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Demon38

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Here we see some of the historical inaccuracies of the bible, from here:
InaccurateBible

"Inaccurate Statements About History

The Bible's false statements about history also bolster the Humanist position. Historians and other scholars have exposed many of the Bible's claims as historically inaccurate.

History and the Old Testament

Historians have long known that the biblical story of a worldwide flood is a myth. For instance, Andrew White says nineteenth-century Egyptologists found that Egypt had a flourishing civilization long before Noah, and no flood had ever interrupted it.[51]

The book of Exodus claims to contain a historical record of the escape of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. But historians and archaeologists have been unable to verify any of the events described in the book. No known Egyptian records refer to the biblical Moses, the devastating plagues God supposedly inflicted on the country, the escape of the Hebrew slaves, or the drowning of the Egyptian army.[52] Further, White tells us the records contained on Egyptian monuments show that the pharaoh ruling at the time of the alleged escape of the Jews was certainly not overwhelmed in the Red Sea.[53]

The book of Esther purports to describe how a young Jewish girl named Esther was chosen by the Persian king Xerxes I to be queen after he had divorced Vashti. Although historians know a great deal about Xerxes I, there is no record that he had a Jewish queen named Esther or was married to Vashti.[54]

Additionally, the book of Esther describes the Persian empire as having 127 provinces, but historians maintain there was no such division of the empire.[55] Also contrary to the book of Esther, historians assure us Xerxes did not order Jews in his territories to attack his Persian subjects.[56]

The book of Daniel describes events that supposedly happened during the Babylonian captivity of the Jews. The fifth chapter states that Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian king, was succeeded on the throne by his son Belshazzar. But historians tell us Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar and was never king.[57]

The book of Daniel also says one "Darius the Mede" captured Babylon in the sixth century B.C.E. In contrast, historians know that Cyrus of Persia took Babylon.[58]

History and the New Testament

In the New Testament, the second chapter of Luke asserts that shortly before the birth of Jesus, the emperor Augustus ordered a census throughout the Roman world. Luke claims that every person had to travel to the town of his ancestors for the census to be taken. He identifies the census as the reason for Joseph and Mary traveling from Nazareth to Bethlehem, where Jesus is said to have been born.

In his book Gospel Fictions, Randall Helms says this type of census was never taken in the history of the Roman Empire. He points out it's ridiculous to think the practical Romans would require millions of people to travel enormous distances - to towns of long-deceased ancestors - merely to sign a tax form.[59] Likewise, in Asimov’s Guide to the Bible, Isaac Asimov affirms that the Romans would certainly arrange no such census.[60]

The third chapter of Luke contains a genealogy tracing Christ’s ancestry back only 76 generations to Adam. According to Genesis chapter 1, Adam was created along with the rest of the universe during the course of one week.

The Bible thus views the human race and the universe as having existed for a relatively short period, probably no more than several thousand years. In fact, for many centuries the orthodox Christian position - to doubt which was to risk damnation - was that the creation took place sometime between four and six thousand years before Christ’s birth.[61]

Historians and scientists give a much longer historical record. They say the universe is between 10 and 20 billion years old,[62] the earth’s age is approximately 4.6 billion years,[63] and humans evolved from ape-like ancestors during the last few million years.[64]

Matthew chapter 2 avers that shortly after the birth of Jesus, King Herod ordered the massacre of all male children two years of age or under in Bethlehem and its vicinity. In the book of Luke, which contains the only other New Testament story of Jesus’ birth, there is no mention of this horribly cruel order. It's also not recorded in any secular histories from the time – not even by writers who carefully described many far less wicked deeds of Herod.[65] The lack of corroboration means Matthew’s account was fabricated.

Matthew 27:45 alleges that while Jesus was on the cross, there fell over the whole land a darkness lasting from midday until three in the afternoon. Andrew White explains that although Romans such as Seneca and Pliny carefully described much less striking occurrences of the same sort in more remote regions, they failed to note any such darkness occurring even in Judea.[66]

Robert Ingersoll wondered why the first-century Jewish historian Josephus, "the best historian the Hebrews produced, said nothing about the life or death of Christ; nothing about the massacre of the infants by Herod; not one word about the wonderful star that visited the sky at the birth of Christ; nothing about the darkness that fell upon the world for several hours in the midst of day; and failed entirely to mention that hundreds of graves were opened, and that multitudes of Jews rose from the dead, and visited the Holy City?" Ingersoll also asked, "Is it not wonderful that no historian ever mentioned any of these prodigies?"[67]

Ingersoll’s questions are even more forceful when one considers that there still exist at least some of the works of more than 60 historians or chroniclers who lived in the period from 10 C.E. to 100 C.E.[68] Those writers were contemporaries of Jesus, if in fact he ever lived."


 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:30 AM on September 21, 2007 | IP
creationest6

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there where many jewish book, The Annals that had great information on this topic, however the Annals where lost in a great fire when jerusalem was destroyed.


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Posts: 451 | Posted: 09:18 AM on September 21, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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there where many jewish book, The Annals that had great information on this topic, however the Annals where lost in a great fire when jerusalem was destroyed.

What does this have to do with my post?  I pointed out specific events that the bible got wrong.  In the face of these historical inaccuracies, you are compelled to drop your claim that the bible is historically accurate!
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 12:51 AM on September 22, 2007 | IP
creationest6

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i am saying that the annals of the kings of judah had much proof/evidence that the bible is accurate historicly.


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"If God wanted us to be concerned for the plight of toads, he would have made them cute and fluffy."

-Dave Barry
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 2:14 PM on September 22, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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i am saying that the annals of the kings of judah had much proof/evidence that the bible is accurate historicly.

And I just posted a bunch of examples that prove that the bible isn't historically accurate.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 10:20 AM on September 24, 2007 | IP
Kidarias01

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Well I'm not sure of your exact quotes but you immediatly hold what historians say over what the book says which I think is a little unfair. Also a lot of the names are interpritations of more recent books. As for Egypt there are many possibilities such as maybe it was Noah decendents writing about preflood life. Ok now for the Pleages if you are in a boxing match with Rocky and no one watches, shortly after which Rocky leaves are you really going to tell everyone that you lost to Rocky? Now what if Rocky is an ant?
 


Posts: 10 | Posted: 3:36 PM on December 16, 2007 | IP
The_Wizard

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I will give you the fact that if Egypt lost, they would most likely spin or omit the facts. However, at the time, just like now, there would be witnesses from other countries in Egypt that would have told of the plagues and the feeing of the Hebrews. No one else speaks of it. You would think that the enemies of Egypt would have exploited this loss.


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Posts: 40 | Posted: 7:24 PM on December 16, 2007 | IP
orion

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Here's an interesting passage from the bible.  Maybe some creationist can explain this to us.

In the Book of Joshua, chapter 10, verses 12 and 13, it states:

10:12: Then spoke Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel and he said in the sight of Israel "Sun, stand thou still at Gibcon and thou Moon in the valley of Ai'jalon."

10:13: And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.
[b]

From the text, one would gather that the sun revolves around the Earth.  This seemed a perfectly reasonable assumption back in those days.  Indeed, if I didn't know better, I would say the same thing.

But we know today that it is the other way around, it is the earth that actually revolves around the sun.

In order to make the sun stand still in the sky then, the earth would have to be made to stop rotating on its axis.  

I believe this would cause a lot of problems for people on the earth, don't you?
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 10:33 AM on December 19, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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Well I'm not sure of your exact quotes but you immediatly hold what historians say over what the book says which I think is a little unfair.

Why is it unfair?  Historians have evidence to back up their claims, the bible, in the cases I've sited, does not.  

As for Egypt there are many possibilities such as maybe it was Noah decendents writing about preflood life.

But when did the flood occur?  Written Egyptian records go back over 5000 years, there is no interruption of these records.  Therefore, no world wide flood in the last 5000 years.  Then we have the archaeological evidence of a primitive civilization in Egypt going back another 5000 years.  So we see that going back 10,000 years, there was no world wide fllood, and that's just looking at the evidence that Egypt provides us!
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:23 AM on December 21, 2007 | IP
TheCman66

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The bible actually said specificly that Cyrus was going to let the Jews rebuild Jeruselem


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Posts: 44 | Posted: 6:52 PM on February 7, 2008 | IP
orion

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Are you saying that everything in the Bible is literally true?
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 12:42 PM on February 8, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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No. I am just stating that It is stated in the Bible that Cyrus will free the Jews to rebuild their temple.


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Ralph, The Simpson's.
 


Posts: 44 | Posted: 5:08 PM on February 8, 2008 | IP
Wolflord

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ok here I am to provide historical aaand scientifical accuracies of the bible!

this site for one on historical accuracies


To be divinely inspired, a book must be historically accurate.  For if its credibility cannot be established on the basis of known events, it certainly cannot be relied upon as an adequate guide in matters beyond our ability to check.  On the other hand, if we can demonstrate that such a book is correct in historical matters, to an extent unknown among human writings, then we have strong evidence that the authors were inspired by God.  In this lesson we shall learn that this is true of the Bible.

Down through the centuries, enemies of the Bible have attacked its historical accuracy.  Time after time, the Scriptures have been thus questioned, only later to be shown correct by archaeology.  Archaeology is a study of relics, monu ments, tombs, artifacts, etc., of ancient civilizations.  Peoples and events, known before only in Biblical accounts, have been brought to light by the excavations of ancient cities. Always, the Bible has been proven right.  Let us consider a few of the cases of such findings:

Grapes In Egypt:

Egyptian Drawing showing wine making in EgyptIn Genesis 40 we are told how Joseph interpreted the dream of Pharaoh's butler.  In this dream grapes are mentioned.  But the ancient historian, Herodotus, states that the Egyptians grew no grapes and drank no wine, and many therefore questioned the accuracy of the biblical account.  However, paintings discovered on the ancient Egyptian tombs, show the dressing, pruning, and cultivating of the vines, and also the process of extracting the juice of grapes, as well as scenes of drunkenness.  There can be little doubt
then that Herodotus was wrong and the Bible right.

The Bricks Of Pithom:

In Exodus 1:11, we are told that the children of Israel built the treasure cities of Pithom and Raamses for Pharaoh.  In Exodus 5, we are informed that they made bricks first using straw, and then using stubble, because no straw was furnished them for that purpose.  In 1883, Naville, and in l908, Kyle, found at Pithom, one of the cities built by Israel, that the lower courses were built of bricks filled with good, chopped straw.  The middle courses have less straw including stubble.  The upper courses were made of pure clay, with no straw whatever.  It is difficult to read the biblical account and not be astonished at the amazing confirmation which archaeology here has given to the Bible.

The Hittites:

Hittite ruinsForty-eight times in the Scriptures, a people called the Hittites are mentioned.  We find them blocking Israel's path as it sought to enter the promised land.  We read of Uriah, the Hittite, whom David sent to his untimely death. However, in all the records of antiquity, not a reference to those people was to be found, and therefore, the skeptics attributed them to the imagination and fiction.  In 1876, George Smith, began a study of monuments at a place called Djerabis in Asia Minor.  This city proved out to be old Carchemish, a capital of the ancient Hatti.  We now know that the Hatti were the Hittites of the Bible, who, according to Prof. A.H. Sayce, "contended on equal terms with both Egypt and Assyria."  The Hittites not only proved to be a real people, but their empire was shown to be one of the great ones of ancient times.

Sargon:

Bust of SargonIn Isaiah 20:1, we read, "In the year that Tartan came unto Ashdod, (when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him)..." This is the only mention of King Sargon in the Bible, and they only one in ancient literature.  His place in history was severely questioned on this account.  But in the years, 1842-1845, P.E. Botta, uncovered the tremendous royal palace of Sargon.  Among the other things discovered was an account of the siege of Ashdod mentioned in Isaiah.  Once more the Bible was right, the critics wrong.

The Flood:

Geneisis 7 and 8 tell us of the destruction of the world by a great flood.  To many, the story of the flood is actually a recording of ancient myths.  However, we have much evidence outside the Bible to show that the flood was a reality and that the Bible is true.  Notice the flood traditions of ancient peoples.  One scholar lists 88 different traditional accounts.  Almost all of these agree that there was a universal destruction of the human race and all living creatures by a flood.  Almost all agree that an ark or a boat was the means of escape.  Almost all are in accord in saying that a seed of mankind was left to perpetuate the race.  Many add that wickedness of man brought about the flood.  Some even mention Noe.  Several speak of the dove and the raven, and some discuss a sacrifice offered by those who were saved.  To anyone familiar with the biblical account, the similarity is astounding.  The universality of this tradition is such as to establish that the biblical flood was not a figment of someone's imagination.

In 1872, George Smith, discovered the now famous Babylonian flood tablets.  In these, a certain person was told to build an ark or ship and to take into it seed of all creatures. He was given the exact measurements and was instructed to use pitch in sealing it.  He took his family into the boat with food.  There was a terrible storm which lasted six days.  They landed on Mt. Nazir.  He sent out a dove.  It came back.  He sent out a swallow.  It came back.  He sent out a raven and it flew back and forth over the earth.  When these people were safely out of the boat, they offered sacrifice to the gods.  The account differs from the Bible in some particulars, but is so much in agreement with the Scriptures as to make one wonder how the historical nature of the flood could be questioned.

Furthermore, archaeology has found positive evidence of a great flood in some ancient cities.  At Susa, a solid deposit of earth five feet thick was found between two distinct civilizations.  The nature of the deposit establishes beyond doubt that Susa was completely destroyed by a flood which was not merely local.  At Ur, the ancient home of Abraham, a similar deposit of water laid clay eight feet thick was found.  This
deposit clearly shows that Ur was destroyed by a flood of such proportions that is must have been a vast flood such as the one of the Bible.  Further evidence could be presented, but this should be sufficient to demonstrate that the Biblical flood was a reality.

Jericho:

Josuha 6, tells how Israel conquered the walled city of Jericho.  For six day they marched once around the city.  On the seventh day they went aroung it seven times. The priests blew their trumpets, the people shouted, and when they did, "The wall fell down flat" (Josuha 6:20). The people then rused straitway into the city and burned it.  They took none of it to themselves.  They saved Rahab who lived
in a house upon the wall and who had helped them previously.

Starting in 1929, Dr. John Garstang, excavated the ruins of ancient Jericho.  His discoveries orresponded remarkably with the Biblical account.  Jericho, he found, had a double wall, with houses built across the two walls.  This explains how Rahab's house could have been built upon a wall.  He learned that the wall was destroyed by some kind of violent convulsion such as that described in the Bible, and that when the wall feel that it fell outward, down the hillside, or as the Bible says, it fell down flat.  Had the wall been destroyed by the battering rams of an enemy army, the walls would have fallen inward instead of outward. Furthermore, the city had been burned.  Once again, the spade of archaeology has established the accuracy of the Bible.

Sergius Paulus, The Proconsul:

Stone with Sergius Paulus chiseled into itIn Acts 13:7, mention is made of Sergius Paulus, the proconsul of Cyprus.  For a long time, skeptics contended that Luke should have called him propraetor instead of proconsul since this was the usual title. However, coins descovered on Cyprus, have positively estab lished that the governors of Cyprus  were proconsuls.  One such coin found at Soli on Cyprus bears the inscription, "Paulus the Proconsul", very possibly referring to the very man mentioned in Acts.

Confirmation By Non-Biblical Writers:

Some Biblical accounts have been substantiated by non-Biblical writers. For example: the Jewish historian Josephus has said many things concerning facts in the Bible.  For example: in Matthew 14:3,4, we are told that Herod put John the Baptist to death for the sake of Herodias, his brother  Philip's wife, because John had informed Herod that it wasn't lawful for him to have her as his wife.  Josephus tells us why it was unlawful.  Herodias had originally been married to Herod's brother, Philip. But she divorced Phlip and married Herod.  this unlawful marriage was the occasion of John's rebuke.  The account of Josephus and the Bible are in perfect accord.

Apparent Inconsistencies:

Apparent inconsistencies fade away whenever the Bible is studied with an open mind. An example is found in regard to the ruling family of Palestine In Matthew 2:1, we read of "Herod the King" who was reigning when Jesus was born. Matt. 2:19 records his death.  Yet in Acts 12:12, we read once more of "Herod the King" putting James to death.  How could he do this if he were already dead?  Does the Bible contradict itself?  Josephus, an unbeliever in Christ, explains the difficulty by showing that Herod of Acts 12, was actually the grandson of the Herod mentioned in Matthew 2. The Bible agrees perfectly with the facts.

Again, Luke 2:1, mentions "Caesar Augustus" as the ruling monarch of the Roman Empire.  In Luke 3:1, we are told that John the Baptist began his ministry in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar. This shows that Augustus was no longer on the throne.  Still later in Acts 25:21, we find Paul appealing his arrest to August.  A superficial reading might lead us to suppose that the Bible contradicts itself.  But on
close examination, with other known facts, we find that the emperor at that time was Nero, whose full name was Caesar Augustus Nero.  Luke, the author of both books in question, does not explain this because the first century readers were familiar with the fact that there were two different men named Augustus.

The attacks upon the credibility of the Bible have served to make stronger, not weaker, the conviction of every lover of the true Word of God.

scientific

  1.  The Shape of the Earth
        1. "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in" (Isaiah 40:22, NIV).
              1. This may or may not be construed to support the spherical shape of the earth.  The horizon is a circle and a circle is flat.
  2. The Earth is suspended in nothing
        1. "He spreads out the northern[skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing,"(Job. 26:7, NIV).
              1. This is particularly interesting, considering that the cosmology of other cultures at that time did not have the earth suspended in nothing, but rather upon pillars, or people, or animals.
  3. The Stars are Innumerable
        1. "He took him outside and said, 'Look up at the heavens and count the stars -- if indeed you can count them.' Then he said to him, 'So shall your offspring be'" (Gen. 15:5, NIV).
  4. The Existence of Valleys in the Seas
        1. "The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils" (2 Sam. 22:16, NIV).
  5. The Existence of Springs and Fountains in the Seas
        1. "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month -- on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened" (Genesis 7:11, NIV). See also Gen. 8:2; Prov. 8:28.
  6. The Existence of Water Paths (Ocean Currents) in the Seas
        1. "O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!...When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,...You made him [man] ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet...the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas" (Psalm 8:1,3,6,8, NIV).
  7. The Hydrologic Cycle
        1. "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight" (Job. 26:8, NIV).
        2. "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind" (Job. 36:27-28, NIV)
        3. "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again" (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, NIV).
  8. The Concept of Entropy
        1. "In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded" (Psalm 102:22-26, NIV).
  9. The Nature of Health, Sanitation, and Sickness
        1. The listing for this section is too large for this page. But the scriptural references are Leviticus 12-14.


 


Posts: 27 | Posted: 7:15 PM on February 14, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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NO world wide flood, the Bible is disproven as a historically accurate book.  End of argument.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 3:49 PM on February 15, 2008 | IP
Wolflord

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Ooh someone is getting touchy eh.

You completely disregarded my post on the flood, as in ignored it.
 


Posts: 27 | Posted: 5:33 PM on February 15, 2008 | IP
Wolflord

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Geneisis 7 and 8 tell us of the destruction of the world by a great flood.  To many, the story of the flood is actually a recording of ancient myths.  However, we have much evidence outside the Bible to show that the flood was a reality and that the Bible is true.  Notice the flood traditions of ancient peoples.  One scholar lists 88 different traditional accounts.  Almost all of these agree that there was a universal destruction of the human race and all living creatures by a flood.  Almost all agree that an ark or a boat was the means of escape.  Almost all are in accord in saying that a seed of mankind was left to perpetuate the race.  Many add that wickedness of man brought about the flood.  Some even mention Noe.  Several speak of the dove and the raven, and some discuss a sacrifice offered by those who were saved.  To anyone familiar with the biblical account, the similarity is astounding.  The universality of this tradition is such as to establish that the biblical flood was not a figment of someone's imagination.

In 1872, George Smith, discovered the now famous Babylonian flood tablets.  In these, a certain person was told to build an ark or ship and to take into it seed of all creatures. He was given the exact measurements and was instructed to use pitch in sealing it.  He took his family into the boat with food.  There was a terrible storm which lasted six days.  They landed on Mt. Nazir.  He sent out a dove.  It came back.  He sent out a swallow.  It came back.  He sent out a raven and it flew back and forth over the earth.  When these people were safely out of the boat, they offered sacrifice to the gods.  The account differs from the Bible in some particulars, but is so much in agreement with the Scriptures as to make one wonder how the historical nature of the flood could be questioned.

Furthermore, archaeology has found positive evidence of a great flood in some ancient cities.  At Susa, a solid deposit of earth five feet thick was found between two distinct civilizations.  The nature of the deposit establishes beyond doubt that Susa was completely destroyed by a flood which was not merely local.  At Ur, the ancient home of Abraham, a similar deposit of water laid clay eight feet thick was found.  This
deposit clearly shows that Ur was destroyed by a flood of such proportions that is must have been a vast flood such as the one of the Bible.  Further evidence could be presented, but this should be sufficient to demonstrate that the Biblical flood was a reality.
 


Posts: 27 | Posted: 5:57 PM on February 15, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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Ooh someone is getting touchy eh.

Not at all, no world wide flood....not enough water to do it.  
Several civilizations existed before the time of the flood, during the flood and after the flood, therefore, the flood is not real.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:20 PM on February 15, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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Geneisis 7 and 8 tell us of the destruction of the world by a great flood.  To many, the story of the flood is actually a recording of ancient myths.

Yes, the biblical flood was ripped off from the ancient sumarians.

Notice the flood traditions of ancient peoples.  One scholar lists 88 different traditional accounts.  Almost all of these agree that there was a universal

Not all ancient civilizations had a flood legend, and please namethe scholar that lists these 88 different accounts.  And if 88 different traditional accounts exist, from 88 different civilizations, what does that tell you?  How could 88 different civilizations all have world wide flood accounts if only Noah survived????

Almost all of these agree that there was a universal destruction of the human race and all living creatures by a flood.

Actually most of them don't agree...
Only the ones that were copied  from the sumarian legend.

Oh sure, there are a great many flood legends, most primitive societies sprung up around great rivers.  How this supports a world wide flood escapes me.  The simple fact is a world wide flood is simply impossible, not enough water on the planet, no geological evidence to support it, impossible for an ark to have floated that long, impossible that an ark could have carried that many animals, impossible that 8 people could have cared for all those animals, impossible that 8 people could have repopulated the earth, impossible that those animals could have repolulated the earth.  In short the story of Noah, as told in the Bible is impossible and you haven't shown us any evidence to the contrary.


 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:29 PM on February 15, 2008 | IP
    
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