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orion

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OK - Creationists like to raise specious claims against evolution.  here's your chance to explain why do you believe in Creationism?  And if you believe in Creationism, do you believe in a literal interpetation of the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc?  Are you a YEC?  ID'er?  Other?  Why, and what proof do you have?  If it's just faith, that's OK - I can accept that.
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 12:43 AM on October 15, 2007 | IP
SilverStar

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Just in the Bible.


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 10:14 PM on October 15, 2007 | IP
Kidarias01

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Silver we agree on many issues it would seem though you might need to make you posts a little longer you leave and they rip appart your discrepencies. Anyway I believe in Creation because  Evolution Isn't right (I have many posts explaining this) and all of that 'we're a science experiment, it's just a game ect stuff doesn't give me a reason to worry. Of course, now that I think about it so does evolution. 6day's the only way
 


Posts: 10 | Posted: 2:57 PM on December 16, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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Anyway I believe in Creation because  Evolution Isn't right (I have many posts explaining this)

How can you have many posts explaining how evolution isn't right when you don't understand evolution, you don't understand science and you made SO MANY mistakes?!?
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 02:09 AM on December 21, 2007 | IP
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I'm new in this forum but I would like to reply. I am a Creationist who really love "balanced" science. One of the reason why I believe in CreaTheory is that all of the "origins" are being explained without any contradiction in this theory. The origin of both universe, life, species, and sin are explained well. Whereas in Evolution Theory, it is trying to explain the origin of species, but it is always lacking logic.
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 10:07 AM on January 5, 2008 | IP
orion

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How is it that the theory of Evolution lacks logic?  On the contrary, Evolution is built upon a mountain of logic, and evidence.  

When Darwin proposed his theory in 1859, there were many gaps in our scientific knowledge at the time that needed answers.  For instance, Darwin didn't know what agent allowed species to change over time, but his proposed mechanism of Natural Selection and idea of Common Descent fitted the facts that he collected on his 5-year voyage on the Beagle.  He didn't know about genetics and DNA.  But when these discoveries were made later on, they meshed very nicely with Darwin's theory.

At the time Darwin proposed his theory of Evolution, there was a problem also of time.  It was thought at that time that the sun could not be more than a few million years old.  That contradicted geological evidence that the earth was much older.  Then at the turn of the century, discoveries in nuclear physics established the true nature of the source of solar power and the age of the solar system was pushed back billions of years.  

The evidence of the fossil record speaks for itself.  Evolution does occur.  The Bible has nothing to say about these things (age of the earth, earlier life forms, structure of the solar system, etc)  because the writers didn't know any of these facts that we know today.  Genesis is one of many Origin myths that almost any culture has.  Attempts by pre-scientific people to explain where they, and the world, came from.  They have no scientific basis.

Today, the mapping of DNA of different species is still more evidence backing the theory of evolution.  Darwin's idea of Common Descent (of common ancestory among species) is being solidly proven in the area as well.  

Contrary to what you say, it is actually the Genesis myth that lacks logic and evidence.  

 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 2:40 PM on January 5, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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I am a Creationist who really love "balanced" science.

What is "balanced" science and how is it different from real science?

One of the reason why I believe in CreaTheory is that all of the "origins" are being explained without any contradiction in this theory.

Except creationism was proven to be wrong over 200 years ago, and proven to be wrong conclusively.  Why do you believe in a theory that was proven wrong?

The origin of both universe, life, species, and sin are explained well.

Well explained?!?!  You're kidding us , right?  Creationism is a primitive myth that was proven wrong a long time ago.  It explains nothing and adds nothing to our working knowledge.

Whereas in Evolution Theory, it is trying to explain the origin of species, but it is always lacking logic.

No, wrong again.  The theory of evolution is entirely logical and is the best, the only, explaination for the diversity of life on this planet.  It appears you don't understand the TOE.  Why don't you present some the illogical aspects of the theory of evolution so we can show you where you're wrong...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:14 PM on January 5, 2008 | IP
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Quote from orion at 2:40 PM on January 5, 2008 :

The evidence of the fossil record speaks for itself.  Evolution does occur.  The Bible has nothing to say about these things (age of the earth, earlier life forms, structure of the solar system, etc)  because the writers didn't know any of these facts that we know today.  Genesis is one of many Origin myths that almost any culture has.  Attempts by pre-scientific people to explain where they, and the world, came from.  They have no scientific basis.



Thank you for the answer. You are correct to say that Creation Theory (CT)  that was based on the Geneisis account of the Bible is considered as beyond science. But Creationist did not, can not, will not deny that fact. Whereas Evolution Theory (ET) is the same, but worst than CT.

You are talking about fossils. Did all the fossils "literally directly" said to the ET scientists that they were the products of ET process? Or that the "explanation and conclusion" from that fossils where mythologically and supernaturally formed and concluded by those ET scientists and proponents! And they called it "naturalistic" view of science! So what those ET said? "Oh, ET had done this according to these fossils. And the fellow ET scientists will say, Amen to that brother! You have the blessings from Darwin!" It is a weird, right!

When did the fossils literally speak? When did those ET heard those fossils speak the truth that they were the products of ET?


Quote from orion at 2:40 PM on January 5, 2008 :
Today, the mapping of DNA of different species is still more evidence backing the theory of evolution.  Darwin's idea of Common Descent (of common ancestory among species) is being solidly proven in the area as well.  

Contrary to what you say, it is actually the Genesis myth that lacks logic and evidence.  



The mapping of DNA did not say that human had evolved from chimps or lower forms. It was only the product of the weird imagination of ET scientists. And common descent accdg to Darwin is not "naturalistic" scientific view but supernaturalistic view.

You are very confused about real science.


 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 12:43 AM on January 6, 2008 | IP
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Quote from Demon38 at 8:14 PM on January 5, 2008 :

What is "balanced" science and how is it different from real science?


Thank you for the answer. Balanced science is real science. That means even the opponents of that theory and proponets will surely agree and come to different conclusion.

For example, the theory of evolution and the theory of gravity. Both the CT and ET camps agree that the theory of gravity is literally possible and the conclusion is perfectly fit to all scientists.

But ET is different. ET is wierd if strict real science wil be used.

 
Quote from Demon38 at 8:14 PM on January 5, 2008 :
[
No, wrong again.  The theory of evolution is entirely logical and is the best, the only, explaination for the diversity of life on this planet.  It appears you don't understand the TOE.  Why don't you present some the illogical aspects of the theory of evolution so we can show you where you're wrong...


You need to separate the diversity of life and species to the origin of species. Darwin's goal was to tell the world that the origin of species was come from ET.

What Darwin had seen was not EVOLUTION but INTERRELATION.



 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 12:51 AM on January 6, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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Both the CT and ET camps agree that the theory of gravity is literally possible and the conclusion is perfectly fit to all
scientists.


The theory of evolution says nothing about gravity.  And the theory of gravity is greatly debated, since we know far less about gravity than we do about evolution.  

But ET is different. ET is wierd if strict real science wil be used.

No it's not weird, its straight science, the scientific method is used to investigate it,  it is observed, it's evidence is catalogued, it is tested and experimented onover and over and over, other scientists haved tried to disprove it, no one has been able to do that.  Evolution is a fact, the theory of evolution explains it.  The theory of evolution is real science supported by virtually all the world's biologists.

You need to separate the diversity of life and species to the origin of species.

What does this mean?  The diversity of life is due to the origin of species, you can't seperate them.

What Darwin had seen was not EVOLUTION but INTERRELATION.

No, Darwin observed the effects of evolution.  Tell us how things are interrelated if they didn't evolve, becuase without evolution, they wouldn't be related...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:02 AM on January 6, 2008 | IP
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Quote from Demon38 at 01:02 AM on January 6, 2008 :

No it's not weird, its straight science, the scientific method is used to investigate it,  it is observed, it's evidence is catalogued, it is tested and experimented onover and over and over, other scientists haved tried to disprove it, no one has been able to do that.  Evolution is a fact, the theory of evolution explains it.  The theory of evolution is real science supported by virtually all the world's biologists.




Thank you for the answer.

All scientists can test, investigate, observe, and gather all the facts. BUT it is also the "human" scientist that will give the "final" conclusion based on their pre-assumption belief. That means, there is bias in ET. But ET scientist will never admit they are making such bias assumption.

When Darwin had seen some finches in Galapagos, he jumped to a conclusion to "EVOLUTION! EVOLUTION!" The same with Dawkins, Gould, and many ET scientists. But in reality, what they had been witnessing in nature was that ALL LIVING SPECIES and all living things are INTERRELATING to their respective surroundings, not evolving. And the process is the instinct interrelation process by every living things, just to live.

And the worst case was that ET scientists are being backed-up by ET scientists, a circular reasoning.  
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 08:12 AM on January 6, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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All scientists can test, investigate, observe, and gather all the facts.

Yes, this part of what scientists do...


BUT it is also the "human" scientist that will give the "final" conclusion based on their pre-assumption belief.

But in science all assumptions are attempted to be eliminated.  The scientific method is the most objective method we have to investigate the natural world.  And you forgot to mention that when scientists publish their theories, other scientists try their best to tear them apart.  If there where presumtions in the initial theory, the peer review process will falsify the theory and it will not be accepted.  200 years ago creationism was accepted as fact, but it could not stand in light of the evidence exposed by christian scientists.  So, creationism was falsified, proven beyond a doubt to be wrong.

That means, there is bias in ET.

You haven't been able to tell us what this bias is!  The motto of modern science is go where the evidence leads.  All the evidence leads to evolution.

When Darwin had seen some finches in Galapagos, he jumped to a conclusion to "EVOLUTION! EVOLUTION!"

No, he observed evolution in action.  Since then, his observations of the Galapagos finches have been confirmed, seperate species have evolved there.  

The same with Dawkins, Gould, and many ET scientists.

Utter nonsense!  Bet you can't back these claims up with evidence!

But in reality, what they had been witnessing in nature was that ALL LIVING SPECIES and all living things are INTERRELATING to their respective surroundings, not evolving.

Nonsense!  That doesn't even make sense!  All living species are interrelating to their respective surroundings?!?!  How?  What are the natural mechanisms that allow them to interrelate to their environment?  If you say natural selection and mutation, you've just described evolution!  It appears you have no understanding of evolution or biology.  You would do well to learn something about it before you try to debate it.  And, of course, nothing in evolution is circular reasoning, evolutionary biologists don't have to do that, the evidence is rock solid for the theory of evolution.  And don't forget we successfully use the theory of evolution in medicine, farming, animal raising and industry.  If evolution as false, we would never be able to use it so successfully.  
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:09 AM on January 7, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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Creation has been proven time and time again. God has been proven through the countless prophesies. Evolution has been dis-proven time and time again. The big bang might have happened by god. why would god just have every thing just simply, poof in being. The big bang could been exploseve show of God's power. If a Raptor evolved into a bird over millions of years, it would have a bird body and internal structures, but a Raptor mind. Explain to me how a raptor that evolved into a bird and knew how to be a bird. it would have a dinosaur mind.


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Posts: 44 | Posted: 09:45 AM on January 12, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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Creation has been proven time and time again.

Since creation can't be investigated by science, it is entirely a matter of faith.  CreationISM, on the other hand, made specific scientific claims and those claims were disproven long, long ago.  Creationism is a failed theory, it has been proven to be entirely wrong.

God has been proven through the countless prophesies.

Nope, just the old vague prophesy con game.  So God has NOT been proven.

Evolution has been dis-proven time and time again.

Nope, it hasn't.  That's why over 99.9% of the world's biologists accept the theory of evolution.  That's why evolution is an observed fact.  That's why the theory of evolution is so vital to our modern world.

The big bang might have happened by
god.


Why couldn't evolution happen by God?

why would god just have every thing just simply, poof in being.

Well, that's what YOU"RE claiming by denying evolution, so you tell us...

If a Raptor evolved into a bird over millions of years, it would have a bird body and internal structures, but a Raptor mind. Explain to me how a raptor that evolved into a bird and knew how to be a bird. it would have a dinosaur mind.

That's easy, birds ARE dinosaurs, don't you do any research?!?!?!
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 3:13 PM on January 12, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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God has gave people visions, explained what they represent, several hundred years before they happened. and they happened. I believe Creationest6 has proven this in a diffrent topic.


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"I can't Fail English! Thats Un-possible!"

Ralph, The Simpson's.
 


Posts: 44 | Posted: 5:54 PM on January 12, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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God has gave people visions, explained what they represent, several hundred years before they happened. and they happened. I believe Creationest6 has proven this in a diffrent topic

You believe wrong.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 02:08 AM on January 13, 2008 | IP
orion

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What proof for Creationism that has been proved time and time again do you have?  What proof that evolution has been disproved do you have?

Does your proof / disproof pass scientific scrutiny?  As far as I know, there is no acceptable scientific evidence that supports Creationism.  And there is enormous scientific evidence supporting evolution.  

As for the birds being decendants of dinosaurs, there is a growing fossil evidence that many dinosaurs had feathers, including Velociraptor.  The bone structure of dinosaurs also appear to be closer to that of birds than to reptiles - at least for the latter species of dinosaurs.  And it appears that dinosaurs were actually warm blooded (like birds) rather than cold blooded (like reptiles).

Raptor evolved into a bird over millions of years, it would have a bird body and internal structures, but a Raptor mind. Explain to me how a raptor that evolved into a bird and knew how to be a bird. it would have a dinosaur mind.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  Velociraptors probably had feathers, but are birds direct decendants of Velociraptors?  The fact that both dinosaurs and birds both have feathers is compelling evidence that the two classes of animals are linked in some way via evolution.  
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 5:55 PM on January 15, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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You believe wrong

Prove me wrong


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"I can't Fail English! Thats Un-possible!"

Ralph, The Simpson's.
 


Posts: 44 | Posted: 9:56 PM on January 19, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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You believe wrong
Prove me wrong


I'm losing track, what do you want us to prove you wrong about?  Creationest6 was never able to prove that the Bible was prophetic.  And to prove that, all you have to do is look at his posts.  So you are proven wrong there.
Now, if you're talking about something else, well, be specific and we'll do our best to prove you wrong.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 9:29 PM on January 20, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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In the book of Daniel, Daniel had a vision in which he saw a goat with a horn between it's eyes and a 2 horned ram. the goat fough and killed the ram and god said that the ram represented the medo-persian empire and their 2 kings (the two horns) And that the goat represented greece and it's great king who would defeat the medo-persians. And a couple centuries later, Alexander the great the king of greece defeated the medo-persians. Daniels vision
continued when he saw the horn of the goat unexpectedly break off. Alexander unexpectdedly died at age of 33. Than Daniel said that he saw four smaller horns grow on the head of the ram. After Alexander died, His empire was divided into 4 parts.

There you go. The bible has made a prophecy that came true.

(Edited by TheCman66 1/26/2008 at 4:37 PM).

(Edited by TheCman66 1/26/2008 at 4:38 PM).


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Ralph, The Simpson's.
 


Posts: 44 | Posted: 4:36 PM on January 26, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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There you go. The bible has made a prophecy that came true.

There ya go?!?!?!  Daniel had a vision of a monster goat fighting a ram!  There ya go!  It's only your interpretation, AFTER THE FACT that claims it represents Alexander the great defeating the persians!  Why didn't Daniel have a vision of a man named Alexander the Great defeating the persians????  Once again, it's the old propchecy game, true believers can twist the most ridiculous claims into proving their claims.  Sorry, you just proved my point, the bible makes no clear, unambiguous prophecies.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 5:21 PM on January 27, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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One night Daniel had a vision of a shaggy old bear with one side raised up on one side. It had 3 ribs between his teeth ( Daniel 7:5) The bear symbolized The great mountain kingdoms of Media and Persia and since the Persians where stronger then the Medes, their side was raised up. And the 3 ribs? they symbolized the three great nations that the Medo-Persians had conquered. Lydia, Babylon. and Egypt. Daniel could not have possibily known these events without an all-knowing god telling them.



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Ralph, The Simpson's.
 


Posts: 44 | Posted: 6:25 PM on January 27, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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The bear symbolized The great mountain kingdoms of Media and Persia and since the Persians where stronger then the Medes, their side was raised up.

How do we know this is what the bear symbolized?  

You keep avoiding the point, why didn't God come out and give specific prophecies that gave specific details, instead of symbolizing them?  Couldn't God give specific visions?  And since he didn't, why didn't he?  Once again, claiming that a bear or ribs symbolizes something or other is meaningless, it's totally open to interpretation and can not be called a fulfilled prophecy.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:13 PM on January 27, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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Actually, he did give a direct propecy.
In the book of Isiah, it says: "Behold, i'm am sending the Persians to destroy Babylon". In the prophecy it clearly states that baylon will be completely destroyed and not one stone will be left. about a century later, that's exactly what happened.


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Ralph, The Simpson's.
 


Posts: 44 | Posted: 8:34 PM on February 6, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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Actually, he did give a direct propecy.

Actually, he didn't.  According to the Deutero-Isaiah Theory, this wasn't really written by Isaiah but by another author after the fall of Babylon.  So it's not prophecy if it's written after  the fact, it's simple reporting of history that has already happened.  Once again, no evidence of a supernatural god.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 12:43 AM on February 7, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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Yes, due to the Theory. it is just a theory. just like evolution is a theory. no proof.


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"I can't Fail English! Thats Un-possible!"

Ralph, The Simpson's.
 


Posts: 44 | Posted: 6:42 PM on February 7, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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Yes, due to the Theory. it is just a theory. just like evolution is a theory. no proof.

But plenty of evidence to support it.  Looks like you don't know what a scientific theory is!  How can you debate ANYTHING if you don't understand what a theory is???  And a scientific theory trumps a primitive myth EVERY time.

(Edited by Demon38 2/11/2008 at 05:49 AM).
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 10:05 PM on February 10, 2008 | IP
TheCman66

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THen give me the 'evidence'.


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"I can't Fail English! Thats Un-possible!"

Ralph, The Simpson's.
 


Posts: 44 | Posted: 6:07 PM on February 13, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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THen give me the 'evidence'

Which evidence do you want, the evidence that Isaiah was written by more than one person or the evidence for evolution?  YOu do know that there is so much evidence suppoting the theory of evolution, in multiple scientific fields, that virtually no biologist doubts the validity of evolution?  
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 10:34 PM on February 13, 2008 | IP
orion

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Here is an excellent web-site explaining how the theory of evolution has stood up to test after test over the past 150 years since Darwin's wrote his book.  Rather lengthly, but it covers numerous areas.  Note - this article sites other scientific references and literature.  You can spend days and days plowing through it, and it only scratches the surface of everything available out there.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 11:31 PM on February 13, 2008 | IP
andrew2k54

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So can I give a broad prophecy claiming that God told me it would happen, and the chances of it happening at some point in the future are very good, then say God is real because it happened?
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 02:35 AM on February 24, 2008 | IP
    
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