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wisp

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timbrx
Lester
Programs on computers require intelligence -all I see is my monitor, I can imagine the material parts require chemistry but the programs encoded therein require intelligence.
DNA is programmed information. Non-material and originating from intelligence.
And since humans are a part of nature and making things like books and computers is a product of human nature than books and computers are just as natural as bird nests and termite mounds.
So then, do you guys see any information, intent, purpose and/or intelligence in bird nests, termite mounds, rabbit warrens, spider webs (and traps), beaver dams, burrows, ant galleries, etc?


Click on the image and watch a video of a cool spider that puts quartz stones in the entrance of its burrow and attaches a silk thread to... Bah, watch the video!



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 05:35 AM on July 11, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Still waiting for an answer.


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 11:56 PM on November 13, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Lester seems to have figured out an answer now... After all this time he says it's "obvious"...

Come and tell us all about it, Les!



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 4:29 PM on August 20, 2010 | IP
wisp

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Quote from Lester10 at 2:29 PM on August 20, 2010 in the thread > order ≠ > complexity:
Lester
If it’s not human manufactured then it’s purposeful activity carried out by an animal.
FINALLY!
This is why i've been asking you (for over a year now, i think) to tell me if you saw purpose in a spider web, or a burrow, or a beaver dam.
Obviously there’s purpose in them. As I recall it you asked whether there was information in them.
Sure. I made this one year old thread appear retroactively by the sheer power of my hatred for Yahweh. Just like when we found the Tiktaalik.


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 4:51 PM on August 20, 2010 | IP
Lester10

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Wispbird nests, termite mounds, rabbit warrens, spider webs (and traps), beaver dams, burrows, ant galleries, etc?


All intelligently designed and purposeful - like all manufactured things. Localization of heat energy.

And now....what are you looking for Wisp?



-------
Richard Lewontin: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism... no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door”
 


Posts: 1554 | Posted: 04:51 AM on August 21, 2010 | IP
Apoapsis

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Quote from Lester10 at 04:51 AM on August 21, 2010 :
Wispbird nests, termite mounds, rabbit warrens, spider webs (and traps), beaver dams, burrows, ant galleries, etc?


All intelligently designed and purposeful - like all manufactured things. Localization of heat energy.

And now....what are you looking for Wisp?




How does a planet form?


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Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 10:36 AM on August 21, 2010 | IP
Lester10

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Maybe they were created. What story do you prefer?


-------
Richard Lewontin: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism... no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door”
 


Posts: 1554 | Posted: 04:30 AM on August 22, 2010 | IP
wisp

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Lester10
bird nests, termite mounds, rabbit warrens, spider webs (and traps), beaver dams, burrows, ant galleries, etc?
All intelligently designed and purposeful - like all manufactured things. Localization of heat energy.

And now....what are you looking for Wisp?
By now, i don't even remember...

Oh, wait!

OK, so this spider had this program installed. Therefore Yahweh knew Adam would fucķ up. Is this correct? Was Adam aware of this situation?

Another thing: If you see intelligence and purpose not just in what Yahweh directly did, but in things built up by the things he made, then why couldn't the laws of Physics (things which Yahweh allegedly made) have built life?
Your excuse that "
can't happen because it needs intelligence" doesn't work, because the intelligence could be a consequence of the laws of Physics, just like you now admit that purposeful things (animal contraptions) were made by unthinking things (animals) thanks to the fact that they were made intelligently (by Yahweh). Well, this applies to Physics too (in your view).

If you say "
because there's no evidence", OK, but stop saying that it's a naturalistic assumption. Because our assumptions don't rule out that this was all part of some deity's plan anyway.


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 07:02 AM on August 22, 2010 | IP
Lester10

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Wisp
Another thing: If you see intelligence and purpose not just in what Yahweh directly did, but in things built up by the things he made, then why couldn't the laws of Physics (things which Yahweh allegedly made) have built life?


There's no evidence that the laws of physics can build life. Five decades + and it has become all the more obvious that the production of lots of different cell constituents each require special conditions; these special conditions are different for different molecular parts. Then you have 2LOT breaking molecules down as fast or faster than they can form. You need to protect the products in an unnatural way and unnaturally remove byproducts that are going to stop biopolymers from forming.

Fifty years of experimentation has shown more convincingly than ever that it can't be done.

Do you have some experiment that shows that it can be done because I don't know of any?

If there's no experimental evidence that it can be done naturally then what you've got is wishful thinking, not science.

Wisp
but in things built up by the things he made, then why couldn't the laws of Physics (things which Yahweh allegedly made) have built life?


That's not what evolutionists say. They teach the natural origin of life from some mythical primordial soup to school children as if it were a fact. Darwin's whole point in coming up with this theory was to find a way that life could form and change into every life form without a creator. It was one long theological argument.

If you don't have a way that first life formed then how do you know what happened thereafter.

Where did the information on the DNA come from?

For DNA to function, it has to have information which gets sent via a transportation mechanism to a receiver in order to make the proteins and the parts that decode the DNA are themselves made by the information on the DNA. So what came first? It's irreducibly complex. DNA needs the other parts of the system and the system needs DNA.  


-------
Richard Lewontin: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism... no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door”
 


Posts: 1554 | Posted: 10:23 AM on August 22, 2010 | IP
wisp

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Aren't you leaving some essential parts out?

Why did you ask me what i was looking for (pretending you're impatient, as if it wasn't you who cowardly avoided this question for a year)? To cowardly run away again?

Here it goes again: OK, so this spider had this program installed. Therefore Yahweh knew Adam would mess; up. Is this correct? Was Adam aware of this situation?

Lester10
Another thing: If you see intelligence and purpose not just in what Yahweh directly did, but in things built up by the things he made, then why couldn't the laws of Physics (things which Yahweh allegedly made) have built life?
There's no evidence that the laws of physics can build life. Five decades + blah blah blah blah blah
Are you kidding me? I answered this silliness beforehand.

If THAT's your problem, then stop saying we have naturalistic assumptions. Because naturalism has nothing to do with it.

So there's no inherent problem with that? It could well be, right? It's just that you have not seen evidence. Is that it?

Then you have 2LOT breaking molecules down as fast or faster than they can form.
Er... What?

I started a thread showing you autocatalysts. So stop talking bu||shit.  The 2LoT does nothing of the sort, and you never understood what it was about, obviously.

And i can support that "obviously", since you talk about "unnatural heat flow" and about exceptions made possible by intelligence, and BS like that which don't come from Science at all.
You need to protect the products in an unnatural way and unnaturally remove byproducts that are going to stop biopolymers from forming.
There's nothing unnatural about eating. You just begin by assuming it, and reach that same conclusion.

Fifty years of experimentation has shown more convincingly than ever that it can't be done.
1) You are lying your ass off. You know they weren't trying to produce life.
2) We've already answered this bu||shit plenty of times. If what you said was true (it isn't), you can say more than that about your god.

but in things built up by the things he made, then why couldn't the laws of Physics (things which Yahweh allegedly made) have built life?
That's not what evolutionists say.
So what?

I'm talking about the Theory of Evolution, and Abiogenesis. None of those preclude this option, even though smart people do. So, again, you have no reason to call them "natualistic".

And, by the way, you dodged the question.

They teach the natural origin of life from some mythical primordial soup to school children as if it were a fact.
You lie.
Darwin's whole point in coming up with this theory was to find a way that life could form and change into every life form without a creator. It was one long theological argument.
I don't care about Darwin's point, and i specially don't care about your appreciation of it.
If you don't have a way that first life formed then how do you know what happened thereafter.
By observing it. D'oh!

If you don't know how many animals were aboard the ark, how do you know how many kinds there are?

Oh, yeah, YOU DON'T.

Where did the information on the DNA come from?
Are you kidding me?

FROM THE ENVIRONMENT

Either that, or you're talking about something that doesn't exist.

For DNA to function, it has to have information
It has to have DNA.

Why talk about some phantom thing which is contained in the DNA, but is not a function of it?

Your concept of "information" is like a soul, but for things without a soul.

DNA needs the other parts of the system and the system needs DNA.
Start your own thread about that. Why don't you?

So you will just keep saying that there are some special things (purpose, information and stuff) which we don't see in Nature, but we actually see it in Nature all the time, and then you go ahead and say they're not natural, in spite of being subject to known laws and being in Nature.

Anything wrong with my depiction of your claims?



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:23 PM on August 22, 2010 | IP
    
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