centuries.  The higher the expectation, the better the usual result.  There is a proverb (don't have it in front of me, so pardon me if I mutilate it) that goes something along the lines of "If you aim at the stars and miss, you may still hit the eagle.  If you aim at the eagle and miss, you will likely hit the ground."  Expect more of yourself and you may just surprise yourself.  


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 12:31 AM on August 22, 2006 | IP
77752

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I have a low opinion of myself?  I didn't say that it expects us to do the impossible, I said the nearly impossible, and I'm talking about abiding the bible (The Old and New Testament) to the maximum extent.
There are of course decent people like you, EMyers, that beleive that human rights are at times more important than obeying the bible, and I respect you for that, but I'm talking about Christian Extremists like Robert T Lee, who beleives that The Bible should be put above everything, even the right to exercise free will, and it's people like that who make me worry that America will turn into a country where Christianity is lived, breathed and anyone who thinks otherwise treated like dirt off the bottom of everyones shoes.
When I said over 99% of the human race would be put to death, I meant people who did any one of those things, even those who commited lust even once, I didn't mean that over 99% of the human race is Homosexual/Bisexual, has sex before marriage, helps towards euthanasia and abortion, commits sodomy and hates The Christian God.

By the way, when I said the bible is loosing it's effect on people, I'm talking about it's effect gradually diminishing starting from thousands of years ago, when Christianity was the basis of society.

And on the topic of Abortion, you need to consider that there are several reasons why someone would want to abort, for example, if a woman is raped, then she would not want a constant reminder of it, if the woman was abandoned by the father, and she couldn't possibly give the baby everything it needed, then why put the baby through dying of malnutrition when it could be aborted with no suffering whatsoever?  Sometimes taking life can be for the better.

Oh, and when I said "need to do things that are sinful", I meant people lusting, urge to have sex before marriage, have sex with someone of the same gender, and so on, I didn't mean peoples' direct need to sin to annoy The Christian God.


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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 7:27 PM on August 22, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Again, my question is why do they "need" to do these things?  I can't think of a single sin that people "need" to do.  

Loosing : To let loose; release

That sentence doesn't make any sense to me.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 7:34 PM on August 22, 2006 | IP
77752

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People need to do things like have sex before marriage because it's in their hormones, people have sex with others of the same gender because they are born that way, and their hormones make them that way, people steal because usually because they have been brought up badly or because their need to have something without paying for it is more poweful than their will to cope without it, people need lie to get out of trouble, and so on, people don't need to do sinful things out of no-where.

And I'm too sure you and me are both and the same wavelength about Christianity loosing it's effect on people, what I mean is it's effect on government, etc is diminishing.


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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 12:30 AM on August 23, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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One, you have a messed up concept of the word "need".

Two, I think you mean "losing".


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 07:57 AM on August 23, 2006 | IP
77752

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One: Would you rather instead of Need I used Want, it has a more phychological meaning, need gives the idea that something is physically needed like food.

Two: I didn't realise I used the wrong spelling of the word Lose, LMAO, Note to self: Spelling mistakes can cause massive cockups.


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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 4:27 PM on August 23, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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One: That, I will agree with.

Two: Don't feel too bad.  You'd be surprised how many get "lose" wrong.  "Rogue" is another big one.  Can't tell you how many people I've found who think they are playing "rouges" on some game or are playing with a "rouge" deck.  What women's makeup has to do with, I've no idea.    Anyone who can spell "I'll get the check" is fine with me.  


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 7:20 PM on August 23, 2006 | IP
77752

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I think we've got so caught up in debating definitions and meanings, we've forgot what this forum was about, I've seen forums deleted in the past because they went so far off topic, does anyone here have any arguements about Gay Marriage that haven't been used yet, someone may have mentioned this before on this topic, but is the issue of Same-Sex Marriage more important than the others, I might be wrong, but I think that Bush is scapegoating Homosexuals to distract from the more important issues in America.
Christianity has become quite a thing in the culture of American society, 75% of Americans are Christian, so it's no suprise that when Bush suggested a constitutional amendment banning Gay Marriage, the majority of America agreed with him, personally, I see Bush as someone who says what the public want him to say, on August 27, 1987, when Bush was campaigning for presidency, one of his stops were at Chicago, Illinois, at O'Hare Airport, where he held a formal outdoor news conference.  A reporter for American Atheists, Robert I Sherman, had the following exchange with Vice President Bush:

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.

Personally, if I heard someone voting for presidency saying that to me, I'd be insulted, according to a survey, Atheists are viewed as less American than Blacks, Gays, Lesbians, Immigrants and Muslims, now I'm not implying that it's the other way around, but Atheists aren't given a fair share of respect in society in general, but getting back to Bush, he's more of a man who does what the majority wants than a decider, I don't mean to beat about the bush (lol), but would he do something if it was of great benefit to America, but lost him almost all of his votes, for example, legalising Same-Sex marriage?

My point in general is Why do we have a president like Bush when all that he does is says what the majority of Americans think, if that's his only function then congratulations Americans, you've all been elected President of The United States of America! Give Yourselves a pat on the back!


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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 12:57 AM on August 24, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Well, considering he was willing to enter a war almost no one seems to want and is much criticized, I'd say he doesn't always follow the opinion polls.  As far as "American Atheists", I tend to wonder how they handle the hypocrisy.  They handle money that says "In God we trust".  They have a national pledge that includes the word "God".  And you can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Supreme Court building have a motiff with Moses holding up the ten commandments on it?  You find me an atheist that would categorically refuse to accept $1,000,000 in American cash because his convictions won't allow him to accept money with the word "God" on it and I'd be more likely to listen to him.

On a more topical point , I doubt you will find any more arguments for gay-marriage that haven't already been expounded upon.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 01:10 AM on August 24, 2006 | IP
77752

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I understand where you're coming from EMyers, but to be an Atheist who refuses to handle money that says "In God we trust" would just be fussy, not all, in fact most Atheists aren't going to kick a tantrum about everything around them being In God we trust this and Oh heavenly father that, if an Atheist got ticked off by everything and everyone who was somehow associated with the idea of The Christian God, think about all of the Americans who have a different religion to Christianity, America at the moment is a Christian nation under Bush and anyone else is welcome to live in America so long as they accept that they are a tolerated minority rather than equal citizens, this is just the way it is going to be until America fully grasps the idea of the separation of the church and the state, the Atheist population is large enough to take critisism, but not large enough for enough people to care about the way they are treated by other Americans, it's discrimination but the megalomaniac bigots who run the government are too blind to see it.

And since this topic is out of points, what about the Idea of Straight Camp, it's probably for another topic, but who here thinks that sexuality is a choice rather than something that you're born with?  That's the idea that these Christian Conservatives have got stuck in their heads, what would you think if your parents sent you to straight camp after telling them that you're Gay?


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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 7:11 PM on August 24, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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As opposed to gay camp after telling them your straight?  I'm really not trying to be sarcastic here, I honestly don't know where this "straight camp" thing is going.  If this is something that is really happening, I missed it (can't keep up to date on everything ).  Even from a Christian standpoint, I think it makes about as much sense as "truth camp" if you're a liar, or "hands off camp" if you're a thief.  Which isn't much, in case you're not following my drift.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 8:46 PM on August 24, 2006 | IP
77752

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As sad as the idea of Straight camp is, there is one actually running in America, I've had a quick look around on Google, but I can't find out which state it's running in, it's probably disclosed from the public for privacy, but if you type in Straight Camp in Google, you'll find all sorts of News Articles about the issue, there's a 16 Year old lad called Zach who was sent to this Straight Camp after he told his parents he was Gay, ironically, the organisation running this camp is called "Love in Action"

He kept a blog of what happened on his MySpace account, here are the rules at this camp:

Refuge Program Rules
Exceptions to program rules will be granted by C.O.C. (Chain of Command) only.



Sobriety


One of the core functions of the Refuge is the common pursuit of corporate sobriety from sin. The program strives to perpetuate a safe environment that is ripe for growth and for hearing from God. The sobriety of each individual is a key focus.

Galatians 5:19 - 21: 19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envying, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:12-15: 12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are expedient. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be brought under the power of anything. 13 "Foods for the belly, and the belly for foods," but God will bring to nothing both it and them. But the body is not for sexual immorality, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 14 Now God raised up the Lord, and will also raise us up by his power. 15 Don't you know that your bodies are members of Christ? Will I then take away the members of Christ, and make them members of a prostitute? Certainly not!

1 Corinthians 6:18: 18 Flee sexual immorality. "Every sin that a man does is outside the body," but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

1 Thessalonians 4:2-5: 2 For you know what charge we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to possess himself of his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust...

1. No smoking, alcohol, drugs, or inappropriate use of over-the-counter medications. All prescription drugs and over-the-counter medications must be left in the care of a parent or guardian, who will administer them when necessary. Refuge clients may not have prescription or over-the-counter drugs in their possession at any time, exceptions by C.O.C. approval only.

2. No sexual/emotional misconduct. Any temptations, fantasies, or dreams are to be presented to oneıs staff worker only. Sexual misconduct includes viewing pornography, visiting an adult bookstore, emotional dependency, voyeurism, stalking, masturbation, mutual masturbation, or any form of genital or sexual contact with another person. Sexual temptation, as well as the above, is not to be discussed between clients. This includes MI's (Moral Inventories) written on current sexual struggles or temptations).

3. No hugging or physical touch between clients. Brief handshakes or a brief affirmative hand on a shoulder is allowed (exception is when observed by therapeutic accountability).

4. Clients are to remain within the ³safe zone² while in the program. This "zone" is illustrated on a map of the Memphis area in the office. An exception is for clients who reside or are staying outside the safe zone, and commuting to the Love in Action campus.





Hygiene


Small unhealthy habits can either reflect or lead to dysfunctional, life-controlling habits. Attention to the details of daily lifestyle is a pivotal aspect of residential recovery.

Luke 10:27: 27 He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."

Luke 16:10: 10 He who is faithful in a very little is faithful also in much. He who is unrighteous in a very little is also unrighteous in much.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20: 19 Or don't you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

Psalm 139:13-14: 13 For you formed my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 I will give thanks to you, For I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. My soul knows that very well.

1. All clients must maintain appropriate hygiene, including daily showering, use of deodorant, and brushing teeth twice daily.
Men: Men must remove all facial hair seven days weekly, and sideburns must not fall below the top of the ear (the top
of the ear is defined as where the ear meets the face below the temple). Clean business-like haircuts must be worn at all
times. Hair must be long enough to be pinched between two fingers.
Women: Women must shave legs and underarms at least twice weekly.
All: Only natural hair color is allowed. Hair that is colored, highlighted or streaked, mut be dyed back to its original color, or the color must be cut out before entrance into the Refuge program.

2. Attire: General
Modesty is expected. No tight, provocative, or suggestive clothing or spandex may be worn. No provocative or
suggestive mannerisms are permitted. Fresh undergarments are to be worn at all times. Boxer shorts of any kind are
considered underwear and are not to be worn as outer clothing. All clients must be dressed appropriately in clean,
unwrinkled clothes when leaving the house for the day. Men may not wear any jewelry (other than a watch and a wedding band) unless approved through a C.O.C. In addition to a watch and wedding band, women may also wear a pair of simple earrings (one earring per ear.) The clients may not wear Abercrombie and Fitch or Calvin Klein brand clothing, undergarments, or accessories.
Men: Shirts are to be worn at all times, even while sleeping. T-shirts without sleeves are not permitted at any time,
whether worn as an outer garment or an undergarment. This includes ³muscle shirts² or other tank-tops. Bikini-style underwear is prohibited.
Women: Bras must be worn at all times, except while sleeping. Thong-style underwear is prohibited.

Attire: LIA Campus
In addition to the General Attire above, the following items apply. No torn, ragged, or stained clothing is to be worn at
any time while on campus. Monday through Thursday, clients must wear pants, a clean shirt, and shoes or sandals with
socks. Jeans and a nice t-shirt are acceptable. On Friday, clients may wear clean, knee-length khaki or denim-style shorts.
No athletic or excessively baggy shorts may be worn on campus at any time. No hats, jackets, or overcoats are to be
worn on campus
Women: In addition to these guidelines, women may also wear skirts which fall at or below the knee. Women may wear
tank-tops only if they are worn with an over-blouse. Women may wear open-toed shoes or womenıs dress sandals
without socks. Bras must be worn at all times, except while sleeping. Sports bras may only be worn while working out.
No sleeveless blouses may be worn. All blouses and t-shirts must fit modestly (not extremely tight).

3. No cologne, perfume, or use of other highly scented hygiene products.

Therapeutic & Staff Issues



A goal of the Source is to be purposeful and strategic in order to help clients pursue growth and transformation. The principles below are common elements of this plan.

Romans 13:1-5: 1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who be are ordained by God. 2 Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands theordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same, 4 for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn't bear the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil. 5 Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscienceıs sake.

Hebrews 13:17: 17 Obey those who have the rule over you, and submit to them, for they watch on behalf of your souls, as those who will give account, that they may do this with joy, and not with groaning, for that would be unprofitable for you.


1. HONESTY AT ALL TIMES.




2. IF IN DOUBT, DONıT. ASK FIRST.



3. All clients are expected to memorize the Program Expectations as they summarize the spirit and heart of the rules of Love in Action.

4. All Refuge program members must complete four MI's (Moral Inventories) per week unless otherwise instructed. Detailed instruction on writing MIıs will be provided within the first few days of beginning the program.

5. Refuge clients will be prepared to give an Introduction (³Intro²) at every Intro Rap. Detailed instruction on giving an intro will be provided within the first few days of the program.

6. To make special requests of the staff or inform the staff of something (e.g. asking permission to leave the safe zone for some reason, informing the staff of a breach in program rules, etc.), Refuge clients must communicate appropriately. This means filling out a Chain of Command (C.O.C.) form. All C.O.C.ıs must be signed by the Refuge clientıs parent or guardian before being submitted to a staff member, or the C.O.C. will be returned with no answer. All C.O.C.ıs must be concise and not ³story tell² or ³whine.² Such will be returned with no reply.

7. No continuing education while in the program. Home-school Refuge clients may be allowed to continue their studies during the program, pending approval by LIA staff.

6. Refuge clients and their parents/guardians are required to attend Love in Actionıs host church, Germantown Baptist Church, on Sunday mornings. More information about GBC can be found online at www.gbconline.net.

7. Parents and guardians are expected to attend the Friends and Family support group on Thursday nights from 7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m., held at the Love in Action campus. Refuge clients will be supervised during this time by a Love in Action staff member.

8. Refuge clients and their parents/guardians are expected to attend Love in Actionıs Open Meetings whenever they occur, held on the first Tuesday of every month at Kirby Woods Baptist Church at 7:30 p.m.

9. Refuge clients are expected to maintain a committed pursuit of a positive and thankful attitude.

10. Absolutely no journaling or keeping a diary outside of the MI process unless directed or approved by staff.

11. Absolutely no calling staff outside business hours unless it is an emotional, therapeutic, or physical emergency, or unless prior permission from staff has been obtained.

12. Additional (i.e. beyond one per week) one-on-one counseling sessions will be granted by C.O.C. appointment only.
False Image (FI) Concerns



Through the Source, God renews clientsı minds and lives, helping them to put off the old self and put on the new. False images are items or behaviors that are of the old self.

Proverbs 8:6-8: 6 Hear, for I will speak excellent things. The opening of my lips is for right things. 7 For my mouth speaks truth. Wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness. There is nothing crooked or perverse in them.

Ephesians 4:17-25: 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their hearts; 19 who having become callous gave themselves up to lust, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you did not learn Christ that way; 21 if indeed you heard him, and were taught in him, even as truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put away, as concerning your former way of life, the old man, that grows corrupt after the lusts of deceit; 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new man, that like God has been created in righteousness and holiness of truth. 25 Therefore, putting away falsehood, speak truth each one with his neighbor. For we are members one of another.

1. LIA wants to encourage each client, male and female, by affirming his/her gender identity. LIA also wants each client to pursue integrity in all of his/her actions and appearances. Therefore, any belongings, appearances, clothing, actions, or humor that might connect a client to an inappropriate past are excluded from the program. These hindrances are called False Images (FIıs). FI behavior may include hyper-masculinity, seductive clothing, mannish/boyish attire (on women), excessive jewelry (on men), mascoting, and "campy" or gay/lesbian behavior and talk.

2. As non-residential clients, Refuge participants must submit to an F.I. search every morning. With the exception of the very first program day, when they may arrive no later than 9:00 a.m., Refuge clients will arrive daily at the Love in Action campus no later than 8:50 a.m., waiting in a designated area until a staff member meets them to perform the F.I. search and check them in. Refuge clients may not enter any of the client spaces on campus before submitting to an F.I. search. All belongings brought to campus will be searched, including book bags, notebooks, wallets, handbags, purses, etc. Items that violate the F.I. policy or the dress code will be held for the client, to be returned no later than the clientıs last day in program. Clients may request to have their F.I. items returned by filling out a C.O.C.

3. All photographs will be taken for the purpose of sobering re-evaluation. Clients may request to have pictures returned to them via C.O.C.

4. Refuge clients will not be allowed to use personally owned computers during the program, whether on campus or at home/in temporary lodging. Computer stations are normally available on campus when clients need to type something.

5. Clients should report all FI's (with discretion), whether their own or another's, to staff.





Campus Rules


LIA honors clientsı confidentiality and time. A campus structure has been established that will ensure a fair and balanced approach to every client.

1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

1. No visiting or entering staff offices unless prior permission is given.

2. While on the LIA campus, Refuge clients must be in phase at all times, whether indoors or out of doors. A client is ³in phase² when he or she is with two or more other clients (whether Refuge or residential,) one of whom must have been in the program for at least eight weeks. Exceptions to phase rules will be granted by C.O.C. request only.

3. Further campus rules which are still being developed and revised will be communicated to Refuge clients on their arrival.



Relationship Issues


Emotional dependency and inappropriate sexual behaviors have their roots in unresolved relationship issues as well as poor personal or relational boundaries. As a key part to his/her recovery, each clientıs program will focus significant attention on resolving relationship concerns and cultivating healthy relationships, both within and outside of the program.

Psalm 133:1-3: 1 See how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to live together in unity! 2 It is like the precious oil on the head, That ran down on the beard, Even Aaron's beard; That came down on the edge of his robes; 3 Like the dew of Hermon, That comes down on the hills of Zion: For there Yahweh gives the blessing, Even life forevermore.

Romans 15:5-6: 5 Now the God of patience and of comfort grant you to be of the same mind one with another according to Christ Jesus, 6 that with one accord you may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 17:22 The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

Ephesians 4:1-3: 1 I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and humility, with long suffering, bearing with one another in love; 3 being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

1. No physical violence or physically threatening dialogue. Violation of this rule warrants immediate dismissal from the program.

2. No breaching another person's confidentiality to anyone outside the program.

3. No talking behind another person's back (TBB).

4. The 24-hour rule is to be used after challenging another client who is in breach of the program rules. If one notices that another clientıs inappropriate behavior continues, the client should be challenged to report to staff. If in 24 hours he/she has not done so, one is required to report the breach to staff via C.O.C. or verbal communication.

5. Due to the nature of many gender identity struggles, issues of enmeshment and emotional dependency can develop not only with same sex, but sometimes even more easily with the opposite sex. Because healthy and appropriate same and opposite-sex relationships are encouraged, dating and exclusive relationships of any kind are prohibited while in the program.

6. Clients may have no contact with anyone who has left the program prior to graduating without the blessing of the staff to do so. Clients may address off-limit persons they inadvertently encounter with a polite "hello" only.

7. While in the program, clients may have no contact with anyone involved in unrepentant emotional dependencies, inappropriate sexual behaviors, or chemical dependencies. This includes any contact with friends struggling with dependency issues or inappropriate sexual behavior that was known about prior to entering the program. If such a person is encountered, the client must make his/her staff worker aware of this.

8. Refuge clients and their parents/guardians will be participating in off-campus events and meetings where non-program strugglers are in attendance. To encourage the safety of all involved, clients are required to be in phase when communicating with non-program strugglers at these meetings, and will be prohibited from establishing contact with them outside of the these meetings.


Safekeeping Rules


1. All new Refuge clients will be placed into Safekeeping for the initial two to three days of their program. A client on safekeeping may not communicate verbally, or by using hand gestures or eye contact, with any other clients, staff members, or his/her parents or guardians. In case of a practical need, Safekeeping clients may write down their question or request and show it to another client, staff member, or their parent or guardian. Writing may only be used when absolutely necessary. Parents and guardians must enforce their childıs safekeeping status at home or in their temporary lodging.

2. Refuge clients may C.O.C. to be removed from Safekeeping status. Safekeeping clients will be removed from Safekeeping at their staffworkerıs discretion.

3. Any client may be placed into Safekeeping at any time, at a staffworkerıs discretion.

4. Safekeeping clients are permitted to say ³hello² and to communicate enough information to be courteous in public interaction (mostly in the clientsı church setting).

5. Safekeeping clients are required to spend a minimum of two hours (in one sitting) a day alone in their room (note: by ³alone² it is understood that parents or guardians can be in the room but are not to interact or disrupt the alone time of the safekeeping client). During the alone time Safekeeping clients may work on their treatment plans, read program materials or the Bible, pray, or work on other assignments from their staffworkers.

6. In the evenings, all Refuge Safekeeping clients must remain at home or at their temporary lodging with their parent or guardian (i.e. no going out to eat, to the store, etc. during Safekeeping.)

7. Non-Safekeeping clients are responsible to protect and uphold the Safekeeping parameters of the Safekeeping clients.


Rules for the Home/Temporary Lodging


Hebrews 6:11-12: 11 We desire that each one of you may show the same diligence to the fullness of hope even to the end, 12 that you won't be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherited the promises.

Ephesians 4:22-24: 22 that you put away, as concerning your former way of life, the old man, that grows corrupt after the lusts of deceit; 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new man, that like God has been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.

Refuge encourages all clients to first focus internally. Why is the client here? What is broken? What is the core motivation of the clientıs unhealthy behavior? Staff members will work with clients as they learn what is wrong and as they take the steps to articulate it. Second, staff emphasize the need for each client to seek the truth of God. What does He have to say about each client and his/her pain? The rules that follow are designed to both protect the client and facilitate his/her wrestling with God.

Colossians 3:9-10: 9 Don't lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his doings, 10 and have put on the new man, that is being renewed in knowledge after the image of his Creator...

1 Kings 9:4: 4 As for you, if you will walk before me, as David your father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded you, and will keep my statutes and my ordinances...

Psalm 7:8-9: 8 Yahweh administers judgment to the peoples. Judge me, Yahweh, according to my righteousness, And to my integrity that is in me.9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end, But establish the righteous; Their minds and hearts are searched by the righteous God.

Proverbs 10:9: 9 He who walks blamelessly walks surely, But he who perverts his ways will be found out.

Proverbs 11:2-3: 2 When pride comes, then comes shame, But with humility comes wisdom. 3 The integrity of the upright shall guide them, But the perverseness of the treacherous shall destroy them.

Proverbs 13:13: 13 Whoever despises instruction will pay for it, But he who respects a command will be rewarded.

Proverbs 20:7: 7 A righteous man who walks in his integrity, Blessed are his children after him.

Genesis 32:24-28: 24 Jacob was left alone, and wrestled with a man there until the breaking of the day. 25 When he saw that he didn't prevail against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh, and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was strained, as he wrestled. 26 The man said, "Let me go, for the day breaks." Jacob said, "I won't let you go, unless you bless me." 27 He said to him, "What is your name?" He said, "Jacob." 28 He said, "Your name will no longer be called 'Jacob,' but, 'Israel,' for you have fought with God and with men, and have prevailed."

1 Chronicles 29:18: 18 Yahweh, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this forever in the imagination of the thoughts of the heart of your people, and prepare their heart to you...

Isaiah 49:13-15: 13 Sing, heavens; and be joyful, earth; and break forth into singing, mountains: for Yahweh has comforted his people, and will have compassion on his afflicted. 14 But Zion said, Yahweh has forsaken me, and the Lord has forgotten me. 15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yes, these may forget, yet I will not forget you.

Matthew 9:36: 36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion for them, because they were weary and scattered, as sheep without a shepherd.

Matthew 14:14: 14 Jesus went out, and he saw a great multitude. He had compassion on them, and healed their sick.

Matthew 20:34: 34 Jesus, being moved with compassion, touched their eyes; and immediately their eyes received their sight, and they followed him.

Luke 10:40-42: 40 But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she came up to him, and said, "Lord, don't you care that my sister left me to serve alone? Ask her therefore to help me." 41 Jesus answered her, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, 42 but one thing is needed. Mary has chosen the good part, which will not be taken away from her."

Luke 10:29-30: 29 Jesus said, "Most assuredly I tell you, there is no one who has left house, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or land, for my sake, and for the gospel's sake, 30 but he will receive one hundred times now in this time, houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and land, with persecutions; and in the age to come eternal life.

Exodus 20:12: 12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which Yahweh your God gives you.

Malachi 4:6: 6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."

1. No discussing therapeutic issues at home. Keep conversations positive.

2. Clients must gain permission through C.O.C. to make or receive phone calls from friends and family members outside the program.

3. No cell phones, beepers, computers, or e-mail/internet access at. Exceptions by C.O.C. approval only.

4. No visitors from out of town without permission via C.O.C.

5. Refuge clients may only read materials approved by staff.

6. No television viewing, going to movies, or reading/watching/listening to secular media of any kind, anywhere within the clientıs and the parentıs/guardianıs control. This includes listening to classical or instrumental music that is not expressly Christian (Beethoven, Bach, etc. are not considered Christian). The only exception to the media policy is the weekly movie.

7. Refuge clients may watch one video/DVD per week that has been approved by staff via C.O.C. Movies submitted for approval must be rated G or PG. The parents/guardians are responsible for securing the video/DVD.

8. Weekend curfew (Friday and Saturday) is 10:00pm. Weekday curfew (Sunday through Thursday) is 9:30pm.

9. Refuge clients must be with at least one parent or guardian at all times when off-campus.

10. On certain occasions Refuge clients have the opportunity, with the C.O.C. approval and their parent/guardianıs permission, to visit the residential houses of the Source program clients. On these occasions Refuge clients must be in phase at all times, and must abide by all the house rules and follow instructions given by Source program house managers. House rules will be communicated to Refuge clients as the need arises. Refuge clients are encouraged to ask for clarification if they are unsure about a particular house rule.

11. Refuge clients may not enter any restuarants with bars, even when accompanied by a parent or guardian.

12. Refuge clients must be accompanied by a parent during any trip to a public restroom.

13. No access to malls of any kind.

14. Clients are not allowed to visit any video, music or media stores that are not expressly Christian, even if accompanied by a parent or guardian. Clients may visit LifeWay Christian stores with a parent or guardian.

15. Refuge clients must report off-casmpus emergencies, illnesses, or injuries to their parents/guardians as soon as possible. Parents/guardians are required to inform LIA staff members of such situations by phone as soon as possible.

16. Total silence time at home begins at 9:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday. Refuge clients may use this time for resting, but are encouraged to make a habit of using it for a nightly quiet time with God.

17. Lights-out time will begin each night at 10:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday.

18. Refuge clients are allowed a one-time 15-minute maximum closed bathroom door time for shower/grooming purposes. The only other closed-door alone time allowed is for using the restroom.

19. Refuge clients must keep their bedroom doors open at all times, day or night.

20. Proper bedclothes must be worn during nighttime sleeping hours. Appropriate bedclothes include full pajamas (tops and bottoms) or a pair of non-underwear-type shorts and a T-shirt. Nightgowns are not allowed.

21. Refuge clients are expected to eat dinner with their parents/guardians/other family members (if any) at least four times per week.

22. Refuge clients are expected to cook dinner one time per week.




On-Level Rules


³On-Level² is a protective and therapeutic measure that is sometimes implemented between clients who are having relational difficulties.

1. On-level clients may not speak to each other unless there is a potentially life-threatening emergency.

2. On-level clients are to spend no time alone with each other.

3. On-level clients are not allowed to ride in the same car unless C.O.C. permission has been granted, in which case, one must sit in the front of the car, and one must sit in the back of the car.

4. On-level clients, whenever in the same room, must always have exactly one person between them, whether sitting or standing. Planned activities such as church, Open Meetings, and socials are no exception.

5. On-level status can be initiated by any staff member or house manager.

6. On-level status can be removed only by Executive Staff.

Group Norms



1. Be honest, authentic, and real.

2. Active participation is expected. This includes body language and eye contact. No slouching in chairs, sitting back on chairs hind legs, sitting with arms crossed, rolling eyes, or making disgusting faces.

3. No attacking or demeaning another personıs character.

4. Raise hand to speak. Speak one at a time as called on by the facilitator.

5. Maintain strict confidentiality of everything discussed in group. "What is seen here, what is heard here, remains here!"

6. Clients are to sit in such a way as to not cause another to stumble.

7. No food or drink during rap. This includes chewing gum and toothpicks.

8. Appropriate attire is required. No hats, athletic or baggy shorts (for men), or extremely short skirts (for women) are allowed.

9. Say "I love you ___" after each person is finished relating.

10. Be on time!

11. Do not talk at, preach to, or teach one another. Each person should keep the focus on him/herself and how he/she feels.

12. Do not be defensive. While being spoken to, one may not respond to defend him/herself or return confrontation to the person speaking.

13. If one needs to leave the group for any reason, he/she must ask permission from the staff in charge of the group session.

14. Stand when speaking, relating, or being related to. During general raps, one must stand while relating. One must also stand when someone is being given feedback or being related to. Standing is not necessary during teaching raps.






Men/Women Dynamics


The following common courtesies apply to relational dynamics between men and women. While these are not rules and may initially feel a little awkward, they are strongly encouraged as practical guidelines to promote mutual respect and honor. It is LIAıs hope that these suggestions will become common practices and help to nurture a value of self and an appreciation for others.


Places of Honor for Women:

Respect for women may be shown by offering them first priority in a number of ways:

1. Please invite women (not just LIA clients) to be the first in line to eat.

2. Encourage women to accept the more comfortable seats in a room. Men should consider offering a woman their chair when there are none left in the room.

3. Men should think about opening doors for women, both when entering a building and when entering a car. This simply adds a level of respect, consideration, and value.


Honoring Both Genders:

Be mindful of the types of humor and communication used around one another. Jesting about bodily functions, discussing gender-specific issues when not in rap sessions (at the LIA office), and other conversation which could potentially be inappropriate to the opposite sex should be avoided.




Program Expectations


Therapeutic & Interpersonal Expectations


1. Clients are expected to affirm one another and edify their personal and corporate pursuit of growth and transformation. This includes a commitment to courageous honesty with respect, a commitment to sobriety in all manners of talk, action, and dress, the exercise of prudence, and honoring confidentiality and accountability.

2. Clients are expected to take responsibility for their environment and to inform appropriate authorities of program breaches. This is to be done using the 24-hour rule.

3. Clients are expected to give back. This includes watching out for oneıs brothers and sisters. It also includes the initiative of upper-phasers to provide accountability for lower-phasers.

4. Clients are expected to maintain a committed pursuit of a positive and thankful attitude.

5. Clients are expected to avoid peer-to-peer physical touch. Brief handshakes or a brief affirmative hand on a shoulder is allowed.

6. Clients are expected to actively identify and subsequently remove all personal and corporate FIıs.

7. Clients are expected to avoid therapeutic topics of discussion with House Managers.

8. Clients are expected to make their homework a priority. Phase 1 clients must complete four MIıs per week unless otherwise instructed. Phase 2 & Training clients must complete two MIıs per week unless otherwise instructed. Phase 1 clients will be prepared to do an Introduction at every Introduction Rap. All clients will be assigned a personalized treatment plan.

9. Clients are expected to plan ahead and communicate appropriately, following Chain of Command (C.O.C.) for any information or communication with staff.


Practical Expectations


1. All clients must maintain integrity in their personal presentation. This includes daily grooming and hygiene maintenance, bed-making, as well as regular bedroom and bathroom cleaning and maintenance.

2. Clients are expected to work either therapeutically or professionally Monday through Friday unless prior permission is granted through C.O.C. Clients who are not working are expected to be in the office.

3. Clients are expected to actively re-evaluate the influences of secular media. Phase 1 clients are restricted from television-viewing, internet access, secular media, or reading of any kind without specific permission. Clients may not enter any non-Christian bookstores. Phase 2 clients may use email and the internet at work for work purposes. Training program clients may listen to secular music. However, they may not listen to secular radio for the first 30 days. No secular music is allowed in residences or when around Phase 1 clients.

4. Clients are expected to honor their home environment by being on-time with cooking responsibilities, attending all weekly house meetings, dinner attendance, curfew, total silence, lights out, and by working cooperatively to complete all stewardships with a positive attitude.

5. Clients are expected to remain accountable with all relationships. No cell phones, phone calls, or contact with anyone
outside the program without prior permission. Phase 2 and Training Program clients may make approved relational phone calls.


---
Refuge Program * Parental Rules (not to be given to client)


1. No discussing therapeutic issues at home. Keep conversations positive.

2. Clients are to be picked up from the LIA office no later than 5:00pm each weekday.

3. Respect all Love In Action and Refuge rules. If you do not understand them, support the program in front of client at all times and gain clarification from LIA staff. Do not sabotage or defocus your client.

4. Donıt allow client to split your family. Unite to present stability and unity.

5. Your client is not allowed to talk to anyone outside of your home including friends or family. Do not tell client who has called for them or who is asking about them. Keep the thoughts of the client focused on his/her treatment.

6. The family needs interactive time together. It is very important that togetherness is the priority during this time. The client does not need extended time alone or with only one family member. The only exception is for Refuge clients who are from out-of-town and staying with a significant guardian while here.

7. Family dinner is encouraged to occur at least four times weekly.

8. The client is expected to cook dinner at least one time weekly.

9. The client is expected to complete a weekly cleaning regimen to your satisfaction.

10. Parents/guardians are asked to make themselves available for any special meetings deemed necessary for the successful treatment of their loved ones.

11. If there is an ³Open Meeting² during Refuge Program, parents/guardians are asked to attend to enhance their involvement with Refuge. Open meetings are held the first Tuesday of each month at 7:30pm at Kirby Woods Baptist Church (on the corner of Poplar Ave. and Massey; entrance is located at the ground floor on the east side of building entrance).

Consequences for Rule Violation:

1. Constructive criticism from the group.
2. Ten to thirty-page written paper on rule violation.
3. Program dismissal. This does not need to be addressed with the client (The client may sabotage his/her own program due to purposeful dismissal consequences).
4. Isolation from the group.

In America, we have something called "Religious Diversity" meaning that we have many different religions and many different beliefs of those religions, in Christianity for example, we have those who accept others regardless of gender, sexuality, race, etc, others who are uncomfortable with them, and some who take their dislike to the level of hate, bigotry, fear and violence, I don't mind people of any race, sexuality, etc, I base my opinions of people on how I see their personality, although a strong Atheist who dislikes religion because of it's way of telling people how to live their lives and not exercise free will, I accept people who have faith in their religion, I understand that it can bring happiness and joy to ones life, and can make them do good things, but when I see people who are using their freedom to take other people's freedom away, it annoys me, people have every right to live their lives the way they want, so long as it doesn't harm another’s wellbeing.

Imagine the next President suddenly turned against America's freedom of religion and with the army's full support (imagining that they obeyed) he issued the death penalty to each and every citizen who practiced their religion, you might be a bit scared, that's what certain groups like this so-called "Love in Action" are doing to Homosexuals, it's like a concentration camp for Homosexuals in America!



-------
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. Richard Armour
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 10:15 PM on August 24, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Wow, that was a lot of reading.  I'll admit I skimmed over most of it.  Most of these rules I have no problems with.  Nothing wrong with being modest.  Nothing wrong with opeing a door for a woman or offering her your chair.  Nothing wrong with a dress code (try joining the military or having a job).  Did have a few problems with a bunch of rules from this section.

1. No discussing therapeutic issues at home. Keep conversations positive.

2. Clients must gain permission through C.O.C. to make or receive phone calls from friends and family members outside the program.

3. No cell phones, beepers, computers, or e-mail/internet access at. Exceptions by C.O.C. approval only.

4. No visitors from out of town without permission via C.O.C.

5. Refuge clients may only read materials approved by staff.

6. No television viewing, going to movies, or reading/watching/listening to secular media of any kind, anywhere within the clientıs and the parentıs/guardianıs control. This includes listening to classical or instrumental music that is not expressly Christian (Beethoven, Bach, etc. are not considered Christian). The only exception to the media policy is the weekly movie.

7. Refuge clients may watch one video/DVD per week that has been approved by staff via C.O.C. Movies submitted for approval must be rated G or PG. The parents/guardians are responsible for securing the video/DVD.

8. Weekend curfew (Friday and Saturday) is 10:00pm. Weekday curfew (Sunday through Thursday) is 9:30pm.

9. Refuge clients must be with at least one parent or guardian at all times when off-campus.

10. On certain occasions Refuge clients have the opportunity, with the C.O.C. approval and their parent/guardianıs permission, to visit the residential houses of the Source program clients. On these occasions Refuge clients must be in phase at all times, and must abide by all the house rules and follow instructions given by Source program house managers. House rules will be communicated to Refuge clients as the need arises. Refuge clients are encouraged to ask for clarification if they are unsure about a particular house rule.

11. Refuge clients may not enter any restuarants with bars, even when accompanied by a parent or guardian.

12. Refuge clients must be accompanied by a parent during any trip to a public restroom.

13. No access to malls of any kind.

14. Clients are not allowed to visit any video, music or media stores that are not expressly Christian, even if accompanied by a parent or guardian. Clients may visit LifeWay Christian stores with a parent or guardian.

15. Refuge clients must report off-casmpus emergencies, illnesses, or injuries to their parents/guardians as soon as possible. Parents/guardians are required to inform LIA staff members of such situations by phone as soon as possible.

16. Total silence time at home begins at 9:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday. Refuge clients may use this time for resting, but are encouraged to make a habit of using it for a nightly quiet time with God.

17. Lights-out time will begin each night at 10:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday.

18. Refuge clients are allowed a one-time 15-minute maximum closed bathroom door time for shower/grooming purposes. The only other closed-door alone time allowed is for using the restroom.

19. Refuge clients must keep their bedroom doors open at all times, day or night.

20. Proper bedclothes must be worn during nighttime sleeping hours. Appropriate bedclothes include full pajamas (tops and bottoms) or a pair of non-underwear-type shorts and a T-shirt. Nightgowns are not allowed.

21. Refuge clients are expected to eat dinner with their parents/guardians/other family members (if any) at least four times per week.

22. Refuge clients are expected to cook dinner one time per week.




On-Level Rules


³On-Level² is a protective and therapeutic measure that is sometimes implemented between clients who are having relational difficulties.

1. On-level clients may not speak to each other unless there is a potentially life-threatening emergency.

2. On-level clients are to spend no time alone with each other.

3. On-level clients are not allowed to ride in the same car unless C.O.C. permission has been granted, in which case, one must sit in the front of the car, and one must sit in the back of the car.

4. On-level clients, whenever in the same room, must always have exactly one person between them, whether sitting or standing. Planned activities such as church, Open Meetings, and socials are no exception.

5. On-level status can be initiated by any staff member or house manager.

6. On-level status can be removed only by Executive Staff.

Group Norms




This isn't drug rehabilitation people.  And if nothing is "wrong" with the therapy, why aren't you allowed to talk about it at home with your family?  And checking Beethoven at the door?  Yeah, if you play him backwards it tells you to worship the devil... please :P  Most of those two sections are just control freak stuff.  And being accompanied in a public restrom?!?!?  I thought this was "straight camp".  I'm not gay, but I'm just not seeing this as the equivalent of the local club.  "You know, urinals make me horny...."  :P


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 08:02 AM on August 25, 2006 | IP
Scottd

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I haven't had time to read through all the posts some will add or agree with my opinions and expand on it.

FIrst off, in the United States of America, we are a nation of many religions, races, ethinic mix, and sexual preferences. The debate has been further pushed do to a failing President who has lied to Americans to many times, and is pushing his persoal beliefs down the throats of Americans, and many are following like blind cattle to the slaughter, and it is a real shame. FIrst of all we seperate STATE and CHURCH. THe religiosu beliefs of individuals and Gov. Officials have no bearing on what is right. Religion shoudl play no role what so ever, and if it starts to, as it has, the constitution of the united states is technically VOID. I do not think people realize how serious that is.

 Gay AMericans and couples ARE intitled to the same equality as Heterosexual couples. Plain and simple. Denying them so, is in fact the same as denying woman equal rights.

 On the note of religion, and I have doen deep studies into many religions of the world. Including hystorical data relatign to the BIBILE and it's MANY forms. The BIBLE as it is today has been added onto over time, and is not the original text. THe only original text does not cntain much of what is taught in churches. An exampel is the name of god, and how some religiosn remove it and ALTER the bible. Translaton of original text is highly flawed, the word MAN itself never refered to a man, becuase the orignal word is mankind. Reference ot homosexual text was added as well (yoru opinion may be that it is not). It referenced lying with one who is not your indeered mate.
 
 Love between 2 men has been discussed in bible text contridicting other text. It happens more then once. Read the bible through many times and pay attentionn to it.

 The bible allows SLAVERY! Yes in fact it is aprroved by god. SO which of you on this forum are to be my slave and serve me, you shall recieve fair treatment, but rember what the bible says regarding a slave ot respecting his owner. DO you find it acceptable to support slavery, because if you take the BIBLE word for word as some extreme christians do, then I should be able to enslave or have slaves, correct?

 A wife is to obey her husband and SERVE him. She is less then him by the word of god through the bible. Woman were not given equal rights. THerefore all owman should not have equal rights in the United States of AMerica. Do you find this acceptable? If you are a christian woman, then obey yoru husband regardless or you knwo jsut what he is allowed to do to you. God said this correct?

 I personally find the BIBLE to be offensive, and a destroyyed word of god. I don't believe in a god who would striek down innocent pepel in plaques to prove his power. I don't beleive GOD allows us to enslave other humans. I do not beleive god views woman to be under their husbands. I don't belive god destroys life to prove a point.

 SO back to facts people. This is not about religion, because when religion is allowed to run the nation, the nation shall fail. THre are to many religions in this world, who is to say what is right and wrong. You simply go on faith. You have the opinion your religion is right, while the other person believes through faith that theirs is. I listen to all religions equally, allowign peopel to share thier faith but not to forcefully influence others.

 The issue is Gay Marriage " Meaning the unity of 2 items sharing a common bond". THe word Marriage has been and can be used to describe non-livign things as well as living. REligion opinion states it's ONLY the unity of a man and a woman, when in fact teh orginal word does not mean just that. IF you are an American with a non biased clear mind and follwo the rules of the nation, then Gay Marriage should be approved.

 Let's look at marriage in general. Why is devorce so high? SInce we are talkign about Heterosexual relationships with marriage as legally seen now. Why is it so high? Gay couple should not be married? I hear to many times they don't have serious relationships. I myself am gay and have been in the same relationship, never cheated, for over 12 years. It isn't perfect and yees we may be seperating because of issues. However it has lasted longer then most straight marriages.

 I have a firend who has been with his life partner (soul mate) for 22 years, ad they are sitll in love. THey  DO NOT need people's opinions. THey also have a child they have raised. THeir Daughter is happly married, and she was a virgin till their wedding night. They instilled great values in her. THis gay couple has 2 grandchildren.

 I don't think every gay coupel shoudl get married. THrough the legal side of it, they woudl have to go through a form of devorce, which is costly. I myself will nto marry a man unless I am certain he is who I want to spend my LIFE with. With most heterosexual marriages, their are children that suffer as well. THis is much more damagign to AMerica then gay marriage. Religion isn't changing that.

 So once again, this nation IS NOT a christian nation. IT is not a Jewish nation. It is not an ISlamic nation. WE ARE FREE. We are many. SO why woudl you devide Americans?


 
 

 

 






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You state the bible condems Gay love. But the also also allows slavery and states woman serve their husband and are less then them, but you do not obey that? It is clear the bible has been rewritten by man, and the word of god is lost.
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 8:46 PM on January 16, 2008 | IP
davetent

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Our campaign is focused opn passing an amendment in Arizona to ban gay marriage.  To get involved or express your support please visit our Prop 102 website today.


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Prop102.com
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 7:42 PM on September 25, 2008 | IP
Vagrantdream

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Marriage is not a religious term at all, and while some form of religion has almost always existed, originally marriage was most often a means of assuring alliances by producing offspring which 'bound in blood' two kingdoms, families, clans, etc. Often if offspring were not produced one of the partners (usually the woman) could have been sent back, the alliance nullified (bad omens, etc.), in some cultures the 'offending' family who sent their barren daughter would have to pay in livestock or some other material as a kind of reparation. Religions simply stepped in and sanctioned marriages later on, largely because of the advent of cultures centered around and ruled by a specific religion. However, throughout history women, for instance, have had little to no rights regarding marriage whatsoever. This goes especially for 'biblical' times.

While I can't say that I have anything against christians as a group, I do think that - as a long time student of ancient cultures, especially the near-east cultures - the bible is almost always taken out of it's intended context; a context almost 2000 years old. If you aren't reading the old testament in hebrew, and the new testament in hebrew (or greek for the later books), then you aren't really reading the bible at all, especially if you aren't privy to the historical culture context of the text itself - there is a lot of slang in the new testament, some of it would be shocking for your average conservative christian to recognize for what it is. We know this by comparing other forms of literature from the same cultures (semitic, roman, greek) and identifying similar vocabulary usage in the form of simile, hyperbole, generally poetic language which even now we use but take for granted as 'colloquial' expression.

With that said, there's no real religion basis for banning gay marriage - or for almost anything else in the modern world. I've noticed in this thread a few people mentioning that the 'new testament' - we prefer to call this the 'Gospels' and the 'old testament' the 'Tanakh' - supercedes the old testament, but in reality the text itself (read at face value of course, to be on the same playing field, as it were, as those proponents here) insists that the only alteration to the covenant is that sacrifice is no longer necessary to appease god. The rest of the covenant - the various laws regarding slavery, the ten commandments, and some aspects of the Kosher requirements for diet, etc. - still stands according to Joshua (sorry, I mean Jesus, I'm still stuck on the original hebrew version of his name, being that he was Hebrew.)

While government and religion are only recently (in the span of human cultural history, mind you) largely involved in marriage at all, western cultures at least have almost always had some provisions for the legal marriage between two men. (sorry, girls, but you've pretty much only had rights at all since about 200 years ago, and everything you enjoy now you really didn't get until the 1900s.)

A fairly recent example here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20464004/

Further back we find same sex unions for many different reasons - like heterosexual marriage throughout the ages, rarely did it have to do with actual romantic love. In the far east, specifically china and japan, it was not uncommon for an older unwed male to be legally bound to a younger male with all of the same rights, responsibilities, and privileges of heterosexual marriage, in order to secure a formal heir, as a way of taking care of an orphan or family friend, and in rare instances as a formal expression of the intention to share ones life with another. This was also common in ancient rome and greece as most of us surely know. In almost all cases, however, remember, it had nothing to do with love at all.

Even during the dark ages when the christian church gained power, marriage still had little to do with love. Marriages were frequently arranged by the local clergy, and carried out by them, for the purpose of procreation and nothing more. Sex was taught to be strictly for procreation, and not an expression of love. Couples were joined together strictly to make children who were to be raised as christians. Most objective cultural and socio-political studies support that this was purely to spread the religion as a long term plan to win the numbers game. Other things took place to win this game as well, including the alteration of the original christian tradition to include so called 'pagan' rituals and practices as a way of absorbing local non-christian populace. This is a common thread in most religious cultural history, and almost every religion did this in order to spread into areas where the culture differed significantly.

We come to the present, in america, and in very different times. Now, marriage is almost entirely a matter of love, at least in the western world, with convenience or necessity being the minority reason now. This was a gradual change that was largely begun in victorian europe, after the advent and popularity of the romance novel, which incidentally featured most frequently the classic 'damsel' married unfairly to an unkind husband, while maintaining a passion for her earstwhile underclassed suitor; or the underclassed damsel winning the heart - and thus the privilege to marry - a man of higher class.

Western society was thus inspired to marry for love. However, again religion reared its head to both step in and condone, while at the same time establishing caveats, as it always has be known to do. Not since or before St. Valentine, has the church in any form been known to sanction marriages not approved by respective families or by the church itself, but as times change, the church has changed, reinterpreting 'gods will' to suit the era in order to survive. Better to sacrifice some principles and maintain a hold over the people than to rigidly stick to those same principles and ultimately lose the congregation - after all a religion is nothing without its congregates. It was at the turn of the 19th century that the church began to commonly marry consenting adults who chose, out of love and fidelity, to marry of their own accord. (and the man still had more of a say than a woman in the matter).

So, for those of you proposing that marriage is a religious matter, you are wrong. There's no arguing it, there is no logical basis for it, there is no exception to this rule - historically, marriage the term itself, in various languages, predates the formal western religions from Judaism on up.

For those that say it has always meant, a holy union between a man and a woman, you are also wrong, with the same associated conditions. It has not always been that way, it has not always been a 'holy' matter, and it has just as often been between men as between a man and a woman (there are few instances of marriages between two women, which are difficult to trace as they took place largely in tribal matriarchal nations with little written history) (they do exist, they're just very rare, and mostly extinct).

The definition of marriage as being between a man and a woman exclusively is therefore a rather recent (in terms of human history as a whole) and primarily religious motion - in other words, religion didn't invent marriage, it altered it to it's own needs, according to its own morality. And the entire world did not agree, only those areas where the church actually influenced politics and in many cases had its own military.

Personally, I admire the bible as a brilliant work of philosophy and metaphysics, but I read the Tanakh in hebrew and the Gospels in Greek and where available in hebrew. They tell a very different story when read in their native languages in context to culture colloquial semantics. Like the time Jesus took part in a roman orgy.

Seriously. Colloquialisms change every 50 years or so drastically. You would barely understand a 'commoner' from more than 200 years ago. You wouldn't be able to communicate with someone from england over 500 years ago. A foreign culture over 2000 years ago? Euphemism and slang are literally on every page of the gospels. The Tanakh, or more specifically the Torah, can't even be read in hebrew, as it was written in code that would have been more familiar to the egyptians, who had a heiroglyphic alphabet like the early semitic people did.

My point is, the Bible isn't proof of anything, even the matters unrelated to this issue. The only people, at least posting here, who appear to be opposed to gay marriage, seem to be christians, and these people don't even know what their own book says. They heard it from a guy, who heard it from a guy, who heard it from a guy... etc., over 1500 years ago.

Marriage is more than saying you want to be together forever. It's a contract saying that as of now, we are family, we have the same rights as a brother to a brother or a sister - and this is what marriage is. It's the making of two people into family, just as it has been since its first conception. A husband and wife are just brother and sister. It may sound sick to you in this modern age, but 2000 years ago and more that's exactly what it meant. We still recognize this in the form of 'in-laws'. You call your partner's siblings 'brother-in-law' and 'sister-in-law'. 'Mother-In-Law' and 'Father-in-law' for their parents. That is where this comes from. It just so happens that this culture recognizes certain rights afforded specifically to family members.

I lost my partner 4 years ago to cancer - it was unrelated to HIV, we were, and I am still, not HIV positive. For the time that he was in the hospital, I was unable to see him. He was in and out for some time, but the last stay he had lasted over two months, and he passed away in the hospital. I did not see him for the last two months in his life. I talked to him on the phone during specific hours, and due to his medications that was not always possible. I was right next door. Because of his condition, I wasn't allowed to visit as he was in intensive care, and only family was allowed visitation.

I sought legal recourse, and had none. When he passed, what assets he had, which we had built together, his family was gracious enough to give to me in accordance with his will - but his will was not enough to ensure that I received what he intended me to have when he left this world.

None of you who oppose gay marriage can possibly imagine that pain. If you could, you would support marriage between any two - or for that matter more than two - people regardless of race, sex, religion, or anything else. Those of you who are opposed are the most heartless, empty beings in this country, because you have no care for your fellow human being, not really. Your love of mankind is conditional. "I wish peace and happiness upon all of mankind, as long as they are not gay (alternatively insert minority here)."

I do believe in a God above, a supreme being who operates throughout and creates all of existence, and all potential for existence. And while I do not believe in a hell - I do not need fear to believe in God - I do believe in judgment and in truth and in forgiveness. I Forgive you for your ignorance, for your hate, and for your fear and pride. For your arrogance. ANd I know that God will forgive you as well. But he will judge you first, and show you the truth, and I do not want to be where you are when that happens. For if you cannot love those who are different from you, then whether you believe you are full of love or not, you cannot love those who are the same as you either. In condemning us this way, you are ultimately condemning your fellow christians, your fellow muslims and jews, your fellow african americans, your fellow Human Beings, all of them.

I am so sorry, that you hurt so badly inside.

peace
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 3:44 PM on November 20, 2008 | IP
Rarebitrachel

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I support gay marriage because the state simply has no business intruding into the bedrooms of consenting adults, I don't care what people do behind closed doors as long as they keep it private and most gays like most straights do that just fine.

The kind of scapegoating the religious right has done against gays is horrible. There is no need for this, it is needlessly divisive and wrong.


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RarebitRachel
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 05:53 AM on December 17, 2008 | IP
StormShade

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This rant is primarily in response to a motion in CA to dissolve existing same-sex marriages.

Fire and Brimstone

One day, if left on course, we will all burn in the fire of our own conflict which is forged by the intolerant brimstone of our own stupid arrogance.

Religion and Marriage

An idea which is adopted and perhaps perverted by any given organization does not suddenly make the idea Of that organization. Marriage is a commitment from one body to another. The “Religious” definition of marriage is no more or less valid than any other. Any form of cooperation is a marriage, which is what the whole purpose is: to create unity, not some arrogant fool’s idea of correctness. There are many animals that engage in matrimonial behaviors… and all the atoms of our bodies do the same.

Retroaction: of Arrogance and Humility

I support the diversity of viewpoints and will honor even those with which I disagree, so long as a fair and honorable measure of consensus is met by the majority. I do however find the notion of disbanding marriages that have already been established to be of the utmost arrogance and self-delusion. Even IF the new proposal to disallow henceforth were somehow “right,” to suggest that we withdraw past decisions is cowardly and foolish. It is an attempt to pretend that we have never erred in the first place, a cover-up. The humble thing to do is move on, realize that we cannot change what has been done, and honor our past decisions. Anything less is personally weak, socially disgraceful, and an attack on our very people.

If we do not embrace a practice of humility soon, we will destroy ourselves in the flame of our own weakness… I’ll see whoever is strong enough to tolerate and forgive on the other side.

I very strongly supported a dear friend in her choice to surrogate for a gay couple who were, in my experience, among the most kindly and graceful people I have ever met… a far cry from all those pitiful holier-than-thou attention-seeking social cancers who just cannot abide someone disagreeing with them. Heaven forgive these their worthlessness, and praise those with the will to love.

Do as you will henceforth, but do not think you can erase the past, for it will only destroy you and your ambitions.

GOD IS LOVE

 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 4:57 PM on December 20, 2008 | IP
TheGreyLady

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What I don't understand is why we vote on whether or not to legalize gay marriage. Really, what does it have to do with anyone besides gays? I know some people think it's going to badly influence children or whatever bullshit, but that just goes back to religious beliefs that homosexuality is wrong and should therefore be disregarded as a valid argument. Give it up, people. You don't get to decide who gets what rights. That's up to the Constitution, and as far as I know, it doesn't say anything about marriage--just that everyone is treated equally under the law.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 11:47 PM on March 21, 2009 | IP
MarriageEquality3647

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We are creating a website for a class based around the topic of gay marriage. We are hoping to influence people that gay marriage should be legalized around the world, and we are also hoping to act as a clearinghouse for information.  We started this project because one of us is gay, and although the other is not, he is getting married soon, and cannot imagine anyone else not being able to share in the joy he is.    We are asking that people visit our website, stumble around and see what they think, invite friends, and leave comments.  Although right now the website is small, it will grow, but only with the help of the global community.



www.webstarts.com/marriageforall is the name of our site. We would like people to stop by and visit us. Comments are certainly welcome, and you will find a suggestions page on the site.my website for gay marriage

(Edited by MarriageEquality3647 5/8/2009 at 9:41 PM).


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My opinion matters to me, and I know some people will agree.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 9:30 PM on May 8, 2009 | IP
phifer

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Quote from maria at 06:32 AM on June 13, 2002 :
Mariage is for people who believe in God.  If you don't believe in god, why get married.  If you do, then you know that having sexual acts with the same sex is a sin and marriage to the same sex is not prohibited in the bible.  There are other ways of being committed to someone besides marraige.



Marriage with the state provides tax benefits,  disability benefits, veterans', military benefits (such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.), Social Security, Medicare,  public assistance benefits, not to mention estate benefits. Marriage is also culturally and socially significant.  There was marriage long before the Judaeo-Christian God and marriage is present all throughout history in vastly different cultures and civilizations.

 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 06:44 AM on June 7, 2009 | IP
phifer

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It's God's solution to overpopulation
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 06:48 AM on June 7, 2009 | IP
LegalizeIt

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Loud and proud baby. That's how we should roll. Legalize it right now! BTW Check out this funny design my bff shared with me:
http://www.zazzle.com/heterophobic_tshirt-235030916342423119

I'm definitely a heterophobe

Legalize it


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http://www.zazzle.com/heterophobic_tshirt-235030916342423119
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 3:27 PM on April 21, 2010 | IP
AxisMundi

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Quote from maria at 05:32 AM on June 13, 2002 :
Mariage is for people who believe in God.  If you don't believe in god, why get married.  If you do, then you know that having sexual acts with the same sex is a sin and marriage to the same sex is not prohibited in the bible.  There are other ways of being committed to someone besides marraige.



Marriage is not a religious institution. Indeed, Christian clergy and/or church requirements did not even come into the picture until the late 1500's, when the Pope made it mandatory for Catholics, and Catholics only.

Marriage, in this country, is a legal institution providing over a thousand plus rights and privileges that SOME citizens prefer to enact utilizing a religious wedding ceremony conducted by a legally recognized marriage officiant, in this case a clergyman.
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 08:03 AM on January 13, 2011 | IP
jtlang21

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Yes, because there is no legal argument against it.


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J langdon
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 8:55 PM on March 23, 2011 | IP
marcfreden

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The prediction was anarchy…so said former NY Giants Superbowl star David Tyree. He was talking about the results of the hotly contested gay marriage bill which just passed in New York, granting the right to gays the nation over to…God forbid…tie the knot. Just what could he mean by anarchy? Could he mean the national rush of drag queens to Kleinfeld Bridal of television reality fame—to ‘say yes to the dress’? Did he mean that traditional brides would have to plan that much further in advance as all the good ballrooms of Manhattan will be scooped by the double income no kids, DINKs, flush with cash and desire to out do the last do? Or is it something simpler, like public displays of affection springing up everywhere—hand holding, kisses goodbye? I dare ask, has Tyree ever walked through Chelsea? If it means anarchy…bring it on. The last time I understood true anarchy was during the LA Riots where people of Tyree’s own ethnicity took to the streets to burn what they could to…I guess…make a point and scare a nation. Fear not Tyree, gays are scared of fire—too much product in our hair makes us more combustible than the average straight guy. There will be no burnings in the streets.

We invite you to register and start publishing your opinions at Marc's Forum http://www.really-marcfreden.com/forum/


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Marc Freden Memoir & Observations
Really!?!
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 06:25 AM on June 28, 2011 | IP
martintan

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Here is what I heard on Brazil news. A recent ruling in Brazil is once again bringing the political theater of concept of matrimony to the forefront - and conservatives in the South American country are up in arms. BBC News reports that a notary in Sao Paulo has recognized a civil union between three individuals - two ladies and one male. According to Public Notary Claudia do Nascimento Domingues, the trio has lived together long enough to warrant family rights, and Brazilian law has nothing that forbids such an agreement.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 05:38 AM on June 14, 2013 | IP
    
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