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creationest6

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The Proof of Historians
Secular history supports the Bible. For example, in The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes:

“Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals:

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.”



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"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 6:17 PM on September 12, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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Second and third hand accounts, where's your coroborating evidence...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 10:04 PM on September 13, 2007 | IP
creationest6

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i give u evidence. u just wont exept it.


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"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:10 AM on September 16, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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i give u evidence. u just wont exept it.

Do you know what evidence is?  Because you haven't given us any evidence, just unsupported stories...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 7:46 PM on September 17, 2007 | IP
creationest6

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ever heard of Josh Mcdowells Evidence That Demands a Verdict? It is a book that is full for proof for a historicly accurate bible and i've got some.

Historical Evidence for the Bible

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If the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God, as it claims (2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21), we would expect there to be some evidence supporting these claims. After all, just because something claims to be the word of God does not make it true. We will examine the testimony of historical evidence to ask, Does the evidence support or deny the internal claims of the Bible?

Three tests can be applied to the Bible to see if it exhibits characteristics of a divine book that is without error. First, external evidence should confirm the truthfulness of the Bible in areas we can investigate. Second, internal evidence should show that, in one way or another, the Bible is unique. While these tests can establish the reliability of the Bible and lend support to the Bible's claims, they cannot prove its inspiration. However, the third test, a brief overview of Bible prophecy, will actually serve to verify the claim of divine inspiration.

The Testimony of History
External evidence from both archaeology and non-Christian writers confirms that the Bible--both Old and New Testaments--is a trustworthy historical document. Archaeologist Joseph Free has said that "Archaeology has confirmed countless passages which had been rejected by critics as unhistorical or contrary to known facts." [1] Renowned Jewish archaeologist Nelson Gluek confidently said that "It...may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the Bible." [2] Christian apologist Josh McDowell tells us that "After personally trying to shatter the historicity and validity of the Scriptures, I have come to the conclusion that they are historically trustworthy." [3]

Some scholars once said that Moses couldn't have written the first five books of the Bible (as the Bible says) because writing was largely unknown in his day. Then, archaeology proved otherwise by the discovery of many other written codes of the period: the code of Hammurabi (ca. 1700 B.C.), the Lipit-Ishtar code (ca. 1860), and the Laws of Eshnunna (ca. 1950 B.C.).

Critics used to say that the biblical description of the Hittite Empire was wrong because the Hittite Empire (they though) didn't even exist! Then archaeologists discovered the Hittite capital in 1906 and discovered that the Hittite's were actually a very vast and prominent civilization. Archaeological and linguistic evidence is increasingly pointing to a sixth-century B.C. date for the book of Daniel, in spite of the many critics who attempt to late-date Daniel and make it a prophecy after the detailed events it predicts.

For the New Testament, Dr. G.R. Habermas points out that within 110 years of Christ's crucifixion, approximately eighteen non-Christian sources mention more than "one hundred facts, beliefs, and teachings from the life of Christ and early Christendom. These items, I might add, mention almost every major detail of Jesus' life, including miracles, the Resurrection, and His claims to deity." [4] Sir William Ramsey, one of the greatest archeologists to ever live, demonstrated that Luke made no mistakes in references to 32 countries, 54 cities, and 9 islands.

Liberal scholars used to argue that a town named Nazareth didn't exist at the time of Jesus, until archaeology of the last few decades confirmed its existence. The Gospel's portrayals of the temple, Pilate's court, Jesus' crown of thorns, and the mode of His execution have all also been confirmed. The list could go on and on.

The historical evidence clearly shows that the Bible is a reliable historical document. Since the Bible can be trusted in areas that we can check (its history), then this gives us a reason to trust it in areas that we cannot check (its claims for inspiration).

The Uniqueness of the Bible
The internal evidence test reveals the Bible's amazing consistency. The Bible was written by over 40 authors, in 3 languages, on 3 continents, over a span of 1,500 years, and covers hundreds of controversial subjects. Yet, the authors all spoke with agreement; there are no contradictions. [5] From Genesis to Revelation, there is one unfolding story--God's redemption of mankind.

Bible Prophecy
The external and internal evidence tests do not prove the Bible's inspiration, but do reveal that the objective evidence is consistent with and supports the Bible's claims to be a divine book (because any book from God that claims to be inerrant should be reliable and consistent with itself). Bible prophecy, however, can only be explained by divine revelation and inspiration.

There are hundreds of specific prophecies in the Bible which have been literally fulfilled, in many cases centuries after the completion of the Bible. Any attempt to late-date these prophecies is impossible--there is a copy of every Old Testament book but one from before 150 BC, and hundreds of these prophecies were not fulfilled until centuries later. For a detailed discussion of this area, see Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell.

Some prophecies fulfilled by Jesus are Micah 5:2, which revealed where He would be born; Isaiah 53 detailed His suffering, work at the cross, and resurrection; Psalm 22 is striking prophecy of the crucifixion.

Norman Geisler explains Ezekiel's prediction that the city of Tyre "would be destroyed and its ruins cast into the sea (26:2). This provoked scoffing because, when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Tyre, he left the ruins right where they fell--on the land. But 200 years later, Alexander the Great attacked Tyre and the inhabitants withdrew to an island just off the coast for safety. In order to reach them, Alexander threw all of the debris, stones, timbers, dust, and everything else, into the sea to build a causeway that would reach the island." [6] If events so far in the future can be accurately predicted, certainly the events of the past have been accurately recorded!

Has the text of the Bible Been Altered Over the Centuries?
One last test investigates whether or not the Bible has been corrupted down through the ages in its transmission. If it has been significantly changed, then it would not be relevant to us since inspiration does not extend to any manuscript copy. How can we know whether or not the Bible we have today is the same as what was written?

This question is answered by the bibliographical test. This test looks at the number of existing manuscript copies there are, their agreement with each other concerning the text that they are copies of, and the time interval between these copies and the date of the original writing. All scholars agree that this test has conclusively established that the biblical text which we have now is nearly identical to what was originally recorded (for both Old and New Testaments).

Sir Frederick Kenyon, who was second to none in issuing statements about manuscripts, said this about the New Testament: "The interval between the dates of original composition and the earliest existing evidence [i.e. the earliest copies we have] become so small to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially has having been written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and general integrity of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established." [7] He further said that "No fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith rests on a disputed reading."

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which date from 200 B.C. to A.D. 68, included a copy of every Old Testament book except for one. Comparison with the texts of a thousand years later shows little or no variation and change between them.

Conclusion
The historical evidence shows that the Bible can be trusted. The commonly held idea that the Bible is unreliable or "just a myth" is unfounded. The internal evidence reveals the uniqueness of the Bible, a uniqueness which would be difficult to explain if it was just a human book. These two tests give credibility to the Bible's internal claims to be the word of God. The testimony of predictive prophecy, however, takes us a step further and confirms the Bible's claims to be inspired by God. Finally, the Bible has not been changed through the ages. The evidence shows that there is good reason to believe in the Bible.



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"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 7:54 PM on September 17, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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The historical evidence clearly shows that the Bible is a reliable historical document. Since the Bible can be trusted in areas that we can check (its history), then this gives us a reason to trust it in areas that we cannot check (its claims for inspiration).

Ridiculous claim and factually incorrect!  I've already stated that there was no world wide flood, as the bible claims.  So we can no longer trust the bible's historic accuracy.  This invalidates your whole claim!  
And just because the bible mentions some historical events means it's supernatural claims are also true?!?!  Utter nonsense!  No, you are clearly using bias sources who reject anything that contradicts their claims, even real evidence, real facts.  
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:03 PM on September 17, 2007 | IP
creationest6

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again, if god wanted to flood the earth , he could.


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"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:44 PM on September 19, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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again, if god wanted to flood the earth , he could.

But he didn't, so that makes the bible historically inaccurate.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:06 PM on September 19, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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From here:
InaccurateBible

"Despite the fact that there is undeniably some accuracy in the Bible, scholars are now convinced that many inaccuracies can be found in it. Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy report that the Hebrews, numbering as many as 2.5 to 3 million, left Egypt, wandered in the Sinai wilderness for 40 years, and finally invaded and conquered the promised land. Most biblical scholars and archaeologists doubt the historical accuracy of this biblical story. The March/April issue of Archaeology magazine declared that neither the exodus nor the conquest of Canaan happened as recorded in the Bible. "Today's archaeologists are certainly not the first to challenge the Book of Joshua," said Neil Asher Silberman in the feature article. "Its historical reliability has been a matter of dispute for more than two centuries" ("Who Were the Israelites?" p. 22).

Bibliolaters love to preach that archaeology has provided amazing confirmation of biblical accuracy. In my written debate with Bill Jackson, he rashly asserted that "in 140 years of constant research in the lands of the Bible, archaeologists have yet to find a single fact in contradiction to what the Bible has said" (Jackson-Till Debate, p. 3), but this claim is a far cry from reality, as the edition of Archaeology cited above will verify. Speaking at an archaeological conference at the Royal Ontario Museum, Israeli archaeologist Eliezer Oren reported that "his efforts at more than 80 sites in the Sinai from 1972 to 1982 had not turned up any support for the historical accuracy of when the exodus was supposed to have occurred" (Barry Brown, "Israeli Archaeologist Reports No Evidence to Back Exodus Story," News Toronto Bureau, Feb. 27, 1988). Oren went on to tell of the discovery of papyrus notes that reported the sightings of two fugitive slaves. "They were spotted and the biblical account of 2.5 million people with 600,000 of military age weren't?" Oren asked. "This can't be explained unless you invoke miracles here, and I am a member of the department of archaeology and not of miracles."

Bible inerrantists have a field day whenever an archaeologist makes a discovery that seems to confirm something written in the Bible. In complete disregard of archaeological studies that discredit the biblical record (like those noted above), they leap immediately to the conclusion that the new discovery confirms the truth of everything in the Bible, when in reality the discovery proves only that there is some truth in the Bible. Classical scholars once believed that the Grecian epic of the Iliad was mythology, that no Trojan War had ever occurred, that the cities of Troy and Mycenae had never even existed. Then the German archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann, using the Iliad as his guide, discovered and later excavated the sites of both cities. When this was done, no classical scholars rushed forth to proclaim that the Iliad was completely inerrant in its original autograph or that it had been inspired by God. They were intelligent enough to realize that archaeology had proven only that there is some truth in the Iliad. Bible inerrantists, however, show no such restraint. They want to see confirmation of one biblical statement as proof that all biblical statements are true. In so doing, they show their complete lack of objectivity."
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 12:51 AM on September 20, 2007 | IP
creationest6

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the bible is accurate in its prophecies.
Here is one. In the book of daniel, daniel had a vision of a one horned goat fighting and defeating a 2 horned ram. God told him that the goat was Greece and its horn was its first great king who would conquor the ram, media and persia. and 220 years later Alexander the great did just that.


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"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:11 AM on September 20, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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The prophecies in the bible are vague and can mean virtually anything.  It's an old con game and proves nothing.  What passage in the bible are you talking about?  
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:16 PM on September 20, 2007 | IP
creationest6

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Daniel 8:1-8, 19-22


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"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:30 PM on September 20, 2007 | IP
    
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