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       Should OPEN gays be allowed into the military?

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AlexanderTheGreat

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I don't mean "don't ask don't tell", which is in my opinion an ok step in right direction but is really a sham. Gays should be allowed to be openly gay in the military without discrimination or threat of discharge. I think a lot of straight people think gays just see the military as a dating service. that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. gays aren't joining the service to "check out" soldiers in the showers. Sheesh! gay people don't stalk straight people. It's a waste of time. We like other gay people. Everyone who loves their country should be allowed the option to defend it. I agree the military should not be testing ground for social experiments, but I don't think this constitutes a social experiment. How long should it take for any normal human being to get over this? Hmm, maybe a long time. Maybe people who have a problem with gays should be kept out of the military, then operational effectiveness would not be diminished (of course, maybe we would just have an all-gay military. oh man, those pansies couldn't hold a rifle with those limp wrists...)


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 03:18 AM on October 19, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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I think the fact the military is both sexiest and prejudice against sexual orientation in a society where the same government that controls this military also has laws commanding people to not be sexist or prejudice against sexual orientation is just plain stupid.
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 4:28 PM on October 19, 2002 | IP
squirt1983

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Just like the issue with women in the military/combat.  Its their country too, let them fight for it, enough said.


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Happiness is wetting your pants--the whole world can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
-Author Unknown
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 01:47 AM on October 22, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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I think it was Barry Goldwater (not one to be renowned for his flagrant liberalism ) who said "It doesn't matter if they are straight. All that matters is if they can shoot straight."


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:34 PM on October 22, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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I think it is the same kind of thing as with boyscouts, I am not really that knowledgeable on this issue, but I wouldnt let my daughter go camping in the woods if the only adult with them was a man, even if it was a man I really trusted, now, why would I let my son (hypothetical situation of course, I am only 16) go camping with a homosexual man?  It is not that I dont trust the homosexual, or think he is going to rape my kid, but it is just not the kind of thing you risk, like letting your daughter go camping with a man.  So getting back to the point, I think it is the same kind of situation in the military, it is not that they think gay guys will be hitting on them in the shower or something but it just isnt comfortable, like throwing a guy in to shower with a bunch of girls, even if he says he isnt going to do anything.

(Edited by Sakata 10/24/2002 at 10:21 PM).


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:20 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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Boyscouts is a private owned group, while the US Military is a governement funded representation of all our countrys' citizens!
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 10:32 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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I understand that fact, but that has nothing to do with the arguement I put out, I totaly believe gays should be able to serve their country, but it is just an awkward situation you know?


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 10:44 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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I don't think a perfect comfort level for everyone else is a prerequisite for providing equal rights to others. And I REALLY REALLY don't think the reason you gave is the reason most people are against gays in the boy scouts.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 04:13 AM on October 25, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Well, its the reason I think their shouldnt be gay scout leaders anyway.


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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 11:51 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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if you are worried about your children being in the care of someone who might prey on them sexually (which I assume is what you mean when you make a reference to a strange man taking your daughter camping), then your boys would statistically be safer with a gay man. The vast majority of sexual assaults are by straight men, and the majority of assaults of young boys are by men in straight relationships with their mother or sister. Gay adults do not stalk little boys. There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:49 PM on October 26, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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So basically a gay man/woman should not be able to be a scout leader, something they could like, because a parent is afraid that the person is gay?  Why dont we all ban christians from doing anything?  After all, they could start another inquisition.  I am SOOO totally gonna ban my kid from doing anything even related in the least bit to christianity, because then he could be attack by inquisition number two!  Oh dear!


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 5:41 PM on November 1, 2002 | IP
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Ok, this is underpressure247, but I forgot my password.  Gay people are people too!  Why do we even need this debate?  Its plain and simple, gay/lesbian people are people, they need the same rights.[random]
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 09:03 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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exactly.  And you never registedred, veroncia.  lol/.\      
Gay and lesbians have just as much right to be in the military as a straight person, whether they are open or not.  Is it not the other soldiers choice to experiment with open gay soldiers?  What would we prevent by dissallowing gays in military?  NOTHINNG.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:39 PM on November 8, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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I fully am for gays in the military but the problem that you run into is that in a highly testosorone (sp?) environment like the military some men might be extremely uncomfortable living in the same barricks.  And it hard to make the judement call, do you leave gays out to please the rest or put gays in and make some people very uncomfortable.  If they want to serve the country I say let them, but they will definitly be looked down upon and that sucks, but thats the way it will be.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 02:33 AM on November 14, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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I think it should never be brought up.  If your gay fine, if your straight fine. it shouldnt matter.  no one person should get special treatment based on their sexual preference.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 08:44 AM on November 14, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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[random] [random] [random] [random] [random] [random] [random] [random]
/.\  ,,     <
\./  '''     <

Anyhow, gays are just people trying to live their lives; they, like most 'normal' people, just wanna live their lives.  And our government is not allowing this?  How can we, as americans, justify this when we have sepereation of church and state and still see 'under god' in the plesdge and 'in god we trust' on coins?  The only reason for this damned law of anti-gays is because of biased christians who have to have god always be right.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 3:32 PM on November 17, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i dont see whats so wrong with saying that God is right. and how could you possibly call yourself open-minded when you do not believe in freedom of religion? you said that you will not allow your son to participate in Christian activities.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 01:16 AM on November 18, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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who said that? i said that?


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 09:00 AM on November 18, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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i think he was talking to exxoss.


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 09:22 AM on November 18, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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First, i said that jokingly, as in sarcasm.  I would not care if my son did christian things, but i was pointing out the fact that if we do not allow one thing because of past occurences, why not not allow another?
Second, seperation of church and state provides good reason to believe god is wrong, as long as im not christian.
third, i am open midnded, and to say that gays shouldnt be allowed in the military is only because of bias christian gguys.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 8:38 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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excuse me, but I am a Christian and I believe gays should be allowed in the military. no need to judge me, Mr. Exxoss


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:06 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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you'll find alot of generalizations about Christians fallingup. you don't have to accept them, but you have to get used to them.  


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 9:38 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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unfortunatly, you're right


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:42 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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You damn facists.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 02:21 AM on November 25, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i see that our friend beavis has now resorted to name calling


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:40 PM on November 25, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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It's more sarcasm/satire, and I laughed.  


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 7:21 PM on November 25, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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who's joking? i feel like the institution of Christianity is pretty fascist by nature. let's see, spread our influence, make sure every member believes the same thing, make sure everyone knows they are subordinate to a greater power they can't possibly comprehend, communal activities, rank and file, symbols, rites, uniforms, superiority complex. What is it missing? oh, maybe a really cool looking march.
ok, i am not saying you guys are all fascist. but the institution is. and it is the institution that needs to be destroyed (and next your belief, when you're not paying attention -- heehee).
can i just give an example of the stupidity of the Catholic Church? after the whole child molestation thing with priests, the Vatican is going to prohibit gays from the clergy. what's the connection??? and catholics are screaming bloody murder cause GLAAD or something mentioned the priest who heroically died at the World Trade Center was gay. they (the bad guys, the religious people) said gays were trying to exploit his death as a means of pushing their agenda. hmmm, I wonder which side's actions  the dead priest would disapprove of more?
and if the Protestants feel left out, how 'bout Falwell? what a catch! the guy actually blamed gays and secularists for 9/11!! yeah, cause you know those hijackers were really a bunch of atheist homos on a rampage. and what does it mean for Falwell to apologize??? it's not like he changed his mind about it. he is still a bigot. he's just too dumb of a bigot to keep his mouth shut. those are my favorite kind.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 12:10 PM on November 27, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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ranks and files? uniforms? i never read anything like that in the bible. since when do i hafta wear a uniform. i can go to church with a tshirt and jeans on.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:37 PM on November 27, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 9:06 PM on November 24, 2002 :
excuse me, but I am a Christian and I believe gays should be allowed in the military. no need to judge me, Mr. Exxoss



What im saying is that the ONLY place that anti-homos came from was religion--most from monotheistic, and even more from christianity--generalization, yes, i suppose, but it doesnt change the fact that only christiians in the gov't dissaprove of gays.   The few that arent christian are fine with gays -- but not christians, because its a 'sin'.  I was saying that christians made anti gay laws.




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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 8:48 PM on November 27, 2002 | IP
btimsah

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Look, the problem is the HOMO and the HOMOPHOBE cannot seem too be united in anything.

For example..  

The gay person becomes athiest, the homophobe becomes a bible thumping litteralist who uses it too condemn gays and too give them the right too hate gays. (as they litterally interpret scipture)

So gays reject the Bible and God
Homophobes reject gays (Gods Children)

EVERYONE needs too read the post at the top of the board on the:

FOUNDATION OF HOMOPHOBIA.

IF your atheist, or christian.. you should read this.  Because athiest are just as mislead on bible passages because of what they heard, that turned them away and as a full-fledged Bible thumper.  

I hope you all consider that maybe, just perhaps the Bible and all the writers in it, NEVER CONDEMNED ANYONE WHO IS HOMOSEXUAL.  

As for the boyscouts.. Let the gay scout leaders lead the girl-scouts.  Would this make the phobes feel better? lol

-Robert


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"Condemn and you will be condemned".

"Judge and you will be judged."
 


Posts: 18 | Posted: 12:54 PM on December 15, 2002 | IP
btimsah

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You know..  I seem too always end these threads.  Why is that? lol

-Robert


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"Condemn and you will be condemned".

"Judge and you will be judged."
 


Posts: 18 | Posted: 02:51 AM on December 18, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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From a religious standpoint all i can say is that to not love everyone, and to be bigoted or hate people for there sexuality is an insult to the creator of these people. For an example i will say this, if someone gave you a cookie that they baked and you said "this cookie sucks" you are not only insulting the cookie but also the person who baked it. To Hate anyone bc of there race or sexual orientation is basically looking god in the eyes and saying "hey buddy you screwed up". That is basically telling God that he isnt perfect and his creations are flawed. I honestly think Homosexualality is gross, but i would never be little someone bc of the choices they make (as long as they arent violent choices,,,,such as terrorism) all sin is weighed equally, i know it is a sin to smoke and i believe it is a sin to be Gay (note the word "believe" i havnt done research nor do i care to bc i am not Gay and have no desire to be), yet i smoke daily. Doesnt this make me just as much a sinner as a gay, everyone here sins and is just as guilty as they believe the gays are.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:21 AM on December 19, 2002 | IP
btimsah

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I am gay.

I find straight sex and relationships gross.

Is it a sin FOR ME?

-Robert



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"Condemn and you will be condemned".

"Judge and you will be judged."
 


Posts: 18 | Posted: 4:10 PM on December 20, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

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Anyone who can "shoot straight"  should be allowed the fight for their country.  The fact of life is the military and society is homophobic.  Gays in the military hurt morale and military readiness.  Unfortunately your average Marine grunt in a ditch is not going to enlightned and open as most people here in this discussion.  I don't want an enlightned military.  I want a military that effectively delivers violence upon an enemy.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:58 PM on December 20, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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kelvin

you make a very logical point. i applaud u for it. the military's efficacy is too important to be risked by social experimentation. fortunately, this experiment has already been done. the same was said about integrating blacks into the armed services. history shows that it doesn't take nearly as you might expect for people to get over their stupidities.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:25 AM on December 21, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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kelvin

you make a very logical point. i applaud u for it. the military's efficacy is too important to be risked by social experimentation. fortunately, this experiment has already been done. the same was said about integrating blacks into the armed services. history shows that it doesn't take nearly as you might expect for people to get over their stupidities.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:28 AM on December 21, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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kelvin

you make a very logical point. i applaud u for it. the military's efficacy is too important to be risked by social experimentation. fortunately, this experiment has already been done. the same was said about integrating blacks into the armed services. history shows that it doesn't take nearly as you might expect for people to get over their stupidities.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:31 AM on December 21, 2002 | IP
btimsah

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In 10-20 years WE will be looked back on in wonder and shame.  Politicians will be scourned for being against gay and lesbians back in the old days.  As Senator Lott used too be a Racist, Senators in the future will, for example be "Former Gay-Basher AND Segregationist", Trent Lott  Ect..  Just interesting too think about it in terms of how far we have come, and how far this gay-issue will GO.  It's Ironic too think about Jerry Fallwell, Trent Lott, and probably many more OLD MEN in either politics, or famous.  Who always seem too want too seperate and bash those who are not them.  (White and straight)

Use their ignorance, as a lesson.

-Robert


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"Condemn and you will be condemned".

"Judge and you will be judged."
 


Posts: 18 | Posted: 11:38 PM on December 22, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from AlexanderTheGreat at 07:31 AM on December 21, 2002 :
this experiment has already been done. the same was said about integrating blacks into the armed services. history shows that it doesn't take nearly as you might expect for people to get over their stupidities.


I hope your right.  I would like to ask you how stupid can an 18 year old recruit get when he knows he is in the shower with another gay soldier?

When Ike integrated the armed forces it was not as simple as commanding it.  When the Commander in Chief orders it, you must obey.  There will still be people dragging and resisting.  This social experiment will not be as easy as racial integration.



 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:28 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Gays should NOT be allowed in the military, no one should. The military should not exist. Of course I am speaking ideally, and not realistically, but what the hell.

What the hell is this shit about being uncomfortable around homosexauls? I lived in the same room with a homosexual for four month and never worried if he wanted to fuck me or had sexual thoughts of me. I did woner a little bit, but did not care. Irrational fear! Oh and if you are worried about  about another man wanting to fuck you in the ass, you are thinking about it, and at that, you might want to think your sexuality over a little bit.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:43 PM on January 11, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from Guest at 4:43 PM on January 11, 2003 :

What the hell is this shit about being uncomfortable around homosexauls?



Forget about what I think.  It doesn't matter.  Try to convice the thousands of new male recruits that they have an irrational fear of homosexuals.  How would you do it?  Would you be successful?

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:32 PM on January 18, 2003 | IP
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[color=maroon]
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:22 AM on February 25, 2003 | IP
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SECURITY ALERT: null
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:24 AM on February 25, 2003 | IP
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I beleive it is easy for you to sit here and debate this issue, but the people who we should be asking how they would feel about gays serving freely are the active duty men and women who risk their lives to fight for One Nation Under GOD. Those are the ones that have to live and work with that decesion every day, not opinionated men and women who are to scared or chicken shit to fight for a counrty that they keep bitchin about every chance they get. It dosen't matter what you think or beleive, it's about our military. And who and the hell compared the segration of blacks to the segeration to homosexuals? In cause you haven't notice, race is a non changeable behavior, while sexuality is a changeable behavior. And if any homosexual wants to argue that he or she was "born that way" I want to know where your physical eveidence is.



[b]SECURITY ALERT: null
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:35 AM on February 25, 2003 | IP
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being homosexual is not a behavior idiot. it is an orientation, like heterosexual is.  know the difference?

what this men are scared of,  is that the military turns into a prison-like environment.  all men doing each other....
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:34 AM on March 1, 2003 | IP
Muffility-12

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The arguments against gays in the military are so bad they're FUNNY. Gays will sexually abuse people? So do straight men in the military. Something like 1/3 of women in the army have been sexually abused. Gays will spread AIDS? so do a lot of straight people. And a lot of gay people don't have aids. Besides, gay women are LESS likely to get aids than heteros. They'll lower morale? I'm sure the morale w/ some soldiers were lowered when blacks were let in the military. But, for the most part, the military got over it.

Worried about women getting pregnant in the military? encourage lesbians to join =)
 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 3:16 PM on October 27, 2003 | IP
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No i dont think gays should join the military, we are far too pretty for that.  Let the ignorant straight people go get themselves killed in wars.  It will boost our homosexual demographic. ^_^
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:27 PM on November 13, 2003 | IP
    
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