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I am at a loss. I have been raised in a Christian home and taught creationism while at the same time schooled publicly and taught evolutionism. I believe in God... I will always believe in God. But, I want to believe in evolution also.

Can anyone provide me with scientific (or not) proof regarding creationsim? Perhaps a website link? I have found a multitude of evolution sites, but none provinf creationism. I attempted to post on another forum, but was bashed by die-hard evolutionists.

Is it possible that the two theories could coincide or is that just wishful thinking?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:02 PM on October 22, 2003 | IP
Demon38

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That's too bad you're getting bashed by the evolutionists, you're never going to learn anything that way!  The problem is there really is no evidence that supports creationism and a lot that falsifies it.  Evolution is supported overwhelmingly by all the evidence!  
But, fear not, by accepting evolution you do not automatically deny God.  Roughly half the Christains in the U.S.A. believe God created through evolution.  Evolution merely tells us how life diversified and changed on the Earth, it makes no claims about what (or who) set it in motion!  So continue to believe in and worship God AND accept the theory of evolution at the same time!
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:38 PM on October 22, 2003 | IP
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Sorry Demon38 but I disagree, accepting evolution DOES mean that you are denying God. Evolution says that mankind and every other living creature came from a single common ancestor. God says that he formed man in His likeness, in His image. By saying God helped evolution along, you are calling God a liar. God says that everything in His book is trustworthy so how can God be a liar if he is trustworthy?

As for proof? What about the 1 planet and 6 moons that spin backwards? I don't know about you but I have never seen a dog give birth to a non-dog either. They have found fossils of sea animals on the top of mountains. The flood would explain this, how would evolution? Each year the earth's rotation is slowing down by seconds. If the earth is billions of years old, how could life have started with it going so fast? Every year the moon moves a little farther away from the earth. With the moon moving away from the earth at a calculated rate and speed, billions of years does not fall into this equation.

I hope those quick "food for thoughts" have made you think. As a Christian in the public school system, I understand where you are coming from but I do hope that you will find out the truth as I have. That evolution is a fraud, God still works miracles and reward those who earnestly seek him. God bless. "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11 www.drdino.com
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:31 AM on November 10, 2003 | IP
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I completly agree and it makes me sick that they teach evolution in schools. I have met so many people who believe in God but now they try to find ways to make it fit with evolution, just things like the Gap Theory. But it is simply not true, evolution has No facts or proofs and it is more of a religion like any other, just beliefs. But you need not believe these things because the Bible answers how everything came to be. If you look at things like fossils in sedimentry layers it goes along perfectly with the Bible. The Great Flood! If you go outside today with a glass and fill it about an inch high with dirt, then fill it with water and shake it up you can actually watch the layers form. They are not "millions of your." In fact I don't see how fossils could be formed with evoluion because if something dies it doesn't fossils but when it is covered in many layers of dirt in a very short time then it does. You don't have to make evolution work with the Bible and you shouldn't try to. The Bible is perfect how it is.
And that drdino.com site is a great site, in fact I am planning on getting Kent Hovind's seminar on DVD.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:55 PM on November 10, 2003 | IP
Demon38

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"Sorry Demon38 but I disagree, accepting evolution DOES mean that you are denying God."
You can disagree all you want, that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the world's Christians accept evolution.  Only in your narrow minded interpretation of the Bible does evolution deny God and you are in the lunatic fringe.

"God says that he formed man in His likeness, in His image."
Then you're saying God is a physical being and he (or she) looks exactly like us!  What a ridiculous view!  Don't you think that means he created our spitit in his image?

"By saying God helped evolution along, you are calling God a liar."
And yet, by denying the evidence of God's work
aren't you doing the same thing?  How can you take Genesis, a story written over 2000 years ago for primitive bronze age sheepherders, over modern scientific theories?
Either God's a liar for giving us Genesis and making ALL the evidence we've found to date contradict it or your interpretation is wrong.  I think your interpretation is wrong and so do 99.9 percent of the biologists and geaologists and astronomers and physicists of the world.

"As for proof? What about the 1 planet and 6 moons that spin backwards? I don't know about you but I have never seen a dog give birth to a non-dog either. They have found fossils of sea animals on the top of mountains. The flood would explain this, how would evolution? Each year the earth's rotation is slowing down by seconds. If the earth is billions of years old, how could life have started with it going so fast? Every year the moon moves a little farther away from the earth. With the moon moving away from the earth at a calculated rate and speed, billions of years does not fall into this equation."

All your arguements are laughably wrong!  
How do planets and moons spinning backwards prevent evolution?!  Please explain that to me!  A dog giving birth to a non dog, that's the example people who don't understand evolution always use, because that is not how evolution works.  
Fossils of sea creatures on mountains?  Evolution doesn't even try to explain it, but geology and plate tectonics certainly does, these mountain tops were at one time on the bottom a sea or ocean.  As tectonic plates slammed together, they were pushed up into mountains, no flood involved.
Yes the Earth's rotation is slowing down, but the rate is miniscule, so a billions of years old Earth is no problem.  Same for the moon.  So yes, the Earth is billions of years old (about 4.5 billion).  Stop using out of date, thouroughly discredited creationists arguements.
Sorry, but evolution is a fact, we still see it happening today, and the fossil record makes it abundantly clear that life has been evolving since it first formed.  
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 10:41 PM on November 13, 2003 | IP
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Where do you get your facts about the majority of Christians accepting evolution? I hvae a question for you that you have probably heard before: what is 2+2? 4. Well what if the majority of the world wanted it to be 5? It wouldn't change just because people want it to.

Actually yes I do believe that He created our spirits in His likeness.

You contridicted yourself. You asked how I could take ancient writings over modern scientific THEORIES. Yet later you say that evolution is a fact. Sorry, but fact means proven all the way. Evolution has not been proven all the way.

I still have no idea where you get your percentages from. 99.9 percent? No. The more in-depth you get into science, the more prominent scientists believe in a higher power and not in a fairy-tale.

Yes the dog giving birth to a non-dog is used a lot, because it is valid. Evolution depends on mutations in species. Yet mutations that survive are few and far between.

Discredited? Out-of-date? Creationism has been proved far more than evolution but no one wants to believe that there is a defined right and wrong. They don't want to be held accountable for their actions.

What about carbon-dating? They have done tests on animals that were looking them in the eye (meaning alive) when they did the experiments and found that with the dating techniques the live animals had been in fact dead for about 2000 years.

God bless everyone. Take care.

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:31 AM on November 15, 2003 | IP
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First off I don't see how anyone can use carbon-dating. When someone says to me "what about carbon-dating?" I say "what about it?" It has been incorrect numorous times (of course they never print stuuf that isn't correct to their theories), it is based on assumptions and it is only accurate up to about 40,000 years. 40,000 years doesn't help the evolutionists anyway since by there theories all the things to help proove it are millions of years old. Plus with all the incorrect outcomes you can't trust it for anything. Also like said above it has been used on living things such as mullesk shell with results in the 1,000's of years. Please people, stop bringing up carbon-dating as any sort of proof for evolution.

The thing with the planets spinning opposite each other is proof against the Bid Bang theory. The theory states that all the matter in the universe was once gathered together in a space about the size of a period. Then it was spinning and spun faster and faster until it exlpoded outwards, thus we have everything we see today. If something is spinning clockwise and then something on it flies off it will also spin clockwise so we couldn't have planets and moons spinning different ways(with the Big Bang theory).

Now what angers me the most made Demon38 is your strange belief that evolution is somehow proven by science or that it is science or that there is any proof what so ever about evolution. Evolution is not science and science doesn't proove any part of it. If you could please give me one thing that you think is proof for evolution. Science  says that a dog produces a dog where as evolution says dogs can produce non dogs. Face it, your theory is stupid and it can't be proven.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:29 PM on November 15, 2003 | IP
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The thing with the planets spinning opposite each other is proof against the Bid Bang theory.


Not to anyone who has had high-school level physics.

The theory states that all the matter in the universe was once gathered together in a space about the size of a period.


That would be the observable universe,  the extent beyond our event horizon is unknown.

Then it was spinning and spun faster and faster until it exlpoded outwards, thus we have everything we see today. If something is spinning clockwise and then something on it flies off it will also spin clockwise so we couldn't have planets and moons spinning different ways(with the Big Bang theory).


Four simple words, conservation of angular momentum  Nothing prohibits satellites or planets for that matter from orbiting backwards, so long as the overall angular momentum of the system is conserved.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:55 PM on November 15, 2003 | IP
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The thing with the planets spinning opposite each other is proof against the Bid Bang theory.


Not to anyone who has had high-school level physics.

The theory states that all the matter in the universe was once gathered together in a space about the size of a period.


That would be the observable universe,  the extent beyond our event horizon is unknown.

Then it was spinning and spun faster and faster until it exlpoded outwards, thus we have everything we see today. If something is spinning clockwise and then something on it flies off it will also spin clockwise so we couldn't have planets and moons spinning different ways(with the Big Bang theory).


Four simple words, conservation of angular momentum  Nothing prohibits satellites or planets for that matter from orbiting backwards, so long as the overall angular momentum of the system is conserved.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:56 PM on November 15, 2003 | IP
Demon38

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"Where do you get your facts about the majority of Christians accepting evolution? "

Let's see, the Catholic church accepts evolution and they are the biggest single denomination of Christianity.  Then there are numerous polls that support this position.  So I can say quite rightly that the majority of Christians accept evolution.

"You contridicted yourself. You asked how I could take ancient writings over modern scientific THEORIES. Yet later you say that evolution is a fact. Sorry, but fact means proven all the way. Evolution has not been proven all the way."

How did I contradict myself?  You seem to believe ancient myths written by primitive bronze age sheepherders over modern scientific theory backed up by all the evidence and the experts who stury it.  Your comments about scientific THEORIES shows that you don't understand the scientific method in general or the theory of evolution in particular.
In science a theory is the best you can get, there are no "laws" in science only theories that attempt to explain all related facts.  The theory of evolution does this and does it so well there are no other theories to explain the diversity of life on the planet.  Just like the atomic theory, the theory of gravity, the heliocentric theory, there is the theory of evolution.  Now, we observe evolution happening today, we see it in action, the fossil record leaves no doubts that evolution has been occurring since life first arose, so we can say that evoluion is a fact, it does happen.  The theory of evolution attempts to explain the mechanisms that drive evolution and while we understand most of these mechanisms, not all of them are explained to our complete satisfaction.  So yes, evolution is a fact and yes there still is the theory of evolution to explain it.

"I still have no idea where you get your percentages from. 99.9 percent? No. The more in-depth you get into science, the more prominent scientists believe in a higher power and not in a fairy-tale."

No your just making that up because you don't want to admit you're wrong.  I posted this on another message board but since it's relevent here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm

"According to Newsweek in 1987, "By one count there are some 700 scientists with respectable academic credentials (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists) who give credence to creation-science..." That would make the support for creation science among those branches of science who deal with the earth and its life forms at about 0.14%"

Ok, my remark on 99.9% of biologists was off the mark a smidge, I should have just rounded down and said 99.8% in the U.S. but answer me this, why do all the experts concur, why do the peoople who devote their lives to this all support evolution? I would guess that a big chunk of these scientists are christians,
are they being deluded, are they part of some massive conspiricy?"

So that is where I get my information from.  It is your worldview that is the fairytale, the scientific model of the origin of the universe and the evolution of life on Earth is supported by evidence, no real scientist agrees with your make believe stories based on real observations and evidence.

"Yes the dog giving birth to a non-dog is used a lot, because it is valid. Evolution depends on mutations in species. Yet mutations that survive are few and far between."

No it's not valid, you really don't know anything about the real theory of evolution  and you certainly don't know anything about mutations.  First off, single organisms do not evolve, populations evolve, so your example is still an inaccurate fantasy that has nothing to do with evolution.  Second, most mutations are neutral, it is the environment they are expressed in that determines if they are harmful or beneficial.  So many mutations survive, the average human has quite a number of neutral mutations in their genetic makeup.  So you are, once again, dead wrong.

"Discredited? Out-of-date? Creationism has been proved far more than evolution but no one wants to believe that there is a defined right and wrong. They don't want to be held accountable for their actions."

Creationism was disproved, falsified over 200 years ago, the earth was not created 6000 years ago, there was no world wide flood, organisms do evolve.  Plain and simple, creationism has been falsified so if you have no new startling evidence that falsifies the all the evidence and ovservations of modern astromony, biology, chemistry and physics, your nothing more than an uninformed zealot who refuses to accept reality.

"What about carbon-dating? They have done tests on animals that were looking them in the eye (meaning alive) when they did the experiments and found that with the dating techniques the live animals had been in fact dead for about 2000 years."

What about carbon dating?  It's only good back to about 50,000 years.  And it's a tool, a tool used improperly is going to give wrong results and creationists are famous for intentionaly using carbon dating on samples they know will give incorredt results, samples that should not have been dated using carbon dating.  You don't mention any of the other radiometric dating methods (about 44 different methods) that work extremely well.  These methods give us a very accurate date for the age of the Earth and when we use different methods on the same samples, they concurr.  It would be impossible for two different methods to both be wrong and still give the same dates.  Combine these with other dating methods that aren't based on radioactive decay and they still concurr.  No, we have very good dating methods and only a fool would claim the earth isn't billions of years old.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:25 AM on November 17, 2003 | IP
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So, the final answer is:  You CANNOT accept "evolution" and believe in the Only True God.


The Bible says: "All Scripture is inspired of God" (2 Timothy 3:16), and that means it is ALL true. God really did create us as a unique peoples after His own Image and likeness as stated in Genesis. Look at the existence of Israel, that in itself was fortold in the Bible in several places. But yet it didn't happen in its entirety until 1967, thousands of years AFTER God told us in the Bible that it would take place. That, my friend, is tangible proof of God's moving, unlike silly falsehoods which only lead men astay and are based on lies and things which are mysteriously "up in the air" like all speculation of its kind (specifically evolution).


ANY questions?      bensaved2001@hotmail.com
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:09 AM on November 18, 2003 | IP
Demon38

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No, since the largest CHRISTIAN  denomination does accept evolution, you're wrong, again...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 1:43 PM on November 18, 2003 | IP
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 That is what the Bible is "inspired by God" for, so that we can KNOW who is walking according to the Commandments of Jesus Christ, and who is not. (see 2 John)  If they do not line up with the word of God, they are to be showed the truth in Love, from the Scriptures (no citations, no correction), and calmly reminded that they as Christians are supposed to believe the Bible as the absolute authority on doctrine. Then, if they do not concur, they are to be reprimanded agian with further urging of them to adhere to the accuracy and precision of the direction of the Holy Spirit. Then, if they still rebel, "A man that is a heretick reject after the first and second warning." (Titus 3:10).

    So it doesn't matter what some men say in regards to God's revelation, unless what they say is insired by God Himself (In which case it will line up with what God has already said, for God cannot lie).

          bensaved2001@hotmail.com
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:54 PM on November 18, 2003 | IP
Demon38

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So now your the "official" interpreter of God's word and get to determine who is and isn't a christian...your moving up in the world...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 2:12 PM on November 18, 2003 | IP
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Actually, int he Authorized KJV it reads:

3:16  All scripture given by inspiration of God, and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

It says nothing about it being useful as a science text.   By using it for more than doctrine and instruction in righteousness, you are extending the meaning beyond what the text supports.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:14 PM on November 18, 2003 | IP
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Actually it is, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness[i]"  

   Science is the study of what God created in Genesis. And since we know that God "cannot lie" (Numbers 23:19;  Titus 1:2), the Scripture that is inspired by God is completely accurate and true. This is the same God, mind you, that completely interupted my life without even using a person or church, but did this things even His very self. And I, sfter one powerful confrontation, was no longer a rivaling, violent, evil, pervert. You want tangeble,I was smoking about a quarter ounce of weed regularly, drinking (many times to the point of being blacked out, probobly over a hundred; mixed almost always with other drugs during the night) nightly, would commonly snort various speeders on a regular basis (cocaine, oxy contin, etc), I was having intercourse often, partied frequently, Was well known in my area for gangster rap through frequent free-styles at parties, and every other evil thing many of which I wont write. But when God came into my life through Divine revelation (although I always believed in Him), everything, I mean everything changed that very moment. All my desires completely changed, and through what He did for me on that Cross almost two thousand carnal years ago. There are hundreds of witnesses that I could gather in only a little while's time. I do now know why I was created and through what I must live more than ever before. It has been two years, and will be a change that changed my life and destiny forever. This is the very thing Jesus came and died for, and it is so much more tangeble than rediculous fables that can only be imagined with no real thing to convince the logical, thinking, mind. But in Christ Jesus their is so much more, regardless of how many heretics are on the television stations, the Power is evident in the light of the Truth.


              Benjamin
 questions, comments?
            contact me if you want
                            bensaved2001@hotmail.com
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:11 AM on November 19, 2003 | IP
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Science is the study of what God created in Genesis.


Indeed it is,  God reveals himself in his creation as well as in the Bible.  By ignoring what it tells us you are doing yourself and your faith no favor.

God Reveals Himself

"There is much about the world we live in which we do not and cannot understand. The writer does not attempt, or want, to explain creation . . . He is not concerned with the question 'How did God do it?' He would not, I think, have been terribly interested in our debates about the time-scale of evolution, or the physics of the First Three Minutes. Those are not the questions he is asking. And when we ourselves bring such questions to the text, we are disappointed . . . He is concerned with something else. He is safeguarding and proclaiming something of the unsearchable mystery of God. We mistake the purpose of this chapter if we expect to answer all the questions we, with the benefit of modern science, want to ask about creation."
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:48 PM on November 19, 2003 | IP
E-man217

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I just wasted a minute and a-half of my life reading that peice of trash.Ok great you found emotional support through god.How does this help in anyway to prove your point?

The bible is possibly the most corrupt document on the face of the earth!It has been manipulated,cut-up,re-done over, incorrectly translated, and been used to support voilence so many times that i dont consider a single word of the bible true, First ,during translation to english, many of the words were mistranslated,much of the bible was open to error and manipulation.Secondly, not only has it been open to error do to hand coping, but entire passages were deleated, while other passages were added by authors unknown.Also there is no one version of the modern bible, because nobdy can agree on what the bible means.On top of that do you have any idea how many people have died for no reason over a silly little book?Millions upon millions dead, just because others dont belive as they do.


-------
Am I mearly the dream of a five year old version of me?And of the five year old, a dream of a hippo?<br>Reality is how you percieve it!
 


Posts: 13 | Posted: 5:38 PM on December 17, 2003 | IP
    
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