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tsmith2771

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What do you all think was the most devistating war that America has ever been in throughout its history?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 02:33 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I think the first 2 world wars, especially WWII, actually had a positive effect on US morale and character, lives are a different story.

I think the Vietnam War was the most destructive of all wars.  Instead of standing together to face the enemy, Americans instead hated the government and each other.  Returning soldiers were shunned and hated instead of greeted with parades and cheers.  The US government openly killed its own people.  No other war incubated such deception and fear.  Nothing kills confidence and morale faster than seeing that you are losing a war to a tiny third world country.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 02:45 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Technically the United States has never lost a war.  Anyone who hates a soldier for returning home alive should be lock up.  This person is fighting so you can sleep at night safely.  The american military is what made this country.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 02:49 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Well that's the problem.  Americans could see the purpose behind the world wars, etc.  They were literally so we could sleep at night, but Vietnam seemed utterly pointless.  What started as a small political conflict turned into what appeared to the average citizen as exchanging blows with nothing but US pride on the line.  What was the threat?  What were we fighting for?  In my opinion, Vietnam was one of the worst mistakes in US history.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 02:54 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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The threat was the spread of communism.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:00 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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What to Laos?  Cambodia?  Not exactly powerhouses.  And besides, this "threat" was nothing more than speculation.  The actual effects of communism were over-exaagerrated to up support.  You have to draw a line, a war of this magnitude should not have occured over speculation.  The war became one of appearances, the US could not pull out in defeat at the risk of losing global support and more importantly, respect.  It was a matter of pride.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 03:14 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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It was more along the lines of South Korea being overtook by the north which was communist and the fear was that with a whole communist country they would go under the wing of the USSR.  Even though vietnam was a low point in military history, we still have yet to lose a war.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:43 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Tell me how we won the war in Vietnam.  the judgment is a strategic one....the American commitment to Vietnam exaggerated its importance. What happened on the ground in that country could not alter the basic shape of the strategic competition between the United States and the Soviet Union. It was a distraction, one that wasted resources of every kind.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 09:16 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
kc2gwx

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The Civil war was, by far, the most devastating war the USA has ever been in. It killed more people than any other war (600,000), and literally split our nation is two.

We won the vietnam war? That's a new one on me...


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 10:10 AM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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We did not win or lose the vietnam war cause it never was a war technically and yes the civil war was the worst killing over 618,000 people.  More people died during the civil war then all other wars combined up until almost the end of desert storm.  Here is a crazy fact, last march was the 100,000 day sincec the civil war ended and to date there are over 100,000 books on the civil war published.  It is by far the most documented war to date.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 1:43 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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we need more pacifists in the us government


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 2:51 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Why, so we can be invaded?


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 2:53 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Up there I got off on a tangent on north and south korea, don't ask me where that came from cause I have no idea.  I got vietnam and korea confused in my head.  


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 5:16 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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actually, if our government was pacifist, the chance of us being invaded would greatly decrease. the only reason why nearly the whole world hates us is because we have troops in virtually every country and we constantly threaten to take a country to war if they have a leader we dont like. no war means peace.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 5:44 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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One of the greatest quotes from one of the greatest mind ever.  "The greatest way to start a war is by peace."  ----Albert Einstien


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 5:54 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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And I suppose Albert Einstein would be the absolute authority, with all that political and military experience.


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 7:54 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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If you think about it in reality it is true.  


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 8:04 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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The swiss seem to be doing just fine, Canada, etc.


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 8:09 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Canada is basically the United States.  No one would attack Canada for the fact that the us would look at it like a premptive move to attack America so they would jump in.  Switerland will not be invaded for the same reason the nazi's never invaded them.  Each house as an automatic weapon and 400 rounds of bullets on hand.  


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 8:40 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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war sucks. thats all there is to it. it kills millions of people. and if it wasnt for war hawks like urself, our country would be a much better place to live in today.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:38 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Our country is what it is today because of the US military.  Everything you have such as freedom of speech, right to bare arms, the ability to sleep at night is all due back to the soldiers.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:59 AM on November 21, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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yeah, we earned that right because of the Revolutionary War. but since we already have all of those, then why keep going to war against other countries? what if we lost a war and another country took us over? i firmly believe that the fate of the United States will be the same as the fate of the Roman Empire was.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:51 PM on November 21, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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For the most part we are one of the most envyed countires in the world.  With out an army to protect us someone would surely try to take us over.  With a standing army and navy standing by is basically says don't try it with us.  I am not referring to terrorist cause we all know they can get past, but a whole country trying to invade, that would never work.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 4:20 PM on November 21, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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And with your peace outlook, if this country was invaded would you stand up and fight or be overtaken.  What would you do if your wife and daughter were raped and killed?  Would you stand by and say "I am a peaceful man and I will not fight?"  How would you feel that men all over america would be fighting to save YOUR freedom but you comdemn it?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 4:23 PM on November 21, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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going to Iraq to fight for oil is not defending anyone's freedom!!!


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:09 PM on November 21, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Going to Iraq to destroy a man that is hell bent on building nuclear weapons to destroy the United States is.  The oil is a bonus.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 10:19 PM on November 21, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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kinda sad then that the oil is the biggest motivator isn't it?


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 11:28 PM on November 21, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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America is the most greediest country in the world. like I said, the US is going to be Roman Empire part 2


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 11:42 PM on November 21, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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The motivator is to get the chemical and biologiacal weapons.  The oil is a bonus.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 12:13 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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if we just minded our own business, maybe we wouldnt be the most hated country in the world.


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:29 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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i agree with you on that, but it is to late now..we are to involved with stuff to just mind our own buisiness, plus we need to back our only two allies who have always and will always back us (israel, and britain). we should have never played a part in international politics with the excepton of ww2, and defending israel from the idiotic muslims....which consequently plays a part with all the terrorst nations we must topple....we need not be afraid to go to war. We have given these people enough warning and it is time for them to pay a toll for what they have done...the arabs need to be stopped and now...


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:10 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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The Arabs need to be stopped now???  We call that racism here in America.


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 03:17 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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no bc we are talking about contries not necesarrilly the race..i guess i should of thrown in the north koreans also. Any country that behaves like these should be stopped..so dont call me racist, my point of views towards other races is none of your damn business


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:35 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Fallingupward, you never answered my question.  How would you feel if this country was invaded and you won't fight and millions of men fought and died to save YOUR freedom.  How would you feel that you stood on the sidelines and didn't stand up and defend yourself?  Would you still condemn war if this country was invaded or would it be alright if that war was saving your butt from being taken over, your mother, wife and daughter from being raped and murdered, your father, yourself and your sons from being killed?  What would you do?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 06:25 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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tsmith, do you really and sincerely believe that if that oil was not the "bonus" so to speak, that our country would be so adamant about getting those chemical and biological weapons out.  i'm sure we've known about those for quite some time, we just didn't want the oil as bad then.  


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 09:07 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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You're right, it isn't my business, just making an obvious observation.  Everyone on this board already knows.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 09:15 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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whenever i tell someone that i am pacifist, they ask me the same question that you ask. madbilly may be right, maybe its already too late cuz we've made some horrible foreign policy mistakes. we never would be threatened by invasion if we would mind our own business. but anyhow, i guess that i will answer your question. if we ever were to get invaded and i honestly felt like our freedoms would be taken away, i would take up arms. so maybe i am not 100% pacifist, but one does have to be reasonable. however, i do believe that war should be a last resort, and we should only fight if we were invaded. otherwise, do not go to war!!!! that means no iraq!!!!


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:26 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i hope that answered your question


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:27 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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That does answer my question and I respect your answer.  I will change the oil from a bonus to a motivator.  Even without the oil though iraq definitly needs to be stoped because of their policies.


-------
"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 7:08 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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you act like we will just get tons of oil from iraq after the war....truth is iraq is already putting up 75% of what opecs maximum output is....a 25% increase in iraqs oil production will not give us nearly as much oil as you think..it will probaly be enough to drop the prices 10 cents per gallon says some speculation i heard on the radio.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:41 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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and there's no way 10 cents a gallon (or even one dollar a gallon) is worth going to war over


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:26 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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well my pont is that oil is not the motivation..bush comes from a family of texas oil men and is a texas oil man himself. Us not getting oil from iraq means that we use more oil from texas and that makes him richer. Us going to alaska would also make him and america better off. Oil isnt the motivation near as much as many believe.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 03:05 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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bush would do anything to get richer


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 03:58 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
    
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