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Maynard

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 7:46 PM on December 11, 2002 :
those three things do not have to



you live in a dream world dont you?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 2:01 PM on December 16, 2002 | IP
sourbubblegum

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i disagree with the death penalty completely. An eye for an eye just makes the whole world go blind. You sentence some1 to death by giving them the death penalty you are doing just as bad as what they have done.


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 4:55 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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maynard, what do you mean i live in a dream world? ok, i admit that i'm an idealist. but it is not impossible to end all capital punishment and all abortions!! war is more difficult, i agree. but capital punishment and abortions do not have to occur.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:27 AM on December 31, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 12:27 AM on December 31, 2002 :
maynard, what do you mean i live in a dream world? ok, i admit that i'm an idealist. but it is not impossible to end all capital punishment and all abortions!! war is more difficult, i agree. but capital punishment and abortions do not have to occur.



i somewhat agree with abortion, that is a iffy subject.  but why is capitol punishment bad?  do you feel that jeffery dalmer, ted bundy or charles manson deserves to live?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 4:08 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
sourbubblegum

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Let god deal with the things they do. Two wrongs dont make a right.


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 4:20 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from sourbubblegum at 4:20 PM on December 31, 2002 :
Let god deal with the things they do. Two wrongs dont make a right.



so you support letting minor criminals go becuase we are running out of room due to the fact there are too many people in prison for life?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 4:29 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
sourbubblegum

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they can make room. it doesnt matter.


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 5:20 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from sourbubblegum at 5:20 PM on December 31, 2002 :
they can make room. it doesnt matter.



where?  are you up for destroying more land to build more jails to hold all these prisoners?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 8:19 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Falling, we don't live in a Utopian society. You cannot just eliminate war, capital punishment, and abortion, although I'd like to see war and abortion go.

The same goes for socialism. Socialism really only works on a smaller scale and if people respect the system.

We don't live in a perfect world and we probably never will. There will always be those who oppose a perfect world or who want to change that perfect world.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 9:36 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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why cant you eliminate capital punishment and abortion? simply pass an amendment banning it. sounds simple to me. most of europe has already banned the death penalty, and our country used to have a ban on abortion.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 7:45 PM on January 1, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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if you eliminate the death penalty, then what do you suggest we do for the future Charles Manson's and Jeffry Dalmer's?  keep them in prison the rest of their lives?  are you willing to pay the tax dollars for that the rest of your life?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 09:16 AM on January 2, 2003 | IP
sourbubblegum

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They can make more room in the prisons and keep them in prison all their life. That way that cannot commit the crime again. it isnt anybodys right to say who lives and who doesnt. If it isnt right to steal something of someone elses if they steal something of yours how is this any different?


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 10:53 AM on January 2, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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maynard, i was responding to your claim that it is impossible to ban the death penalty or abortions, by saying that other countries already have.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:36 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 12:36 PM on January 2, 2003 :
maynard, i was responding to your claim that it is impossible to ban the death penalty or abortions, by saying that other countries already have.


i read back through all my post and cant find where i claimed that it is impossible to ban the death penalty.  please point out where i claimed that?

to fallingupwards and sourbubblegum, what do you think should of been done to ted bundy and jeffry dalmer?  

(Edited by Maynard 1/3/2003 at 3:16 PM).


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 1:32 PM on January 3, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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evidently you did not read good enough. when i said that abortion and the death penalty do not have to be legal you said that i live in a "dream world"

pardon my ignorance, but what did ted bundy and jeffry dalmer do?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 01:27 AM on January 4, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 01:27 AM on January 4, 2003 :
evidently you did not read good enough. when i said that abortion and the death penalty do not have to be legal you said that i live in a "dream world"

pardon my ignorance, but what did ted bundy and jeffry dalmer do?



i said you lived in a dream would in response to your statement that all death sucks and sould be eliminated, not exact quote i know,  i can see the confusion though and apologize for that.

ted bundy murdered many women, need to look it up for specifics and jeffry dalmer is the one that killed people and stored them in the fridge to eat them.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 3:05 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
Pie

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"ted bundy murdered many women, need to look it up for specifics and jeffry dalmer is the one that killed people and stored them in the fridge to eat them." People like this should be interrogated by the CIA and die of an "accidental" brain hemmorage. I know I mispelled that.


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Posts: 202 | Posted: 3:20 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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ok, ted bundy kill 22 people, mostly women, and he mostly had his arm in sling to get women to help him with groceries, then he would abduct them and kill them.

would he have deserved to live?  


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 3:20 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
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And what if these dangerous people escape to wreak more havoc on the nation? dsadevil stated some figures that show that less people die if you execute danergous criminals.

Why not give them what they deserve? If someone viciously murders another human being why don't think deserve to be killed? Everyone is afraid of death, why not make them confront their worst fear for what they did? Why lock them up for their lives with books, TVs, or radios? Why let them live and enjoy their prision surroundings (which would be much better than where'd they'd be if they were dead). Why give them the chance to escape and kill even more people? Unlike abortion, there people are not innocent... they did something.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 3:55 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from Pie at 3:20 PM on January 4, 2003 :
"ted bundy murdered many women, need to look it up for specifics and jeffry dalmer is the one that killed people and stored them in the fridge to eat them." People like this should be interrogated by the CIA and die of an "accidental" brain hemmorage. I know I mispelled that.


i like that idea.



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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 6:24 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
madbilly

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it was also the way ted bundy murdered women. He would drill holes in there head with a cordless drill in an attemptto make them braindead but still be alive. He was trying to create what has been described as "sex zombies". That way he could have a living body that he could have dirty sex with. He was quite derranged. Jeffrey dahmer was a cannable that would kill people in horrible way after they had been tortured and then he would eat them, and he would have company over and feed them human flesh and tell them it was pork.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:59 AM on January 5, 2003 | IP
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Now I'm a Canadian so as you might imagine I am against the death penalty. I have also had the privilage of working in a federal penetentiary were I was responsible for treatment. I therefore interacted with many offenders and became familiar with them and their histories. I have to say that they are no different from anyone else in society. Clearly they have different ideas regarding morality and they are much more likely than not to have been the victims of terrible abuse and violence. This is not to say that I feel that what they may have done was at all acceptable but as human beings they are deserving of our compassion not our comtempt. There is nothing that can be done about the events of the past and I frankly do not see the point in hurting even more people. After a crime we are faced with an awful situation were both parties need a lot of help so that we can salvage as many lives as possible. In the case of murder we clearly need to be more cautious, but it is true that the recidivism rate for murder is very very low. if we are only worried about recidivism we would be tougher on b&e's which have a terrible rate of re-offence. I guess the point is that these people are not monsters and that we are supposed to be the compassionate ones arn't we, we are the level headed ones not them so we should be stepping up. You might say why should I help someone who has done something so reprehensible. I suppose there is no really good reason, I am of the oppinion that we should try to help every human being regardless of their situation. I am not fit to pass judgement on someones life, I'm not sure who is, all i can do is try to make peoples lives better that is all of our jobs really. The world should be a better place for having had us on it and that does not stop even if someone does something that I don't like. Before anyone says anything of course I would be angry if it was one of my relatives who was raped beaten or killed but I would hope that society would act reasonably even when I had lost the ability to do so.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:16 AM on January 5, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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ok ok ok ok, that is absolutly disgusting. those people need to be executed, no doubt (see, i'm not a close-minded person, i am willing to adjust my ideas)

however, i am against most executions. for example, if someones murders a police officer. what that person did was horrible, but he should not be executed. he should spend life in prison. and for the record, i do not think the DC sniper should be executed.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 01:19 AM on January 5, 2003 | IP
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I think execution should be for people who murder more than one person or for people who muder the elderly or children.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 1:26 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
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YOu don't think the snipers should be executed!?! They murdered a lot of people for no reason! Why shouldn't they die for what they did?


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 1:29 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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the death penalty should be reserved for only the sickest and worst of criminals like bundy and dahmer and bin laden. i am not saying that what the sniper did was not horrible.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:54 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
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I'll stick with what I said before.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 10:58 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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i think the snipers should be let off into some secure woods some place with no weapons, and then let our military trained snipers have a go at, and just for fun, let all the victums families have a gun and go after them.  


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 1:08 PM on January 6, 2003 | IP
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That's cruel and unusual punishment...


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 1:35 PM on January 6, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from Broker at 1:35 PM on January 6, 2003 :
That's cruel and unusual punishment...



but fun, and they deserve it.  and what was it when they did that to their victims?

(Edited by Maynard 1/6/2003 at 4:07 PM).


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 4:06 PM on January 6, 2003 | IP
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The constitution bars it, not me.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 7:22 PM on January 6, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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ya know what? i'm beginning to really like broker...he's starting to make a lot of sense


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:45 PM on January 6, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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dont get me wrong, we still disagree on a lot of stuff...but he's beginning to come around


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:46 PM on January 6, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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hey, im just saying what id like to happen, not what will.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 11:54 AM on January 7, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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yeah, i'm sure you would enjoy the government reinstating torture in our court system. that sounds just like you, maynard


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 2:47 PM on January 7, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 2:47 PM on January 7, 2003 :
yeah, i'm sure you would enjoy the government reinstating torture in our court system. that sounds just like you, maynard



no, i dont like torture, but damnit, if you murder people, you deserve to die.  simple, easy, and quick.  


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 5:15 PM on January 9, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from Maynard at 4:08 PM on December 31, 2002 :

 but why is capitol punishment bad?  do you feel that jeffery dalmer, ted bundy or charles manson deserves to live?


Those men certainly deserve the highest form of punishment.  If you really are a good Christian, then you defer that kind of judgement, it doesn't belong to you or the government.

But hey, when did the government ever claim to be a good Christian?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:34 PM on January 12, 2003 | IP
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Leviticus 24:16

    "...anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD
    must be put to death. The entire assembly must
    stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when
    he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death."
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:37 AM on January 16, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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leviticus was the old law. the old law was done with when Christ died on the cross


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 3:52 PM on January 16, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 3:52 PM on January 16, 2003 :
leviticus was the old law. the old law was done with when Christ died on the cross



Wow.  Well put fallingupwards.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:01 AM on January 18, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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no, i dont like torture, but damnit, if you murder people, you deserve to die.  simple, easy, and quick.  


My acid test for executions is you have to be willing to perform the execution yourself.

I have no trouble with the idea of putting a .45 slug between the eyes of a felon in my livingroom.  I think I would have trouble with throwing the switch on an electric chair.  Life in prison is no cake walk too.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:13 AM on January 18, 2003 | IP
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Wow, I'd have a hard time doing that.

I'm surprised no one has used the arguement that if they stay in prison they always have to live with what they did.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 12:07 PM on January 20, 2003 | IP
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Ten reasons to be against the death penalty:

1. It is morally reprehensible to take a life, and it is especially reprehensible for the state to do so.

2. Executing innocent people outweighs any logic behind the death penalty.

Between 1973 and 2001, 89 death-row inmates were found to be innocent and subsequently were exonerated, escaping death by hours in some cases.

3. Race is often a defining factor in death-penalty cases.

The United States favors prosecuting when the victim is white. More than 80 percent of completed capital cases involve a white victim, even though nationally 50 percent of murder victims are white.

Jurors are far more likely to recommend the death penalty for people of color. Between 1995 and 2000, 75 percent of the federal cases in which juries recommended the death penalty involved black or Latino defendants.

4. Whether or not the death penalty is applied depends largely on the quality of legal representation for the accused, and most death-row inmates cannot afford decent representation.

The Texas Defender Service concluded that defendants in that state have more than a one in three chance of being executed without benefit of competent appellate attorneys.

5. The death penalty does not deter crime.

The United States has a murder rate three times higher than that of European countries, all of whom have abolished capital punishment.

6. It is impossible for the death penalty to ever be administered fairly, given our legal system, and it is therefore unquestionably unconstitutional, because defendants often do not receive a fair trial.

Between 1973 and 1995, seven out of ten death-penalty cases were thrown out on appeal due to flaws in the trial.

7. Administering the death penalty is far more expensive than imprisoning the offender for life.

Sending a killer to death row costs an average of $2.3 million, three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for forty years.

Florida has spent more than $51 million a year more on state executions than it would have spent on punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole.

8. Capital punishment is administered cruelly, arbitrarily and unfairly.

Between 1982 and 2001, at least thirty-two executions went brutally awry. On April 22, 1983, it took fourteen minutes for the State of Alabama to electrocute John Evans. The executioner re-attached a burning electrode to Evans's leg twice, ignoring pleas from the defense lawyer, while the room filled with smoke and the smell of burning flesh. Evans's body was left charred and smoldering.  

9. The United States is one of the only First World country that still executes its citizens.

With its use of the death penalty, the United States is in league with Iraq, Yemen, Iran, China and Congo. Our continued use of the death penalty causes constant friction with US allies.

10. The United States executes mentally retarded people and children.

Iran and Nigeria are the only other countries who execute children, according to a 2001 Human Rights Watch Report on Children's Rights. Although a recent Supreme Court decision declared the execution of mentally retarded inmates unconstitutional (Atkins vs. Virginia), death row inmates who would be considered mentally retarded by the American Association on Mental Retardation may be executed, since states have the authority to define what constitutes mental retardation; while the AAMR defines mental retardation as having an IQ of 70 or below, states currently have the right to define mentally retardation differently. Thus, mentally retarded inmates are still at risk.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 06:10 AM on January 21, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from Broker at 12:07 PM on January 20, 2003 :
Wow, I'd have a hard time doing that.




Practice, practice, practice.  Then practice some more.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:27 PM on January 22, 2003 | IP
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Well, think about this quote ppl.
"I believe that it is correct to go to any extreme measures as long as it purges the world of any or all evils"
All those who agree with this quote, I would like to let you know who said it. It was said by Hitler...  Are you sure you wanna share the same views with this man?
Jesus said love your enemies, turn the other cheek, and much more.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:58 PM on February 23, 2003 | IP
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Quote from Guest at 06:10 AM on January 21, 2003 :

5. The death penalty does not deter crime.

The United States has a murder rate three times higher than that of European countries, all of whom have abolished capital punishment.



In addition, Texas, which executes the most people per year, also has the highest murder rate, while the 12 states without capital punishement have the lowest ones



 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:57 PM on April 3, 2003 | IP
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im doing a debate on the death penalty in school and i think it is so wrong..if a person kills someone  sentencing them to death is the exact same thing that they do   so is it right   NO of course not  i really think that all states should get rid of this immoral way of dealing with murders [color=fuchsia]
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:57 PM on April 17, 2003 | IP
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In the cases of death, life without parole or murder in prison the state is responsible for the death of the prisoner.

Capital punishment should be a last resort.  Those inmates who can be reformed should be.  Reformed inmates would only be releasable if the survivors of the victim consent.  Note that if the vicitms family comes up murdered, the prisoner should be executed.

Capital punishment should be reserved for those who cannot be cured or reformed after a period of years, and who pose a lethal danger to other inmates (who the state is bound to protect).  If after a period of years the prisoner is deemed untreatable, that prisoner should be euthanized for his benefit and the benefit of society.

Michael Bindner
Host, Voice of the Religious Left
www.christianleft.net
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:01 PM on May 2, 2003 | IP
chelnard

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In cases of death penalty i would think that it is highly and realistically enforceable due to the fact that death penalty is an authorized killing whereas muder is the illegal one...think abt it dun u wan justice be done for ur kins if they are the ones gettin murdered for no whatsoever reasons. In that first place if the culprit knew that he will b executed why in the hell would he commit such grave crime.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 04:27 AM on May 23, 2003 | IP
TheGarbageman

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Think of the sniper shootings this past year. They had no real motive, or pattern. The killings were completely random, and unfueled. If John Lee Malvo and the other guy were given life sentences, but escaped, I gaurentee you they'll kill more innocent people. Some people do stuff for no reason, and don't stop. They deserve the death penalty.


-------
I shall send you to Heaven, before I send you to Hell.-Sideshow Bob
 


Posts: 9 | Posted: 11:37 AM on June 8, 2003 | IP
    
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