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   Peace in the Middle East
     Israel vs. the Middle East
       Who's really to blame in the Israeli/Arab conflict

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Chai

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I don't actually believe this, but for arguments sake, I say that the Israeli's are at fault for fighting back. I'll be back in a while
 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 10:38 AM on September 27, 2002 | IP
Chai

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The actual topic is: Who's really at fault in the Isreli/Arab conflict and/or how is this issue going to be fixed?
 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 5:04 PM on September 27, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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I believe it is Mid Easts' fault.  They have vast amounts of land, why get mad over a tiny piece?  Besides, it is the holy place of judaism.  The holy muslim place (or so i have heard) is Mecca, in africa!


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
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-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 5:04 PM on September 27, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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i agree with u, except that mecca is in saudi arabia, which is in Asia. Get an atlas.

But yeah, arabs, who currently have 660x the land that israel, want to take over part of country that is currently the size of vancouver. sharp.

Oh and the odds of someone named "Chai" taking the arab side seems slim to me, eh?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 3:23 PM on September 30, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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She's probably jewish, but taking a different side for debates sake.  Anyway, sorry for the mecca in africa thing...im not a geologist.  Also, mid east has many MANY more people, so why kill of more of a major minority, jews?


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
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-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 7:19 PM on October 16, 2002 | IP
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If the others arab nations wanted the palestiniens to have there own state why dont they forfeit land....they have vast expanses of unused land and tons of money to help in the effort. The jewish people have occupied that land longer than any other ethic group...but they have continually been taken over by large muslim groups in the past...the arabs backed adolph hitler during ww2 and this is why they lost the land that was made into israel...but the british and american goernments along with jewish investors legally purchased the land in which israel is now a part of...every acre of land was paid for and unforcefully bougth by the jews...now they want the land back for free after the jews have developed it from a dessert into a thriving country...this is uncalled for
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:11 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Since america and brittain is treatied with isreal, we got their backs.  So obviously, we take the side of middle easterners.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:27 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
Chai

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"Guest", whoever you are, is completely right (and yes, I am Jewish and said that for argument's sake) TheArabs just got their pride hurt when the Jew made the desert bloom, and then they made the Jews give back land they rightfully won...
 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 10:47 AM on October 21, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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that guest was me chai but it keeps calling me guest for some reason....but yes that is true....all the excess money and land of the other arab nations and you would think they would or could give it to the palestinians


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:59 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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you can't just say it's the israelis fault or the arabs' fault. it's some people on both sides. Arafat, like all terrorists, thinks he can benefit from the status quo. Sharon is a murderer. The leaders of surrounding Muslim states don't give a rat's ass about their own people, let alone the Palestinians. Hamas and Hezbollah don't want peace or a palestinian state as much as they want to obliterate Israel for religious reasons. If any one has the most power to change the status quo (realistically), though, it is Israel. I understand no one wants to negotiate with terrorists, but this situation is a bit more complicated than a hijacked bus. Israel should see the two paths here that must happen simultaneously. They must go after terrorists but recognize that talks (serious ones) with moderates must happen at the same time. No more of this ridiculous "we must have 1 week of no violence" before talking. and the palestinians have a responsibility to reform their gov't. GET RID OF ARAFAT!!


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 02:02 AM on October 22, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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well, actually i do claim that one side is nearly 100% right (israeli) and one isn't. What I will concede is that rationality isnt going to save the day here, no matter how persuasively someone tells the palestineans WHY they are wrong, they wont stop suicide bombing until they drive israel into the sea (lets not delude ourselves into thinking they only want the wb and gaza). Now, when presented with a group that attacks you with no provocation, and no legitimate demands, how do you respond? In my opinion, with force. And thus Israel should simply employ its vastly superior armed forces and smash the resistance. Its that simple.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:47 PM on October 22, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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Yes but how many Palestinians are part of these groups? Do you just ignore them while you fight against the terrorists? So everywhere there are terrorists mixed in with people with legitimate problems that need to be addressed, we just allow those civilians to be held hostage as it were by the fanaticism of a few? Of course Israel has a right to defend itself, and I agree the suicide bombers (as I said in my post) are fighting to push Israel out, not for peace or a Palestinian nation (evidence of that can be seen by the fact that suicide bombings go way up in frequency whenever peace talks or ceasfires are about to begin). But I believe there are moderates among Palestinians, and they shouldn't have to wait to be noticed until after every Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Aqsa terrorist is dead. Now, as for the Israelis being right...Sharon killed like 300 innocent people in his raid on a refugee camp in 1983 (i hope that year is right...). He is just fighting to support the settler lobby while stringing the USA along. He doesn't give a $hit about Palestinians.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 9:59 PM on October 22, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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its kind of hard not to kill civilians when terrorist hide behind civilians as human shields. look at saddam hussein during the gulf war he filled his palaces with women and childre so we could not bomb them. The fact is that a lot of israelis will die to terror if these terrorist arnt killed and if one palestinian citizen is killed then technically didnt that one life forfeit itself to save more . im not saying its okay but whith the problems we have now days we need to think of the big picture and not just a small sector.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:16 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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I never claimed every single palestinean was an evil terrorist. Rather, I would say that their claims are false (that they need a state in "palestine"). The problem is not that they are all evil, and the solution is not to carpetbomb the region. The problem is they are wrong but think they are right, and they agree with the terrorist claims if not tactics, and the solution is to turn this into a war to make it clear who is the civilians and who is not. If they have a gun or grenade and are firing at you, they aren't a civilian. Simple.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 3:00 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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if they were hiding behinfd a civilian and shooting at you and you would die if you didnt shoot back what would you personally do. it is kill or be killed and any human has the instincts to live. i would rather kill one innocent and one guilty than to be killed or severly wounded. honestly


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 3:18 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I hate to keep attacking your faith (which is also mine) but Jesus saw no problem in sacrificing himself for a bunch of worthless, pathetic sinners, and we, as Christians, are told to strive to be like him...any of this sinking in?  You're willing to kill 2 people to save yourself from being wounded?  Quite the selfish one aren't we?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 8:52 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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c'mon, thistown,
give the guy a break. he is just recognizing that government's cannot function as christians. armies cannot be good Christians. we try to be good humans, but what's the point in waging war to stop, let's say the Holocaust, (a just war I think obviously), if we expect each of our soldiers to lay down his arms instead of shooting. I like you thistown, but right now you sound like gandhi, who idiotically said the british should have surrendered to the nazis rather than kill to defend themselves. that is twisted morality. and madbilly, I am not talking about collateral damage. I agree with you and that is obvious. dsadevil, why should the palestinians not have their own state? oh, and answer this, how can Israel be a democracy but be a JEWISH state? isn't that a contradiction? I think democracy must be secular, which means they have no argument against allowing the palestinians' right to return. and if I was a person living in such conditions for my whole life, I (would like to think i would still not be a terrorist but) might latch onto any "robin hood" figures who championed my cause, even if their methods were yucky.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:46 PM on October 23, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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What I am saying has nothing to do with the government or the military, I talking about him, his decisions, and his actions.  I think I've specified it enough.  I'm asking him what HE would do, not what the military would or should do.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:20 AM on October 24, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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what i would do has no regard as to what we as a nation should do in respesct to peace in the middle east which is what the topic is.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:38 AM on October 24, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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a democracy means that all citizens get a vote. A country has the right to determine who they allow into their nation. They can let in anybody, select people, or nobody at all. The Israeli govenment is no different, it can decide who it wants to allow into the country. HOWEVER, Israeli Arabs, that is Arabs currently living in Israel who do have citizenship (the ones who didn't flee to allow Jordan et al to destroy the new Israel in the War of Independence) to have the right to vote, and exercise. Hence the presence of the Israeli Arab party in the Israeli Knesset.
As long as Israel a) allows all religions the freedom to practice (which it does...to an extent. More so than many nations anyway) and b) doesn't discriminate between citizens, I say it can do what it wants (dont take it to technicalities, you know I mean that in a general sense).
So now we've established that Israel is upholding its responsibilty as a democracy (i dont like some of its judiasm based policies, but that is a seperate issue than the I/P conflict). So now we go to the so-called "right of return"
Those people are for the most part people who fled during the War of Independence, 1948. During that war, the invading arab armies broadcast messages urging residents to flee so that they wouldnt interfere with the army operation to destroy Israel. Some arabs ignored the announcement. They became Israeli Arabs, full Israeli citizens. Some did listen. I have little sympathy for them. They counting on Jordan destroying Israel. They were wrong. They bet on the losing horse, and Israel therefore has no obligation to them. Not only that though, but the right of return would not just extend to the actual people that fled, but necessarily their families and descendants as well. This makes the population of "returnees" swell, overwhelming the Jewish population of Israel. Now normally, we would agree that "hey thats democracy" and move on. Except that Arabs don't play nicely with Jews. They kill Jews. They would start pogroms before you could say "Haj Amin El Husseini." Jews deserve one country that is GUARENTEED not to kill them. Israel fulfills that purpose. An arab state in what is now Israel does the reverse.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:48 PM on October 24, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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well put and i dont see how or why anyone with a brain coulkd really disagree.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:42 AM on October 25, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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Well I have about a third of a functioning brain, and i don't disagree yet, I am just trying to understand. Couldn't it be that many people fled cause they were afraid of being caught in the crossfire, and not necessarily because they all relished the idea of Jews being slaughtered? And saying, "Except that Arabs don't play nicely with Jews. They kill Jews, " well, that sounds a little rough to me. and what is a pogrom?  and why can't israel give the palestinians a state?


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 06:31 AM on October 25, 2002 | IP
kc2gwx

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"its kind of hard not to kill civilians when terrorist hide behind civilians as human shields. look at saddam hussein during the gulf war he filled his palaces with women and childre so we could not bomb them."

Not only did he do this, he had another plan like this too.

He wanted to take some POWs and tie them up to his tanks, so that we would not fire on them.

It was a completely failure. Just an intersting fact.




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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 11:12 AM on October 25, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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why does israel have to give them a state why doesnt iraq or iran or saudi arabia. these countries have vast expanses of unused land and tons of money.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 1:58 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Why would they fear being in the crossfire, when they were under no threat? The Arab armies never reached the areas these people fled from (had they, Israel would never had existed). They fled due to hate. And as for the statement "arabs kill jews" they do. They have since the era of the British mandate.
"I declare a holy war, my muslim brothers. Murder the Jews. Murder them all." -Haj Amin El Husseni, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, influential arab leader, archietect of anti-jew riots in the future Israel during the 1930s.
There are two arab nations with diplomatic relations with Israel, Jordan and Egypt. EVERY SINGLE OTHER ARAB NATION is currently in a technical state of war with Israel. Each of these governments spouts out hate speech and lies about jews and israel (the blood libel comes to mind). Iraq pays money to the families of suicide bombers. Why do they do this? certainly not to get in America's good graces. In fact, as Tom Friedman and other mid-east analysts all agree, it is to pacify and redirect the attention of these nation's population, because the leaders know their bloodthirsty hatred of Israel outweighs their domestic discontent.

But after that, Alex asks a legitimate question "why can't Israel just give the palestineans a state?" This is something heard relatively often, but it is based off the common misconception that currently their is no palestinean state. This is incorrect. The state of Jordan was specifically established to be the "palestinean state." there is no reason they need two, especially considering that Jordan is 3x the size of Israel. Today by demographics Jordan is 66% palestinean. Why do the Palestinean's need a second state? Why can't they, like Israel, settle for just one?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 3:23 PM on October 25, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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well put i did not know that jordan was a palestinian state i guess i learned something new today.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:36 AM on October 26, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Let's think of this logically: mid east has a CRAPLOAD of land, but wants israel because it was 'taken' from them.  Irael is an obviously huge, gigantic, bigger-than-US place with a bunch of minorities (jews).  Mid east is stoopid enough to want a place that big.  Mid east should leave the israely dudes alone.  Israel had to fight back or
1. Lose their holy place
2. Lose a shizzit-load of people who are executed for not liking the surrender
3.  Lose another shizzit-load of people who are disliked by the mid east
4. Be hobos all their life
5. Lose cool points for being weak idiots.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 5:20 PM on November 1, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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no israel is very small not even the size of new york state..about the size of maryland.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:44 AM on November 2, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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specifically, Israel (including the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Heights) is the size of Vancouver Island. The rest of the middle east is 660x that size.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:45 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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But that one little space is the holy land for many people, who is to say one is right and one is wrong?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 5:46 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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actually, that little space is the holiest land for christians and jews, and ranks 3rd for muslims (to mecca and medina). If im creating a list of jewish holy sites, it goes 1) jerusalem 2) hebron 3) manhatten island. Does that mean that israel can annex the lowereast side? I think not.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:43 PM on November 4, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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well if the palestinians do get there state out of israels land i would push for the annex if i was israel...i think that it is just as afir but that will never happen so i guess the palestinians should just shut up and quit suicide bombing bc they are low lifes and the fact is that the palestians hail these pieces of fecal matter as heroes and teach children in school that it is good and these people are martyrs....these people are scum and israel should be more militant in dealing with teh palestinians...i wouldnt care if men women and children were killed on accident by the israelis...it is honest self defense and the palestinians kill men women and children...why is it so bad that women are killed we are supposed to be equal so it is no different from killing a man i can understand it is bad for children to die but in war all is fair and everyone pays a price....it is a terror motive when the palestianas hide behind children and build terrorist compounds near schools and daycare if these people where humane thay wouldnt do this for the kids sake but they dont care about there own children obviously,,,,in dessert storm saddam hussein filled all his palaces with women and children so we could not bomb them...but he didnt tell us he did he wanted us to find out in one of two ways...1) through intelligence and spies...2)after the fact by CNN cameras displaying a horrific scene to the world....luckily for political sake we found out through isralei intelligence. These middle easterers are a waste of sperm and instead of war we should just solve the problem the way the australians solved the problem with rats severly overpopulating and destroying crops and people getting ran out of there homes...we should "spike" there water supply with a chemical that would make the men sterile so no more children will have to live around these pieces of dogshit that have no right to conduct themselves in the manner they do.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:11 PM on November 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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by the way i dont care what you say about my last post i hate the fact that we all have to be politically correct...who care i shure as hell dont and this topic is a hailstorm...so dont say im evil and blah blah blah...bc you know what i dont care if you say one bad thing about this the you are a sympathizer with terrorist and terrorist states in my eyes.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 12:15 PM on November 5, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I think you're getting politically correct and not stupid mixed up.  It seems to me that you've been brainwashed, like so many other Americans into thinking that the Israelies are doing nothing more than pourging their God-given land from the Palestinian war.  Let me tell you something, Israel is no saint, and I fail to see how Israel shelling Palestinian cities and the Palestinian suicude bombs are so different.  Why is one terror and the other defense?  Israel has backed the Palestinians into a corner and they are responding with their own form of defense since they lack any type of real military.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:46 PM on November 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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no israel hasnt shelled a city, they strategically send missles into terroist compounds and every now and then arafats palace...never at civilians but always at targets. If i was brainwashed by political Rhetoric then i would be sayng fir them not to retaliate but instead to negotiate...you cant negotiate with piece of cow dung inbreed low life muslim morons


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 4:28 PM on November 5, 2002 | IP
Erskat

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[color=black]
Here is a story that i shall supply with you for your entertainment:

2 years ago, the Prime Minister of Israel, the Prime Minister of Palestine, and the President of the U.S were meeting at Camp David to reach a Peace Agreement.  At the start of the meeting, the Prime Minister of Israel said" before we start, I'd like to tell you a little story.  A long time ago, King David went down to a river in Israel to take a bath.  He took off his clothes and went in.  When he came out, his clothes were gone.  And you know who took it?  It was a Palestinian!"
"NO" Screamed the Prime Minister of Palestine, " That's not possible, we weren't even around back then."
Then the Prime Minister of Israel said:
"Now we can begin to talk"





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Listen to Rock
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 7:51 PM on November 5, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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What do you think the Israeli's battery of the West Bank in helicopter gunships was?  340 houses were destroyed. leaving 1/3 of the camp homeless and killed 82, 52 of which were civilians.   Palestine has no helicopter gunships, so they use themselves.  I'm not saying they are right, but I'm definitely not saying the Israelis were right.  The point is, neither is right.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 9:24 PM on November 5, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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Madbilly, you don't happen to be one of those rednecks who drives around my neighborhood knocking off mailboxes and sniffing glue, are you? You just reminded me of them...


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:28 PM on November 5, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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well when i was sixteen we used to do stuff like that byt we never sniffed glue...that is for trailor trash. but we were a band of rednecks that liked to fight, hunt and drink beer. And raise hell!!!


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:02 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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wow, you're every gay guy's dream friend. with all that shooting defenseless cuddly forest creatures, beating people up, getting plastered and destroying property, how did you ever find time to be the good Christian you are???


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 05:48 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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You're older than 16?  That's scary.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 09:35 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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southern baptist are exempt from your idea of typical christians....do you eat meat bc shooting "cuddly" animals is not only fun but also very nourishing...mmm best and cleanest meat in the world is deer meat. Beating people up "i think i will declare the writ of boys will be boys"....all guys get into fights at some point and if not then they dont stand for what they believe. I was taught to fight and told by my dad that if i ever backed down then i not only would loose repect and dignity to those i cowarded from but i would get an ass whoopin when i got home. as johhny cash said "i knew i had to get tough or die". If any guy says he didnt raise hell as a teenager then he was probaly one of the kids that got picked on.////im older than sixteen and that is scary?...im 20 and when im 23 ill be an airline pilot (when i am legally old enough) so just remember that all of these airline pilots you trust with you lives act about the same as i do so i guess you probaly dont want fly anymore do you.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:21 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Nope.  Your the kind of guy that would buzz the flight tower to show everybody what a large set of testicles you have.  I've never been in a fight.  Doesn't mean I don't stand up for what i believe, it simply means I'm not a hypocritical knuckle-dragger.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:35 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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buzz the flight tower..you get that idea from topgun...to do so you would have to ask permission..if it is given then you can and if not say goodbye to all the 120,000 dollars you spent on flight training bc you license is revoked and no one will hire you if you have a safety infraction on your record...knuckle dragger? okay im shure you stood for what you believe while you where in high school and middle school, just tell that to the play ground bully, not ever one can escape a morons cruel intentions so you have to fight, btw what are you going to college for bc iv done my time and will start a very high paying career so that is pretty good for a knuckle dragger i guess bc pilots are in americas top 1 percent of pay..and they have a lot of political power with their union...shure the major airlines are laying off but not one pilot has been, and regionla airlines are still hiring so my future is bright and one day ill swing by mcdonlads and congradulate you on you managers position you earned with your degree from your typical college.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:18 AM on November 6, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Wow.  You are the man.  You are the MAN!!!

Please let me come over to your house, we can hang out in your hot tub and pour champagne on all over your concubine's chest while we light cubans with hundred dollar bills.

Wait a second....average starting salary for a major airlines pilot on a 747 is $27,500?!?!?!  Doesn't this throw a wrench in your plan.  What happened to top 10%?  Oh that's the senior captain's salary.  The same senior captain whose average experience is 26 years making $27,500.  

I'll grant you that, you work your butt off for 30 years, there is a slight chance that you might be in the top 10%.  But by that time you'll be 55 years old and none of this will matter because you'll realize what a narrow-minded idiot you were.  Or maybe you'll be the same stupid redneck, still measuring a person's worth by their salary.  You're still stuck in high school, having contests to see who has the biggest penis, except now your dick is your job.  Grow up.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:54 PM on November 6, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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and for that reason, Israel is a superior nation to the arab states.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 6:15 PM on November 6, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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i'm not a therapist, but i think i sense a little bit of hostility between thistown and madbilly. (not a therapist, but very corny).  Anyway,  saddly enough billy he is right about the pay.  i checked a few sites and starting pay or even pay for experienced pilots is anywhere but in the top 1% of the nation.  just look at all those athletes, actors, musicians, etc, etc, that pull in millions upon millions every year.  and who knows, maybe the job at mcdonald's is better than the pilot job.  it's cliche, but money isn't everything.  money can't buy happiness.  yeah you've heard 'em all a million times.  but you wouldn't have heard 'em all a million times if there was no truth in them.  i think it would be a "knuckle-dragger" tendency to try to earn all the money you can so you can buy all the material things you can, and hopefully attract all the women you can.  and what else would you do with all that salary you're going to making.  certainly not donate it to charity.  what's wrong with having enough to live on and be happy with?  and no, you don't tons and tons of material possesions to be happy.  greed sucks.  learn to be happy with what you have.


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 6:22 PM on November 6, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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that pay scale is totalyy wrong for the fact that no one flys a 747 until they have been in the airlines for a very long time. Arline pilots start flying regional in 737 and 727...smaller planes and they as a flight engineer or a copilot make around 27,500 which is probationary pay until they receive 1000 hours flight time in the aircraft. that many hours takes around 11-12 months to get. after the hours are acquired and the person is type rated in that particular aircraft then the pay is doubled after the first year. seniority comes from hours not from years...it takes a long time to fly 747 bc these airplanes fly overseas and other long flights...the website where you got your info is full of crap..i know yahoos salary wizard is...bc it says a flight instructor in tulsa ok makes around 70,000 per year, and that is for flying cessnas...that is really really over rated. but it says that flight engineers make more than pilots of a 777...this is wrong bc flight engineers are just new pilots or old pilots whos vision went bad and they do not make more than the pilots.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:17 PM on November 6, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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okay i just went to yahoos salary wizard and the median starting pay for a large turbine  (jet) aircraft is $85,744...where are you getting 27,500 i make that now as a crappy instrutor/cancelled chesk cargo carrier in a cessna. flight attendents make more than that.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:32 PM on November 6, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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actually, i checked out a place called www.aviationnet.com.  seems like a pretty reliable source to me.  you might wanna look there too.



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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 12:49 AM on November 7, 2002 | IP
    
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