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       To be a leader, do you need a high IQ?

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Faze

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Intelligence isn't everything when it comes to leadership.


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Use your mind - don't let it rot, let those words flow - don't let them get stuck
And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 09:43 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
Faze

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Wow! no one's interested? I'm actually hoping to find people whom i could discuss this because we'll be debating this in class..


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And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 10:01 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Well, you did give us a whole 18 minutes...


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:27 AM on December 4, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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i dont think you need a high IQ, look at Bush, i actually think people that rate their intellegence on their IQ are conceded bastards.  but i do believe that the person that is to become leader should know what he is leading, and know the aspects of that position.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 2:20 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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hahahah, bush


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 6:09 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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I think it partialy depends on what's being lead. If it's something like a country, where all kinds of people are being lead, some of the importance of IQ is replaced with the importanced of charm. If it's on some project and all the participants are smart and have devoted their life to it, then the friendships between the leader and others aren't as important, but intelligence is. IQ isn't everything. Leadership skill is also very important. But people can be smart enough to fake charm and leadership.
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 6:36 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I read somewhere that Bush's IQ is 98, the lowest of any president.  Clinton has the highest, 182, and my favorite president, Jimmy Carter, is in 3rd with 175.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:19 PM on December 4, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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my fav is FDR


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:55 AM on December 5, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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The problem is that the state of the world and the general populace rewards stupid leaders. Gee, they sure are go getters. People who are intelligent and act slowly are not as popular in this war for oil world.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 02:40 AM on December 5, 2002 | IP
FreedomFighter13

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I agree with Maynard, look at Bush!! I could run the country if all it depened on was IQ!


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Posts: 34 | Posted: 2:55 PM on December 5, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Call him an idiot, call him what you want but I highly doubt his IQ is 98, the man went to Yale.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:20 AM on December 6, 2002 | IP
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i love pewsident bush...he is awesome.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 04:18 AM on December 6, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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he went to yale because of his father


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 08:55 AM on December 6, 2002 | IP
locagirl

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correct, he wouldnt have made it in if it weren't for his dad! i think you need both intelligence and leadership skills. a good leader sets a good example for the people he/she is leading, can make decisions, is fair, and is well-respected. there are a couple parts in being a leader.  in order to have followers, you need to get stuff done, which requires intelligence, and be a friendly person, so people follow you.
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 10:58 AM on December 6, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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And there is a difference between being smart and being hard-working, I'll admit he is very hard-working and goal oriented but let's face it the man is about as sharp as a marble.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 1:26 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Father or not he still graduated from yale, who here can say that?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 6:58 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Quote from thistownwilleatu at 11:19 PM on December 4, 2002 :
I read somewhere that Bush's IQ is 98, the lowest of any president.  Clinton has the highest, 182, and my favorite president, Jimmy Carter, is in 3rd with 175.



heard it somewhere?  on the democratic parties homepage maybe? this is crap, not so much Bush, even though I know his is higher, but Clinton at 182? that is like Einstien!, there is way in heck the most deplorable presedent this courty ever had, had and IQ of 182.  I mean "I did not inhale" "I didnt not have sexual relations with that woman" face it, this guy is a moron.




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People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 8:14 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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What you said about clinton doens't make him a moron, it makes him a liar.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 12:18 AM on December 7, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Bush actually was not hard working for most of his life, as he admits. I'll start looking for the quote as I know it will be asked for.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:33 AM on December 7, 2002 | IP
meditate

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alright, Bush sux. Clinton sucked worse. but Bush is Better than Gore would have been. IQ has nothing to do with leadership either. Hell, Einstein couldn't tie his own shoes for a long time !!!! It was too simple for him to understand. Leadership is too simple for people with Einstein-ish IQ's.


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Meditate
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 07:52 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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If Gore was president we would not be here right now.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 3:20 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from tsmith2771 at 3:20 PM on December 8, 2002 :
If Gore was president we would not be here right now.



where would we be?  i voted for Nader.  


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 5:09 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
meditate

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yea, if Gore were here, we'd all probably be dead. From the debates i saw while he was running for president, i'm guessing he would have already started world war III. Nader would have been the best choice.


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Meditate
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 5:41 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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No gore probably would have slapped osama on the wrist and called him a bad boy.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 6:09 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
meditate

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LOL either way, we are better now than we would have been if Mr. Gore from the great State of Tennessee(and if you talk to many people in tennessee...we don't like him lol)was president :D


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Meditate
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 6:42 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Faze

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whoa guys! sorry, i was out when this discussion was on, anywayz... I know we all have individual differences, on who we want as presidents but hey! i know i forgot to put the parameters for this topic but let's not go too far from the real subject. You know, i too, think that IQ isn't just the BIG factor for being a leader. For me, it starts  with  THE ability to LEAD and the attitude this said leader has towards his companions, their work and their goals. It  doesn't matter if you're the Einstein type or just the average one but what i say is, if you have the "it", the personality and the enthusiasm to lead the people to the right path, then you got yourself as a LEADER!


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Use your mind - don't let it rot, let those words flow - don't let them get stuck
And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 08:31 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I'll find where I got the IQ's.  I'm pretty sure it was credible.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:06 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Faze

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It doesn't matter if the source where you got that information is credible. It's not the point here, maybe we should really go back to the topic guys. This forum isn't just concentrated to Bush or Gore or any other US Presidents. Though they're leaders, they're not just the Only Ones


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Use your mind - don't let it rot, let those words flow - don't let them get stuck
And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 11:26 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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I like how people just arbitrarily decide that Gore would have killed us all. Yeah, maybe he'd give a slap on the wrist, but that's more than Bush has done at this point.
http://salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/03/25/tomo/index.html
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 1:59 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
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You do not need to be intelligent to be a leader, but yet people still insist that you do, take a look at shadow puppet and achilles, he ruled because of luck
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:32 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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Quote from Guest at 7:32 PM on December 11, 2002 :
You do not need to be intelligent to be a leader, but yet people still insist that you do, take a look at shadow puppet and achilles, he ruled because of luck


Wait!... you just used a fictional book to back up a debate? And, he had some luck, but (unless some major relevant plot is developed in to last 1/4 of the 3rd book) he was also a genius adn incredably manipulative.
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 7:35 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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no actually he was charming, and in a way all books are fictional. we can never know if that is exactly what happened even in history books

and you have to remember i am only 13 years old, what a hoot, i am still young
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:38 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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Quote from Guest at 7:38 PM on December 11, 2002 :
no actually he was charming, and in a way all books are fictional. we can never know if that is exactly what happened even in history books

and you have to remember i am only 13 years old, what a hoot, i am still young


Charm is a form of manipulation. the point remains the same, luck was only one factor.

All books being part fiction is irrelevent. Books like the one mentioned are written to be fiction. Although Mr. Card makes many good points about human minds and interaction, his characters can't be used as proof of the workings of the society his book is trying to emulate. The lucky parts are put in their to keep the plot moving. If he had stayed locked up, Mr. Card would be working on a different series.

I'm 13 too.
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 7:51 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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dont be foolish, he is working on another series. charm may be a form of mani[ulation, but if it was i would have stopped using my charm on tachers years ago, his characters can be used as proof, if ud notice he never specifies what the date is in his books, which may be a little off topic but important non0- the nless, 5 years ago everything he wrote in shadow puppets may have seemed like fiction, but now they're beginning yto come about more and more
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:01 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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-i am xenjael, sorry forgot to add
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:02 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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Quote from Guest at 8:01 PM on December 11, 2002 :
dont be foolish, he is working on another series. charm may be a form of mani[ulation, but if it was i would have stopped using my charm on tachers years ago, his characters can be used as proof, if ud notice he never specifies what the date is in his books, which may be a little off topic but important non0- the nless, 5 years ago everything he wrote in shadow puppets may have seemed like fiction, but now they're beginning yto come about more and more


Just for the fun of arguing of small, meaninless points... He's probably not doing anything but spening time with his family procrastinating (that what he said he usually does until a month before his deadline when I went to an interview/book signing of his). But, I don't think either of us know or that it matters. In the books, he uses charm to manipulated people. They trust him, even though he is a liar becuase he makes them like him. It does however, take place in the future (very younge children each have their own laptop in Ender's Game and Shadow Puppets takes place about 20/30 years later), and I don't see how that's relevant anyway. His characters can only be used in proof in the context  "this is a theory that an author found for some reason worthy enough to use in a book about how politics work" - Certainly, you can see, that to use that as evidence isn't to firm. Also, Achilles was a genius and a natural leader. And, also worthy of mention, in the book he is evil, terrible, and the main villain! Finally, currently we aren't battling aliens, we aren't trying to be the ones to control the world, and we aren't fighting an insane, genious who cares only for himslef and power. (Bin laden, hitler, and other comparable people all have very strong loyalty to their contry and most have strong religion beliefs)
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 8:36 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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Quote from mrmazet at 8:36 PM on December 11, 2002 :
Quote from Guest at 8:01 PM on December 11, 2002 :
dont be foolish, he is working on another series. charm may be a form of mani[ulation, but if it was i would have stopped using my charm on tachers years ago, his characters can be used as proof, if ud notice he never specifies what the date is in his books, which may be a little off topic but important non0- the nless, 5 years ago everything he wrote in shadow puppets may have seemed like fiction, but now they're beginning yto come about more and more


Just for the fun of arguing of small, meaninless points... He's probably not doing anything but spening time with his family procrastinating (that what he said he usually does until a month before his deadline when I went to an interview/book signing of his). But, I don't think either of us know or that it matters. In the books, he uses charm to manipulated people. They trust him, even though he is a liar becuase he makes them like him. It does however, take place in the future (very younge children each have their own laptop in Ender's Game and Shadow Puppets takes place about 20/30 years later), and I don't see how that's relevant anyway. His characters can only be used in proof in the context  "this is a theory that an author found for some reason worthy enough to use in a book about how politics work" - Certainly, you can see, that to use that as evidence isn't to firm. Also, Achilles was a genius and a natural leader. And, also worthy of mention, in the book he is evil, terrible, and the main villain! Finally, currently we aren't battling aliens, we aren't trying to be the ones to control the world, and we aren't fighting an insane, genious who cares only for himslef and power. (Bin laden, hitler, and other comparable people all have very strong loyalty to their contry and most have strong religion beliefs)


what i forgot to mention was aside from the technology, who i was referring to was me.

-i am xenjael

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:39 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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Quote from Guest at 8:39 PM on December 11, 2002 :
what i forgot to mention was aside from the technology, who i was referring to was me.

-i am xenjael



Wait... what?

 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 9:35 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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the person i was talking about was me, or it used to be me, ask dsadevil,  he knows all about it
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:31 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
mrmazet

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Quote from Guest at 05:31 AM on December 12, 2002 :
the person i was talking about was me, or it used to be me, ask dsadevil,  he knows all about it
-i am xenjael


What person you were talking about?

And why should I bother asking someone else guestions about you when you couold simply tell me.

(Edited by mrmazet 12/12/2002 at 06:42 AM).
 


Posts: 122 | Posted: 06:41 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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because, only dsadevil had the right to know, should he feel to tell you, he would, to be honest he knows more about than i do, even though i did it.
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 07:07 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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not only that, but if you take an iq test the scores are inconsistent even if you got all of the same answers correct as before on the same test7
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:30 AM on December 15, 2002 | IP
locagirl

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its bcuz it times u i think
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 1:11 PM on December 17, 2002 | IP
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maybe. but i think it is just a random guessing on the comps part
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:32 PM on December 18, 2002 | IP
locagirl

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haha so u think it uses a random number generator!?!? no wonder my internet iq tests always make my iq seem so high...maybe im not a genious after all
seriously i really dont think its completely made up, and ive taken some where it asks you how long it took you to complete it. i tested using the same answers and putting different times, it does make your score slightly higher the less time you take.
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 12:48 PM on December 19, 2002 | IP
Faze

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sheesh! when will i ever get a DIRECT reply? anywayz, for me, intelligence is a factor of being a leader yet it doesn't mean it's the big A. Intelligence might be the key of being able to do things - but not all.


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Use your mind - don't let it rot, let those words flow - don't let them get stuck
And mind you people, debating IS cool... so don't waste that witty talent - develop it up to its best
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 07:17 AM on January 4, 2003 | IP
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I read somewhere that Bush's IQ is 98, the lowest of any president.  Clinton has the highest, 182, and my favorite president, Jimmy Carter, is in 3rd with 175.


That was actually a made up complete comedy-show lie. It's an urban legend, bud. And the same goes for his SAT score- he got a 640 in English and a 740 in Math. Gore got something like a 740 in Math and 680 in English.

And what's the problem with having a president who's an X-alcoholic? I believe x-alcoholics are extremely great people, because they're careful.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:58 PM on January 11, 2003 | IP
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I read somewhere that Bush's IQ is 98, the lowest of any president.  Clinton has the highest, 182, and my favorite president, Jimmy Carter, is in 3rd with 175.


This is probably fake, like everyone says ;)  It looks a little .... unrealistic.



heard it somewhere?  on the democratic parties homepage maybe? this is crap, not so much Bush, even though I know his is higher, but Clinton at 182? that is like Einstien!, there is way in heck the most deplorable presedent this courty ever had, had and IQ of 182.  I mean "I did not inhale" "I didnt not have sexual relations with that woman" face it, this guy is a moron.


I doubt that Bush's IQ is higher... For sure, Clinton is MUCH smarter than Bush (the son, that is).  Bush got somewhere in life probably because his influential dad.  Their academic history indicates this...   For example, a person with Bush's high school academic record would never get into Yale... You can check Yale's acceptance stats to verify.  His SAT scores were A LOT lower than mine, and, to be frank, I am not smart at all.  Clinton, on the other hand, had poor parents.  He was raised by a single mother 'til he was four because his dad died, if I am correct?  In any case, the point is that his accomplishments are all due to him, not his influential relatives.

And, I have to agree that those things you said about Clinton don't make him a moron.  They may make him a liar... and what not, but not a moron.


I like how people just arbitrarily decide that Gore would have killed us all. Yeah, maybe he'd give a slap on the wrist, but that's more than Bush has done at this point.


I agree.  Although, if Gore had won, we'd probably be asleep ;)
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:41 PM on January 14, 2003 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Actually a friend of mine got that info from the celebrities section off of a MENSA subpage.  And Einstein never took the IQ test, but they estimate he was around 200.  And Clinton is stupid, but he is brilliant.  There is a difference between common sense and genius.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 8:59 PM on January 16, 2003 | IP
ghettocracka

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somewhere i heard clinton had an iq of like 150
i kinda doubt 180 something, thats insane


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Dave C
 


Posts: 48 | Posted: 2:26 PM on January 21, 2003 | IP
    
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