PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Creationism vs Evolution Debates
     Just answer this...
       Humans from apes? How?

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 3 ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
E-mc2

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Evidence of God?  Well, where did what we see today come from?  All the way back I mean.  How did everything start?  Not the big bang, because where did it come from?  Who or what started the existance of time, space, matter and the scientific laws?  
 


Posts: 53 | Posted: 8:27 PM on February 8, 2004 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"Evidence of God?  Well, where did what we see today come from?  All the way back I mean.  How did everything start?  Not the big bang, because where did it come from?  Who or what started the existance of time, space, matter and the scientific laws?"

ONce again, you don't understand it so Goddidit!  I don't buy it.  Our lack of knowledge does not support divine creation!

From here:Quantum origins

"In the quantum world...the world that the universe inhabited when it was less than a second old...many things work very differently. One of these is that time itself did not mean quite the same thing as it does to us in the world-at-large today.
Although we have no complete theory of the relevant physics, there are many indications from the mathematics that yield sound experimental results. Because of the strange way in which quantum physics and its laws operate, time itself may have ceased to have much meaning near the Big Bang event. This means that there was no 'time' as we know this concept 'before' the Big Bang. That being the case, the question of what happened before the Big Bang is now a question without any possible physical answer. The evolution of the universe has always been a process of transformation from one state to the next as the universe has expanded. At some point in this process, looking back at the Big Bang, we enter a state so removed from any that we now know, that even the laws that govern it become totally obscure to science itself. In the quantum world, we see things 'appearing' out of nothing all the time. The universe may have done the same thing. What this means to us may never be fully understood in an intuitive way."

So according to quantum mechanics, it is within the realm of possiblity that the universe created itself.  Your demands about who or what created it are meaningless, the universe might not have needed anyone or anything to create it.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:30 AM on February 9, 2004 | IP
E-mc2

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Our lack of knowledge doesn't support anything, it proves that we simply don't know.  (Was that a brilliant statement?)  But still, it is impossible to know many things.
 


Posts: 53 | Posted: 2:30 PM on February 9, 2004 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

the only advice I can give to creationalist is to stop asking silly questions that your sunday school teacher mentioned to you and read a book besides the bible. Maybe then you will learn something. I can see many of you have no understanding of genetics or evoulution itself you just make repetitive statements that have no conclusion. You can choose to believe whatever garbage you want but just ask yourself one question, Why do I believe in a book written 2000 years ago and has been rewritten dozens of times and has absolutely no evidence at all to prove itself other than justsayin GODDIDIT. Grow up.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:33 PM on February 9, 2004 | IP
E-mc2

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Thank you for your personal attack on the character of millions of people.  When was the Bible rewritten anyway?  The Bible was copied, but not changed.  (Some people have changed it, like the Jehovah's witnesses)  Do you know that science books are revised  tons of times?
Do you relize that you believe in a theory that has changed more times than I can count?  (Such as the universe was first so many million years old, than 2 billion, than 5,10, now its 18-20...)  Maybe you should ask yourself what you believe, that we came from a rock.  And that the human brain, which is more complex than all the computers in the world combined a million times, came about by accidential and random events that came from no one knows where.  And you attack the belief that there is a being above and beyond all of science that intelligently designed the brain, which has more electrical connections that all the appliances in the world?  I'm sorry, maybe you could go collect some evidence for your theory, because thats all it is.  And as I posted in another thread, tha these scientists are all Creationists.

Nicholas Copernicus, Johannes Kepler,  Galileo Galilei, Rene Descartes, Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Michael Faraday, Gregor Mendel (Mendel's laws), Kelvin (William Thompson), Max Planck, Albert Einstein, Francis Bacon, Blaise Pascal, Nicolaus Steno, James Clerk Maxwell, Louis Pasteur, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, Wernher von Braun, Frank Borman, Jack Lousma, John Glenn, Charles Duke, James Irwin, Robert Jastrow, John Polkinghorne, Walter L. Bradley, Henry "Fritz" Schaefer...to name a few.
 


Posts: 53 | Posted: 4:05 PM on February 9, 2004 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"Do you relize that you believe in a theory that has changed more times than I can count?  (Such as the universe was first so many million years old, than 2 billion, than 5,10, now its 18-20...) "

And that's the power of the modern scientific method, it changes to reflect new data, new observations.  It's not locked into an unchanging dogma!  I think it's the height of folly to believe genesis, a myth written over 2000 years ago for and by primitive bronze age herdsman has more validity than all of moder science!

"Maybe you should ask yourself what you believe, that we came from a rock. "

Strawman arguement, where in science does it say we came from a rock?

"And that the human brain, which is more complex than all the computers in the world combined a million times, came about by accidential and random events that came from no one knows where."

Evolution is not accidental and is definitely not random, this is wrong.  you should really learn what the theory of evolution says before you try to argue against it!  And since we see all different levels of brain complexity, it's obvious it evolved.

"And you attack the belief that there is a being above and beyond all of science that intelligently designed the brain, which has more electrical connections that all the appliances in the world?"

All you have to do is show some evidence for this magic being, fairytales don't count!  And why do you go on about how complex the brain is?!  We see very simple brains which are only a grouping of a few nerve cells ranging right up to our own brains!  It's a progression!  Evolution is the best explaination for that progression!  How is God a better explaination??

"I'm sorry, maybe you could go collect some evidence for your theory, because thats all it is"

Yes, evolution is a scientific theory and as such it has all the evidence supporting it.  As stated before, a valid scientific theory is the highest you can get.  Evolutionary theory is so strong it is the only valid theory explaining the diversity of life on this planet.

"And as I posted in another thread, tha these scientists are all Creationists."

And as stated before, they were creationists because they didn't know any better...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 4:32 PM on February 9, 2004 | IP
E-mc2

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Strawman arguement, where in science does it say we came from a rock?


In your local science textbook.  "It rained on the rocks for millions of years and turned them into a bubbleing broth, where the first form of life must have emerged."....

Evolution is not accidental and is definitely not random, this is wrong.


So, is evolution accidential or intentional?

Evolutionary theory is so strong it is the only valid theory explaining the diversity of life on this planet.


You've said this before, but the diversity of life is also explainable by Creation, which was never falsified.

And as stated before, they were creationists because they didn't know any better...


Most of the scientists I mentioned knew all about the theory of evolution, some of them are still alive today.





 


Posts: 53 | Posted: 5:07 PM on February 9, 2004 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You've said this before, but the diversity of life is also explainable by Creation, which was never falsified.


Your version was, did you fail to read the statement of Reverend Sedgewick, or Nicolaus Steno?

Most of the scientists I mentioned knew all about the theory of evolution, some of them are still alive today.


And if they make statements disagreeing with your position will you still stand with them?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:57 PM on February 9, 2004 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"In your local science textbook.  "It rained on the rocks for millions of years and turned them into a bubbleing broth, where the first form of life must have emerged."...."

Gross mistatement!  It is hypothesized that the first life formed in the sea, yes there was chemicals present from erroded minerals, but complex chemicals were being pumped into this primordial sea by oceanic hydrothermal vents.  You have yet to give any evidence that life could NOT have formed, especially in light of current research that shows complex organic molecules can spontaneously form.

"So, is evolution accidential or intentional?"

Hey, it snowed here in New Jersey 2 weeks ago, was that accidental or intentional?  I said evolution is not random, show me how it is or admit your wrong...

"You've said this before, but the diversity of life is also explainable by Creation, which was never falsified."

Fundamental Creationism was already falsified over 200 years ago, it is a scientific theory that has been conclusively proven wrong.  
Creation, on the other hand, is not a scientific theory because it can't be falsified.  It explains everything the same way, God can do anything, so it explains nothing.  It is faith and has no place in science.

"Most of the scientists I mentioned knew all about the theory of evolution, some of them are still alive today."

And someone on another thread showed that this list is a lie, so the only honest thing for you to do is stop using it.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:30 PM on February 9, 2004 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

And as stated before, they were creationists because they didn't know any better...

Most of the scientists I mentioned knew all about the theory of evolution, some of them are still alive today.


Can you still call them creationists?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:41 AM on February 10, 2004 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I apologize for bieng logged on as "guest"  (I've tried to register 2 or more times with no success). But If you refuse to believe  that the world is more than 6 thousand years old,  that dinosaurs existed, and that man evolved not unlike every other creature on this planet then there is simply little hope of you ever being a rational person. If an old book told you that the weather was controled by a magical wizard underneath the earth you would probably consider it a silly story, but, if it was passed down to your family through many generations then it might become a believable fact. I'll only say this once, people who deny scientific law and try to rationalize their religion will never be successful. Why? Because religion is simply as scientific as a childhood fairy tale. With what evidence do you prove your religion? How do you know for sure that god really exist? The reality is that you can't give me any fact that could prove that a god exists other than a feeling you have or book that says so. I may be wrong but, from talking to many christians I believe that most of them just can't except that they might be all alone and that when they die there is nothing else. People have always feared their own mortality which tends to turn them to believe the nicest sollution to the world. Afterall, it's easy to accept the what sounds the best.
                                        Dave
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:35 PM on February 10, 2004 | IP
alliwantisalife

|      |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Jehovah's Witnesses never changed the bible.  I know I use to be one and i thought they had and i went and got a different bible and they were exactly the same.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 6:33 PM on February 10, 2004 | IP
alliwantisalife

|      |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

someone may have already said this and if they did i am sorry.  Before earth it was a swirl of gases then they formed meteors and collided and bonded forming the earth's core and then a layer was built over the core.  Then it was a gassy planet and then protozoic hererotrophs began producing oxygen.  Then it started to rain.  then plants grew. Then fish.  then land mammals.  Then dinosaurs.  Then people.  I think that is the order.
 


Posts: 61 | Posted: 6:45 PM on February 10, 2004 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Actually it wasn't quite that simple, and you have your order a little mixed up. Sea invertabrets were among the first multi-cell organisms, then you have the ancestors of fish, then reptilian like creatures began crawling the shores. Millions and Millions of years later you have the first of the larger reptiles (dinosaurs). Mammals were of the last to develop and obviously the most succesful some 10 to 20 million years after the last dinosaur( i'm not really sure). All mammals come from cold-blooded reptiles at one form or another. Actually if you think about it, rats which haven't changed much for millions of years, are sort of like hairy, warm blooded lizards.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:22 PM on February 11, 2004 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from E-mc2 at 9:35 PM on February 6, 2004 :
Through gradualism and isolation apes slowly evolved.


Really?  Can we see some evidence?
And you have dodged or ignored "Guest's" challenge of "Through gradualism and isolation apes slowly evolved."






Genetic and fossil evidence for the origin of modern humans. Science. 1988 Mar 11;239(4845):1263-8.  Stringer CB, Andrews P. Department of Palaeontology, British Museum (Natural History), London, England.

The context of human genetic evolution. Foley R. Human Evolutionary Biology Research Group, Department of Biological Anthropology, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, CB2 3DZ, UK. raf10@cam.ac.uk

Ovchinnikov, I. V., Gotherstrom, A., Romanova, G. P., Kharitonov, V. M., Liden, K., GoodwinW. Molecular analysis of Neanderthal DNA from the northern Caucasus. Nature 404, 490 (2000).

In this paper, Neanderthal DNA confirms they were distinct from modern humans.

If no transitional fossils exist, where did this transitional DNA come from?  

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:57 PM on February 11, 2004 | IP
gabbyhayes

|      |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

the first human baby grew up and mated with apes and produced at least a few offspring with human characteristics. But more likely, there was some stressor in the environment that was killing off dumb apes and gave some advantage to smarter apes. The apes were probably isolated, perhaps by a fire or flood, or geologic activity. This group of apes was isolated long enough for the genes to reliably reproduce themselves. If you saw the bones of early humans, you would have trouble determining that they were not apes. Brain case a little larger, pelvis a little narrower--not a huge difference from orangutans or chimps. But the apes went one way and the humans went another.
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 11:49 AM on May 28, 2007 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

|        |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Uh, no...


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 10:45 PM on May 28, 2007 | IP
whaleman

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

did u kno that whales are actually proof of creatiuon????

if you think about it, why didn't whales evolve lungs along with other fishes???

maybe the whales used to be land craetures, and when one of tehm decided that swimming was fun, they left teh land, and had mutant babies in teh water, adn the baby whales didn't have gills LOL!!!11


-------
"Whales are drinking all of our water and eating all of our sailors"- Charles Darwin, quoting Maddox
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 12:48 AM on August 1, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Answer this. How can a monkey "evolve" a mind, soul, spirit, imagination, sentience, etc. I can't.


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:31 AM on August 9, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I can prove he exists. I have seen wat he can do.


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:33 AM on August 9, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Heres proof against evolution. You know that Coelacanth fish that supposidly died out 65 million years ago but they found one like, 10 years ago? Evolutionests say that every thing else evolved over 65 million years, but this one didn't.


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:54 AM on August 9, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Heres proof against evolution. You know that Coelacanth fish that supposidly died out 65 million years ago but they found one like, 10 years ago? Evolutionests say that every thing else evolved over 65 million years, but this one didn't.

But the coelacanths found today are not the same species from 65 million years ago, they evolved!  Once again, you are proven wrong!
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 04:56 AM on August 10, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Oh come on! No 2 living creatures are the same. Also, how can a monkey "evolve" a mind, soul, spirit, imagination, sentience. it cant.


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:10 AM on August 10, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Oh come on! No 2 living creatures are the same.

What the hell is that suppose to mean?  Yes, no 2 living things are the same but members of species have to be similar enough to breed.
The coelacanths that lived 65 million years ago were a different species (hell, they were a different genus) than those found today.  Why did they change?  They evolved!

Also, how can a monkey "evolve" a mind, soul, spirit, imagination, sentience. it cant.

Well, I'll agree it can't evolve a soul or spirit because soul and spirit don't really exist.  But it most certainly can evolve a mind, imagination and sentience.  Show us your evidence that it can't, oh that's right, you don't have any.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:00 PM on August 10, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

show me proof that they can evolve sentience, show me proof that there is no soul and spirit.


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:03 PM on August 10, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

show me proof that they can evolve sentience

From here:
SentinentChimps
"Notably, Yerkes also made extensive observations of chimpanzees in the wild which added tremendously to the scientific understanding of chimpanzees and their behaviour. Yerkes studied chimpanzees until World War II, while Köhler concluded five years of study and published his famous Mentality of Apes in 1925 (which is coincidentally when Yerkes began his analyses), eventually concluding that "chimpanzees manifest intelligent behavior of the general kind familiar in human beings ... a type of behaviour which counts as specifically human" (1925).[4]"

From here:
ToolUserChimps
"Researchers documented 22 cases of chimps fashioning tools to jab at smaller primates sheltering in cavities of hollow branches or tree trunks. "

From here:
ChimpCommunicators
"These observations indicate that chimps are the most intelligent communicators in the animal world, even compared to other highly social species such as lions, wolves and monkeys. This level of communication comes from chimps' deep understanding of the social world around them, which means that each chimp must be able mentally to model the impact of its own actions on the group as well as being able to guess the intentions of others (McCrone 150)."

OK, I've shown chimps are sentinent, refute my claims, if you can and make sure you present your evidence.

show me proof that there is no soul and spirit.

No, no, no.  You claim that 'soul' and 'spirit' exist, the burden of proof is on you to support your claim.  It's not up to me to prove they DON'T exist, it's up to you to prove they do.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:48 AM on August 11, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Thats intelligence. not sentience. The Chimps learned what is smart to do. Lots of animals learn. all animals shelter from the rain. They are smart. They figured out how to use a tool. thats intelligence. not sentience. if they were sentient, then why do we have them in zoos?


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:40 AM on August 11, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Thats intelligence. not sentience. The Chimps learned what is smart to do. Lots of animals learn. all animals shelter from the rain. They are smart. They figured out how to use a tool. thats intelligence. not sentience. if they were sentient, then why do we have them in zoos?

But they have their own moral code, they are self aware, they have a complex communication system.  What do you mean whn you say sentience?  How do you define it?  Because the way science defines it, chimpanzees are sentient.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 5:35 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

then y do we cage the "sentient" chimps in zoos.


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 6:14 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
ProEvo

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"then y do we cage the "sentient" chimps in zoos."

So we can look at them at our pleasure. Why do we imprison sentient humans? Why was galileo locked up? Why do we kill each other when we can talk about the problems instead? With all our consciousness we still do horrible things to each other, why?
 


Posts: 49 | Posted: 7:18 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

because some guys are lunatics.


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 8:12 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
ProEvo

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"because some guys are lunatics"

I know, some of them think that the world is 8 thousand years old among other things. hehe sorry i could not resist

 


Posts: 49 | Posted: 8:25 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

it is not 8000 years old! It is 6000 years old!


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 8:27 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
ProEvo

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"it is not 8000 years old! It is 6000 years old!"

Thats even worse!!!!
 


Posts: 49 | Posted: 8:47 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

then y do we cage the "sentient" chimps in zoos.

Because we're a cruel species and we're not as intelligent as we think we are.  What does that have to do with whether chimps are sentient or not?  And are you ever going to give us a ldefinition of what sentience is?
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:52 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

wat did apes evolve from?


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 9:24 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

wat did apes evolve from?

Old world monkeys.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 9:55 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
ProEvo

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"wat did apes evolve from?"

If you knew the basics of evolution then you would know the answer to your own question. Evolution is pretty simple.
 


Posts: 49 | Posted: 10:00 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

wat did they evolve from though?


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:07 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
ProEvo

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quick google example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4014351.stm

Basically if you go back in time you will find a common ancestor. That does not mean that we went from apes to humans from in one jump. There were many intermediary steps in between.
 


Posts: 49 | Posted: 10:15 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

wat did they evolve from though?

I already told you!  Old world monkeys, about 25 million years ago.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 10:17 PM on August 11, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

how did the old world monkeys evolve sentience?


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 8:48 PM on August 16, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

how did the old world monkeys evolve sentience?

Their brains became more complex.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:36 PM on August 16, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

like thats possible!


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:10 AM on August 17, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

like thats possible!

Why isn't it possible?  Please show your evidence.  Because we directly observe the evidence that brains can and do increase in complexity.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 9:39 PM on August 17, 2007 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

|        |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You guys are getting ahead of yourselves. All primates, including old world monkeys, had/have sentience. Sentience is the ability to sense. Mere worms have the ability to sense. Even bacteria are sometimes sentient.

Sentience = "to feel"

Sapience = "to know"... self-consciousness

Sapiens ("to know'ers") developed sapience during their life times, not through genetic change. If you placed a human infant with a pack of wolves and allowed it to mature, the baby would doubtfully develop sapience; its mental capacity would barely defeat that of its carnivorous family members.

Sapience has been passed down generation to generation because humans can learn sapience from other humans. The first organisms to develop sapience, however, were probably not primates but dolphins. Dolphins identify one another by different names. They even have their own complex language.

The commonality between sapient primates and dolphins is that both animals developed their sapience the same way: through learning, the psychological process where brain patterns are changed to respond more accordingly to the environment. Sapience came out of sentience, in that sentience is simply the ability to receive information from the environment and respond to it, changing the environment, whereas sapience is the ability to receive from and respond to the environment, as well as make assumptions about the environment and respond before the information is received.

The reason sentient life forms like worms can't develop sapience is because their brains do not foster learning like primate and dolphin brains do. Ergo, what actually evolved was not sapience itself but the capacity for sapience. It's not very difficult to see how the capacity for sapience evolved, of course. Sapient life forms have an enormous advantage over lifeforms that are just sentient! They can process information so much faster and react to the environment before they even sense it!

___

Consider the following: A one-year-old child is hardly sapient at all. They are still in the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. That is, if they can't sense something, they will not believe it exists. If you take a toy away from a one-year-old child, it will literally believe the toy has physically vanished because it cannot sense it.

However, as children grow, their cognitive abilities improve. A ten-year-old child will have developed the ability to know certain objects exist even when it is impossible to sense them. Deductive reasoning leads the ten-year-old to believe that because during previous times the object has never disappeared even while impossible to sense, it must not have disappeared now.

Obviously, if the ten-year-old child and the one-year-old child were tasked with finding a missing toy, the one-year-old would be at a severe disadvantage because it doesn't even believe the missing toy exists! Meanwhile, the sapient ten-year-old would easily rationalize that even though he can't sense it, the toy exists, and therefore it can be found. The ten-year-old would immediately begin searching for the missing toy while the one-year-old just stayed put and gave up before the contest even started.



In other words:

The capacity for sapience evolved because sapience > sentience.






(Edited by EntwickelnCollin 8/18/2007 at 03:38 AM).


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 03:26 AM on August 18, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It is not possible for an animal to actually develop so much that it becomes self aware. To know that it is a creature.


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 10:46 PM on August 30, 2007 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

|        |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It is not possible for an animal to actually develop so much that it becomes self aware. To know that it is a creature.


Humans are animals; therefore you are wrong. Dolphins are animals; therefore you are wrong. Chimpanzees are animals; therefore you are wrong. Gorillas are animals; therefore you are wrong.


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:59 PM on August 30, 2007 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It is not possible for an animal to actually develop so much that it becomes self aware. To know that it is a creature.

Why not?  Support your statement or admit you're wrong...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 9:27 PM on August 31, 2007 | IP
creationest6

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i have a question. how long does it take for something 2 evolve?


-------
"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 09:30 AM on September 1, 2007 | IP
    
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 3 ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 3 ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.