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   Peace in the Middle East
     How should we solve the prob?

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dsadevil

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This is my favorite issue, but I'll stand back for a few posts and let others get their views in before I jump into the fray.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:59 PM on September 2, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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We should not solve this problem.  Let another nation stand up or let these two groups of people settle it themselves.  Why is it whenever something happens in the world everyone looks at the us to fix it.  Why don't we stay out of their business.  We have way to many things on our own homeland that needs to be taken care of before messing with the middle east problem.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:50 AM on September 8, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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y? because we r the most powerful, whether u guys care or not, the american nation IS aa empire, we control almost every country indirectly through our money, although i believe our grewat nation shall collapse within 50 years because people will care more about money than a job getting done, the people turn to us because we have somewhat made them weaker so they have no choice, we have spoiled them
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 2:48 PM on September 8, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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sooner or later we have to put our foot down.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 9:42 PM on September 8, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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well, if we are going to put our foot down somewhere, cant it be on the terrorist's heads?


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:49 PM on September 8, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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You find the terrorists and I will put my foot somewhere, I promise you that.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:12 AM on September 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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???
Where are you and the terrorists planning to put your foot exactly (and more importantly, why did you just associate yourself with terrorists in that last post)


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:57 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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What?


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 5:13 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Quote: "You find the terrorists and I will put my foot somewhere"

Maybe that was just a case of bad grammer, but the inference was that u and the terrorists were a collective agent. Obviously thats not right, but please clarify?


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 5:27 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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From reading all my other posts where in gods name did you get that.  I meant it by you show me a terrorist and I will put a foot somewhere.  


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 7:26 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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And what was bad grammer.  Hook on phonics worked for me.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 7:27 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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ha! you're right I'm wrong. I read it as "you WILL find the terrorists...etc." when you never wrote a will. My fault. Sorry.

But we've got some dandy terrorists for you to stomp on. They're called Hamas, The Islamic Jihad, PFLP, PLO, Palestinean Authority....


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:20 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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...force 17, Tanzim, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the DFLP, and Hezbollah. Note that of those, you can link all but Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Islamic Jihad back to Arafat.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:22 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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You and I agreeing is starting to get scary.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:22 AM on September 10, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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What's happening to me!?!


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 11:47 AM on September 10, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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lol.... if we could actually find the terrorists... with legible and public proof ill be amazed
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 8:40 PM on September 17, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Stop 'smoking out' osama by bombing other countries!  It sux!  innocence are dying!


-------
I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 5:14 PM on September 24, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Why should we stop?  They sure as hell aren't going to stop attacking us.  Where is the other intelligent voice on this board with messed up opinions.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 7:15 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
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You're never going to find all the terrorists and smoke them out. It's just stupid and futile. A much better way would be to  hit it at the source: THe poerty and ignorance in all the Middle Eastern countries (excepting Israel, which is good about all that stuff). The other countries are dictatorships where people grow up beleiving they have to fight against an invisible enemy. If you want to end the terrorism, get into the Arab countries and educate these poor people
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:40 AM on September 26, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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BECAUSE YOUR KILLING INOCENT AFGHANIES!  Sure, osama killed our innocence, but they wanted to.  We just wanna catch osama. Not kill off half the earth to 'smoke him out'.


-------
I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:40 AM on September 26, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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If thats what it takes then thats what it takes.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 11:37 AM on September 26, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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But that that we are doing has been failing for 5 months now (that was not a fake)  and we continue.  Is this fair to those dying???


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 3:13 PM on September 26, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Wars aren't won overnight or in 5 months, especially when fighting these kinds of wars.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 4:05 PM on September 26, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Good point.  But dont you think 5 months is enough for us to learn that bin laden is not going to give up through his people getting killed?  Terrorists dont even care if they die, so why kill more innocence when more bloodshed is unnecisary?


-------
I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:21 PM on September 26, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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So because he is not going to give up, we should?  That makes no sense.  Kill bin laden and anyone that is associated with him.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 9:23 PM on September 26, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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No, we should not give up.  But we shouold stop bombing innocence.  We know his location, but bush does not want to make a bad name for himself, so he is not sending in a swat team.  We are merely bombing innocent places so that he will look like he is doing good by killing could be terrorists.  What the hell is up with that?  Would you like it if someone bombed you so that they could 'smoke out' someone???!


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 08:59 AM on September 27, 2002 | IP
counterplot

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[i][color=red][size=14] Most people are saying that all of this is because of oil. "OIL WARS" haha. Well actually they are right.  All of us all ready know that this is WW I I I.
And we also know that this war started the minute that Bush said that it means war. "-war against terrorism-" he said. Right there, right then is when the war started. Dont get me wrong, im not a pacifist.  I'm just saying what is obvious, what everyone knows, bush is an idiot with a big ass mouth that doesn't shut. And because of that, because of those words, innocent people die.
The war was bound to happen, i mean it ALWAYS does, but now BUSH has brought this burdain to the USA. Please think about it. BUSH SUX

 
BUllSHit


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-it's inevitable
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 5:55 PM on September 28, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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So you think the world trade center was attacked because bush was president?


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 9:18 PM on September 28, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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no,counterpart is one of my friends from school, what he means is that only on this occasion we've declared war....wat bout all those other terrorist actions????i mean wat made this 1 so special?, so really when u look at it from that point of u counterpart is right, Bush used this is a chance to attack afghanastan,which u no is an ally to Iraq....so really he's using afghanastan as a means of attacking iraq and stealing the oil and illimanating sadam housain....every leader has a motive
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 09:32 AM on September 29, 2002 | IP
rae

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Innocent people who die in the so called "war on terrorism" are victims...not just the Americans who died in the 9/11 attacks, but the innocent Arabs who had nothing to do with terrorism who are being bombed on a daily basis.  It's not right to insinuate that an innocent Arab's live is not as valuable as an innocent American's life.  That mind set is the epitamy of American arrogence.    I'm not saying that we shouldnt defend ourselves...but not all Arabs believe in terrorism, or terrorist government...just like not all Americans believe in Bush's negligent foriegn policy.
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 7:03 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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The bottom line is when there is an attack of this magnitude something has to be done, people will die, innocent people will die.  But alot of those civilians you talk about being killed really aren't civilians.  Any civilian holding a gun is no longer a civilian.  I support what bush is doing, and if innocent people die then so be it, it sucks but its life, thats the way it is.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 10:37 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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If what you say is true, that innocent lives are necessary, then what makes us any different from them.  When they hit the world trade centers, they were doing nothing more than adhering to your rules tsmith.  I suppose your one of the ones who agrees with what we did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Our government can dress it up all they will, but the fact remains that the US has killed more civilians, women, babies, and senior citizen than anyone else.  But we consider it "necessary" until it happens to us, then it's a "horrible atrocity".  If your going to say that innocents must die, it has to go both ways.  We are just as evil as they are.  They killed 2500 to make a point, we killed 300,000.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:40 AM on October 14, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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The bombings of japan were done in times of war.  The United States declared war on Japan, they were knocking on our backdoor for a long time and the dropping of the atomic bombs was the way we thought they would surrender and they did.  There are always cassualties of war, I am by no means condoning it but its reality.  Innocent people will die and it does suck.  In a perfect world non of this would happen and we would all get along but unfortuatly this is not a perfect world and sometimes things are done that are wrong but have to be done to support the bigger picture.  And the difference between us is that we didn't open fire, we returned fire.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 02:12 AM on October 14, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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My point is that if Japan had dropped 2 bombs on us and killed a couple of hundred thousand people, under the exact same circumstances we did, you would not see it as "necessary".  What's the diiference?  Either way, the war would have ended, no matter who dropped the bomb.  Same result it just that we would have been on the receiving end for a change.  You opinion would be drastically different.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 09:39 AM on October 14, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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And in terms of us "returning fire" on Japan, you can compare to Japan flicking us in the ear so we respond with a shotgun.  We used a sledgehammer to kill a fly.


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 09:41 AM on October 14, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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when that bomb was dropped this country had been at war on two fronts for years, many men had died, millions and millions of dollars spent and we wanted peace so they gave the order to drop the bomb.  


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 12:13 PM on October 14, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Wow, I never thought of it that way....I guess that does make killing children ok!


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:09 AM on October 15, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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There were two options, keep on fighting the war with more americans dying or end it right there and that meant killing japanese people.  Yeah, it sucks that many innocent people died but we have kept our freedom because of it.  What if japan had attack mainland america with half our population gone fighting a war in germany, would you want the bomb dropped then our would you want to salute and pay homage to the japanese emperor.  It was a war, people die, innocent people die and it is crap but its life.  How do you think wars are fought?  Two countries square off in open fields in antartica where there is not a single civilian around?  Sometimes they are fought in cities with woman and children running around.  And sometimes they get killed.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 12:52 AM on October 15, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Yes but when two armies square off in a city, they aim at each other.  Two armies never square off in a city, acknowledge each other's presence, and proceed to shoot every innocent in sight, completely disregarding the actual enemy.  Japanese civilians were not our enemies, we simply used them to get at our true enemies.

And what's so special about "American" lives, are they really so much more important than "Japanese" lives that we are willing to make the statement that one american life is worth 25 japanese, or is it 50?  Alll I am saying is what we did was wrong.  Wrong to the absolute core, we were the Nazis of that day and age.  Show me the difference.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:05 PM on October 15, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Quote from thistownwilleatu at 1:05 PM on October 15, 2002 :
Yes but when two armies square off in a city, they aim at each other.  Two armies never square off in a city, acknowledge each other's presence, and proceed to shoot every innocent in sight.


Unless that "army" is palestinean. Then they go all out for the civilians.

But the question here is how much value we give to nationalism. Does an American govt. by its nature have the responsibilty to value american lives over those of other countries? I think that is a logical claim to make.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 5:56 PM on October 15, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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The american governments first responsibility is to look out for americans.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 9:28 PM on October 15, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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tsmith weighs in with a shocking, atypical response.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 3:28 PM on October 16, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Is there something wrong with that?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 6:11 PM on October 16, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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I'd also like to point out that on 9-12-01, bush created a 'no flight zone' in Turkey to ensure no terrorists would head to america.  This policy failed, and american people shot down 5 commercial airlines heading for europe on 9-14 and 9-15.  Only 2 military planes were sighted even close to the no flight zone, and the no flight zone was never given to the mid east colonies before the soldiers were shipped, so innocent unaware mid easterners died.  Is this the right thing to do?      This was all over the news after sept 16, so i really dont wanna find a csn old news page.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 7:30 PM on October 16, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Thats news to me, I never heard a thing about that.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 9:26 PM on October 16, 2002 | IP
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Tell the Jews to leave the Middle East.  Let them live in a place where they aren't hated.  Why not New Mexico.  It works out great for everyone.  Palestinians get a modern country (for how long), Isreal gets a home, US gets more smart Jews and people from Taos can get good Bagels  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:47 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
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take note that the arab countries backed adolph hitler during ww2 and that is why israel was made at that time...jewish people have continually occupied israel longer than any other race or ethic group. Muslim invaders have run the israelis out of there homeland many times...why is this okay but for us to run the palestinians out is wrong.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:06 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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omigosh, there are some wacked out respones on this thread. I would like to address a few whopping illogical things people have said. 1. there is an obvious moral distinction between the normal kind of collateral damage that happens to civilians during war and an intentional targeting of civilians which is what terrorists do. if you don't get that, take an ethics of war class and come back. 2. the "war on terrorism" requires two tracks. the first must be, america must reconsider some policies. I think we let the Israelis get away with too much, and we depend on oil from the Middle East too much. If we reach out, I do believe moderates everywhere will make the leap to close the gap in our relationships with muslim nations. second, we must kill every terrorist we can find, because these people will never stop, no matter what our policies are, because for them it is religious and not political. 3. dropping the atom bombs on Japan was an obvious choice in my opinion. yes all lives matter equally, but not to the president of the USA, and for good reason. it's his job to value American lives more. he is running a country, not a soup kitchen. besides, the studies show this: an invasion of japan (which was the only reasonable alternative) would have cost roughly 200-300,000 American lives, and FIVE times that many in Japanese lives. the atom bomb only killed a little over 100,000 japanese. what sane and compassionate person would refrain from this obvious (but horrible) decision. 4. in afghanistan, the USA fought a pristine war by the standards of war. sure, the media printed a front page article about every hospital that was hit, etc., but the US army and air force define their jobs by their constant effort to avoid civilian deaths. precision strike technology is developed with that hope in mind. that's all for now. lemme know what u think


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:23 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Since many are uneducated about the mid east, (i am PART mid eastern, so i know since i been up in dat house broddas)  People do not know many things suchas the no flight zone, but im sure DSa would know about that.  Many people die every day because bush thinks its 'right' politically to kill would be terrorists in the mid east, as well as 'smoke out' bin laden.  Hey tsmith, i think your a terrorists, so im gonna kill you now.  <----bush's mindset


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:32 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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also, you don't define the morality of a war simply by how it is fought (although that is part of it); you also judge the war by it's goals. this is just war theory. An unjust war (a war fought for good reasons, like liberty, human rights, etc.) can be fought justly (example, hmmm, cannot find any, cause people who launch wars for unjust reasons tend not care how they fight them), and a just war can be fought be fought unjustly (the air war against Milosevic, in my opinion, because our aversion to our own casualties led to bombing that killed too many civilians). The war on terrorism is just. The world should not permit terrorism. That is a noble goal. We must watch and make sure the war is fought justly. It probably won't, but I think so far so good (with some things that could have been done better, like keeping a tighter leash on the Northern Alliance). Iraq will probably be our first big slip up, but what can you do, we have a C student for a prez. anyways, my point is al qaeda's effort create a Holy Roman Empire-like community (I think bin Laden's term is umma) for extremist Islam in the Middle East by driving out the US and overthrowing apostate regimes (remember, Bin Laden also hates the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt, etc.) is not a just war. And it is also being fought unjustly. Plowing planes into buildings full of innocents is not an acceptable form of fighting. Well, you may say, their plight is so great and their means so little that this is their only option. NO WAY. Even the most miserable do not have a legitimate excuse for terrorism. You devalue people in history like Gandhi and MLK Jr. when you say that terrorism is just as acceptable as passive resistance. When did Arafat even TRY organized passive resistance? Sure, some elements in Palestinian civil society have tried it in the past, but it was never encouraged or assisted by the leadership. That's part of the problem. These Muslim states have no good leaders, so when a Robin Hood figure like bin laden comes around, even potential moderates leap at the chance to cheer for someone who champions their cause (and seems to make a "dent" in the opposition). That's it for now, I promise.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:43 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
    
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