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     Human Cloning
       You can't make artificial minds

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Ethmi

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You may be able to make artificial human bodies, but you can't fake a mind.  It's like a computer.  You can build the computer perfectly, but if you don't program it, it's useless.  And programming a mind with computer chips would be impossible, unless you want the person to be a dumbass who is incapable of being taught anything and having emotions.  We want people who have minds of their own, and technology just can't make that!


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Posts: 68 | Posted: 12:05 AM on March 9, 2008 | IP
SilverStar

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The I dea of cloning yourself is all bu imposible, cloning you body is not.


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Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 01:40 AM on March 30, 2008 | IP
Ethmi

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But what's the point of cloning your body if you can't clone minds (hell, you can't even make them!)?


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Posts: 68 | Posted: 6:20 PM on March 30, 2008 | IP
forfunt1

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The human, in reality, is only a cloned mind.

There is no way to make an "exact-copy" of anything physical, however "identity" is negotiated in reasonable terms, and can therefore be duplicated.


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Posts: 163 | Posted: 7:21 PM on April 7, 2008 | IP
Ethmi

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Quote from forfunt1 at 7:21 PM on April 7, 2008 :
The human, in reality, is only a cloned mind.

There is no way to make an "exact-copy" of anything physical, however "identity" is negotiated in reasonable terms, and can therefore be duplicated.



No, no, no... You don't get it.  It is impossible to make a sentient mind.  As of now, we can only program computers.  And computers, no matter how complex they are, can only do what they're programmed to do.  They only do what you tell it to do.  But they are not sentient, and cannot make choices for themselves.  They feel no emotion, they can't know what they need, they don't say "No, I'm not going to make this decision that will ruin the rest of my life." unless they're programmed to.


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I like Swedish women.
 


Posts: 68 | Posted: 10:35 PM on April 12, 2008 | IP
forfunt1

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It is impossible to make a sentient mind, on this we agree.

Maybe you will see what I mean in your own time.


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Posts: 163 | Posted: 4:10 PM on April 14, 2008 | IP
SilverStar

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Actually you could, just it would be very difficult to program it in any other fashion than what is used today, conditioning.


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:58 PM on April 14, 2008 | IP
forfunt1

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SilverStar, what are you saying? I have a hard time following you.


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Posts: 163 | Posted: 11:05 PM on May 8, 2008 | IP
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I am saying that a sentient mind is just a programmed computer. A mighty complex and sophisticated, but still just a program no different from Vista, Apple, or Internet Explorer.


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 12:09 PM on May 14, 2008 | IP
forfunt1

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I am saying that I see no such thing (in the real world) as a "sentient mind". These words together form a contradiction in terms.

It is not impossible for the mind to think about feelings, and in doing so wonder about the origin of such feelings; this process leads to the inevitable conclusion that since the question as to the origin of feeling took place only in the mind, and can only lead to an answer that is in the mind as well, then the feeling must have happened in that same mind or there would be no idea to prove the feeling even happened. This way of thinking about feeling is a part of the human condition, entirely backwards of the natural way feelings happen.

A person has to forget that there is a world independent of thought, and feelings are not known (or thought about of course) in this world, in order to further remove them self to think they live in what they think is the real world, and take for granted that the conditions under which this 'ideal world' exists are all governed and invented by thought.

Anyway, the mind is not sentient, and cannot be, even though the human may will it to be so.


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Posts: 163 | Posted: 7:12 PM on May 14, 2008 | IP
SilverStar

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Definition of sentient

1.having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.

Definition of conscious

1.aware of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.



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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 1:01 PM on May 15, 2008 | IP
forfunt1

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Are you going anywhere with this?


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Posts: 163 | Posted: 10:53 PM on May 15, 2008 | IP
SilverStar

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Yes, I am saying that a mid that is self aware, based on it's definition is sentient. according to www.dictionary.com



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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 12:56 PM on May 16, 2008 | IP
forfunt1

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Moron.


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Posts: 163 | Posted: 5:31 PM on May 16, 2008 | IP
iangb

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forfunt, you're going to have to explain what your version of 'the real world' is. You might want to throw in how you (or anyone else) can perceive and/or prove the existence of this 'real world' given that it's not in the realm of the mind and you can only process your experiences through the medium of the mind.

You're not a Berkeley fan, are you?


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Posts: 81 | Posted: 9:32 PM on May 16, 2008 | IP
Jabba66

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Quote from SilverStar at 12:09 PM on May 14, 2008 :
I am saying that a sentient mind is just a programmed computer. A mighty complex and sophisticated, but still just a program no different from Vista, Apple, or Internet Explorer.


I disagree.  Computer programs can't think for themselves.  Minds can.



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Posts: 38 | Posted: 9:29 PM on May 26, 2008 | IP
SilverStar

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But could a mind just be  highly complex computer. Could it be that our computer technology just isn't advanced enough to make true AI? What besides the fact that the mind is organic and a computer isn't makes a mind different from a computer?


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 6:30 PM on May 27, 2008 | IP
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Computers are, at best, simplified versions of the human mind in so far as they are built to emulate the supposed function of the human mind. There is no link between computers and minds other then the links that are imagined for sake of argument.

AI (assuming you mean artificial intelligence) is redundant; intelligence is the name given to artifacts of the mind, and the label 'artificial' is given to describe an event or experience said to be direct attribute of an especially human mind-memory. When simplified, the artifact becomes simply a thought, and so does intelligence.

'True AI' is a contradiction in terms. I bet you can figure this out well enough on your own... just a hint, questions as to wether computers aren't organic or whether minds are, have absolutely no baring on truth, and will only confuse your original question (as confused as it already is) even more.


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Posts: 163 | Posted: 5:42 PM on June 25, 2008 | IP
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Artificial is just a term given to all things made by humans. So true AI would be intelligence created by a human.


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 10:37 PM on July 16, 2008 | IP
forfunt1

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sure it is... do you speak english?


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Posts: 163 | Posted: 9:16 PM on July 17, 2008 | IP
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yes i speak english


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 12:01 PM on December 6, 2010 | IP
    
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