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     America a christian nation?

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The debate presented by this site is highly lacking. The fact that Lincoln has said that he is not a christian, Jefferson obviously wasn't, and Paine, Franklin, Washington, Ethan Allen, etc. also were not has been curiously omitted. When looking at this topic it is surely of great importance to notice the founding fathers were almost all Diests, not christians.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:07 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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Ahh, I see. You treat that as a different debate. The problem is how can you answer anything if everything in generally accepted history is up for debate? It is quite apparent that the founding fathers were not christians and only spoke of god when in public setting (they were politicians, afterall) but if that is still up for debate to your site I guess you don't want to add it as an argument for a different issue.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:11 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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why dont you post that under religion in the thread on "christian nation"


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:17 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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America is a free nation that just happens to have Christianity as its majority religion. last time i checked, there is no state religion


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 04:07 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
kc2gwx

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George Washington was a Christian. I cut-n-paste an argument I used in another forum, here it is:

"Almighty God, we make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy Holy protection: that Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government and entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another and for their fellow citizens of the United States at large. And finally, that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, without a humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation. Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
**George Washington**"

That was good old George. Read the closing sentence.

""It is rightly impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible."
--George Washington"

George. And he mentions the Bible.

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ."

George again.

I'm just using George as an example. 97% of our founding fathers were Christians. Unfortunetly, many books have been put out using quotes out of context, and have caused many to believe as you do."



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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 11:48 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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do you know geroge washingtons history...
    george washington started the french and indian war with the british and the french, by murdering a french diplomat. The british fought and won the war and then imposed taxes on the american people to pay for the war that we started. George washington then incited rebellion against england.
    Another thing about george washington (who i believe to be evil) he chose the eagle and the same emblem of the eagle that is on our coinage and our presidents podium as our national symbol. Do you recognize this symbol? it is the same one exactly, used by pagans who worshipped Baal, Nimrod, and Mythros. Also the eagle on the top of a ball that adorns most eveery flag pole is exactly what worshippers of Mythros used and called them Mythros poles. The statue of liberty is a statue of Ishatar, Ishatar is a greek pagan goddess. You know the pyramid on the back of money, this is the symbol of Nimrod.
      Thomas Jefferson and John Adams where both free masons. Free mason is a secret society or a cult if you will. They designed and endoresed the pyramid design on the back of the one dollar bill and put it up in the study room of the capital. Benjamin franklin was a member of a different secret society called the Rosicrucians. Look at the pyramid and you will see the words "annuit coeptis" above it and below it"Novus ordo seclorum" this is latin for "announcing the birth of a new world order. The illuminati (or free masons) want to bring about the new world order which is talked about in the bible.
     These statements made by these founding fathers where nothing more than politics at there finest. As sad as i think it is our government was founded by corruption, politicians, and we where led by an evil man who as i stated earlier murdered a french ambassador. These people knew that the only way to appeal to the people was through religion, so they made statements and propaganda to gather support fom the christian people. We as a nation at that time where a Christian nation, but the founders where far from christian. The people where christian and if they instead of the founding fathers had drafted the constittion or the declaration of independence then yes we would have been a christian nation totally. As far as our founding fathers, they only did what it took to appeal to the masses.
     Qoutes from there speeches will lead you to believe that they where christian but if you quote from their diaries then the opposite is true.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 09:58 AM on November 24, 2002 | IP
kc2gwx

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"Another thing about george washington (who i believe to be evil) he chose the eagle and the same emblem of the eagle that is on our coinage and our presidents podium as our national symbol. Do you recognize this symbol? it is the same one exactly, used by pagans who worshipped Baal, Nimrod, and Mythros. Also the eagle on the top of a ball that adorns most eveery flag pole is exactly what worshippers of Mythros used and called them Mythros poles. The statue of liberty is a statue of Ishatar, Ishatar is a greek pagan goddess. You know the pyramid on the back of money, this is the symbol of Nimrod."

Saying that since George chose an eagle he is evil is streching it a bit, don't you think? I happen to like eagles, in fact, who doesn't? They are a symbol of strength and power. Oh, and the statue of liberty was a gift to us from the French, looong after George died.

"George washington then incited rebellion against england."

Oh, so it was George who started the Revolutionary War? What an evil man he was...wait, why was that a bad thing again?

"Thomas Jefferson and John Adams where both free masons. Free mason is a secret society or a cult if you will. They designed and endoresed the pyramid design on the back of the one dollar bill and put it up in the study room of the capital. Benjamin franklin was a member of a different secret society called the Rosicrucians. Look at the pyramid and you will see the words "annuit coeptis" above it and below it"Novus ordo seclorum" this is latin for "announcing the birth of a new world order. The illuminati (or free masons) want to bring about the new world order which is talked about in the bible."

Once again, why is this bad? They put pyramids on the back of money...they must have been possesed!!! I don't understand why this makes them evil and corrupt.

Madbilly, I agree with most everything you posted in this forum so far. You seem like a nice guy. But I'm gonna have to argue with you on this point. After all, this is youdebate.com...


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 12:14 AM on November 25, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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the eagle itself is not evil, but the exact one used by the holy roman empire, pagan cults, and several babylonian gods is used by the government, did you know that americas national symbol was going to be a turkey (this was proposed by Ben Franklin)..the pyramid was the symbol exactly as that used to represent Nimrod another pagan god. The thing about the rebellion was as americans quoted "no taxation without representation". The tax imposed was only imposed to pay back the cost of the war that  Old george started, so this tax was fair and the political leaders of america lied and covered it up as the british being wrong as to tax them. So let me ask you a question ...if a friend gave you (who is christian) a pentagram necklace(you know the five point star in a circle) would you wear it. Now for us to have a statue of a foreign god in our harbor just bc it was a gift is like you (a christian) wearing a pentagram just bc it was a gift from a friend. Now doesnt the bible state that we are to have no other gods before god...this is a statue of a god that we have in new yorks harbor. And a pagan one at that, now if we where truly a christian nation (i honestly wish we where) we would not have that abomination in our harbor.
      If the government was formed by the people of the time (1770's) then yes we would have been a christian nation, but we where founded by politicians who like any good politician only pretends to be what the people want them to be.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:35 AM on November 25, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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You are deluded by your own desire to live in a christian nation. Washington was probably not a christian. What people say in personal situations is much more revealing than what people say in speeches and other publicity events. Yes, George was a politicain, and even he *gasp* has bent the truth in order to rally masses.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 01:55 AM on November 25, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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Quote from madbilly at 12:35 AM on November 25, 2002 :
did you know that americas national symbol was going to be a turkey (this was proposed by Ben Franklin



ha.  that would've been kind of neat.  pretty funny don't you think?



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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 02:29 AM on November 25, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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beavis where you talking to me...bc i said that he was not a christian and he only said what the peole wanted to hear bc he was a politician...or where you talking to KC....yes cool hand a turkey would have been kinda funny...but it s just as noble as any other animal i guess.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:43 AM on November 25, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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I was talking to kc. You and I have the same point about how politicians are less than honest some times.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:45 PM on November 25, 2002 | IP
kc2gwx

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"I was talking to kc. You and I have the same point about how politicians are less than honest some times."

Of course some politicians are dishonest. You don't have to look to hard for that, after all Bill Clinton lied to the American public just a few years ago.

The debate was about the integrity of George Washington. Madbilly said that since he picked the eagle, he was evil. He also said that pyramids on the back of money showed our founders were corrupt. He also showed that since we accepted the statue of liberty (which is a demonic figure), we were evil. Of course, we accepted the statue from the French in 1886, but that's not important.

I went off on a tangent there...sorry. What was the point? I forgot.


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 10:27 PM on November 25, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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no i didnt say that just bc we chose the eagle we are evil, the fact that we chose the exact same eagle symbol as the pagans used is what is Unchristian. The pyramid, is not just a pyramid, if you noticed the eye coming off the top and read the writing you would see what im talking about, that SAME EXACT symbol was used by pagans, and i will send you a pentagram necklace in the mail and i want you to wear it bc it is a gift, even if it is satanic and goes against your religion you still have to wear it just bc it was a gift.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:26 AM on November 26, 2002 | IP
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I think that just because Presidents were not Christians doesn't mean we are not a Christian nation. The leaders may not be Christians. I am a Christian. My family is Christian. I know about 10 Christian schools off the top of my head. We have devistation in this country (9/11) and gues who most of the nation turns to, God. Everyone says where was God on 9/11, I say God was right there. It could have been a lot worse. The 1st building could have fallen down right away when the plane hit but it didn't it got alot of people out that would have died. YES people did die BUT alot more could hve died. Also people say if we are supposed to be a Christian nation then how come God let this happen to us, I say SPIRITUAL REVIVAL. We were really wicked before 9/11 carefree and doing wrong then 9/11. So yes I do think we are a Christian nation, Godly maybe not but Christian Yep.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:15 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
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Those who see no danger in uniting church and state after the 9-11 attacks, have to be blind, stupid, or part of the problem.  The terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon show that fanatac religious fundamentalism is a threat to the freedom, peace and safety of all mankind.  We must be on guard so as not to fall prey to those who would fan the flames of hatred in the name of religion.

The above sounds close to the Jerry Falwell statement, when he said the attacks occurred because of god abandoning the U.S. because of our sinful ways (homosexuals, abortion and liberals).  He did later apologize for those remarks.  To me, any opinions from Jerry Falwell should be tossed in the garbage can where they belong.  He is a vile, despicable, evil man.  And will most certainly rot in hell.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 04:22 AM on December 6, 2002 | IP
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The Deist argument fits best.

America is a nation "under God" - details thereafter are trivial I think...

www.richardland.com/undergod.htm
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:48 PM on January 27, 2003 | IP
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Well - aren't we a free nation? I mean, we can't claim to be a Christian Nation - since we allow those of all religions here. There are ppl in the US who are Pagan, Wicca, etc. and just because we have a few symbols of them we're evil? NOI mean - we have a blend of religions so it doesn't matter. What may be evil to you may be an important figure in someone else's life (I'm a Christian, but you have to give leaniency for those who aren't -- you can't always change them to what you believe to be the right path, for they follow the path THEY want *the whole: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, sorta deal* so it doesn't really matter.... I mean, we've got tons of diff. religions here, so we can't call ourselves a Christian nation -- tho I don't find why it's important if our presidents were Christian or not, it's basically what they do to our country that matters.... It doesn't matter what their religious thots were... Because, they wanted everyone to be free (they were sick of the slaughter because of religions -- God also doesn't want slaughter because of religion, so does that make us evil...?)


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Daine~
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 10:06 PM on January 8, 2004 | IP
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I don't think you can have a Christian Nation in any part of the world. Religion is based on faith, in my opinion and if you use it as a state prinicipal you end up having to condemn all other faiths around, in that country, to make sure your personal beliefs and agenda gets passed.  

(Edited by grace1211 7/8/2006 at 9:35 PM).
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 9:33 PM on July 8, 2006 | IP
    
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